So Peaceful
SS13 went home one week ago today. BM never sent the email, blowing up on DH for SS' accusations. Following the visit, DH and I had a long conversation about what our future with SS is heading towards and ways we can reduce his impact in our home, while raising our kids away from that toxicity.
DH decided that he was done calling SS twice weekly, as it tends to be disruptive to our weekly schedule, we are planning a lot around those calls, and SS really doesn't say much anyways. DH understood why it was important when SS was younger, but now that he is older, it's having the opposite effect. DH decided he will only call on Sunday nights going forward. If SS wants more contact than that, he has DH's phone number and can call or text DH whenever he feels like it (DH hasn't heard from SS at all since he left). So DH tried this new plan last night, and after a week of no contact with SS, the call only lasted 9 minutes and that was with DH doing all of the talking. After the call, DH said that solidified his decision to only call once per week.
Otherwise, things have been peaceful since SS' departure. We are back to our normal routine and DD3 is doing fine without having him around. I had therapy last week to process all the events from our visit and feel a lot better. Now we can focus on enjoying the rest of our summer.
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You are giving me flashbacks
My skids PASed out at ages stb 11, stb 9 and a year later YSS stb7 due to a guerilla scorched earth PAS warfare campaign on the BM and her family's side which included steering the youngest one away at a school play so he wouldn't see us attending-- thus cementing her narrative that we couldn't bother to show. And many many other tricks, deceptions and bald face lies that your BM and all the other ones have pulled on this site.
Before they all called CPS on us and lied their behinds off with the coaching of the Girhippo, who at the time worked for CPS (conflict of interest), I used to do mental backflips seeing the back of their heads drive away up my driveway. back to the mothership.
The peaceful atmosphere came pouring in. They stopped calling about 2 years before that and when Chef would call of course it was on speaker phone with the Girhippo listening to every word and coaching them through their monosyllabic answers.
I wish I had more encouraging words, but the PAS on the part of custodial BMs works 99.9% of the time. Especially when the bm's new partner joins in. In our case, StepDaddyBigBucks didn't get too involved but he did enjoy the surrogate father title quite a bit.
This kid is getting older and
This kid is getting older and the twice weekly scheduled calls with him are probably logistic issues on both sides. The kid has a phone.. what I would suggest is that your DH should try to have one actual call a week.. BUT.. I think he needs to ramp up his other contact with his son a bit.. via texting...
Not overwhelming where anyone could say it's intrusive. But one text to his kid daily shouldn't be a huge time suck for anyone.. and keeps his dad as at least a mental presence every day. I am talking brief text.. and that's it... whether he responds or not. If he responds and the response merits DH responding back.. then maybe another in the same day.. but not so much that anyone (BM/GF) would see it as intrusive.
Texts along the lines of.
Morning, SS, hope you have a great day at school, DAD.
or Afternoon SS, I know it was hot there.. hope practice wasn't too hard.
Hi SS, got any great plans for the weekend?
Hey SS, saw you got an A on your science test.. that's great.. you must have really studied for that.
Basically, microcommunications.. that his son can get and have an idea his dad's thinking about him... and yes.. I realize texts work both ways.. but dad being a steady presence.. whether the kid does a lot of responding.. it isn't any sweat of his dad.. and it might be at least some showing that his dad does care. (I know he does.. and is hurt but. you know what I mean).
Yes, DH has been texting SS
Yes, DH has been texting SS in all the ways you outlined - good luck at your game, have a good day at school, saw x sports team won, etc. They are typically unacknowledged by SS outside of a thumbs up, which is fine. DH still texts. He just doesn't want to continue these big productions of multiple weekly phone calls that require coordination and scheduling with BM and disrupt our stuff, only for DH to do all the talking and last 10 minutes. He will call once per week now, every Sunday to ensure he is still calling and will supplement with texts. DH also sends cards and small gifts (gift cards, books, and candy) for Easter, SS' birthday, Halloween, etc. if we don't have visitation during those times. He will continue to do that as well.
Then, I think that is all he
Then, I think that is all he can do.. as a teen.. SS's schedule is likely to be more complicated anyway... so dropping the forced voice call.. or at least one of them shouldn't be a big deal if he is maintaining a virutal presence in some other way occasionally.
Sounds like a healthy
Sounds like a healthy approach to me. Your DH is being the cool, laid back parent who keeps in touch while expecting nothing in return. He's there if SS needs him. It might take done time but all is not lost. SS might just get sick of having his entire life managed by his mothers. I think they're in for a helluva shock when he decides to rebel (as most teens do). No matter how much GF does for him, once he has a taste of freedom, she will be in his rear view mirror.
An unpopular but truthful opinion, strong dose of common sense
To a certain extent, the old saying holds true:
“What you chase will run from you. What you run from will chase you.”
There’s wisdom in it. When you pursue something—be it love, approval, or even peace—with too much intensity, it often slips further from reach. The more desperately you grasp, the more elusive it becomes. Like trying to catch smoke with your hands, the act of chasing can create resistance, not closeness.
Sometimes, the key isn’t pursuit, but stillness. Detachment. Letting things come to you in their own time.
My DH, of all people, came across this Youtube video which really helped him. Disclaimer, the message is common sense - the delivery might be too spiritual for some folks, but still excellent advice. IMHO, any person who alienates a child from a parent IS a personality disorder! I DO agree with Dr. Clarke, on that!
“Stop Chasing Your Alienated Child”
—From The Narcissist Un-mommed Me Video Series by Dr. David Clarke
This is part three in a series based on my new video course, The Narcissist Unmommed Me: How to Fight Back and Win Your Kids Back. The response to this series has been overwhelming—because it's speaking diectly to the deep pain many moms and dads feel after losing their children to the influence of a narcissist.
If you're dealing with parental alienation, you already know how devastating it is. You’ve probably tried everything to reconnect with your child.
You've pleaded,
explained,
texted,
emailed.
You've chased.
And that’s the problem.
Stop Chasing. Start Winning.
The natural reaction to losing someone precious—especially your own child—is to pursue them. To chase. It feels like love, like commitment. But when it comes to a child who has been brainwashed by a narcissist, chasing does not work. In fact, it makes everything worse.
But here’s the good news: You can stop today—and start healing.
Let’s break this down into two core truths:
When You Chase a Child Who Rejects You, You Push Them Further Away.
Think about it from your child’s perspective. You’ve been alienated. The narcissist has filled their head with lies about you.
Now you’re texting them, writing long emails, sending birthday gifts.
What do they do?
They pull away even more. They roll their eyes. They get angry.
Why?
Every call, every message, every attempt to reconnect gets twisted and handed over to the narcissist:
“Look what she sent me now. Can you believe this?”
It feeds the lie.
It fuels your child’s rage.
It strengthens the narcissist’s grip.
2. When You Stop Chasing, You Regain Your Power—And Shift the Dynamic.
Now imagine this:
You stop. You go silent. You don’t grovel. You don’t explain. You walk away with dignity.
Suddenly, the game changes.
Your child:
Without you reacting, there’s nothing to spin.
No dramatic texts to mock.
No desperate voicemails to ridicule.
Instead, silence.
Calm.
Strength.
Your child begins to wonder:
“Why isn’t she fighting anymore?”
“Why isn’t she begging for me back?”
“Was everything I believed about her really true?”
The toxic fog begins to lift.
What Happens Next?
The narcissist loses control. With you out of the picture, the child becomes the new target. The praise turns to criticism. The manipulation intensifies. Your child gets a front-row seat to what you endured.
And guess what?
They start to see it.
They begin to remember:
They’ll never see that truth if you’re chasing them. But when you stop? When you truly let go?
You open the door for them to return—not out of guilt or obligation—but from truth and free will.
Let Me Be Clear:
Not chasing isn’t the same as giving up.
This is a tactical retreat, not surrender.
You're not abandoning your child.
You're fighting smarter.
I disagree with this to some
I disagree with this to some extent. Sure.. chasing and prostrating yourself for your kid... especially an ADULT kid is futile and not likely to be well recieved.. especially if that child has actually TOLD you to back off.. has refused visits etc....
All kids can be a bit jerky to their folks with responding and communicating.. I don't think that's necessarily grounds for the parent to stop showing interest.. and there IS a difference betweek an intrest and wooing/chasing.
A simple daily text.. not asking "why don't you call".. "why don't you love me... I love you.. miss you.. wahhhh" "mommy is so sad when she doesn't hear from you" etc..
A "hey X, how was your day" level of singular communication.. no follow up.. no .. did you get my text.. no pestering about coming for visitation (if that has been an issue). Just a simple.. "i'm your parent.. and I still have interest in you as my child".. (this is just for minor kids.. adults.. I might do some reachout text or message once a monthish... but if your adult kid tells you to back off.. that's kind of a different issue".
And birthday's holidays.. should not necessarily go ignored.. but they shouldn't be indulgent fests of gift giving.. a card and a modest gift for a minor kid that isn't coming to see you or is being Pas'ed is more than enough.
Because throwing in the towel with the minor kid.. that is noticed.. and it doesnt' matter that it is reciprocal.. the kid sees the parent's shunning as proof that their own estrangement is justified..
And.. yeah.. the kid may roll their eyes in the moment.. but at the end of they day.. they will be able to remember that even when they were being a kind of jerk of a kid.. that their parent didn't turn their back on them.
So.. chasing.. trying to beg and buy affection.. no.. but cutting off communication.. again.. no to that.. I think the adult parent has the obligation to try just a bit more than that... even if it seems to not net much progress..
once kids are adults.. it's not the same.. and dropping a rope at that point is much more fine.. and in some totally extreme PAS cases when a kid is a teen it might come to that.. but only a handful of cases on this site have risen to that level.. (like the poster who's kid refused any contact with dad.. wouldn't visit.. EVER.. and he was a teen and lived elsewhere.. there was no point for them to "try")
Hug!
Ah, ESMOD!
Ah, ESMOD!
You continue to be my heroine. Your insights and plain, common sense give me hope.
I agree with this chase and
I agree with this chase and run theory, that it's a thing. I've seen it play out in many scenarios of people of all different ages and situations. I've witnessed it. Right now it's happening with my mother in law and her daughter. It's clear as day. Chasing doesn't work. I agree that chasing an alienated child won't be productive. I tend to have the opinion of reaching out periodically and then holding back and waiting for movement in between from the other side.
You had me ad "Start winning".
Though I am not one to stop. I am one to confront and destroy, over, and over, and over again. They wanna play stupid games, I will make sure they win stupid prises. FAFO is more my style in dealing with this kind of thing.
Grab the kid and the PASing parent by the proverbial scruff of the neck, scrub their nose firmly in the stench they create while swatting them on the ass. Lather, rinse, repeat.
Make their result pain. Then escalate that pain in line with the lesson on the facts and highlighting the toxic crap the toxic side perpetrates. The goal IMHO has to be for the kid to face the facts and have their nose scrubbed in what the PASing parent/side is perpetrating.
Rags, I love your no-nonsense
Rags, I love your no-nonsense approach to life and dealing with Steplife!
I have to keep it simple with those types. They are not complex
So I do not treat them with any complexity. I keep their lives as they impact mine simple. Be reaonable, or suffer. I'm not sure how to make it any more simple for them.
There is a however. I struggle with some guilt that maybe my son has struggles at least in part because of my black and white perspective in raising him and in dealing with the SpermClan and my ILs. I have no clear reason for that, just concerns.
My SO just decided this, that
My SO just decided this, that he is not going to call or text the kids daily. SD has now graduated HS and SS will be 17. He is exhausted with it. He does all of the talking and he feels that they just entertain the call in case they need something from him. This is a tactic that BM taught them. We know this because SS has said it I. The past. He literally told SO that BM makes him talk to my SO because she can't do it alone. But I do not trust that SO will keep it up. He constantly backslides. But he has said it has been a relief not feeling like he "has to " call the kids daily.
That's how DH feels. He feels
That's how DH feels. He feels that the relationship is so one-sided because BM has told SS his entire life that it is DH's job to maintain the relationship and that nobody matters but her and GF. I truly think, at this point, SS only has a relationship with us to get stuff - money, trips, etc. SS thinks to text and FaceTime BM and GF a million times a day, over the dumbest stuff, but never thinks to text or call DH and DH pointed that out to SS multiple times this summer. DH is done chasing SS multiple times a week, done doing all the talking, and done busting his butt to maintain the relationship 100%. SS can meet him 50/50 or this will all peeter out and SS will cease to have a relationship with DH into adulthood. DH is preparing himself for whatever outcome because he has already said, he spent the last 13 years fighting every day for SS and he isn't wasting the rest of our lives, our daughters' childhoods, etc. yearning for a relationship with SS that hasn't happened and isn't going to happen.
When SS was younger, DH knew it was his responsibility due to SS' age, but this kid isn't so much a kid anymore and he needs to learn that relationships are a two-way street. DH will reduce to a once per week call, the occasional text, and birthday cards when SS isn't here, but that's it. We are done fighting so hard for this.
I think it’s
a good thing that he's limiting the text messaging, too. While I understand the *idea* that maintaining regular contact has value, my youngest, who was a teenager at the time, was annoyed by his father's daily emails (pre-texting era) during their estrangement. He felt it was just another manifestation of his father's lack of concern for his feelings. He needed space and he wasn't getting it. And he was truly glad when it stopped. He was seeing a therapist at the time who encouraged me to tell his father to back off for the sake of their future relationship. His dad listened to me on this because it came from the therapist.
I could see not getting the daily emails was like a load off his back. I think it might feel that way for your SS. The situation is different because my ex was a really crappy father but your SS is under so much pressure to reject his father that he has to make stuff up to please BM and GF. If he doesn't have anything to report maybe the pressure will die down.
It is definitely one sided.
It is definitely one sided. The only time they reach out first is when they are about to need something. I see it but I think SO sometimes puts his blinders on and wants to think they are being nice. Like right now SD is being a little nicer and I am sure it is because we have not given her her graduation gift. She stopped at our house and the first thing she said was that BM wants to know the date we are doing her graduation dinner. There is no need for BM to know that. All it is is for the cash grab from my SO family. After that day we will she how much contact there is. And SS wants to be on a better travel team and SO and BM both said no but BM makes the decisions , it could change. If SO keeps his word and does not contribute to a new team I am expecting SS to be even less concerned with SO. SO just needs to understand but I guess it is hard for a parent to let them alone. I just know SO seems more relaxed now that he is not contacting them every day. And the reason being is probably because it was like a chore rather then something he enjoyed.
That's a Healthy Way to Live!
Kudos to your dear husband for his steady, rational mind and common-sense approach. Wishing you both peace and clarity as you move forward!
Good riddance is a viable choice when necessary to protect your
Good riddance is a viable choice when necessary to protect your own family.
I know this is hard on all of you. However, it certainly appears to be the best choice to protect all of you.
Odds are SS is a lost cause due to his unfortunate two toxic mom's household in his nearly full time life with BM and GF.
You and DH take care of your marriage, each other, and your LOs.
100% agree here. Ever since
100% agree here. Ever since SD15 took her belongings on a whim and went to BMs, DH has been MUCH less stressed (me too). He isn't walking on eggshells, wondering what we will be accused of next. Isn't worrying about if SD15 will have one of her explosions and start yelling/slamming doors. Isn't worried about if BM starts blowing up his phone with text messages. Not being on edge 24/7 has brought our household a lot of peace currently. Fingers crossed it stays this way.
Unfortunately distance and an infrequent visitation schedule
even a quality parent has little chance of countering a noxious CP and salvaging a kid from the cesspool of a team of PASing partners in the CP household.
Distance was in conjuntion with a strong team of equity life partners focused on raising a COD to be a quality person in spite of the toxic side, a major advantage.
Sadly, this kid is doomed due to the balance in the other direction in CastleJJ and her DH's case. Their own children are better off with limited exposure to the degrading quality that SS-13 is sinking into due to his overexposure to the Harpy squad. It is sad, though it is far more likely than not inevitable.
The experiences of so many STalkers is far more proof than neccessary to predict the outcome for this victim of a toxic CP partnership.