You are here

Money? How much is too much?

AdviceSeekingSM's picture

We are roughly $4000 ahead in child support. We set up our payments for every two weeks and didn’t realize we added a little extra each month. Which added an extra payment a year & $1500 a year. 

When we realized it we didn’t change anything or even bring it to his ex wife’s attention. 

My struggle now is there are 2 girls; we pay 1/2 of everything they do. Even if we were not consulted. Last year it was $3000 band trip. This year another trip. They are 15 & 17 and contribute zero to any of these trips.

My husband and I own a business together and he stays home to work it but I have to travel 1200 miles every other week for my job to help supplement; our money is together.

How much is enough? I’m tired of handing over money for luxury trips  to two ungrateful kids who have done nothing to help themselves. Neither said thank you for the last trip and actually got mad when we wouldn’t fly them out again in 3 months! 

How do you handle all of the extra’s? I’m not talking about neccessities, but band trips to CA, etc,  

justmakingthebest's picture

I wouldn't pay for anything extra and I would ask for a CS review. If you are ahead by $4K you should have the next year reduced by roughly $330 a month. Just think of all the extra's you guys can do with that! Or if you are used to spending it, put it in a college fund for the Skids. Just handing it over to BM like you are now, you will never get it back. You will have to be proactive about having an adjustment done. 

AdviceSeekingSM's picture

We are going to adjust the payment and just stick to the minimum and continue to pay for half the extras; instead of both.

Teas83's picture

Is it court ordered for you to pay those extra expenses?

 

My husband's CO says that he and BM share the cost of extra curricular activities at a ratio of 96% to 4% (based on their income). But the wording also says something to the effect of "as agreed upon by the two parties". I take that to mean BM can't just sign SD up for everything under the sun without my husband agreeing to it first. She recently saved up 4 years worth of receipts for activities that my husband didn't even know about and tried to get him to pay for it (he refused). She sent it to Maintenance Enforcement and they denied it as well. He pays $1500/month in CS right now.

I wouldn't pay for anything that you don't have to.

ESMOD's picture

How are you ahead?  you paid her more than she was owed?  If that is the case... the courts are very likely to see that extra as "gifted" so in reality.. you may NOT be ahead.  Now as far as paying extras.. that still would be based on the CO.. if it stipulates you have to.. then you still will.. whatever you overpaid in the past is unlikely to be factored in.  Plus.. she knows she got more.. believe me.. people know what to expect.. they won't scream unless it is somehow less.  and.. this is dangerous because a court might  see this as a show you are capable of paying higher.  I would stop this immediately and go to the correct payment once a month.

AdviceSeekingSM's picture

husband thought he was supposed to pay and furnish. We didn’t realize the oversight until we got out the divorce papers for a different question and that was about 3 years into paying over. 

We are going to correct the payment and adhere to the divorce papers and prolly still pay the 50% just not to rock the boat too much. That is excellent advice. 

SMto2's picture

First, I agree with the above poster who said any additional monies paid are to be deemed a "gift." At one point in the 15 years my DH paid CS, I calculated how much we owed based on the number of years and considered "paying it off" with one of our bonuses from work then realized that would just indicate to the BM that we had more financial ability and likely trigger a review of CS.  If your DH doesn't want to pay for extras beyond that and it's not in the CO, then don't, simple as that.

Also, while it would be nice for teenagers to thank their parents for providing things such as trips for them, I don't think it's a sign of entitlement for them not to. My and DH's DS16 is going on a trip this summer with his school to Spain, and it's more than $3,000, all of which we are paying, and NONE of which he is paying. I don't expect him to specifically "thank" us for this, although I know he is grateful. He does his part by making straight As and being a well-rounded kid who stays out of trouble, and for me, that is definitely thanks enough. If I were his SM, perhaps I'd feel he was an ungrateful "sh*t" for not thanking us, but as his BM, I don't feel that way at all.  In fact, I'm thrilled that my DH and I can provide this for him. When I was in school, my parents couldn't have paid for a trip like this.

TwoOfUs's picture

I don't understand all of this: "I don't expect my bios to thank me" stuff I'm seeing on here. It's so weird. Like...how hard is it to teach kids to express thanks to people (including parents) who have done something nice for them? As a kid, I was taught to thank my friends' parents for dinner...or to say 'thank you' when my parents took me out or got me a treat of some sort. Heck. I said 'thank you' when someone passed me a dish at the dinner table or handed me a popsicle. My skids are the same way, as are my niece and nephews. They always, always thank me when I do something nice for them. And they are ALSO well-rounded kids who get good grades. The two things don't cancel each other out. Like...if you got D's and F's you'd have to say 'thank you' but since you get A's, just don't even worry about it. 

I went on a Senior Trip to London and Paris as a high school student. I worked and paid for most of it myself, but my grandmother and my parents both kicked in some funds to help me...and you can bet this straight-A, soccer-playing, high ACT score-earning, helpful around the house. involved in a million enriching extracurriculars kid said thank you to them for the help. I even wrote my grandmother a Thank You letter. GASP! 

AdviceSeekingSM's picture

Thank you is easy and should be expected as acknowledgment that someone just did something for you. Whether it was expected or not. 

Paying for your senior trip helped prepare you for life and I am sure made you feel very accomplished. How are we showing our kids how to have that feeling if they never have to pay for anything. 

When we say making good grades and being polite are all that we should expect in return for luxury trips does show how expectations have evolved. 

Good grades & politeness are the minimum just like food and a safe place to live are minimum. You work together to provide the extras it’s give and take. 

Thank you for your wonderful insight! 

SMto2's picture

I never said I didn't expect my teenager to use basic manners or that if he got D's and F's he would have to say, "thank you," but because he gets straight A's, he can ignore common courtesies, nor would I ever tolerate such behavior. What I did say is that I don't think he would be acting "entitled" if he did not specifically say "thank you" for us paying for his trip to Spain, and also that I don't necessarily expect him to say, "thank you" FOR THAT SPECIFICALLY. He very well may say, "thank you" to us for the trip at some point, as he attends a military boarding school and is extremely polite, and even answers most adult responses with, "yes, sir" or "no, ma'am," but if he doesn't, I'm not going to think I've got a child who expects everything to be handed to him. Also, I think the need to express "thanks" is different to those who are outside your immediate family. I note you said you wrote your grandmother a "thank you letter." Did you also write your own parents a "thank you" note? If not, why not? I don't expect my minor children (OR MY SKs) to bow down and thank me as their parent for every meal I cook or for paying for utilities at their home, paying their sports registration, putting gas in the vehicle, paying tuition for school, taking them on vacation and all the other basic expenses in life that I provide as their parent. Yes, if we buy a gift for them or if it's a situation where manners are called for, I do expect them to be used. There is a difference.

Rags's picture

CS covers all NCP responsibility to support the child unless otherwise stipulated in the court order.  Books... covered in CS.  Extracurriculars... covered in CS.  Band/School trips.... covered in CS.  Sports and associated equipment... covered in CS.  Clothing... covered in CS.  Band trips, tutoring, coaching, lessons, etc, etc, etc.... all covered in CS.

In our case the only portion of Skid related costs that the SpermIdiot's CS obligation did not cover was visitation travel and medical costs not covered by insurance.  Each party was responsible for transporting the Skid to their location and each party was responsible for half of all medical expenses not covered by insurance.

We were given clarity on this by the Judge when we attempted to get the SpermClan to cover half the costs of musical instruments for school.  Nope.... the Judge was clear... CS was the NCPs contribution to supporting the kid and if CS was paid consistently the SpermIdiot  (NCP) had no other obligations (other than half fo travel costs and half of medical costs).

 

As for a band trip being a luxury.... IMHO that depends on the situation..  While it most definitely is not a necessity... I believe that these are things that parents should cover or at least participate in paying for.  Ideally a kid will earn that money themselves but even more ideally this just part of raising a kid.

The complexity goes up in situations where one parent pumps money into the coffers of the household of the other parent.  Yes, I  understand and fully am on board with the fact that an NCP should support their children.  However, so should a CP.  And while the NCPs contribution is clearly quantifiable .... that is rarely the case with the CPs contribution.  Due to the complexities involved..... sticking to just COd support makes things much simpler. 

 

pinkb's picture

... that the SM is sacrificing her own well being, mental health, and possibly future retirement funds because it's not just DHs funds that are going to pay for HIS children but hers as well.

As someone who was also *expected* (in no uncertain terms) :until SS(now 22) "turned 18" then "after the first year of college" and then "after the last year of college". He graduated in December and now has decided he's going to grad schohol which will no more make his sorry a$$ any more marketable than it is today.... though it will run him up another 100K in debt which (IMHO) is just his calculating way to not have to enter the workforce.  Thank God that won't be OUR debt (so fafr). 

SS still hasn't secured a job he *WANTS* and his beneath taking a job that he thinks is benearth him (and according to him that's pretty much ALL of them) and it's been five months.

I get it that Bio parents want to help make the best life possible for their kids but that means responsible saving AND spending that includes the blessing of his spouse if some of those funds are hers.  That's an undeniable courtesy and respect for SM/SF.

My OWN SF sat be down when I was 13yo and said "we can't afford a fancy college so you're going to have to make really good grades unless you want to take out exhorbinant school loans" and, as a result, I worked my behind off in high school and got a free ride.

I absolutely understand the anxiety and resentment. Spending your money? You get a choice. Or leave the jerk.

AdviceSeekingSM's picture

We should have been a stickler from he get go. Now we have already set a percent. Plan on  backing off bit by bit  but so far in 6 years we’be all been pretty amiable. I respect paying the CS because I was a single parent who did not receive it regularly. Just no reason to be overly generous. 

Sounds like you have definelty had a tough go of it! What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger they say...we should all be hulk women by now! 

strugglingSM's picture

If the plan is for your SKids to cover all of their own extras when they turn 18, then it's probably wise to get them started on thinking about how much things cost and also started on contributing to their current extras. That doesn't mean they have to pay for the entire trip, but maybe they earn money to cover their tickets to Disney and Universal or their plane ticket. No child should assume that everything will be covered for them. I also disagree with the post above that children assume a $3000 band trip is just part of going to school. If a child assumes that, then they are being spoiled. Children should always be aware of which items/trips/experiences are privileges, not rights. I can guarantee you that not every child at the school has parents who just pay for every expensive trip without expecting anything from their children. There is at least one family that is either not interested in or not capable of paying that amount for a trip. Maybe that kid is working to cover his/her own expenses. 

BM would likely be less interested in signing them up for all the trips if she had to pay 100% of the cost herself. Instead, she has the added bonus of looking like a doting mother by allowing all trips, while also giving her a chance to stick it to her ex by demanding he pay for a trip that the children have already been promised. 

The BM in my life used to do this - send DH a monthly handwritten list of all the things she had paid for that she thought he should contribute to. I told him that I wasn't comfortable shelling out hundreds of extra dollars a month for things that we had no say in. BM also refused to contribute to any sports or activities we signed the children up for (e.g. one year, she wanted DH to pay $1000 to send both kids to sleep-away camp, but then refused to pay $200 to send the kids to tech camp that she had agreed to previously because she said DH was just using it as "daycare" during his weeks with the kids). Now, DH will tell her that if he didn't agree to it, he's not interested in paying for it. She also has a tendency to demand that he pay 100% of the cost for things, even though the CO stipulates that his obligation is 30%. He once gave her a check for 30% of the cost for football equipment. The next visitation, one of the children handed him an envelope, inside was his ripped up check and a letter saying he was "wasting her time" by not paying 100%. I've saved that letter, so if she ever decides to make an issue out of anything, DH can pull that out as proof that he was paying BM, but she was just trying to get more money from him. BM always threatens to go back to court for more child support when she doesn't get what she wants, but I know she won't because she now makes more money (and is no longer self-employed, so can't under-report her income on the CS calculation form, like she did when they got divorced) and DH's child support would likely be reduced if BM went back to court. 

AdviceSeekingSM's picture

You hit the nail on the head! She can sign them up for anything & everything and look awesome, especially since she doesn’t have to pay for it all. 

Absolutely great idea about he list! We are blindsided completely! Week after week! I’m using that one this week.

So happy to have so many people who understand and to troubleshoot ideas!! Thank you!! 

TwoOfUs's picture

YOUR money shouldn't go to susidize skid experiences, period. 

If your DH can afford to make a full contribution to your household expenses AND all of his child support...and then has extra that he wants to give to his daughters, that's fine. But you are under no obligation to help this happen for them, and it sounds like you are getting resentful. 

Simply tell your hudband you want separate checking accounts and that he can pay for extras after he's paid CS and contributed at least 50% to the household budget that you've established. Easy to say...hard to do, I know. But you're protecting your marriage by doing so...not being a mean person. 

And YES. If teen skids want things, they should be expected to work and contribute to some degree, at their ages. Your DH and his ex aren't doing them any favors by not expecting some active financial participation from those girls. 

 

AdviceSeekingSM's picture

a bit resentful. As we have the business it’s  hard to determine what he contributes. We have to figure out what we are going to do as we enter the expensive years. 

TwoOfUs's picture

I'm in the exact same boat. DH and I have a business together...and it goes through ups and downs. However, he ONLY does the business and I also freelance enough to pay all our bills. It does cause resentment, because I don't have any kids myself and he brought 3 to the marriage...yet I feel that I'm carrying 75-80% of the financial burden. 

I know it's hard...but you can simply start saying no and prioritizing your own needs. I did this a little over a year ago, and it's amazing how much my savings grew in 2017... 

thinkthrice's picture

as being "ahead" on CS.  In NYS you are never caught up even though technically you have paid the CO CS.  This is if it goes through CSEU.  Anything extra is considered a "gift" to the BM.  CS also goes to 21 and beyond here.

This seldom works in reverse.  I don't know of any NCP biodad who overpaid CS via CSEU getting money retroactively.  The amount stays the same.

AdviceSeekingSM's picture

we aren’t expecting to somehow have a positive balance. In truth their mom never has acknowledged that we are ahead and we have never mentioned it to her. It is just time to readjust now that the most expensive years are ahead. Thanks! 

Tina22's picture

Sounds like you created a monster

Costa Rica for Spanish class??? Really?? Thousands of kids across the country are in Spanish classes and I assure you Costa Rica was not a class requirement. Either they are in a private expensive school or they are compley spoiled. And they are getting mad because u won't fly them out for a band trip? Wow. Hopefully this behavior is reversible somehow, its going to be a harsh rude awakening on everyone involved when these girls are denied what they want

Cover1W's picture

Oh, my SD14 is getting a trip to Costa Rica and she's not even IN a spanish class or anything.  It's just a trip her school offers (and the company makes $$$$ too BTW after DH checked them out).  It's a guise for "world travel" and "exploring other cultures."  So they get to go zip lining, explore beaches, do a lot of fun stuff.  And it's at least $2,700.  I was against it, if she wants to go on a class trip, let her go to WA DC.  But nope, she HAD to do the Costa Rica trip.  DH stipulated she had to help cover costs (BM did pay half, but DH had to make sure the payments were set up specifically for this split cost or he could have had the full bill) but nothing has been convered by her at all - and her classmates who are going have had multiple fund raisers, none of which she's deigned to participate in.  And you ask her, why are you exited?  She doesn't know.  She just wants the trip.  And then she complains we aren't going on a trip this summer or spring break...really?  Because YOUR DAD paid for YOU to go to Costa Rica a trip even we cannot afford for ourselves.  And you're complaining?  That's when I was just done.  I have no more patience for her trip complaints whatsoever.  She's in middle school!  Middle school! 

Loxy's picture

My school did a ski trip in year 11 and 12 and I was the only kid in both years who had to pay for their own trip so I don't think it's unreasonable to expect teenagers to get a job and contribute to these things.

With my skids, we pay child support (not a huge amount as BM is a high income earner - as is DH) and then half of all other agreed costs so school fees, medical costs and agreed activities - this would include school trips.