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Morning Time Cuddling

JD's picture

My fiance Angie practiced "co-sleeping" with her son Jason when she was with her ex, Tom for years. When I came into the picture we both talked about it and agreed it was time Jason sleep in his own bed (he's 5 and a half). While we slowly weened him into his own bed where he stays all night now, he still seems to have a need to come in our bed once the sun rises, which is around 6 a.m. I walk him back to his room at that point but then he comes back in at about 7:30 asking to come in our bed again, which, at that point, Angie allows. That's when I wake up, but if he'd be put back to sleep again at that point, I'd sleep with Angie until at least 9, 9:30. I hate having to get up so early on the weekends but I just don't feel comfortable with the three of us in the bed, so I get up. In addition to that, I also feel that whenever Jason is allowed in the bed, being that he has no concept of time as a child, he's essentially getting his way with wanting to go back to the co-sleeping routine. I feel like it's sets back the progress we made when he's allowed in, even though it's technically morning. (This isn't a step-dad thing, I just believe it's so important in relationships for adults have their morning time in bed together and I'd feel the same way if it was my own son or daughter trying to come in our bed).

As part of the new court-mandated visiting schedule, Angie has to send Jason to Tom to sleep over there every other weekend so I understand she misses Jason now and this is a bonding thing. She actually told me she "looks forward" to the morning time cuddling routine with her son but I hate being "kicked out of bed." I understand they both enjoy that but I just wish Angie could lay with Jason during the day or at any other time. Or at least if it could be worked out that Jason be walked back to his bed in the morning at least until I wake up (I'd only ask for another hour or so with Angie for our "alone time," is that wrong?) I feel bad whenever I suggest ways to remedy this problem because I know it's not really a problem for Angie. I've suggested "midnight shades," be hung in Jason's room which are room darkening shades that go under the blinds to give the illusion that it's the middle of the night long after the sun rises. Should I push for getting these shades or push to talk about how the whole morning time co-sleeping routine in general effects me (and effects us as a couple) or should I just accept it and get up when Jason comes in our bed and let them have their time?

LizzieA's picture

Tell Angie he is welcome to come in once you are up and about for the day, whenever that is. Jason needs to play quietly in his room until he sees or hears "the signal."
It's very reasonable. What if you are an early-morning "loving man"? You deserve your private time with your GF.

startingover2010's picture

my sd used to come into our bed in the middle of the night and i was the one putting her in bed again. i didnt feel comfy with her in the bed and as she gets older (she's 11 now) i think thats too old to snuggle with daddy. plus i want my time, since so much of the day is centered around the kids.

maybe you should go ahead with your plan with the shades and if she doesnt want that then tell her to figure something out

ennie's picture

My partner is a man who has two daughters. I have known them most of their lives, though have been with their dad two years. I am a woman. When my SD5 was 3 and 4, she woke in the middle of the night with bad dreams, especially on transition days. Her mom has borderline personality disorder, and mama's house is very stressful. I wake easier than my partner, so I would often put her back to bed or lie down with her while she went back to sleep. Now, she sleeps in her own bed most nights, then often wants to cuddle with us in the morning. My SD nine only wants to cuddle in the morning, and mostly only if she has a bad dream. I feel that she is getting a little old to cuddle with daddy in bed, though not all the time...sort of on the edge of pre-teendom, but still a little girl in times of stress.

This is surely different for stepmoms than for stepdads.
I feel comfortable with this level of contact for a couple of reasons. First, I am a woman and so cuddling with little girls does not raise so many eyebrows as this would for a man, especially a step-dad.

Second, their mom is unstable and I feel like they are reaching out for safe, female role models/caregivers to help things to feel cozy and safe, especially for SD5. I feel good doing this, and it meets a need they have. Their dad is very appropriate about physical boundaries with the girls, and is affectionate and nurturing without ever being "too close" or too tolerant of their wanting to climb on him. He is comfortable setting physical boundaries without making the kids wrong.

I have heard from many who feel this kind of cuddling with step kids is a bad idea, nut it would seem very mean to not cuddle a scared 4 year old, especially when she is having nightmares about mama threatening to kill her dad and step-mom...

I know that steps with SKIDS of mentally ill parents have different roles in skids lives than skids with normal parents, so this may not be generally applicable, but it seems to work for us. The kids rarely want to have a grownup to put them back in bed at night and rarely want to come into our bed at night, and we have been saying "no" to such requests lately, but offering for one of us to lie down with SD5 if she is having a hard time. So I see that this time of cuddling is coming to an end naturally, but it has felt normal and natural and has helped our bonding and comfort with each other.

Most Evil's picture

To me it almost sounds like she is using 'SS snuggle time' to push you away?

I agree that after you get up is fair, or another time of day, but early AM is for the adults only. Not that there is necessarily something going on, just SS needs to learn about boundaries and privacy, and so does DW?

"It's funny how dogs and cats know the inside of folks better than other folks do, isn't it?"
- Eleanor H. Porter (1868 - 1920), 'Pollyanna', 1912

JD's picture

Thanks for the advice all...I just feel bad like I'm being selfish even bringing this up to Angie because I knew from day one (and happily accepted) the fact that I'd never come before her son and I'd never want it to be that way. It's just I have real strong opinions on the importance of the bed adult time with your spouse (yes of course for making love, but just for many other things as well). I don't know if she sees it from my point of view. The thing is, Jason is very needy (especially early in the morning), and I'm not just talking about the emotional cuddling need. When he's fully up, he's ready to start the day! In my opinion that's all from the effects that our general society plays into the lives of kids in giving them sooooooo many options that they always need something to do--which in turn, shrinks the attention span. When I was five and a half (and I'm only 28 but I don't care if I sound old here), things were much different in 1986 than they are in 2009. I knew on Saturday and Sunday mornings that my parents stayed in bed until at least 10, and don't get me wrong, I was an early riser like Jason...but at 7 a.m., I'd wake up and be quiet as a mouse and go in the living room with my blanket and pillow and watch Saturday morning cartoons or listen to my record player until my parents woke up. I would never think to try and go in their room and always kept myself entertained (and even fixed myself my own bowl of cereal). But this wasn't just in the morning for me, I always was able to find things to do and never needed my parents to stimulate my mind or relieve my boredom. Compared to the stuff Jason has to play with now, my toys were so simple and antiquated yet I'd spend hours staying busy. (Sorry to ramble, that's all probably for another thread topic anyway.)

But anyway, I think I'm just gonna let things take their course and whatever Angie wants to do I'm going to go along with. I got too involved in the court case when she served her ex for child support (I made my opinions loudly known that I wanted her to seek full custody and just get him out of all our lives for good, but in retrospect that wasn't my place for involvement and I now realize that). I've also come to realize that certain ways of raising Jason may differ with my thoughts but again, she is the boy's mom and I have to respect that and come to terms with the fact that certain areas are not my place (at least not until we are married or have our own child together).

"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change...Courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference."

jojo71's picture

I love that you are so understanding about her bond with her son. However...I have a little trouble with your comment:
"I just feel bad like I'm being selfish even bringing this up to Angie because I knew from day one (and happily accepted) the fact that I'd never come before her son and I'd never want it to be that way."
I just don't agree with couples putting their children first, and maybe it's because my bio-kids are older now while my SD is only 8...maybe I don't see things as objectively as some. But I have a real issue with the idea of a married couple not putting EACH OTHER first...regardless of the circumstances. With so many marriages ending in divorce now, I can't help believe that the #1 reason for this is because each person is not putting the needs of his/her partner first. If you NEED alone time with your future wife, that is priority IMO. You getting this is NOT neglecting the needs of your SS...you are creating a happy and healthy relationship for your SS to model HIS future relationships after. If he grows up seeing that he (or anyone or anything) comes first, he is not going to value his relationships as he should...and the cycle continues.
Sorry...this is just my opinion, I respect that many others do not agree with this, but I do feel strongly about it.

JD's picture

That's an interesting take, jojo. See before Angie and I got together I was married and my ex-wife, Nancy never gave me the amount of affection I felt we both needed. I was raised to outwardly show love but my ex had somewhat of a cold side to her that I could never break. Me and Nancy never had kids but I always knew that the day I became a father, I'd show my child all the love in the world. Jason is a great, great kid and I embrace my role in his life. To me, there just should be a little bit of a boundary with the bedroom. I think it's all about having an equal balance. Angie came out of a seven year relationship with Tom, which ended for a lot of different reasons but Angie told me that he too, had that "barrier" up. Now Angie and Tom practiced a lot of the aspects of "attachment parenting" with Jason, so maybe that contributed somewhat to Angie and Tom not being as connected as they could have been. I don't know how for so many years, Tom shared a bed with Angie and Jason. I know Angie told me many times he'd actually get up and then go sleep in Jason's bed. I can't imagine that.

The good thing about all this is that Jason is sleeping through the night now, and we made so much progress with that, it's just this little tiny thing. If we could have Jason get over still needing to come in our bed in the morning, he'd be a totally independent sleeper. We'll see what happens.

"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change...Courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference."

teamventure09's picture

you are right. your spouse should come before the children in order of priority. my wife is way off base on this one. there are two neighbor kids and she told me that they come before me in priority and they're not even her kids.

Orange County Ca's picture

Your paragraph starting with "But anyway...." is the best thing you wrote. Stick to it. But there is no harm in getting more expert opinions on how long a kid should come into the room. I suspect he'll outgrow it in time with no aftereffects.

*********************

There's an exception to everything I say.

melis070179's picture

Honestly, I would leave it alone if its not until 7:30 and only every other weekend. It doesn't mean you have to get out of bed. I just have a hard time believing if it was your child that you would feel the same way? How about 1 morning of the weekend, and the other morning he is told its not time to get up yet and to go back to bed? I undertand you don't like, but she does, so there obviously has to be a compromise.

"I child proofed my whole house, but they STILL get in!"

JD's picture

Melis, I have very strong opinions on certain things when it comes to raising kids and I don't feel it's appropriate to "co-sleep" or allow "bed-sharing" past a certain age unless there are extreme circumstances (nightmares, etc). That's just how I was raised when I was growing up and plan to continue certain practices like that when I have a kid of my own. That, and just a few other different child-raising ideas in general me and Angie differ about, that's all I'm saying (not that mine are better or anything, it's just a style thing).

Orange County Ca, you make a lot of sense and yes you too are correct Melis...a compromise is what is best for this situation.

"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change...Courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference."

JD's picture

...Me and Angie had a brief talk this morning...Jason will be going to his dad's this Friday night for a sleepover and I told Angie to promise me her and I can stay in bed together until 10 o'clock on Saturday morning. I'm looking forward to that. Smile

"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change...Courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference."

luckykell's picture

My SD5 has coslept with BM and my boyfriend when they were together and continued to do so after the divorce. Similar to you, once I came into the picture boyfriend and I agreed that it was time for "Scooty" to sleep in her own bed like a big girl! I do not personally like cosleeping, but hey if thats a personal decision for the parents. We finally got Scooty into her own bed but she wouldn't stay b/c she gets scared. So now her bed is in our bedroom, and she still gets up in the morning and climbs into our bed. I have SVT, a heart condition, and not getting sleep at night will make it flair up, so that's a big reason as to why i'm wanting her in her own room. BM still sleeps with Scooty, but I think it is more of a comfort thing for BM than anything else. We finally sat down with BM and discussed this and we all agreed that within a year (since we know this takes time) we want her in her own bed. Good luck!!

"Live well, Love much, Laugh often."

JD's picture

Crayon, I'm the type of person who feels that young kids thrive the best when they have a set routine and schedule, not just for sleeping but for bathing, eating, TV...really all activities in the home. The way I see it, if you say to a child that "X and Y is done at this time and that time," it becomes ingrained in their head, and becomes an automatic thing. People (kids especially) are creatures of habit and when they know that for example, dinner time is at 6 o'clock, they become accustomed to it so they wouldn't beg (or even think to ask for that matter) to eat a hot fudge sundae at 5:30. I always knew that and my mom didn't always make things that I loved every single night, but I knew that that was dinner and there'd be no "alternate dinner" made for me later. If I knew that at my beckon call she'd cook me anything I wanted later in the night, I'd have no incentive to ever eat my dinner. If I wanted a snack before bed, like around 8 or so, I'd be offered a bowl of cereal or a piece of fruit. It's the same with knowing that right before bedtime is time to take a bath, not in the middle of the day at random just because it's "something to do." I have implemented all of these things into Jason's life and I think it's working great. It's not as strict as I'd prefer it to be, but we've come a long way. (And my only hope is that when Jason is visiting with his father all the things we are doing don't get set back, because in Tom's home there is no such structure like this).

All in all, I'm very happy we now have Jason on a set bedtime (he knows exactly when it is and actually asks to go to bed when the time comes). Kids become more comfortable when things are this way and respect you even more as an adult and parent. While I am not at all saying to run your house like the army or anything, you have to establish these simple things so they know kids just can't think they are going to eventually "get their way." When these practices are in place, no sort of battle will ever take place because the child will know that things are done a certain way and there will be no attempts made to alter that way. Before Jason's bedtime was set, it was always a huge, huge battle each night, filled with crying and tantrums and Angie being forced to go lay down in Jason's bed three and four times over the course of a good two hours before he'd finally doze off. And then he'd wake up six and seven times overnight. Now, like I said, he goes right into his room and sleeps all night, so it's just this one minor hump with the morning time routine that hopefully will eventually be broken.

In the meantime though, as with everything I am doing from here on out as a step-dad, I'm "treading lightly" so to speak, and not being too overbearing with my beliefs. Angie really has done an amazing job raising Jason the past five and a half years...he's a real great kid and I know her and I will be able to continue to raise him right.

"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change...Courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference."

JD's picture

Crayon, every issue from here on out I am super confident that me and Angie will be able to tackle together and be on the same page with. Tom has only regularly been seeing Jason now for about two weeks so it's too soon to say whether that will be for the best (short and long term) or ultimately detrimental to his overall development. I'm just hoping for the best with everything and looking to God for guidance.

"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change...Courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference."

Angel's picture

but, although my biokids (while I was married to their father) never slept in my bed (UNLESS THEY WERE SICK), they would wake up early & I got up to feed and entertain them so my husband could sleep in. Once I had 3 children my morning "snuggle time" with hubby was almost impossible....funny thing, I didn't mind tending to my children and never saw it as an imposition, I just got up and started the day. That's what moms do.

THE DARKENING SHADES ARE A GREAT IDEA! I should have done that!!!!

JD's picture

...Angel I agree if you do have multiple children and they are young it's tough for them all to "fend for themselves" and I would never fault you for "doing what moms do." You sound like a very involved mom who knows what she is doing. I would only suggest that although it may seem very hard...even if you set the kids up and then go back to bed with the hubby for a half hour once they are happily eating or watching their show, that would be very much appreciated by your husband. He may never ask for that (or even expect it) but for the long-term survival of your marriage (and this is a divorcee speaking), try and somehow establish some "husband and wife snuggle time." It would really enhance your relationship.

"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change...Courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference."

Angel's picture

That happened "cuddle time" when they got older. (they were each one year apart)
BUT then soccer started! For all three of them. Our weekends were XTREMELY full. AND I LOVED IT.

There is a lot of "selflessness" & "stern flexibility" when dealing with kids. I am less of all of that at my age---glad I had it when I was young!

You are absolutely right about routine---kids need it and thrive with it. They feel "safe" with routine and little rituals. But, that is where "stern flexibility" needs to be the rule in unusual circumstances.

JD's picture

Angel, to me, again, it's not about running your house like it's the military but there should just be certain things that are done at certain times because of certain reasons. Everything has a cause and effect, and much more positive comes when things are structured and set, as opposed to when they aren't. That's not my opinion, that's just a proven age-old fact. It's a "passive aggressive" discipline technique that actually enables you as a parent to never yell or even have to show discipline once these few basic routines are in place and happily respected by the little ones. Jason actually runs down our daily "gameplan" to me now very eagerly each morning, and I've never had to raise my voice once with him.

"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change...Courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference."

Wicked.Step.Monster's picture

but I have yet to know of a family that it works for after children are past the age of maybe 7 or 8.... I'm thinking kind of like Angel is... once they start t-ball and little league, boy scouts, etc.... that routine usually gets kissed goodbye. During our busy ball seasons we're doing good to get out of work, hit a fast food drive-thru and zoom to whichever school or field we're playing at... then back home late at night. Sports seem to be starting younger and younger too.

JD's picture

Well extracurricular activities and sports and all that become part of their own routine in itself (set practices, games, things like that)...they are perfect examples of healthy, organized activities as opposed to just "hanging out on the corner." Then it's implementing your own household gameplan around those (like homework must be completed before practice, etc.) With time and planning (making charts and lists helps), it can be all worked out so at least some sense of order is still in place.

And to me, (this goes back to the way my brother and I were raised), the balanced, set dinner thing still will always be my top priority, no matter how hectic life gets. I will do whatever I have to do to make sure that a home-cooked meal is prepared from scratch every single night and we all eat as a family. I personally condemn "drive-thrus." Angie ate fast food twice in the past eight and a half months since she has been with me. Both times were on her break from work on the few rare occasions I didn't have a chance to pack her her lunch (which I usually do every day). Jason ate McDonalds a few times too, but certainly NEVER on my watch. I can't wait to start packing his lunchbox when kindergarten starts.

"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change...Courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference."

Wicked.Step.Monster's picture

but certainly not when they hit jr high and high school. If you can figure out how to do that when your SS is that age then you need to write a book on it! Schedules are insane at that age (perfectson stb17) is running in 15 different directions. It is very very rare that we all get to sit down and eat dinner together, even in the summer. Sometimes you just have to wing it!

JD's picture

Well then I guess my mother was a miracle worker because she did the laundry, housecleaning, packed lunches for me and my dad every day, made gourmet dinners every night and still always held a part-time job. And I played every sport and was always being driven to birthday parties, or over friends houses and things like that. Then my brother was born and she continued on with the same routine. There was always a lot of help from her sisters (my aunts) and my both sets of grandparents, and granted I was there to help with things a lot when my brother came along (I'm ten years older than him)...but she always ran a flawless household. I hope I can be half as amazing as she was as a parent (and of course, still is.)

"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change...Courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference."

Wicked.Step.Monster's picture

and that you get to continue to be a stay at home stepdad (I think that's what I read?) But most don't begin to have that luxury... and yes it IS a luxury to have one parent home. But when families have dads working full time, moms working full time, and you throw 2 or even 3 or 4 kids in the mix then there's just no way to have the kind of structure you're talking about. Not when everyone works. Doesn't happen. And I promise you that straying from routine doesn't hurt a kid. I have a very well rounded, smart, young man and he got that way eating Mickey D's on the sofa and cake for breakfast on many many occasions.

All I'm saying is that structure can be good but not having strict structure probably won't be detrimental to your boy. Biggrin

JD's picture

I here ya Wicked, there are many kids that are perfectly adjusted and well-rounded with Mickey D's and cake for breakfast. But I'm going by not only my own experiences growing up, but also the statistical facts pertaining to the thousands of kids nowadays misdiagnosed with attention deficit disorder...kids who are extremely disrespectful towards their parents...the obesity epidemic among children today...I can go on and on about the problems in 2009 that can be directly attributed to just doing a few different things here and then when raising a child. I mean none of these things existed when I was growing up. But the thing is, the '80s might as well have been the '60s for me, because I was raised very old-school and my parents made it a point to have immediate and extended family around me at all times to help maintain a sense of structure, and to perpetuate rituals and practices that worked for the previous generations. I was raised in a very conservative, Catholic, Italian-American environment, and no matter how crazy things got, I always felt a sense of safety and familiarity with our customs and belief systems and traditions. We were all always on the same page. If more families today (especially families with stepkids) had that way of thinking, the statistics would turn towards that type of environment as being the "right" kind of atmosphere to grow up in. I know we will never have "Ozzie & Harriett" again, but things in today's society have just gotten to such an extreme towards the other direction that that's why people have so many daily issues in the home (and need forums like these to vent on). And it all comes down to a lack of communication within one's own family to be perfectly honest with you. I believe so strongly is communicating and discussing EVERYTHING all the time, and having involvement and input from extended families on such matters, and that has come as a little intimidating with Angie. The thing is, when you do that, you retain a stronger ability to rely on those family members to help you when you need them.

See, I knew Angie was a "packaged deal" when I got involved with her because she has a son, but I too am a packaged deal myself--and that package is my very large family, and this certain mentality we have. This is not how it was when Angie was with her ex. (I mean, her ex's family was involved, but it was usually in a negative way she tells me). My parents and grandmother and cousins treat Jason as if he is their own flesh and blood and I do think that kind of scares Angie at times, because she is not used to that. But that's just how my family is and it's only beneficial to Jason, as opposed to the cold environment he gets when he is in his father's home. I was with a cold person for years (my ex-wife), who made me basically disassociate myself from my own family to a point where I became brainwashed and cold myself, and never shared anything with them. I went along with everything my ex said, and was so disconnected to everything. I will never let that happen again, and I told Angie this. I told Angie if me and her are to be husband and wife, we must talk about everything concerning us as a couple, concerning our children, and even our own personal matters. We may not agree on everything, but I just think it's so important to have all parties "in the loop."

"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change...Courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference."

Wicked.Step.Monster's picture

matters to your extended family? Or did I totally read that wrong? :?

Angel's picture

You sound like a competent and caring parent. Again, your son is a very very lucky child. Sounds like you're doing the right thing to me. Stories like this are wonderful to hear.

JD's picture

Thank you Angel. The routines and other things I brought into Jason's life have really helped all of us in a lot of ways, and me and Angie also have been establishing our own little rituals (a weekly "date night," at our favorite restaurant and a monthly night to go out dancing to our favorite club to name a few). The little things like that which I know to expect give me a peace of mind that things are balanced...

I am confident everything is going to work out for us all. If I wasn't, I would have broken up with Angie long ago and found a girl who was exactly like me. And what's the fun in that? Don't get me wrong, me and Angie are alike in a lot of ways but we are different in a lot of ways too. But that's ok. I know I can be a little over dramatic with things at times, but I've come a long way in not shoving my opinions down her throat. It's all about an understanding that we both are passionate about things, and a mutual respect for one another. I'm a lot less tense and uptight about things I can't control, and I apologized for being over the top with certain recent things that have been occurring. I never want Angie to feel like I am trying to change her, or the way she raises her son. And it's not like I am the type of person who must feel like they are "in control" of everything at all times. It's just I want to be able to talk about stuff, even if it doesn't go particularly my way I am okay with that, I just like to have a give and take and learn about why she may feel a certain way about something. Whether I agree or disagree with that is not really the point...the point is that we can talk about it.

"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change...Courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference."

JD's picture

You read correct Wicked...I mean not every single matter, but I'm very close to my cousins and stuff like that and can talk to them about anything (but will always check with Angie first just to make sure it's not too intimate of a matter). All I meant really is I believe in communicating on things as a rule with the people you love and who helped raise you...See I learned that a person can either be caring and involved and always talking about stuff, or you can be totally detached and want nothing to do with anyone or anything. At least, that's the viewpoint and outlook I got from my last screwed up relationship. I do admit I need to find more of a middle ground sometimes.

But like I said, communication is key and that brings us back to the thread topic that started this all...Angie and I had a discussion this evening and she said that she is going to make it a point that at 6 a.m. during the workweek from now on, me and her are going to have "our time." And this weekend we are going to sleep late on Saturday and then sit down and write up a goal list and a gameplan on what we hope to do in the near future. This really works. We actually made a list like that a few months back of 10 things we wanted to do (professionally, personally, together as a couple, and with Jason). We accomplished them all.

"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change...Courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference."