You are here

Alienated - Frustrated- Help

lostinbtown's picture

Hello. This is my first time on a forum so please forgive me. My husband and I have been together for 7 years now. He has 2 daughters from his previous marriage. One daughter we have not seen in 4 years (she is now 14). When she was ten and we had her for the weekend we had her sleep over at her grandparents house. She made it clear she didnt want to go. My husband and I made plans for the night so she had to go. The stupid BM called the cops on his parents because the daughter called her while she was in their care. Needless to say we picked up the girls the next day and when we returned them sunday night to their mother we have never seen the eldest daughter again. She is the most awful little girl in the world and I know she is being manipulated by her mother but this is so hard. The daughter use to text her father and I telling us not to come to her soccer games or else she would say he touched her inappropriately. We have begged and begged the BM for help and all she thinks is that this is our consequence for OUR actions. That we should have respected her wishes and not had her sleep over when she didnt want to. We have sent her many cards and presents, she doesnt return them or write back, but she does throw them away. We know this from her sister.

My husband is a good man and it hurts me to see his own children become selfish spoiled little brats who dont care a lick about their loving father. The BM does nothing to encourage a relationship between the girls and their dad, but believe me when I say she cares about getting all his money and leaving him broke as a joke.

We went to court and all the judges told the mother she was wrong in her actions but that its too late to help. That this is not a matter for the BM and BF to work out between themselves as a court cant order a child to be with their parent. Clearly they cant work this out when the BM wont listen to us and supports her daughters decision to not have her in our lives. Right cause who needs a father anyways??

The BM has her bf though. The man she broke up her marriage for. He parades the 2 girls around like they are his own. Even writing on websites and profiles that he "Is loving father to...". Oh and did I mention that he is also now the kids coach for their sport team?? I cant take this anymore. My husband is literally being replaced and his kids are turning into selfish little b*itches.

What do I do? What can we do?? Anyone else experience all this??

Sparklelady's picture

"You will never "win" against a BM who wants to poison her child when it has gone this far. "

Truth.

Disneyfan's picture

He could have gone to court. He could have had the brats threat put on record. He could have given mom hell for her roll in all if this.

There's plenty he could have done. Walking away from a 10 year old who makes a sick threat is ridiculous.

Since he made the CHOICE to walk away, why get upset when mom's boyfriend makes the choice to step into the dad role?

omgstop's picture

Ha! My puppy has peed on the neighbors welcome mat....I considered it payback for having to smell their skunky weed wafting off their balcony every weekend now that it's warm Blum 3

momandmore's picture

Lol... I'm glad my closest neighbor is 1/2 mile down the road. Not for weed.. I have to stay clean to keep my rights but it would be nice, I'll admit!

momandmore's picture

I keep my wine close but today quickly turned into not a wine day... I should have picked up some scotch before I left town!
I can buy it in the very close small town... I might have to have DH grab me some... it's like $20. more than where I was at but it will be well worth it!!

momandmore's picture

yeah.. I wouldn't trust anything in text saying it was from SKid while with the other parent... ya never know!

lostinbtown's picture

He didnt walk at all. He fought long and hard for her. He went to every school event until the threats started. He still goes and talks to her teachers. We go to her activities but have to keep a distance. he writes her a letter every week, she never replies.He went to court and she hit him with every delay imaginable, even getting the child a psych eval. The courts sided with dad but all judges said they didnt want to force the child to see him. $30K in debt later and nothing has changed.

lostinbtown's picture

TO ALL THE HATERS WHO THINK HE WALKED AWAY; I HOPE ONE DAY YOUR KIDS LEAVE YOU TOO. THEN YOU WILL KNOW THE PAIN. PARENTAL ALIENATION IS THE WORST KIND OF CHILD ABUSE.

And if you are going to make offensive comments, id like to see your suggestions on what he should do? Cause at this point we have done everything; she was court ordered to attend counselling and BM didnt bring her cause she didnt want to go. we still having in writing that we have custody of her every other weekend, but no judge will enforce it. she wont return any letters we send. at her graduation she walked right by and kept her back turned the whole time. the psych said there is nothing wrong with her she just doesnt like the way her dad parents (meaning we dont give her every little thing she wants).

so tell me, what do YOU do?

lostinbtown's picture

He went to court right away and fought it for 4 years. Again, throw out a useful suggestion or keep your mouth shut

Shaman29's picture

Until you've been in this situation, you should shut your fucking pie-hole Tommar.

The "courts" can order the CP to comply, but it doesn't mean the CP will comply.

The "courts" can find in favor of the NCP, but that doesn't mean they will get to see their kids.

And in the case of threatening the father of molesting his own children, he was wise to step away from the situation and keep his distance. Regardless of where the threat originated, in cases like this, the police and the courts and employers and friends and the public judge first, and ask questions later. His life would have been ruined in seconds, all because of PAS and a bitchy CP.

So back the fuck off. He hasn't given up on his kids. He's making the wise choice to fade into the background for the time being.

WTF...REALLY's picture

I find there are times when kids aren't little " bitches". There are times when a parent earns the treatment they get from the kids. I have a very strong feeling your husband earned this treatment. He did this. He blew it. And a kid freckling out about going to the grandfathers home....well that smells bad as well. Something happened to this girl.

Your husband should go to therapy to see if he can get to the bottom of what he did to earn this from her. Then hopefully one day he will have a deeper understanding of his actions. Give a deep apology to her and then maybe she will invite him back in her life.

WTF...REALLY's picture

So in all cases it's always the child that is the issue. The child that caused the problem. If there was some form of abuse, the child should STFU and take it?

There is respect then there is just plain fear based "respect". So happy my kids know the difference.

omgstop's picture

This is all really sad. Have you guys tried counseling? Like maybe it will help him cope with all this; like someone else said, things will change when his kids are older, everyone grows up. Good luck to you guys.

lostinbtown's picture

Again, we have done all we can. Her mother keeps her locked up so we can have contact. On days when he goes to the school to pick up his other daughter, the BM arrives early to pick up the other one so she doesnt have to see her dad. NOTHING HAPPENED to his eldest by way of the father. Her BM has screwed with her head. We found out later that the BM had been telling his daughters that his parents were mean and awful people who cant be trusted. She told them it was okay to visit but never sleep over. Now lets keep in mind his dad is a police officer himself...

ocs's picture

this happened to us too.

One fine day after SD had a good time with us, it was a complete 180 degree switch where all of a sudden SD didn't want to sleep over because she was too scared.

BM was ok with her visiting but not spending the night... whatever... hardly a red flag. It's an easily manipulated 10yr old by a batshit BM.

SD had fun with us and asked to stay 2hrs longer... BM retaliated by launching an ugly 4yr battle which ended up with police at her house and the only thing that stood between her and jail was me.

Tommar- you're kind of being a bully

AllySkoo's picture

I dunno... I feel for you. And I strongly suspect that you, at least, haven't done anything wrong. I'm sorry you're so hurt by all this, and I do agree with the others who tell you that it's time to lay this down. Let it go. You don't have to do this to yourself any more.

But I WILL say (stop reading if you don't want my "other side") that I think there's more going on here than you're aware of. It just doesn't pass the smell test. A 10 year old girl decides, suddenly, to never see her dad again because she slept at her grandparents? I'm sorry, but I also think there's something else to this. Maybe dear old cop GF tried to cop a feel from BM1. Maybe he said or did something that she felt was unsafe or immoral around the kids. You don't know - you CAN'T know, you weren't there. Yes, yes, I know you don't THINK BM has a "reason"... but she clearly DOES think so. And it's something she's unwilling to discuss, which tells me it's very likely something she discussed at the time with your DH and she got blown off. So now she's not going there. *shrug*

But whether you accept that SD (and BM) have REASON to not want contact with your DH, the fact remains that they DON'T. You're not going to be able to force the issue. So step back, have DH send periodic letters just saying "I love you", and live your lives. There's not much else you can do.

lostinbtown's picture

WOW im shocked and disgusted by the people on here. Thank you for all of those who supported, but I dont think I will ever come here again. Like I said, it was my first post and now it will be my last. The fact that none of it makes sense is what is frustrating. I turned to you all to vent and see if anyone has gone through something similar. And you turn it around saying my husband walked away or that his dad possibly molested her?!?!? This is disgusting. Don't you think in the 4 years, and $30k in legal fees later, of legal wars or doctor's test and social workers they would have suspected if something was wrong?? All professionals were found to be in favor of my husband and felt sorry for him. Social workers told the mom you "dont stop kids from seeing there father at such a young age."

The legal system has failed and now has this forum.

Excuse me while I rid myself of the hate in this world....

lostinbtown's picture

Oh no the court wants him to see but as the last judge said "If I make an order for your daughter to see you, she will just hate you more. Im so sorry that the system has failed you." The judge then looked at the BM and said "The toxicity you bring into this family must do wonders on your children."

WTF...REALLY's picture

Danielle, am I one of the people you are talking about? I did zero taunting, gave my advise and opinion. Since when are you the steptalk police? Please, by all means hand out your rule book for being on here. What a joke.

I have gotten lots of replies to my post that I do not agree with. I am a big girl with lots of self esteem, so I can live in a world with varying opinions.

WTF...REALLY's picture

If the courts are in favor of a parent and they see the other parent PASing a child, that parent can lose custody. So saying all the courts agreed with your DH but did nothing makes no sense. Both my hubby and I have gone to court in regards to both our kids.

ownpersonalopinion1's picture

Lost-stick around like Bechers suggested. This board has some good people on here. People were ugly to me at first also.
Cull the bad advice and listen to the good.

AllySkoo's picture

I don't know that much that was said was "hurtful". Nobody attacked HER. Tommar took issue with how hard the Dad did or did not fight for his kid when she was 10. *shrug* But if the OP knows what went on at the time then Tommar's opinion on it shouldn't matter to her.

For what it's worth, I do believe this poster is telling the truth as she knows it. But I also think maybe she doesn't know everything. And I don't think there's really anything "hurtful" about saying that. *shrug*

Drac0's picture

Tommar, it really depends on the state and country. Past a certain age, a judge cannot force a child to see the other parent. Plain and Simple. Judges these days just "assume" that both parents will co-parent and if they don't then he will "encourage" them to do so, which - quite frankly - is laughable. It's like me "encouraging" SS to do well in school by saying he should. He sees no reason to do so, so he won't bother.

If the child is being witheld, then yes, the judge can give the mother a slap on the wrist for denying the other parent visitation rights.

ocs's picture

Husbands and biodads get raked over the coals if 'god forbid' they take a step back. Had my DH run to court everytime BM did something stupid, he would have no job, no money and for what? A kid who resents him and is PAS'd out?

No one says children are disposable, and it is too bad someone here accused you of that.

SD15 has recently become somewhat normal- she is maturing and sees the difference between her hag destitute bitter BM and talks and hangs out with DH. It is a slow road. She now call him to ask to see him.

Drac0's picture

This is a sad story and unfortunately not the first time I heard something similar. It happened to a colleague I once knew. His daughter got estranged from him and it was largely due to the PAS tactics of the mother.

You said that the courts can't do anything and sadly this is also true. If the daughter doesn't want to see his father, the courts cannot force her to (especially if she is deemed mature).

You should tell your husband to contact the "Father's 4 Justice" chapter in your region. They may be able to give him some advice.

As for my advice. I have seen it time and time again. A parent who encourages a child to disrespect the other parent will eventually reap what they sow. Your step-daughter will one day turn on her mother (and possibly the stepfather). I can guarantee it.

When that happens, be ready.

misSTEP's picture

I'm sorry this has happened to you and your DH. We have a similar issue with our skids. The worst part of all is that my SD now has 2 children that my DH only got to see enough to get attached and poof - now we don't see any of them.

Every single time we went to court, the judge would give BM a "talking to." Not that it did any good. Even when my DH got awarded a fine for Contempt of Court by the BM, it resulted in her going by the CO for about 3-4 months. Then back to how she was doing it before.

How much money does a person throw at a situation they are helpless to change?

Sparklelady's picture

Wow lots of judging here today, huh?
OP, I'm so sorry. It's so hard when, despite your best efforts, nothing can be done. I have a friend where I live, who's ex-wife was producing Internet porn in her house with her children in the home, with concrete evidence of these activities, and even that wasn't enough for him to get a court to enforce his visitation or change custody arrangements. I get it. Sometimes you cannot win.

So sorry you're going through this. Please look into disengaging and parental alienation for some tips to get through.

Shaman29's picture

OP - I suggest counseling for you and your husband to get through this rough time. But most importantly, you both need to realize there is nothing more than you can do.

Your H can continue to write those letters but he should start making copies of them. If they're being thrown away, possibly by the BM, then his kids may not know he's been trying to develop a relationship with them.

I watched Uberskank try to do this to my H and it didn't work. Sadly she's been able to do this to both of my skid's younger sisters and their bio-fathers.

I wish you both the best but you must realize this is now out of your hands. As much as the courts are backing you, the threats coming from the skids are very real and you're both being wise to not engage or encourage that behavior from them.

Best of luck.

Jsmom's picture

Wish I saw this earlier... this is what happens to dads... it is not talked about. It happened to us at 13 with SD. I have watched it with two of DH's colleagues. One has fought for years and won't give up. I think you need to quit. Dh did with SD. Now it is dinner twice a year at this rate. She is 19 and not a part of our lives. We are good with it now, especially after the court battle and the BS she put us through. Let it go, you will be happier.

peacemaker's picture

...What you are experiencing is called complex trauma. It is the result of a bm who is narcissistic and is using PAS ing as a venue to destroy the relationship between the children and their father...look it up. She poisons their thinking process about their bf every chance she gets. They, in return bastardizes everything you two do. You are referred to as the targeted parents and she is the favored one. Ironically, it is emotional mental and psychological abuse she is imposing on her own children. There is no love in it, and the loyalty of the children feeds her narcissism, as well as the destruction of the relationship.

They say a child's desire to be with their bio parent is as fundamental as our desire to eat and reproduce...So, for a child to not want to be with their father, there is something wrong. They are being coached...and as for her boyfriend...He has stolen the role of the father because narcissists believe people can be replaced...So, to feed her illness, he is acting as the father. They are probably being told he is the one always there for them. (of coarse he is there more, he lives in the same house)...Our s kids were told he was their "new daddy"...they had to be loyal to their moms wishes because they lived with her and would suffer the emotional consequences if they didn't play along with the mommy wins everything game.

It is a fairly new diagnoses, and the parent who is the favored one, abusing their own childen...is actually the more dangerous one...Although they APPEAR to be the more stable one, the more caring one on and on...they are just great performers...and the better performer they are, the more dangerous they are considered to be.

See Dr. Childress on utube EXCELLENT INFORMATION....

it is so newly discovered, they do not have many counselors trained to de-program childen who have been brainwashed into hating their parent. If you buy them presents they are told you are trying to buy their love..If you don't they say you do not care...It is a horrible consequence of some broken families...It is a direct result of one parent's hate and unforgiveness going too far. They will stop at nothing to win the loyalty of their children because their illness craves to be fed...They refer to it as the perfect hate crime...the goal is to kill the relationship out of revenge.

The complex trauma you are experiencing is similar to ptsd...Only complex trauma is caused by high levels of stress being imposed on your family for a long period of time...It took me three years to break free from the toxic life patterns the bm imposed on us constantly...always using the children as a pawn to gain access to our family...it was literally like coming out of a cult and having to get de programed myself...Out s kids are all over 40 now and still have no idea what was done to them. Bm died 3 years ago, and they cannot face reality about how truly sick she was.

It is difficult to confront a narcisstic person who gets off on your pain...They truly do not care about anyone except themselves...not even their own children...Perhaps when you google parent alienation syndrome..you can find some resources to get some help...

With our s kids..they learned to use the relationship as a weapon, and eventually pulled the plug themselves when they realized we were not going to play the game...now they passed it on to the grandchildren because it is the legacy they have embraced...

What helped me survive the pain is when I realized It is their baggage and not mine to pick up. When they get to be adults they get to choose...the problem is, they choose what they know....at 14, you still might be able to intervene with some professional coaching regarding this...You and your dh need to stay strong for each other's sake...peace

IslandGal's picture

I'm sorry to hear you're going though this hell OP. Been there - done that. SD(now 14) used to be super close to her Dad. So close that she fought her own grandmother when she came over to take care of them when BM abandoned ship. Took her grandmother 4 years to get her to accept her.

BM came back into the picture with her new lesbian partner and through counselling and SO's guidance, skids learnt to adapt and accept the new situation. SO had been single for 6 years by this time. Then I came along and we started a relationshp. All hell broke loose with SD and BM.

SD who was 12 at the time, stopped visiting because we stopped allowing her Mom to try controlling our weekends by booking activities that would take up the entire time. We had no argument with the activities per se.. just wanted BM to stay away when it was our time to take them. She would attend every game and cause dramas. SD took her Mom's side. SO and BM had mediation (BM refused) and SD had counselling. Counsellor's advice was for SD to remain with her mother. SO reached out constantly in the last 2 years. Emails, cards, texts, phone calls. Nothing - nada - zilch. So off WE went to counselling to try to learn how to deal with this.

Our Counsellor advised us that the best thing to do would be to leave it alone. No point going through courts 'cos SD would be allowed to "think with her feet" meaning, she would decide where she wanted to be, no matter what the courts said. So. No court.

SO misses her every single day but he's learnt to accept it. SS(now 13) has never stopped visiting. He loves being with us and doesn't agree with SD's attitude, which BM has always supported. BM also undermines SO every chance she gets - so to put a stop to it - SO just quit dealing with their dramas.

Fast forward 2 years later.. SD fights with BM non-stop. She has started cutting herself for attention (little scratches near her thumb). First time she did it, BM didn't call SO - SS13 did. SS13 also told SO that the first thing SD said was "tell Dad not to bother coming to see me 'cos I dn't wanna see him". More hurt for SO. Spoke to the Counsellor who said "don't do anything. Don't make any contact. This is an obviously negative attention seeking which should not be rewarded". It worked. Dammit it worked. SD was fine - she took off playing with her mates the next night and we didn't have any bulshit dramas from BM.

My advice? Tell your DH to let go. Your lives should not be affected by the toxic attitude of your SD and BM. Live your life to the fullest and don't let ANYONE judge you.