Post Disengagement
A brief history
SD lived with us until Sept 24. I'm the only father she has known. There is me, my wife, SD, and my wife and I have 2 sons that we are the biological parents of.
SD was fine until she got into a new relationship when her behaviour changed. We initially thought it was her GF that was the issue because SD told us she was controlling. SD told us a lot of lies that we're exposed when we spoke to GF.
SD became more and more distant from me and our relationship has completely broken down. We have no contact at all.
I've done my best to make myself busy when my wife wants to see SD at our home but that's become harder to do. 2 Saturdays ago SD came round when I was in and said hello to everyone by name except me and said goodbye to everyone by name except me.
It was our youngest sons birthday on Tuesday and SD refused to come round because I was home. She wants to have a party for him at her home without me. I've told my wife there won't be a celebration of my sons birthday where I am excluded. If SD doesn't want to attend because I am there it's her who suffers the exclusion. I won't be excluded.
I know my wife is in a difficult situation but I feel strongly that I won't be excluded because SD has cut me out of her life. I feel that she should be the one who suffers the consequences of that decision.
I don't want my sons to suffer either but I refuse to normalise this idea that I can be excluded. I've also told my wife that I will no longer tolerate rude behaviour if SD come to our home. She will now be told and challenged if she enters my home and is rude to me.
I would like some advice and I hope you can give me some insight. Am I being a massive prick and am I being unfair expecting my wife to support me?
What do you think caused the
What do you think caused the breakdown in your relationship with your SD?
By all accounts, she doesn't appear to have an active bio father (maybe never knew him).. and you have been in that role since she was an infant.. and things were going "ok" until the GF.
Did you and your wife know she was gay before that and do you think she senses or knows you don't approve of that kind of relationship. (not saying you don't.. but does she think you don't?)
She still seems to have a relationship with everyone "but" you... so what were your "dust ups" about? Was she dealing with any substance abuse issues? Was it her orientation that was an issue.. or was it just that she wasn't fully open about the nature of her relationship?
I would probably suggest that counseling with you and your wife and SD might be in order.. to see if you can figure out where the rift came in.. and to see if it can be healed.
It seems a bit tragic to throw away a lifetime of raising her over a fairly recent set of events..
Her sexuality was never an
Her sexuality was never an issue.
She stayed at home to attend university and we paid for her and didn't charge her any rent while she was doing so. In her final year she got into a new relationship and her behaviour completely changed. She wasn't paying attention to her studies and she went from being a family orientated person to secluding herself from her family.
She told a lot of lies about who her GF was, suggesting she was controlling and manipulative. The relationship between all of us went sour. My wife and I told her we wouldn't continue to support her financially for her to throw her education away. She made out like the GF was the one who was demanding she abandoned her education.
We found out through the GF she was lying all the time. It turned out that SD was just so madly in love she was willing to throw it all away for new GF despite new GF being supportive. She just told the lies so she could spend more time with her.
My wife is refusing to see how bad that is and how much it's hurt me. SD has now cut me out of her life completely because I won't just accept an insincere "I'm sorry" then no behaviour change. I expect to see SD show she is sorry by changing her behaviour.
SD has since cut me out of her life completely. It's still very hurtful but my view is she is the one who caused the issues, she is the one carrying them on so she should be the one who pays the price.
Truth Teller
You wrote:
My wife is refusing to see how bad that is and how much it's hurt me. SD has now cut me out of her life completely because I won't just accept an insincere "I'm sorry" then no behaviour change. I expect to see SD show she is sorry by changing her behaviour.
A bio-parent wears what I call rose-colored glasses, making them the last to see the red flags—while everyone else, especially the stepparents, are already sprinting for the exits, abandoning a sinking ship that’s been torpedoed and set ablaze.
Meanwhile, the bio-parent stumbles through the inferno, flailing their arms in disbelief, shouting, “What? What’s happening? I never saw this coming!”
All those years the skids were here, all the damned time, I had to spell it out for fool-DH: “DH, this ship has been torpedoed by BM—we need to evacuate.” But did he listen? No. He just kept bailing water, convinced he could patch the holes while the whole thing was sinking right under us.
Oh yes, you’re the truth-teller. The one who points out that the Empress-SD is butt-ass naked while the rest of the clan marvels at her fine clothing. That’s your real problem.
If only you’d drink the Kool-Aid, bow at the altar of SD, and keep forking over tuition money without question—you might just earn her royal approval. But since you refuse to play along? Well, that makes you the villain.
The problem is owned by those who actually have it.
Oh yes, you’re the truth-teller. The one who points out that the Empress-SD is butt-ass naked while the rest of the clan marvels at her fine clothing. That’s your real problem.
Definitely Oh yes. Ostrich Syndrome or The Emperor's New Close Virus. My IL clan has this as an inescapable genetic condition for everyone except my bride and my Skid. FIL had it in spades. MIL has it, BIL1 has it, BIL1 has it, SIL has it, and it looks like all of their kids have it at an even more developed level.
I too am the Truth Teller. This is like tossing a turd in a punch bowl for those drinking the toxic brew, but.... when the Ostrich Syndrome or TENC-virus flare ups get toxic, the treatment is to call it out. IMHO anyway. DW and SS don't actively suffer from these conditions but they do have a higher level of tolerance for them than I have. My DW is a half sib to the others (MIL's first DH was killed in a car accident a few days before MIL found our she was pregnant with DW), so aparantly this combined with leaving SpermLand and never returning to live when SS was a baby built up some immunity to the OS and TENC-virus bullshit in them.
The entertaining thing is that when the flare ups are high during a gathering, everyone is very twitchy and giving me the side eye to see if I am going to call it out. Any time I take a breath to speak, the cringe factor in the room goes through the roof. That alone tends to change the commitment of whoever is having the major flare up to continue to perpetrate the bullshit. Over the years I have been an Outlaw in my IL clan, their cognizance of their crap has grown stronger. For some reason they still seem to take some pride in the bullshit, but... their commitment to stand on it is far less than my commitment to call it out when it is getting out of hand.
Lost
Im at a loss as to how to navigate it. My wife simply won't see it. As far as she is concerned SD hasn't done anything wrong and she has forgotten all the lies she told.
Im trying to not let it impact my marriage for my boys but it's really hard and I'm not sure how I even begin to deal with all that.
Sometimes I just feel lost.
Hard Solutions
You have a DW problem. Usually, when a grown-ass skid abuses their SP, its a spouse problem.
You need to step back from your SD and let your DW handle the situation—this is her problem to manage, not yours.
More importantly, separate your finances. The person who controls the money ultimately controls the household shenanigans. If your DW refuses to support you as her husband and continually prioritizes SD over you, then let’s be honest—she’s more committed to SD than to your marriage. At that point, what you have isn’t a partnership; it’s a broken arrangement.
Focus on your boys. And if the moment arises naturally, you might casually remind your DW how damaging it is for children to live in a divided home. After all, she’s been through a divorce before—how did that work out for her the first time?
Ask yourself, so she can hear—does my DW want a second divorce?
But don’t make it a threat. The reality is, your DW is the problem. That’s why SD is treating you this way—because DW allows it and promotes.
Instead of wasting energy on fixing what they refuse to change, focus on your solutions. Build a life separate from them with your boys. Make your happiness and peace a priority.
Many stepmothers here have started to disengage and step back, and you know what? Their clueless DHs finally got the hint—at least, the smarter ones did. Some men need to feel the absence of effort before they realize how much was being done for them. If stepping back is what it takes to wake him up, then so be it.
That might be something you will have to do, too.
If you realize that you're only considered a "family member" when money is involved—where "family member" really means Stepdaddy ATM—then it’s time to take a hard look at your situation. Ask yourself: Are you valued for who you are, or just for what you provide? Because if it’s the latter, you’ve got some serious thinking to do.
I know that "orientation" can be a tense evolution for
I know that "orientation" can be a tense evolution for individuals and families. For us, it was not tense from a family perspective other than my bride and I worrying about out kid's teen+ proclivities to not have close intimate relationships. He always expressed that he wanted what his mom and I have had and what his uncle and aunt (my brother and my SIL), and his GP's (my parents) have. But he did not seem to engage.
He was very popular with the young ladies in HS, though was eternally teased by all of them including his several very close female friends about not having any sex drive at all. He literally had young women offering him intimacy in droves. Particularly the young women in HS band where he was apparently considered the ultimate fruit ripe for plucking by the artsy young women.
He came out to his mom and me when he was 22. His mom was entirely surprised, I was not. I had long suspected that was likely the case with some inklings going back to fairly young ages and an event/discussion we had when was 17 that he begged me not to share with his mom. I honored that request. The turd of a kid threw me under the bus with his mom when he came out. Another story for another time.
Though he always was enamored with beautiful young women all the way back to Pre-K. There were several beautiful girl children that he would point out to his mom and me with a shy "She's so pretty." Invariably that would come to an end with him being very disappointed when "She talked and does not understand what I was talking about."
After he came out, he had a lot of maturing to do as he never did much heart felt dating. He went on dates with a lot of friends, but none that were romantic evolution steps.
It has been a challenging progression for him since coming out 10 years and one month-ish ago. No judgment, but he is regularly frustrated by the highly developed as he calls it "hook up" culture in the gay community. Not something he is interested in. He wants the full meal deal romantic, deep, intense, love story. I have tried to guide him to an understanding that history, life experiences, and personal development is a foundational and critical part of that. He remains frustrated.
His mom and I are frustrated for him, and at some level frustrated with him. He seems to miss the growth element that that type of relationship requires. Growth individually and together with a partner. When he gets disappointed at all, he tends to cut and run.
He did distance himself from us and the rest of the family for a couple of years while he was navigating the early stages of his epiphany at 18 and coming out to his mom and I at 22. His career is not one that lends itself to living near us or any other family as he is assigned where the Military determines he is needed. We do talk and catch up regularly but not frequently.
I am the one who is direct with him and interestingly, I am the one that he confides in on the more difficult topics.
I hope that the OP's SD has people she can confide in and who will be with her on her journey.
Sexuality
Her sexuality has never been an issue for us.
I'm a fairly enlightened person in that regard. As long as she was safe and happy I didn't care who she was with.
She spent the year lying to us that her GF was controlling and manipulative. That's what caused the issues. We've never been the same since
It can tear a family up when someone goes rogue.
My IL clan has repeated instances of this. In their case it is BIL1's bovin bride who is the most frequent instigator. Like you are in your situation, I am the one with zero tolerance for the crap. Fortunately my DW recognizes the situation and will have my back when I call it out. We did nor have quite this struggle with SS during his launching to adulthood years. But, we also did not tolerate any bullshit from him. We still don't.
I hope that you and your bride can give your SKidult SD some clarity and that she reverses her current course and rejoins your family in a positive way. I am frustrated for you in how SD is playing her bullshit in a way that it involves your younger children.
Stepdad2024 - We have some things in common.
I too am a StepDad. I am the only full time dad my SS-32 ever has known. Though he has always known the Spermidiot and the associated shallow and polluted end of his gene pool, they are fortunately long in his past.
I applaud that you will not tolerate your SD trying to disrupt your family. And noyou are not a prick nor are you being unfair demanding that your wife support you. That is the foundation of the life of adventure and love for the ages that my bride of 30 years have built. Not always without tension, or disagreement btw. But, your bride has to have your back on this and if that means allowing your SD to suffer and be isolated from you, your wife, and your boys as a consequence of her choices, then so be it and make sure she suffers escalating consequences for her choice to deviate from the standards of behavior and standards of performance you demand of her. Your bride, marriage, family, and your minor kids trump a Kidult regardless of what flavor of kidult it may be.
I met my bride when her son was 15mos old. We married the week before he turned 2yo. He is an only for his mom and me. He asked me to adopt him when he was 22yo. We made that happen. He came out to his mom and me when he was 20yo. Though we did not have the level of drama to deal with with him as you have had to deal with.
I would recommend a direct approach with SD including some clear messages. You have her back as her dad, she is part of the family whether she likes it or not, you and her mom are a team and she will respect you both, she will not be tolerated to disrupt the family or detract from her younger brothers' turn at their ages, and her crap ends immediately or she will experience immediate escalating abject misery inducing consequences. How she responds and corrects if of course up to her. But you and her mom have to be aligned and SD needs to see that alignment and understand that she will not destroy you, the marriage, her brothers or the family.
Zero tolerance is a requirement when addressing SKidult drama even while having their back and being there for them.
Take care of you and maintain your confidence, and your expectations of your daughter.
IMHO and experience of course.
Rags, I think you got
Rags, I think you got yourself a friend!
Finally!
It does not sound like you
It does not sound like you are a massive prick at all. Especially since you had a role in raising SD, can you confront her when she is around you and refuses to acknowledge your presence? What do you think would happen? Can you confront her about her ridiculous idea of the birthday celebration without you?
What is your wife saying about all of this? The situation sounds really odd--like your SD's personality changed once she entered this relationship.
More to the story....
You wrote:
SD was fine until she got into a new relationship, when her behavior changed. We initially thought it was her GF that was the issue because SD told us she was controlling. SD told us a lot of lies that we're exposed when we spoke to GF.
From what I’ve seen, women tend to gravitate toward like-minded females, almost as if they instinctively “recruit” those who reflect their own values and behaviors. Men, on the other hand, can form friendships across a wider spectrum of personalities.
My DH used to insist that his ex-wife had been “turned” by her friends, blaming their influence for her sudden interest in partying and cheating. But I had to set him straight—No, DH, she wasn’t ‘turned.’ She wasn’t brainwashed into drinking and running around. She wanted this. It was always in her. Her friends didn’t change her; they just gave her the space to be exactly who she had always been. Could this be the case for your SD, too?
You wrote:
2 Saturdays ago SD came round when I was in and said hello to everyone by name except me and said goodbye to everyone by name except me.
Besides being a liar (red flag), your SD isn’t just being thoughtless—this is passive-aggressive behavior, a deliberate shunning tactic meant to make you feel like an outsider. It’s intentional.
She’s carrying anger, and you’ve become the target.
But why?
Is she trying to drive a wedge between you and her mother?
Or is there something deeper at play—possibly unresolved issues, even signs of a personality disorder like BPD? Has she always been spiteful? But you haven’t noticed? This new woman could be your SD's, "favorite person" (FP) is a person with whom someone with borderline personality disorder (BPD) has an intense attachment. FPs are often family members, romantic partners, or close friends. Their "sacred cows" favorite ‘friends’ are untouchable—off-limits to criticism, no matter how valid. If a BPD perceives that you're questioning or criticizing something they hold sacred, they won’t just defend it; they’ll go on the offensive, determined to tear you down in the process, e.g., destroy your marriage with her mother. Pit her Bio-mommy against you?
People with BPD have a way of twisting reality, deflecting accountability, (hint: lying) and rewriting events to suit their narrative (hint: lying) —especially if they also have traits of NPD. More than half of BPDs also have NPD. Just saying.
Suppose you brought up her academic failures, in her mind. In that case, she might distort it into something entirely unrelated, like, "Stepdaddy don’t like gay people" or "Steppdaddy don’t approve of my girlfriend." It’s not about logic (SD laps in her studies and hence is failing college) and problem-solving (solution, spend more time studying and less socializing)—it’s about shifting blame onto you and avoiding responsibility.
Who was more vocal about her failure—you or her BM? Keep in mind that many stepkids see their stepparent as an outsider, someone who has no right to "parent" them. In her eyes, it’s unforgivable that you, the outsider, would dare to hold her accountable. Especially if she’s been conditioned to see your role as nothing more than an ATM. Again - just saying.
A key success factor in making effective change is that sacred
A key success factor in making effective change is that sacred cows make the best burgers. In other words, things that are generally deemed as untouchable are exactly the things that need change the most or need to be abandoned.
I am not one to accept the presence of the proverbial sacred cow if it is being leveraged for some nefarious or manipulative purpose. So grind that bovine up, run it across the grill, and chow down while enjoying the squirm of the one who was hiding behind it.
This is a great book. I highly recommend it.
Sacred Cows Make the Best Burgers : Developing Change-Ready People and Organizations
Robert Kriegel with David Brandt
Im in Camp Disengagement
Disengage from your SD. Back way off, but absolutely do not tolerate the shunning. From your post and the comments, you are probably grieving the loss of the relationship a bit. I agree with the others - your DW is the main problem. She is purposely ignoring all the facts that you poured $$ into SD's education and she cr@pped all over it and is trying to cr@p all over you.
Do not allow this to continue. If you can, sit her down and calmly explain where you are at. Perhaps separating the finances will be the way to go, but really try communicating with DW. You need to be a united front, a team. SD is attacking that.
Its ok to have a relationship without you involved. Not at your home. Somewhere else. Put your energy into your bios, not SD. She has not earned that.
Hard
It all feels very hard right now.
I know I need to cut her out of my life and forget but she has been my daughter.
I'm letting it get in the way of my marriage and I'm finding it hard to stop myself from arguing with my wife. I don't want to break up but this feels like a horrible situation with no exit.