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To Go Back to Court or Not...?

Dogmom1321's picture

About a month ago BM moved about 30 minutes away. Different town/county. Just far enough that she "can't" get SD to school in the mornings. No, she didn't ask for court's permission before the move. However, there wasn't anything about moving in their last CO. Zero guidance. 

Well, with COVID, we have been either full-remote learning or in school 2 days a week. This has worked out so far and hasn't affected 50/50 custody. SD starts back to school FULL TIME next week. I have a feeling SD will be living with us during the weekdays now and only going to BMs on the weekends, all because she chose to move in with the new boyfriend. 

Even though DH has final decision for education, BM has asked in the last month "Can SD just move up here with me and go to middle school up here? You know, since you have a baby on the way and stuff too. I just don't think you can handle both." *roll eyes*  DH basically told her no. Not without a fight at least. 

I guess my question is, should DH even bother putting up "a fight" in court? Should he try to work some sort of agreement out with BM outside of court? If SD had it her way, she would 100% pick to live with BM. I'm not sure how much a pre-teen would have a say/weigh in court. DH doesn't plan on making the "first move" for court. 

BM is not MOTY on paper by any means. She constantly moves in with new boyfriends and SD has poor attendace on her "time." However, she has been the master manipulator for judges in the past, crying crocodile tears that "she's trying her best and making a good faith effort to becoming a better mom." *eyeroll* 

Thoughts on what would be the best "move" for DH? Advice needed!


Sidenote: I haven't voiced ALL of this to DH, but I honestly feel if SD will be "happier" living with BM, then he should let her. As much as that probably hurts him. Maybe give her some sort of conditions like, if you keep your grades above ____. I feel like DH battling BM over a SD that doesn't want to live here anyway, will only further their strained relationship and cause resentment from her. DH has said "I know, I'm the bad guy in SDs eyes, but she will realize some day that I'm doing what's best." I just don't know if I agree with that last part. I've just been sitting back and watching this all unfold like :-O


Rags's picture

IMHO it comes down to a choice between what is easiest and what is best for SD.   If i were your DH, I would tell BM "see you in court" where I would highlight every one of BM's move for sex relationships with her series of BFs of the month, I would stick BM withy EWE visitation and I would nail her ass for a pile of CS... and make damned sure my daughter was as insulated as possible from her idiot BM's serial breeding/whoring bullshit.

Just my thoughts of course.

Dogmom1321's picture

Yes, the "flavor of the week" is exhuasting! I wasn't sure if a judge would take that as "DH is bashing/alienating BM because of her dating choices." 

Fingers crossed they break up in the summer and don't even have to worry about BM taking DH back to court! Custody battles are just so emotionally draining and EXHAUSTING! I just REALLY don't want to go through that again. We already did it back in 2018. DH also did it in 2013 when they got divorced. 

bananaseedo's picture

Rags, she has every right to date whomever/whenever she wants and judges aren't going to do much,  Why? Because, unless the SD is in danger, then it's nobody's damn business if she has several partners.  Most judges are well aware of that.  THat's just one thing where I again find your response just misogynistic.  I don't slut shame.  Women have as much right to date as men do...we never call men whores.  Slut-shaming is more disgusting IMO then her dating different men.  It's obvious you have extreme issues with women owning their sexuality.

And also I hate the constant term breeding- leave that for your no bio kids pages please.  It's pretty disgusting as well and disrespectful to the hundreds of steps who are also parents.  

Would it be better if she shielded her kids from her dating life? Sure.  We don't really know much if she does or not though.  Either way, even if not 'perfect' I refuse to slut-shame.  Maybe SD grows up to not feel shame for her dating life and realizing it's OK to date and keep dating until you find your match, maybe she'll learn to embrace her own sexuality, with 1 partner or 10.  Hopefully she grows up to confront misogynist pigs and assure them they are a dying breed themselves and are certainly NOT the holders of morality and they don't define her.   There is always a line, and if these revolving guys are brining some kind of danger to SD for abuse, that's different.  But just because BM dates a lot does not make her a bad person or bad mother.

As to what I would do?  Well from a stepmoms view, I say let her go with BM and worry about my own kids since she offered.  What your dh will do?  I'd leave it entirely up to him-any opinion you give COULD bite you in the arse later, kwim?  

Rags's picture

I do not limit my ire to characterless women. If anything, I am far less tolerant for characterless men than characterless women.  Though the relative lack of men on STalk makes most of the conversation fodder BM or the DH's X related rather than XH related.  My comments on characterless DH's are voluminous. I am an equal opportunity detester of characterless people.

No, I am not a misogynist.  Far from it. I am extremely pro woman.  What I am is a realist/pragmatist and have no problem addressing behaviors and character issues. Which... have no gender relationship and are individual choices.

I am blessed to have amazing women in my life.  Mom, wife, aunt, niece, friends, etc....  All confident and brilliant women of character.

I do not slut shame. I call toxic idiots on their choices.  I hammer the Spermidiot and his man whore ways over, and over, and over again and have for years. I will continue to highlight the impact of his lack of character on his 4 all out of wedlock children by three different baby mamas and his penchant for perpetrating statutory rape on young girls. His man whore career has contributed significantly to the destruction of the lives of  three of his 4 children.  Parental character matters.  Just look at the crap so many SKids described in this community have experienced and turned out to have behavioral failures due to the examples they have witnessed from one, the other, or both of their bio parents.

I am an equal opportunity detester of lack of character.  It is a trigger for me because I lived the misery of choosing a cavern crotched adulterous whore as my first wife. I did not know it at the time.  But it is a choice I made.  I learned from that poor choice and I have avoided repeating that mistake. 

I applaud embracing one's sexuality in a healthy manner.  However, for those with children, how they do that matters and has implications far beyond their own lives.  Kids observe, are smart, and emulate the example of their parents.  Parading an endless line of lovers in front of children is a key characteristic of a failed parent.  I would premise that those who have the example of parents in a committed, passionate, and respectful adult relationship have far less baggage and struggle far less with their own relationships, behavioral issues, and life performance issues than those who have a serially partnered parent who is focused on instant gratification and what feels good at the moment.

So, yes, I call adulterous characterless POS people on their choices.  No kid should be saddled with a parent who sets that kind of example.

I celebrate people who explore their sexuality in a healthy way.  I certainly have throughout my life.  Not always with people who are life partner material.  We all learn. Fortunately those who don't learn and who saddle their children with the baggage of their crappy choices are a relative few.

If you take exception to my thoughts and comments, avoid posts under my name. 

It is pretty simple.

As for what I would do?  Add the facts of this BM's relatioship crap to the facts and smack her with them in court.

My Skid is important to me because initially his mom is important to me. I could have stayed out of raising him, I could have either ignored or facilitated the negative influence of the shallow and polluted end of his gene pool (the SpermClan) on my Skid.  I soon realized that my Skid is MY Skid, he is important to me because he is important to me even outside of the relationship his mom and I share and I wanted what was best for him.  Continuous and unregulated exposure to the man whore Spermidiot and his serially out of wedlock breeding bullshit is a negative influence on my SS and on his three younger half sibs by two other baby mamas.  His mom and I made mitigating as much of the toxic crap perpetrated by the Spermidiot and the SpermClan while modeling a passionate, healthy, respectful and committed adult relationships and family experience for SS as a juxtaposition to the toxic adulterous example from the SpermClan side of his family experience a focus in our adult life choices.  We put the Spermidiot in front of a judge as often as necessary to protect my SS from his crap.  His parade of flavor of the month partners received a lot of interest from the Judge and the post ruling Spermidiot ass chewing by the Judges was always satisfying.  A Judge is limited in what they can do, but Judges are people and can certainly give a characterless POS parent, man or woman, a piece of their mind.  Interestingly our Judges always waited until the end of the hearing to climb up the Spermidiot's ass after all of the friends and family members on both sides had been allowed back in the court room to hear the ruling and the Judge's ass chewing of the Spermidiot.  Their attorney always presented a motion for exclusion of witnesses from the courtroom to keep the facts from the Spermidiot's family, children, friends, etc.....  I found that every Judge we had did this same thing to be very interesting.  A couple of Judges applauded my bride for setting a strong example for her son and for not being defined by her past as a young single teen mom after they had chewed the Spermidiot's ass.

Dance 4

Interestingly, my SS is not a man whore.  If anything his sensitivity to adultery and characterless POS people has limited his relationships in adolescence, his teens, and now as an adult.  He tends to commit early, love hard, and is shaken to the core when his chosen partner proves themselves to be of deficient character.   He is maturing well, performing far beyond the entire history of the SpermClan, and will tolerate no bullshit from people he dates.  His progression of partners have grown more mature, of greater intellect, and ever improving character.  SS's adult relationship experiences have grown him into a confident partner who will not tolerate anything less from those he dates.  SS gives his mom and I,  my parents, and my brother and his wife crap for setting the relationship bar so high.  He thrived growing up within a framework of respectful loving adult relationships.  He will tolerate nothing less for himself.  He has standards.

The BM in this case has apparently not grown either sexually or as an adult.  Why would the caring quality parent and their mate abandon this Skid to the mother so deficient in character?

I wouldn't.


bananaseedo's picture

I can see your point about parading people in/out of the kids lives....that said, plenty of single parents keep their relationships/hook-ups or dating lives away from their kids -and even if they have kids I see nothing wrong with that.  I personally married very young-he was abusive.  I divorced him when my sons were 2 and 4.  I dated a LOT then and had a really good time doing so.  That said they only met one other guy besides now DH and we were serious.  I kept my private life private and away from little eyes.   On the other hand BM had a revolving door or partners both men and women and every one of them was a relationship-like meet day 1, move in together a few days later, last a few months, rinse repeat.  Of course that does damage.  At the same time BM had every right to live her adult life as she saw fit.  And though I had plenty horrible things to say about her-her sex life was none of my business and I don't slut-shame period- regardless of their parental status.  That's the difference though- I can find them morally bankrupt for a million reasons-but calling them a whore because they enjoy sex with different partners should not be a part of it.

When we know better, we do better.  There were probably times when I was younger that culture misogyny influenced me-hence you have so many women shaming women I got older I learned where I was wrong.  At some point when confronted with our own deficiencies -we can admit and try to become a better person or get more stuck in our ways.  I think what gets to me about you is you always are so high up on your horse and looking/talking down at anyone you deem inferior to you.   It's tough to talk to this kind of person honestly.   Everyone has their faults, some 'sins' are just more visible then others.  You are far from perfect yourself and you know it, so why keep lamblasting everyone else as horrid POS's ?     

Rags's picture

I believe that you are classifying slut-shaming inaccurately.  I have no issue with anyone who enjoys sex and has healthy intimate relationships.  Your description fo your own journey is a good example of growing as an adult, experiencing healthy sexual/intimate relationships and protecting your children appropriately.

I think that it becomes an issue when it is not managed and the serially intimate adult esposes their children to an unhealthy example and pollutes those children with poor decisions and exposure to inappropriate behaviors.

My parents have always been very passionate with each other.   As kids we knew that mom and dad were very into each other, we knew to respect mom and dad's alone time, and they discussed relationships and intimacy with us as we progressed into and through adolescence into your adulthood and beyond.  

I believe that quality parents owe their kids a healthy example of adult intimacy in relationships.  The problem arrises when a parent fails to set a healthy example.  Sexual frequency, enjoying sex, number of partners, etc.... are not a problem when a parent manages a child's exposure to these things as the kid grows up.

Your experience with an abusive partner is sad to me. That you moved on, experienced healthy adult relationships, and landed well through your adult relationships experience to be applauned.

I had my version of this with my XW.  No physical abuse, but incredible emotional abuse and maniplation.  Her sexual daliances where what I took exception to.  Had she kept it within the confines of our marriage, I would have been fine with it. But... she was a whore. She whored around on me, she whored around on the guy she left me for, and last I heard she was married for a 3rd time to someone she had cheated on her second husband with.  She has three kids. All out of wedlock. The eldest and youngest she conceived while cheating on a husband. Had we not been married, I would have had no issue with her dating other people.  We both did for the first 6mos of our dating relationship.  But... once we committed, I expected her to be faithful.  That did not happen.

You are absolutely correct. I am not perfect.  I do not talk down to anyone who does not prove themselves to be deficient.  I just call those who behave as a POS what they demonstrate themselves to be.

By the way, I have never lambasted anyone on STalk. I do lambast the people that many STalkers are here to complain and vent about. Why does that bother you.  This is not a love fest site where members blindly worship their loving mates and put their darling little SKids on a pedistal.  There are communities for that.

Realith for some SParents and for many in blended family situations is that their mate has baggage that their mate fails to effectively deal with, crappy kid behavior is not dealt with effectively, and many SParents, whether they bring their own progeny to the blended family or not, struggle in dealing with an idiot mate and ill behaved SKids.  I just put the pointer on the behaviors that are at issue and recommend direct assertive solutions.  In some cases I ask why the venting SParent continues to tolerate the crap.  In others I point out that pulling the plug may be necessary.

What I have never understood is why anyone would tolerate a toxic mate or ill behaved children.

Insensitive or not, a POS is a POS.  They can change, but few do.  Why should good people tolerate that in their lives?  As I have asked before, why would you defend people like that?

IDontCare3117's picture

If you really want to talk about character .... try not using "failed breeding experiments" to describe children who had no say in how thet came into this world, "failed first families", "failed [fill in the blank]."  Your own wife was a teenage mother with an out of wedlock child,.  At any point in your SS's life would you call him a "failed breeding experiment"?  If not, refrain from using the term to describe other children.  

Oh, and having been and out of courtrooms over many years because of my career, family court judges aren't going to spend the time lecturing a parent over their dating choices unless a child is being abused by the parent's girlfriend or boyfriend.  Judges simply don't have the time for that.  

Rags's picture

You know... facts.  SKids are the product of failed families, with the exception of the relative few who have lost a parent.

It is not about the child having a say in how they came into the world. It is about the inappropriate behaviors that so many ill behaved kids choose.  Regardless of their family history, their behavioral choices are their own.

Yes, my incredible bride was a single teen mom.  She had SS-28 when she was 16.  The POS SpermIdiot was 23 and should have already been in prison for statutory rape before he targeted and knocked up the amazing young woman who would become my wife of 26+ years and counting.  She went on to graduate with her HS class with honors rather than buckle to the school districts pressure to go to the Teen Mom education center.  She went on to a dual major BS with honors, an MBA with honors and to have a very successful career as a CPA.  She did not have a series of out of wedlock pregnancies. She learned, she adjusted, and she succeeded.  I applaud her tenacity and the example she set for her son.

The SpermIdiot, Mr. Serial Statutory rapist pot head gang banger wannabe with 4 out of wedlock children by 3 different baby mamas (two were underage when he knocked them up when he was well into his 20s) is a fully proven POS.  

No, my SS is not a failed breeding experiment. First because his mom and the SpermIdiot were never a family.  Though mostly because his mom parented him with standards of behavior and performance and committed successfully to setting a strong example for him.   If he had been an ill behaved shit, then I would categorize him as I have categorized any number of ill behaved failed breeding experiments.  Their foundation story is not  the kids fault, but their choices certainly can keep them in a negative category worthy of any number of colorful descriptors of their demonstrated behaviors.  Failed parents continue to fail their children if they do not establish and enforce clear standards of behavior and performance.

Your career experience not withstanding, I have witnessed a number of Judges  lecture people in court.  Three times in court actions that I was a direct participant in.  Twice the SpermIdiot was the target of the Judge's lecture. One of those lectures was primarily about his relationship choices and setting a better example for his children.  The other was about his ridiculous appearance in court and how if he wanted to be taken seriously he needed to look like someone to taken seriously.  Once my XW was the target of the lecture. 

It surprises me that you have never witnessed a Judge lecture a person in court with your career experience.

notarelative's picture

I agree with your DH. As a parent, my concern is that my child ends up as a functioning adult. Yes, SD would probably pick the home where she can be late for school, miss school, not have to do homework. But, that is not going to help her adult. If I were your DH, I'd use my educational decision making and keep my child in the same district. Conditions such as if you keep your grades up, generally don't work. Once SD makes the move to the new district, DH loses, maybe not on paper but in reality, his educational decision making.

Dogmom1321's picture

When DH has pulled the "educational decision card" in the past, BM explodes calling him everything under the sun. Controlling, making a power play, you name it. But if it's warranted I guess he shouldn't care what BM calls him. 

Rags's picture

Not only should DH not care about what BM says or thinks, he knows how she is going to react so he needs to play her hard, like the predictable cheap card that she is.

And have fun doing it.


ESMOD's picture

I think the issue is fairly simple and BM should be presented with the choice.

1.  We keep 50/50 and you figure out how to get SD to school on your time

2.  DH to get full custody with EOWE or EWE for BM during the school year.  BM can have 100% of school breaks except for Christmas Day every other year and a week in the summer for vacation trip potential.

Maybe that keeps the days close enough that neither party would seek CS.

If she wants to "bring the fight" to court.. your DH should do what Rags said.. highlight her frequent moves.. and say that theoretically, dad has no problem with BM moving as long as 50/50 custody can be maintained and SD has continuity with her education becaus that is best for SD.  However, since BM has now moved to a place where she claims she can no longer meet her obligation to get SD to school in the current district... and since there is no guarantee that THIS move will be permanent or LT.. that the best interest for SD is to be with dad basically FT during the school week.. and arrange visitation around those parameters.

bananaseedo's picture

THis is a good idea, solid and leaving the slut-shaming out of it.  I would not at ALL bring up her moms relationships, it's not his business honestly and a judge won't care (and shouldn't).   Have you guysy discussed together and agreed it's ok for her to live with you full time during school year before even considering going to court? 


Survivingstephell's picture

If SD moves back in with BM what kind of drama will ensue?  Do you want that drama?  Do you want a non launchable SD on your hands?   I'd write it all down in a letter to BM pointing out all the facts and failures on BM's part, send to her and if she's still wants to go to court, you will have at least a record of SD failures to show the court.  

tog redux's picture

If DH is the better parent, he should try to make an agreement with BM that he keeps her during the week and BM gets every other weekend (or every, if that's what you two want) - keep it out of court if you can. 10-year-olds don't decide where they live, they won't generally choose what's best for them.

Dogmom1321's picture

I definitely think he is. Apparently BM has already told SD "you need to decide who you want to live with." PASing to the max. Making SD think she has final say and also creating resentment if it doesn't happen. 

lieutenant_dad's picture

Then DH needs to counter that with SD, letting her know that that's not how it works, and while her opinion is important, her education and stability will outweigh what she wants. He can also explain that if she wants more time with BM that he and BM can facilitate that so her "fun time" is with BM (e.g. breaks).