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Violent teen issues

KaziJ790's picture

New here and hoping to get some advice regarding Violent prone SS14. SS14 has been Diagnosed with ADHD and multiple mood disorders since he was 6. Since he was in preschool SS14 has been known for over the top tantrums over minor things which can result in violent outbursts. SS14 has gotten better at controlling himself at school BUT gotten worse at home when with us. Below is what happened over the weekend....

SS14 and DH were playing video games on the floor and SS14  Accidentally spilled some of his water he was drinking on the carpet. DH wanted SS14 to move the water some place else but SS14 refused saying it's only water. At this point I asked SS14 again to move the water as I don't want anything spilled on the rug. At this point SS14 started Rudely arguing with me saying I can't tell him what to do with his water. DH tried to move SS14 water and SS14 flipped out. At this point DH called SS14 a brat and walked away. SS14 immediately jumped up and attacked DH crying/screaming he could kill DH if he wanted to and slapping DH multiple times hard across the face. SS14 than ran into the other room crying and refused to calm down until DH Apologized for calling SS14 a brat. This is NOT the first time SS14 has hit DH in a rage over something I would have considered small. 
 

SS14 is under the care of a Psychiatrist and social worker. Thoughts on this???? Those dealing with kids with mental illness does this get better once they get out of the teen ages? How come SS14 is better at school but seems to lose control in the home setting?

tog redux's picture

Um - your DH apologized to him for parenting him, after SS attacked and hit him? Did he get any consequences? Were the police called? Was he taken to the hospital for evaluation?

I'm in the child mental health field, and the rule of thumb is that kids who do better in school do so because there is more structure and consistency, and that there is a parenting issue in the home.

Without knowing his history it's hard to say if he'll grow out of it, but probably not. It may become true bipolar disorder or conduct disorder. But if he does better in school, then there is a major parenting problem going on - and this story is a good example of it.  DH waited until he had spilled the drink to make him move it (why is there no rule about it - we don't start playing if you have a drink on the floor), called him a brat and then apologized to SS after he attacked him. 

KaziJ790's picture

We have a friend who "called the police" when he found out his teen was stealing money from him and refused to Amit it and got nasty. Know what happened to this kid? NOTHING! But our friend got Reprimanded by the Family Court judge for "calling the police on his POOR minor child". Then made to go to therapy with this brat where the therapist told my friend basically he is a terrible father and he's to blame for kids behavior as he MUST have done something wrong to make his kid do this. 
 

Not sure if it's a screwed up state we live in BUT kids are NEVER to Blame for anything in the eyes of the family court. So this being said no we did not call the police because it would be DH who would be the one to get Consequences NOT SS14

tog redux's picture

OK fine - but why no consequences from DH? He's rewarding the bad behavior. 

Exjuliemccoy's picture

Physical violence and threatening to kill his dad puts things on on an entirely different level. Tell your H that you WILL be calling the police if he son attacks either of you again.

I could not cope in such an environment. Have you considered leaving, or placing SS in a therapeutic group home?

justmakingthebest's picture

Why didn't you call the police?  I have a SS who is on the spectrum and am told after every visit that if he ever becomes violent to call 911 and have him taken in for a psych hold. Your SS cannot rage on you or your husband like that. It isn't safe for anyone. What if he had been in the kitchen and there was a knife. If he is that unstable you have to make better choices for your own safety. 

BPDHell's picture

This will not get better and will probably get worse. As Tog Redux pointed out, the reason for the differences in behavior between home and school are likely structure, boundaries, and consequences. Problem is, parenting these kids is hard and requires staying on top of things and not letting bad behavior slide. In the real world, when the SS physically attacks someone, he will have to deal with the police. He needs to start understanding now what the world will be expecting of him, while the price he pays is smaller, because in a very few short years he will be looking at jail. MY SS just did a few weeks in jail for assault and theft and he's still homeless - even though there's a program that will pay for an apartment for him, because now that he has a criminal record, he can't get approved for an apartment! Providing rules, structure, expectations, and consequences now, while you still have some control on the situation, can help him develop some of the skills he will need to function in the real world. Or it could be too late. I hope it's not too late.

ndc's picture

I wouldn't hesitate to call the police for violence. That's quite different from using the police to teach your kid a lesson. This kid just learned that tantrums/violence works and he has even more power over you and your H than he thought he did. Imagine that - you disobey, flip out and hit dad, and HE apologizes to YOU.  Powerful stuff, and reinforcing bad behavior.

Rumplestiltskin's picture

Does your SS have clear rules and expectations? Is bad behavior punished and good behavior rewarded? At the *very* least, was he grounded from his video games afterward, even for a little while, or allowed to play again? It's like when a kid is in a store and throws a tantrum because they want something, and the parent gives them what they want. The kid learns that the way to be rewarded is to behave badly. 

KaziJ790's picture

Reason why you ask...because SS14 will flip a nut like he did but it would be way worse. DH did Threaten to take away the video games and that's when SS14 told DH he would kill him if he did. Would he? Doubtful BUT SS14 would definitely go ape shit on DH and also start breaking things as he has done in the past. When these "issues" are brought up to SS's  psychiatrist there is NO mention of consequences just change/increase of medication and MORE therapy

Rumplestiltskin's picture

I think you've identified the problem. This training starts from a young age. First, a kid has to know what is expected. What is "good" behavior? To a young child, good behavior is what gets a good reaction or a reward. Bad behavior is what gets a bad reaction, or a punishment. That's how they learn. Your SS has 14 years of screwed-up training.

I don't know if you can undo 14 years of opposite training. And the trainers, your husband and BM, would have to be retrained as well. It sounds like your SS needs a counselor or therapist, not just a psychiatrist. It's my understanding that the psychiatrists, who are medical doctors, mostly focus on disease and medication.

Not to say your SS isn't also bipolar or having some kind of mental illness, but lots of people have mental illness and all but the very worst can be treated to be mostly functional members of society. They *can* be, anyway, but many aren't. I think at this point your SS needs some kind of residential treatment or a therapeutic boarding school or military-like academy. Your DH needs parenting classes. It sounds like he lives in fear of his own son. 

KaziJ790's picture

SS14 has a Social worker that he sees for talk therapy twice a month AND sees a school Psychologist since he was about 6 years old. Again these "professionals" in my opinion are half the problem. They never talk about Punishment or consequences just increasing/ changing meds when SS14 acts out and adding more talk therapy. 

Rumplestiltskin's picture

They can medicate him all they want but it won't help until he learns how to act at home and in society. 

advice.only2's picture

Have they really never talked about that? Or can they see that DH doesn't implement any rules and structure when is comes to his son, so they don't even bother, they just offer different meds?

Kind of like a doctor who sees an overweight patient all the time and no longer offers up diet and exercise to help treat the issues the overweight person has, they just give them meds for all the issues, because they realize they can't change the persons behaviors since they don't want to do the work to change.

notarelative's picture

The emphasis of the school psychologist is school behavior. While the school psychologist may touch on behavior out of school that is not his primary purpose. 

Has DH sat down with the psychiatrist and detailed the behavior and threats? Has DH spoken to the social worker, detailed the behavior and threats, and asked for specifics on what to do? (And then done it and reported back on its effects) Has DH told any of the professionals working with his child how bad the behavior is at his home? Sometimes you need to be the squeaky wheel.

justmakingthebest's picture

Once again... SS threatened to kill his father after violently attacking him and you and your husband see no reason to call the police???

 

tog redux's picture

Psychiatrists are all about meds nowadays. Find a better therapist that will help with the parenting piece. He needs structure and consequences, including outside supports other than the therapist. 

CajunMom's picture

This is not a "he said/she said," as your cited incident with the friend, over money being stolen. One of you SHOULD have called the police. At 14, he's strong enough as it is. Add in his mental illnesses and that can be strength untold. I worked on a psyhe ward before. I know. Also, your SS THREATENED to kill your DH. Those two things definitely warranted a 9-1-1 call, regardless of the outcome. You need a record.

And I'll agree with the "structure" concept. The school demands structure. If he continues to act out there, trust me, school officials will have him removed and put into some kind of alternative setting. He knows that. The problem is YOUR home and zero boundaries and discipline from your DH. 

I'd start locking my bedroom door at night. No way would I trust this kid in my home.

advice.only2's picture

I don't know how much you can do with this issue, it appears your DH has set a precedence with his son and will allow the abuse to continue because he doesn't want to change his approach to parenting. Instead I will offer this:
Nanny cams through out the house, prosecutors can use any of the recorded evidence just in case anything happens to you or DH at the hands of your SS.
Please don't keep any firearms in the vicinity that SS can get his hands on and go out and shoot up a school or something.
Consider writing up a will that excludes SS from getting any of your assets or money.

justmakingthebest's picture

Very good advice with the Nanny cams and firearms.

I would add that knives need to be kept in a locked drawer. When they are used they should be immediately hand washed and returned. No sitting in the sink or dishwasher. 

simifan's picture

How does your DH see this turing out when your SS is as big or goddess forbid bigger and stronger then your DH? At 14, my DS was 5'11" and towered over me @ 5'3"... what if you were the victim? I am a mental health professional. This situation is clearly untenable. Your DH needs to make changes ASAP or your SS will be in jail. He needs to be on the phone today calling the psychiatrist, therapist, social worker - asking for help, making a plan when this occurs again. SS needs to know what will happen if this occurs again - police called, 302 hold, etc.

You need to stand your ground. SS does not return without a mental health plan in place, cameras in the home, & a panic button for yourself. Please be safe. 

tog redux's picture

Exactly, do they ask for help with parenting? Do they let them know that he gets violent at home? Have they sought other services in community for support?

KaziJ790's picture

Again they just seem to think it goes with the Territory of dealing with a child with a mental illness.  When DH tells them about SS14 violent behavior they reEvaluate SS14 medication and want SS14 to do more talk therapy. Oh my favorite is when they try and point the blame at DH asking if there has been any tension between DH/BM or changes in our household that could have set SS14 off. Really?? How about maybe the kid is just taking Advantage of his "mental illness" to get away with being a spoiled brat?? How come this high paid professionals never see it this way??

shellpell's picture

If that's the case, save yourself and leave, because you're not safe with that little psychopath around.

futurobrillante99's picture

What this child needs is to have the police called every time he makes threats of violence. He needs to get his name in the system and your husband his father needs to have him put in the psych ward on a 72 hour hold. Once they have them in the hospital they need to have his meds reevaluated and possibly take him off of all meds and re-calibrate them. An inpatient stay of a couple weeks as he's going through puberty and becoming a man is not unreasonable. But if you call the police and he's on their radar He'll have a history of this behavior just in case you need to put him into a live-in program

justmakingthebest's picture

ABSOLUTELY.

This is what my SS's therapist has told us over and over again. Especially during med changes. If he ever gets violent with us or himself call 911, do not hesitate. A new psychiatrist at the hospital might be better for him than who he is seeing and might be able to get you going in the right direction. 

Smashytalk's picture

Let this occurrence be an example of what guidelines the social worker suggests. If they want to adjust his meds, that's cool, but now you can develop a clear plan with social worker on what you need to do if/when SS becomes aggressive again and tell him "your behavior was out of line. If you act like that again, xyz will occur " which i hope calling the police and some sort of immediate inpatient care becomes part of the plan. Others have already said-- in the real world this would cause him when arrested, now is the time to start consequences before he really hurts or kills someone.

Rags's picture

Time for a TAZER, pepper spray, zip tie restraints, and a full suite of nanny cams in your home becomming immediately at hand self defense and CYA  tools with this POS kid.

Season his face or fry his ass with the TAZER then hog/zip tie his ass and call 911.  Hand the police the footage of him perpetrating violence so they can just haul him off and keep him locked up until he no longer represents a threat to society in general.  If your DH does not posses the balls to press charges then you get an RO/PO keeping him at least 500ft from you and your home since he represents a clear and present danger to anyone in your home.

I have zero use for idiot parents who justify or tolerate this crap and even less use for the idiot teen that pulls this crap.

smh