DH saying BM Created this mess let her fix it. Is DH correct??
SD14 has gotten totally out of control the last few months. SEE OLD POST. SD14 refuses to not only NOT go to school but refuses to do any school work. When pushed SD14 throws a temper tantrum Threatens to "kill people" or "her self". This has basically become SD14 MO for anything she does not want to do. Yes SD14 sees a therapist and the therapist knows all this. The therapist has told BM to call 911 if SD says these things but BM refuses saying it would be to "Traumatic" for SD14. Well now SD14 refuses to go to the dentist. BM has asked DH to take SD14(since BM can't) but DH refuses. Why? Because SD14 is this way(total spoiled brat) because BM refuses to give SD14 any Consequences for refusing to go to school or do school work.
DH did not support SD14 going full remote for school as he knew it would be a mess but BM allowed it anyway. DH wanted SD14 to have Consequences for her refusing to do school work but BM would not support this. So now DH Attitude is BM Created this mess so she has to fix it not DH. Is DH handling this correctly by basically just sitting back watching this train wreck just getting worse and worse?
IMHO this could should be
IMHO this kid should be confronted with such a state of escalating abject misery that she would break down into a quivering slobbering mess at the very thought of missing school or not finishing even one assignment.
Any threat of self harm or murder should have this kid hog tied, straight jacketed, and frog marched out the front door into the padded van with bars on the windows for a bumpy ride to the hell on Earth treatment farm for violent psychotics.
Coddling oriented parenting or free range parenting creates only coddled failure to launch non performing kids who manipulate which is exactly what this kid is doing with the suicide threats and murder threats.
Have her hauled off each and ever time she pulls this crap and let her know that until she grows up she will live an abject life of misery unless she never misses a school day or an assignment.
Military school would have this kid sharp, academically successful, behaviorally compliant, and a lean mean performance machine in 6 weeks flat. Young cadet leaders chew up and spit out kids like this in short order.
To answer your question, what kind of father abandons their kid to be the victim of that father's crappy choice of mother for his children. His abandonment of this kid to the BM is complete and total parental failure IMHO. He should be doing anything and everything possible to hammer this kid into behavioral and performance submission rather than shrugging off her crap as BM's problem.
IMHO of course.
So what does he imagine is
So what does he imagine is going to happen? That one day she'll get up and magically realize what a turd she's been, apologize to everyone and skip off happily to school?
No he’s hoping it will totally back fire on BM
Right now BM has full legal custody so DH has no say in these things. DH is hoping to just sit back an watch this train wreck happen. If SD keeps refusing to do things school, dr appointments, dentist Eventually either BM won't be able to take it anymore and give custody to DH or CPS will step in. Once this happens DH will come down on SD like the hand of god and not have to worry about BM coming after him or SD Threatening to never come over again if DH Punishes her. This is the goal
My fear would be that if he
My fear would be that if he waits until that point, his daughter may be so completely out of control that she'd be beyond help. Imagine how absolutely hellish your life could be with her in your home 100% of the time under those circumstances.
It depends on what your DH's
It depends on what your DH's goals are. If he's trying to make his life easy in the short term, then the path he's on is fine. If he's trying to raise a decent, productive member of society who properly launches when she hits adulthood, then his approach is not going to work. Ideally, he should agree to take her to the dentist, and if she threatens to kill herself or others, he should do as the therapist says and call 911. I would think a trip or two to the psych ward will put a stop to empty threats, and will be all for the good if they're not empty threats. One of this girl's parents needs to step up and actually parent her, or get her more help than she's currently receiving. What's the custody split between BM and your DH?
His goals are to get full custody of SD14
Right now DH has no legal say over SD14. BM is this controlling B@tch who refuses to include DH in any Decision making. Now that she's allowed SD to call the shots BM can't get her to do anything. If BM who has SD most of the time and refuses to punish SD for anything it's near impossible for DH to Reinforce anything. I should mention SD LIES really bad and has said DH has hit/yelled at her when DH did not. BM is just looking for a reason to throw DH in jail and I can totally see SD saying DH touched her Inappropriately if DH pissed her off. So DH goals are to just sit back and let BM did her own grave. He is hoping SD will get so out of control that BM just gives up and gives DH custody or it gets so bad CPS/family court steps in and gives DH custody. Then DH can come down on SD like the hand of god without fearing SD will lie and get him into trouble. I mean who will believe SD if CPS has to step in or BM just can't handle SD anymore
I really feel for your DH, as
I really feel for your DH, as he's between a rock and a hard place. There's not much he can do if he has no legal custody and no authority. I would be very worried, though, that by the time CPS/family court would step in, SD would be so out of control and damaged that your DH's tough love attempts will be too little too late. I can't even imagine having her in my home at that point. Good luck.
ETA: You said in another blog post that you'll move out if DH goes for full custody. How does his plan work for you, then? Or are you counting on his "plan" not working?
See my response below
See my response below
Maybe DH is in to something.
Maybe DH is on to something. It sounds like he has zero decision making power, so he is giving BM the rope to hang herself.
Right now between school, lack of follow through with mental health and the dentist she is borderline neglect and DH could get social services involved.
Yep. If he has no decision
Yep. If he has no decision-making power and is an every other weekend dad, what is he supposed to do? If he gets involved and tries to set limits, he will be labeled by BM and SD as too harsh and it won't be effective.
We used to say the same thing about BM here when SS was failing at life. She did her best to marginalize DH and then had to deal with the monster she created.
Of course he should set limits in his own home, but what can he really do about BM not following the directions of professionals in her home? Nothing.
Ding ding we have a winner!
BM has full legal custody and refuses to include DH in any Decisions. Obviously BM's Coddling and no consequence Parenting is not working. BM refuses to Call 911 or punish SD14 so DH is sitting back and watching this train wreck happen. DH goals? DH is hoping SD gets so out of control that BM just can't take it anymore and gives DH legal custody or CPS/family steps in because BM can't get SD14 to do anything school, dr appointments, dentists etc. If this happens DH will be able to come down on SD14 like the hand of god without worrying BM or SD will get him in trouble by lying. This is the plan
It may not work out as he
It may not work out as he hopes. It's hard to get custody from a mother.
This is a terrible plan.
The last thing you should want is your hardbroke SD living with you full time. She will make your life a living Hell and put all kinds of strain on your marriage.
At fourteen, she is who and what she is: a semi feral emotional terrorist accustomed to getting her own way. She's emotionally and educationally stunted, so she won't be able to successfully launch like her peers. And her mother has dripped so much poison in her ear that she will likely resent you no matter what you do.
I've lived this, and if my DH and I could go back in time, we would NOT seek custody of YSD. Your DH wants to win, but hasn't fully considered just what sort of booby prize he'd be getting. It doesn't matter how firm his parenting might be; you'll still have all the drama and strife that comes with having an out of control seething ball of hate living in your home. Every. Single. Day. will bring some new battle, you'll hemorrhage money, and your resentment will grow.
Start playing the long game NOW. Plant seeds, like no other adults living in your home, because over and over we see stories where crap BMs boot the maladjusted monsters they've created as soon as c.s. ends, and Rescuer Daddee moves them in with zero expectations.
DO NOT sacrifice yourself for other people's problems.
See my response below
See my response below
I'm sorry, but what kind of
I'm sorry, but what kind of father sits back and watches the "train wreck" hoping his daughter destroys herself so he can finally take control? So he's just going to sit back and do nothing until he is finally in charge. Thing is, this child is not an object. Does he really think he could do a better job w/BM out of the picture? What's he been doing when she is at his home? Does he parent at all with the time he has, or is he just a "fun dad" trying not to rock the boat?
Sounds like DH has checked out for so long that he has no idea how to deal with his hormonal teenage daughter. It's hard, parenting is rough, the teenage years can be brutal for some parents. The thing is you have to be there, go through it with them, actually be the adult and a strong loving presence in their life. Sticking his head in the sand and blaming everything on BM is not helping his kid.
Unless something terrible happens to BM, there is no way DH will ever get full custody and the control he wants. I doubt he could handle the kid if he did get it.
To me, this isn't a "you made
To me, this isn't a "you made your own bed so sleep in it" kind of situation. this is HIS daughter too... and if he has had any amount of regular access to her and hasn't been giving her his own consequences when she has been there on HIS time.. up to and including sitting her little behind down to catch up on her online school.. then HE is part of the problem too.
He lets her play games at your house etc.. that kid wouldn't know what a gaming console looked like.. wouldn't have a cell phone period.. a locked down laptop with school work only would be the grand sum of electronics she would get.
I think he should take his child to the dentist.
This is what my DH did and SS
This is what my DH did and SS just stopped coming over. I agree that he needs to parent on his time, but I promise you, it won't solve the problem.
It may not solve the problem.
It may not solve the problem.. or his daughter might actually realize that her dad cares enough about her to want the best thing for her? she may not even realize it now.. but in the future.. she can look back and say... "well, at least dad gave a damn."
We are still waiting for that
We are still waiting for that with SS21!
See my response below
See my response below
See my response below
See my response below
DH been watching too much tv and movies
SD is out of control and old enough to be having DH put the fear of god in her. She is going to fight him call the police on him ect. He will be in jail and SD will be with her BF
This is really sad
BM is destroying her child. By this time SD's behaviors are pretty much eastablished, and no amount of tough love and wishful thinking from your DH is going to turn her around, even if he does ever get custody, which is not a certainty.
You do not want this horror in your home. You do not want this horror anywhere near your life. If your DH could look at it rationally, he would not want this either. I feel bad for him because even if BM kicks her out at 18 and she comes running to her Daddee, she's going to continue to be a horror show. Sorry to say, but this girl is lost. Your DH needs to have very firm boundaries in place for when she comes whining to him. Good luck with that. Best situation for you is to get out before DH starts trying to save her. It's not going to happen and she will drag down anyone who tries.
Please note, pretty much everyone is saying the same thing. What's that old saying? If three people say you're drunk, you need to lie down.
See my response below
See my response below
I get what everyone is saying BUT as things are now it’s
Unbearable. Both DH and I are walking on eggshells every time that brat comes over. As of right now DH can't In force rules/Consequences. One BM is against doing so and SD is a Manipulating lying monster. Which means SD would and HAS run back to mommy crying and lied about what DH did or said. BM wastes no time calling CPS on these Bogus claims which are always unfounded but stressful. So you see DH has tried and Disciplined SD but BM always came to the rescue and caused problems. Once BM is out of the picture one DH will not Hesitate to call 911 on SD and trust me a few trips being dragged off screaming by the police will smarten little Princess up fast. If not and she continues to be a Monster DH will ship her off to a Psychiatric hospital. This Tough love will either fix SD or drive her away when she turns 18. Either way I don't care. All I know is how things are now can't continue
So here's the deal - BM will
So here's the deal - BM will never be "out of the picture". Even if they did give custody to your DH, BM will still have visitation, and it would be easy as could be for SD to refuse to return to DH's from her house. SD will still run to BM with complaints, and BM can still call CPS on you. BM isn't going anywhere. That's not how family court works.
Keep setting the limits now, and SD will eventually refuse visits with DH. That's the best you can do.
I get BM will not be out of the picture we are just hoping
To limit her pull with family court/CPS. What I mean if SD14 gets so bad that BM can't get SD to do anything and CPS has to step. Or BM just gives up because SD Physically assaulted her(happened before) these two things are likely to happen. 1. BM basically will have no say in how DH Chooses to discipline SD as her way did not work and the Alternative is to take SD back which BM won't want at this point. Number two the MOST important is SD's Credibility will be gone and will be labeled as a out of control Juvenile delinquent. So if SD try's any of her poor me BS or lying what DH did to her no one will believe her due to her past. This being said what DH goal may not work in fixing SD. It will either fix SD or drive her away when she turns 18. Either way I don't care
I think you guys are not
I think this is not going to go how you want. BM's fingers can still call CPS, and will, if she's the NCP and feels that DH is abusive to SD. She can also alienate SD and get her to refuse to come over to your home.
Also, I'd be shocked if BM gave up and sent her over to you. I don't think this is going to go how your DH hopes.
There are no psychiatric
There are no psychiatric hospitals that she'll magically get shipped off to. She'll get a three-day hold and then be released back to you all for outpatient care. Even if she does get sent off, you'll end up bankrupted by the thousands of dollars PER DAY in-patient stay that will eventually be capped and she'll be released yet again.
The police will also not come every time she loses her mind. Sure, once or twice, but eventually they'll tell your DH to sort it out himself. And there aren't many places you can send an angry, defiant teen that also won't bankrupt you in mere weeks to months.
Your DH is taking one hell of a gamble. As tog said, even if BM loses custody, she won't lose visitation. And the cops aren't going to drag SD back to your home even though a court order says to. This is all a game, and the options are to play or not. If he wants to not play, then he needs to refuse visitation with SD and see her outside the home. Or, he needs to enforce rules with her and lay the smackdown now. Let her choose not to come over anymore if she doesn't like that. But waiting until she is out of control and THEN try to bring her under control with a false understanding of what resources are available is a risky-to-bad plan.
They might keep her a week or
They might keep her a week or two in the hospital, but around here, even that is hard to get. And it's for kids who are suicidal, not who don't want to go to school.
Does the OP not have insurance? Psych stuff should be covered (here anyway, but I'm in a blue state).
SD’s therapist gave us a number to call if she gets violent
BM refuses because it will be to Traumatic for SD. BM is correct in this. SD is so Sheltered coddled and babied she would lose her mind if the police came and dragged her off to the ED to be Evaluated. One of two things would happen. SD after being dragged off by the police once or twice would either dummy up or get so Alienated from DH that she would never forgive him and as soon as she turned 18 would be gone. Either way I don't care
I'd lose my mind if the
I'd lose my mind if the police dragged me off to the ED to be evaluated, too.
That's not really what they do, by the way. They will come and talk to her, and it's highly unlikely they will force her to go, ie, "drag her off".
It seems clear you dislike this kid, why would you want DH to end up with full custody? Just let BM ruin her and she can fail to launch at BM's home. Your DH doesn't discipline by his own choice, so if you want your home to be more peaceful, make him discipline.
Here's the thing, when she's
Here's the thing, when she's 18 he can't force her into a psychiatric hospital. His only chance is now that she is a minor. THIS is the time to get her help, he won't be able to help her when she's and adult with free will. And yeah, they don't drag you there. It's a 1013 in my state, a crisis unit or the police will come and evaluate the situation and ask them to go voluntarily and try to talk them into it in a peaceful manner as to not further trigger the breakdown and have it turn violent- they will do everything in their power typically to de-escalate. If she refuses they CAN then handcuff her in back of a police squad - first they go to ER to get checked out and blood taken, etc, meds given if needed after an evaluation, then they get assigned a case manager, THEN they move them to a psychiatric hospital for a hold. My son has been through this twice (probably not the last) for his mental illness. The first time the cops came and as dangerous as he seemed and in psychosis, he went voluntarily. The 2nd time he rode in back of the ambulance after a crisis unit came to assess him-the cop was in the driveway for backup and never interacted with him.
Correct but by the time SD turns 18 she will either
Be so Alienated from DH from his tough love, be fixed or in jail. Either way she will be out of my hair. Yes I know if you call The crisis unit they will try and talk to SD first and get her to go Willingly. But here's the problem. SD is highly over reactive and prone to violent outbursts over minor things. SD has already said if anyone try's and take her away she will kill them with a knife or kill herself first. Yes unlikely she would be Successful with this BUT shows how out of control violent she would get if they tried. There would be NO talking her into going willingly. They would Literally have to hog tie her and drag her out kicking and screaming. SD is also VERY Vengeful so if DH did this SD would not see it as DH trying to help but would be bitter towards DH for it. Again either way I don't care. A few trips to the ED will either fix SD or piss her off eve more so she will end up just getting worse(jail) or completely cut DH off when she's 18.
Yeah, yeah, kids say that.
Yeah, yeah, kids say that. And when the police show up they are as docile as lambs.
And by the way, your DH doesn't have any tough love. If he did, he'd be doing it now.
Yep, true, from my own
Yep, true, from my own experience with my son.
The next time she says
The next time she says anything like this, call the appropriate services like her therapist said to. NOT doing so could be construed as neglect and could be turned against your DH for doing nothing while she was in his care.
I don't really get how OP
I don't really get how OP feels DH is full of "tough love" when he's not parenting either. BM can call CPS, but if he's doing what the therapist recommends, it won't be a founded report.
I know. This could be her
I know. This could be her only chance to get the help she clearly needs. I have a hard time accepting that at age 14 she's just written off for life when there IS help out there.
Exactly. And he doesn't have
Exactly. And he doesn't have to beat her. Just set limits, give consequences, and follow through on the recommendations of the therapist. BM can report to CPS all she likes, that won't be founded.
Personality and coping skills
Personality and coping skills are prety much set by age 10-11. At 14, it would take a lot of work to change SD's behavior & she would have to be motivated to do so.
Ill Chime in
So - I saw your post, comments and then your "see comments below" comment.
So, Ill chime in with my experience.
SDnow22 Feral Forger.
DH fought long and hard against Toxic Troll and lost. At 17 FF was caught stealing. By then, I got used to the 'no consequences' and just watched as every other week was ww3 trying to get her lazy a$$ up for school, trying to get her to clean up after herself, then grades (never that good), and basically DH became a "warehouse parent". Put a roof overhead, clean place to shower and sleep, food. Electricity. Own room. That was it, that was his parenting, because no matter what he did, it was always "your an abuser!!!" From Toxic Troll, and then Feral Forger. Forget about BM being the one who physically abused her daughter.
Cut to now. Once FF turned 18, and graduated high school (barely), she got a job and started living somewhere else, leaving the trash and personal items behind at our house, in her old room. A few years later, she was asked to leave that place and moved in with TT. A bit after that she asked to have her old room back, but Id already cleared it out and moved myself and stuff in. And there was no way she was going to live with me again. Through all the back and forth these almost 7 years, shes become a total user low-life do nothing. No drivers license, no job, 1 college class thats not going well. Constant fights and drama. Constant "im going to kill myself im so depressed". A visit to psych ward. Stolen checks and credit cards (karma TT!).
These kids, once broken, dont seem to get any better, and stay emotionally stunted and regressive.
I get what the plan is. Get full custody while you can. Then batten down the hatches and try to rescue what might be left.
Just please be prepared with boundaries and nanny-cams, lock up your valuables and have a launch plan ready (either for yourself or her). He might be thinking that he will be all about tough love...but then reality hits and its not that simple.
Some kids are a total lost
At 14 there is nothing you can do. Only thing that could happen is BM gives you the old. I can do anything SO you should take her to live with you. What will destroy your marriage. So be careful. She is not doing to listen to DH or you.
You try something,she will be calling CPS or the police for assault her. Mental and or physically. A hole new Sh*tshow
This is what we are living with now...fear of being falsely
Reported by SD. If SD get so bad that BM can't get SD to do anything(very likely) and SD get violent with BM who will believe SD if she makes false accusations against us. Right now BM has everyone thinking poor SD ( school/ therapist) so it's hard to Reinforce consequences when BM is playing the pity card on SD
If you're living in fear of
If you're living in fear of being falsely reported, I think I'd do one of two things. You could have your DH take his visitation with SD outside of the home, preferably in a public place - like taking her out to dinner. Keep the drama out of your home if he's not willing to be the parent and impose discipline and consequences. SD will be a lost cause, but you'll have peace in your home. The other alternative is to have her come EOWE as usual, but have him start parenting her. Don't let her get away with stuff; impose consequences. Have multiple cameras rolling in your house the whole time she's there, and have DH wear a hidden voice activated recorder that is on the whole time SD is there. Then he'll have something to counter any false claims she makes. I think this will still be miserable for you and DH, at least in the short term and probably longer, but it might do some good. I guess it depends how far gone she already is.
Let a lying kid who falsely reports abuse, etc... to the authorities stand in front of a Judge and explain their lying manipulative bullshit as the footage and sound roles for the public record.
Keep multiple copies so if a Judge tries to suppress it, you have backups for next time, and so on, and so on, and so on. Document, document, document.
We did this for the entire 16+ years we lived under the CO though not with web cams. They were only a thing for the years towards the end of our CO years. We did have dozens of micro cassettes of every telephone conversation that was had with anyone in the SpermClan, every ranting banshee shrieking message they left on our answering machine, all of the tapes of the court recordings for every hearing, and comprehensive journals documenting anything and everything that occurred regarding my SS's visitation with his SpermClan, etc......
We did not have false reporting issues with SS. Our problems were with his SpermClan. So, we captured the data and brought the pain where it needed to be applied. Ultimately SS would do his own research in our home office reviewing our comprehensive record of their crap when they would lie to him, manipulate, or spout bullshit that did not pass the smell test of reasonableness.
They hated that, but they also learned that if they were going to lie and manipulate that they were going to suffer. Ultimately in the case of my SS, he learned how to protect himself from their crap and is the greatest service his mom and I were able to do for him while he was a kid. Facilitate his learning the facts and how to protect himself from the crap through his adulthood.
When the problem is the Skid, you still have to protect yourself, your mate, your own kids, and your marriage.
Yep, Web cams.
There is a reason why humans invented the paddle.
There is a reason humans invented the paddle. It allowed even our pea brained ancestors to influence the direction, path, and outcome of a journey taken on a raft, dugout canoe, and when made really long and renamed the oar, control galley ships.
A paddle applied to the ass of this kind of violent, manipulative, ill behaved shit kid, provides them with direction through the application of leverage and energy.
With all due respect Rags,
With all due respect Rags, this advice is outdated and if heeded could land a parent in jail.
Only in Delaware, the last I read anyway.
No worries. I just happen to be a proponent of corporal punishment as an option in some situations.
This site has quick access to the spanking statutes of each State.
State by State Spanking Laws - Kidjacked.com
I think that actively
I think that actively engaging LE and MH professionals to build an official record of psychiatric instability in this kid is the only thing left to do that can get her help and keep her on the RADAR screen of the authorities for the rest of her life. A history of criminal behaviors and mental health instabiity is exactly the label this kid needs slapped on her forehead. The record of a minor may be sealed but LE, the Courts, and the medical community can access those records if her continuing behavioral crap warrants it and she is increasingly a danger to herself and others.