BM refusing access (again)
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BM is refusing access on basis "kids don't want to come". Got kids to tell their father they refuse to attend access with him. No reasons given. Does he file breach of court order with court system (again) or just leave it and take a wait and see approach? He's an emotional wreck after the kids told him they don't want to visit him. What's best approach here?
also, I'm worried for me. I'm anxious as this whole situation is so stressful for me too. And I'm not sure I want this drama in my life any more. I want a moderately stress free life where I don't have to listen to BM drama every single week of my life.
How old are these kids?
How old are these kids?
Why does he allow them to not want to come for visitation? It's his time and he should take it.
The "wait and see" technique seldom works in these situations.
The wait and see
Probably doesn't work. BM appears to have worked her magic and thinks by getting them to refuse she's still complaint with the court order. They refused to come out the house and leave with him. Basically told him to F off.
She isn't compliant with the
She isn't compliant with the CO. She is supposed to make the kids available for visitation.
Are these teens we're talking about?
Eldest is 12
And youngest 8
Then your DH should put his
Then your DH should put his foot down and tell them they are coming with him, like it or not. And not leave until they are in his car. And remind his ex that she's in contempt of the order and that he can take her back to court for that.
PS
He should call the police every time this happens. The police can do nothing about it but they must file a report. Your DH needs those reports as proof she isn't making the kids available.
Has he taken it to court
Has he taken it to court before? What was the outcome? In general, most places don't let kids that age make a choice, and she's violating the CO by not making them go, so yes - he should go. See if he can file on his own, then he doesn't have attorney costs. Some places have the forms online.
Also, he needs to recognize that BM is driving this and his kids do love him. He can't get emotional and fall apart, that's what BM is hoping for. This is parental alienation and it's really not about him or his parenting - it's about BM and her issues.
Show up at her house with the
Show up at her house with the CO. Ask for the kids. Call the police to see if they'll assist. If they won't, file a report. Then take the report and file it with contempt paperwork every single time this happens. Or, your DH lets it go. There is no half-arsing this. Either he needs to commit to seeing his children and doing everything he can, or he needs to let BM have control. It's not right or fair, but putting in a half-hearted effort looks much the same in court as no effort at all.
^^^This^^^
Lt is spot on. Your H needs to stiffen his spine, get a police incident report, and file contempt of court charges EACH & EVERY time this happens. This isn't about his kids rejecting him; this is about his High Conflict BM interfering with his court ordered time with his children. If you can afford a good attorney, get one and drags BM back to court every time she pulls this. If you can't afford one, your H can represent himself. He needs to teach BM that each violation of the CO = pain, inconvenience, and loss of $$, etc
He should also keep all communication written, and print out any damning texts, emails, etc for court. Keep detailed documentation of everything, including dates, times, who said what, etc.
He should keep trying to contact his children.
You both need to read everything you can on High Conflict exes and Parallel Parenting. You can't coparent with a HC ex.
Be prepared for the skids to be somewhat alienated from the poison BM is putting in them. When they do resume visitation, have nanny cams in place for your own protection.
as others have said the wait
as others have said the wait and see approach usually just results in the situation getting worse and worse and you seeing the kids less and less. Now from my perspective I am fine with not seeing my SD very often. For us it's not going to change child support or anything else.
However if you have a more equitable custody schedule and you and your husband do want to see the kids then you need to document every time this happens. Go as if you're going to pick them up at the normal time and maybe buy something small so you have a timestamp receipt. You can notify the police to help enforce visitation but oftentimes just threatening to do so is enough. basically you document this happening consistently a few times to build your case to file for contempt. If you don't document anything you don't have much of a case.
if the kids don't want to come an alternative that we did for a while was to see them for the day rather than all weekend with an overnight. Sometimes this worked and we just took SD to the movies and the mall and hung out.
Around here, the police will
Around here, the police will not enforce custody orders, but in some places they will, so it's worth a try.
He can do this without a
He can do this without a lawyer, But he will have a much better chance taking care of it effectively and quickly with one. Once his lawyer starts him emailing her or her lawyer she may just shape up. He needs to document every single time that the kids are not made available or even if they are 30 minutes late. Keep all of BMs texts and emails
In my experience calling the police won't do much except for annoy them. This is a family court issue not a criminal issue. In order for the police to enforce anything they have to have a direct order from the judge. Right now with coronavirus the police are not going into anyone's house and ripping children from the other parent unless it's an extreme situation.
Unfortunately
He's chosen the path of doing nothing as he is emotionally drained and exhausted and mentally unable for any more of this. It's actually awful to see the person you love so utterly helpless and defeated. He can't bare the thought of court again because he's conscious of what she will do to the kids and indeed what accusations she will come up with this time.
sadly he has come to the end of his journey on this. And unfortunately it's the kids who will ultimately suffer in the end.
There is no shame in stopping
There is no shame in stopping court action if he hasn't had any success after multiple visits. Many courts do not get parental alienation, and he's correct that BM makes the kids suffer all that much more every time he goes to court. My DH eventually gave up on court and his son stopped coming over for 3 years.
BUT, if he's going to do that, he also has to figure out how to let go and move on. So that means no longer trying to pick them up for their visits - get a message to them that the door is open and he loves them very much, but he won't be forcing them to visit. He can't put himself through the endless refusal of access - it's too stressful for him and them.
Then he has to get therapy or do what's needed to figure out how to thrive in life anyway, even with his kids being alienated. That's the true way to "win" over a BM like this - don't let her destroy you.
Sorry, I know it's hard to watch.
I am seriously
Considering leaving the relationship as I think my removal from my partners life will enable him to restore his regular access and get his relationship back with his kids.
The burden of guilt is actually killing me knowing she is only doing this because he is in a relationship with me.
has anyone done similar and see their partners situation improve? As in their access is restored and the crazy ex calms down?
As an FYI they had been split up 6 ish years when we met,
Please don't do that. She
Please don't do that. She will still mess with him and alienate his kids, and then he will have lost you. Is he supposed to live like a monk forever just to please BM?
You aren't to blame. Focus on being a support to him as he navigates being alienated from his kids. I know now that if it weren't for me, DH would have had a much harder time dealing with his toxic ex damaging his relationship with his child.
It's not your fault, whatsoever. Or DH's. The blame for this rests solely on BM.
Don't you want a child of
Don't you want a child of your own and he changed his mind about having one with you? I would leave based on that fact alone.
Only leave if you are
Only leave if you are actually done with the relationship. Forget the guilt. If you know you are not personally making the choice to decrease your DH's access, there is nothing to feel guilty about. Sometimes you have to be a little selfish when dealing with these types of people and situations or you will find yourself as a minor supporting character in your own life, barely getting through each day.
Not their choice and not BM's
Not their choice and not BM's choice. First, he needs to file a contempt motion against BM every single time she fails to surrender the StepSpawn as ordered in the CO. Then... he needs to go to BM's house, pound on her door and demand that his children get in the car. He calls the police first and lets them know that he will be at BM's picking up his children and that she will likely refuse to surrender his children as ordered by the CO. He should have a copy of his CO in hand with the sections on his visitation highlighted to quickly show the police when they show up. You should be recording it all for future viewing by the Judge to show BM refusing to surrender his children in clear violation of the CO.
Once he has his kids he needs to sit them down and review the CO word for word and explain that BM is violating the law by violating the CO and she may spend a lot of time in court if she does it again. He should dedicate as much of each of his visitations as neccessary to educate his kids on their BM's manipulative bullshit. IMHO the only way to prepare and protect kids from a toxic BioParent like this BM is to give them the facts. This kind of crap only gets worse as kids get older and won't end even when the are adults unless the quality BioParent gives the kids the facts and keeps them fully aware fo the facts.
IMHO of course.
How do you explain
The court order to the kids? Ask them their understanding of what's happening and why they don't get to see their father? Explain to them they can come any time to stay but for now he can only have them at the times stated on the court order? That he would like to have them more often? Rebuff all the negative comments she has made about their father to them? That he is useless, doesn't want to see them, that his new partner is more important? I'm not clear on how much should be shared with them given their ages?
How old are they?
How old are they?
Youi can certainly tell them that a judge decided that they would live with their mother and would see their father EOW/every other week/only during the holidays/whatever the CO says. You can also explain to them that if they don't come during his allotted time that their mother could get into trouble with the judge.
They should start to receive
They should start to receive the facts including review of the CO when BM starts manipulating. The more she manipulates and the more toxic she is the more they are seasoned with the facts. Review the CO with them, word for word. When BM violates, review that with them as well. Highlighting the portions of the CO, State Regulations, and supplemental county rules that BM is violating. Make sure to When BM fails to surrender the kids per the CO, dad needs to nail her ass each and every time with a contempt motion. The more toxic BM is, the more pain you and DH deliver in response to her toxic crap. Lather, rinse, repeat.
Kids who are not cursed with a shallow and polluted manipulative toxic end to their gene pool do not need quite the deep and repeated dive into the facts. Though even kids who are blessed with two decent parents and whose lives are governed by a CO should have exposure to the facts so that they can understand what governs the dynamics of their life as minors. IMHO of course.
Yes, address each and every manipulative line that BM has played. Dissect her toxicity strand by strand. BM started this mess and it is Dad's duty to counter each ane every line of manipulative crap she spews with the facts. The CO is the basis for countering toxicity. If the blended family oppostion is toxic, the kids need all of the facts, the court records, arrest records, credit history, CS accounting (a spreadsheet is a great tool for showing the kids that dad supports them significantly and that BM is wasting the money that DH provides for support of the kids), etc... What ever is necessary to counter the crap. The whole intent of keeping the kids fully seasoned with the facts is for DH to protect his rights and for the kids to have the information to ultimately protect themselves from their toxic BM as they grow up and as they trasition into adulthood. Toxic POS morons like this BM will never stop manipulating and playing even their own kids. It is their father's duty to protect them, keep BM's nose rubbed firmly in the stench of her odiferous life's carpet and to demonstrate consistently that he has his kids' backs. This has to include clarity on the CO, any other toxic behavioral crap that BM pulls, etc..
His home, and yours, has to be their refuge from toxic manipulation but it cannot be a place where they are kept in the dark.
IMHO of course.
Good luck.