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Dealing with PAS and Family Matters.

WickednNasty's picture

I've never been so torn. A little background, DH has been a victim of PA for the past 5 years. Approximately 3 years ago, his visitation stopped all together numerous things have taken place during that time, including BM's failed attempt at obtaining an OP based on lies. Yes the PA experts say to maintain contact, easier said than done when you’re fighting PAS. My husband was simply having friendly conversations with HIS children via text messages and The Sick and Twisted BM construed it as harassment. The Judge hearing the case was shocked and questioned another Judge even entering a Temporary OP. Her first order of business to address the Judge with was Your Honor, “They ran off to (Country) and got married, without my permission”. Neither I nor the Bailiff could help but chuckle. She was ordered to take the skids to counseling, sure Judge, she'll do this just like she was ordered to do when the divorce was granted. Orders issued are only for Dh to follow not her! For those of you that are going to bash DH for not following thru with the Court it’s a waste of his time, money and effort, because in his opinion all it does is complicate his children’s lives.

Anyway our present situation is this; FIL's health is failing rapidly, to the point where his days are numbered according to his Doctor. MIL is also very ill and back in December Dh was approached about putting her on Hospice too. Long story she is still with us, but nobody in the medical field understands how. With FIL’s recent decline, Dh has made the comment that when he passes away he isn't going to let his children know. “They couldn’t take the time to come and see him while he was alive why should they now pay their respects, when they couldn’t display any while he was alive”.

I think this is wrong and told him. Dh's response was “fine I'll tell them”. I don't want him to do what I say, it's what I feel is in the best interest for everyone. Granted since the alienation started they haven't visited their Grandparent's with the exception of once in December due to MIL's health decline and me texting BM with DH agreeing to me doing so. She is a blatant liar to say the least, one of her responses to my text was, "she's still there?", next text from her seconds later was "every time I'm there, I stop in to see her". Just more of her biblical BS. Mind you the Nursing home they're both in is 1 and 1/2 blocks from their home.

When my Mom passed away BM didn’t have the decency to encourage Skids to pay their respects. When my sister passed away a few months ago, the thought never crossed my mind to ask DH to let them know. Is he upset? I was shocked the thought never crossed my mind and secondly when they couldn’t pay their respects to my Mom; why in the hell would I think they would to my sister?

Either way I’m torn, I know if the kids know the BM is going to attempt to attend the services, which I’ve discussed with DH previously. He has said she will be escorted out and the skids are welcome to stay. I feel if Dh doesn’t tell them, it will be one more thing BM will use to continue her PA campaign, “see your father doesn’t even consider you part of the family so he didn’t tell you’. Honestly I believe my husband wants to tell them and have them pay their respects, however he’s embarrassed at their behavior along with appearance. If BM shows up it’s going to be very difficult for me to keep my mouth shut I honestly don’t know if I can do it. Out of respect for my FIL I hope I can, but this woman is such a hypocrite she needs to be put in her place and I’m sure the children would be present to hear what’s said. It seems like either way it’s a mess.

No matter how it's handled it's wrong.


smdh's picture

It isn't your decision to tell them. And I agree with your dh. Nothing pisses me off more than people showing up at funerals all broken up about a loss of someone they didn't give a damn about when they were alive.

WickednNasty's picture

Yes I agree, with you about it being his decision. It's like no matter what he does it's wrong. I'm frustrated and I think he is too.

I agree with you about funerals too!

WickednNasty's picture

They're twins 15 years old.

Thank you. This is one of the few places I can vent where someone understands.

Eventually Judges have to get involved.

I enjoy reading some of the stories here where people are able to overcome the PA.

It baffles me that she can't see what she's doing to her own children.

stormabruin's picture

"That's the thing about PAS. The alienated parent can never do anything right."
I think this is a key statement that is hard to come to grips with but realizing the truth in it is something that can help ease the guilt & self-blame on the alienated parents part. I know in our experience with it, so much time & so many tears were spent in an effort to pinpoint what we did wrong. What did we do to make these kids hate us? Was it because DH told SD to get in her bed when she came into our bedroom wanting to get in our bed? Was it because we didn't let them have chips before dinner? Was it because we didn't have cable TV? Was it because we didn't have TV's in each of their bedrooms? WHERE DID WE GO WRONG???

Finally one day when DH mentioned that it was his fault this happened because he let them go back to live with BM it dawned on me...

BM lied to him & the kids about having terminal cancer with 8 months to live. That is what his decision was based on. It was a lie. Certainly, DH didn't want the kids to go, but felt they needed a chance to know their mother before she died. Could you imagine the wrath he'd face if she passed & didn't get to have a relationship with her because he was too selfish to let it happen? Yes, BM lied & the outcome has been tragic, but he made the decision he felt was in the best interest of the children based on the "facts" he had to base it on.

Yes, when the REAL truth is staring us in the face the decision would've been different. Alienated parents end up muliplying the blame they carry with the self-blame...the should-haves & shouldn't-haves & what-if's & If-I-had-only's, & the neglect to recognize that everything isn't a right or wrong. There aren't always right answers or right choices. Sometimes we just have to weigh the consequences of two not-so-great choices & make the one we feel isn't the worst.

I got long-winded on a concept that really is simple but it sometimes is hard to keep in mind as we're beating ourselves up. It just really struck a chord with me. LOL!

WickednNasty's picture

Storm, you are more than welcome to get as long winded as you like on ANY of my Blogs. You and your rants make so much sense to me and make me feel better when nothing seems to be going right. If we can help one family who's in our position we're doing ok. We'll never solve the worlds problems, but here we sit out of love for our DH's, SO's and Skids trying to make sense of Wacky BM's. "Strength in Numbers".

Thank you, it's a shame that thru our hurt we can connect on here, and what is even worse is we have the hurt we do. Can you imagine what these kids feel day in and day out? My heart breaks for them. As I stated above the parents who win these things are a true inspiration to me.

WickednNasty's picture

It's like a train wreck waiting to happen. We have to sit and TRY to ignore it. My heart goes out to you and your Dh Book.

It's a boy and girl. Actually in our case the girl seems more interested in having a relationship with her father than the boy. The boy is a total kiss up, but that could be due to the fact that he knows without a doubt that his father wouldn't allow the things his mother has.

How old are your skids? Did he fight for custody originally?

12yrstepmonster's picture

I imagine my DH would be considered alienated as well.

I would probably tell kids now that his days are numbered. If they make no contact then I would not call about the death.

My DH has little contact with his kids. He sees DD20 when he calls her. Ss15 has now quit coming to our house and only sees DH for 3 hours once a week.

Yes the CO says more, but eventually the fight destroys you. You let it go.

Delilah's picture

I think if there is a good chance that the BM would find the information out and possibly try to attend the funeral then I WOULD preempt the information and inform the skids before BM is able to use that also.

I appreciate its hard because our DH's have feelings and some have anger towards their children too.

Its been three years here since my DH last saw his son, BM was a nightmare and did everything in her power to make our lives hell. Even recruiting my SIL and PIL in her control games. DH insists she was trying to break us up, that was her aim. Figures as much as she tried to get DH to promise her before our wedding that he would always put ss before me and anyone else (read that as any bio kids we may have). Skid was PASed against me, I was the closet axe murderer by the way he treated me.

I think it is best if you and DH agreed upon a plan on how to discreetly address the possibility of BM showing have family/friends ready to swoop in by the doors if she dared show her face. Its in very bad taste for a women who has helped alienate children from the paternal family, to then attend one of that said family's funerals. I know I couldnt contend with having to bite my tongue if I saw our snake in the grass, I would want to exterminate it.

stormabruin's picture

Our dealings with alienation are very much alike. My DH also fought through court to have his visitation enforced, only to give BM new opportunity to tell stories a mile long & have his visitation revoked little-by-little E.V.E.R.Y. time he went back until there was nothing left to enforce.

Communication was non-existent for nearly 2 years, until SS was getting ready to turn 18. He has/is slowly making his way back, & in his years of dealing with BM without DH in the picture, he has gotten a clearer picture of BM & everything she truly is. He still struggles with loyalty to her. He knows that she lies, to him & everyone else around her. He knows she eats pills like they're going out of style. He knows she uses people. He knows she's manipulative. He's learned, firsthand, that if you challenge her or question anything she says, you bring upon yourself the wrath of Satan, & that it truly is Hell to pay.

He knows all of this, yet still is devoted to protecting her & will make excuses to no end. She's had a hard life. Well, haven't we all??? Yes, she struggles with relationships, but it's because she doesn't respect anybody. Yes, she struggles with finances, but it's because she chooses not to work. Her life is what it is because of the choices she's made...& continues to make. When things come up with DH regarding her, SS will forever come back with, "But that's in the past. I wish we could just leave the past in the past & move forward". Yes, much of it is in the past, but as much of it is still ongoing & will continue as long as it goes ignored.

With SS coming around, we have seen SD make a little bit of room for DH in her life again. She is also BM's protector & BFF. If Dh's texts her she'll text back, but all it takes is for BM to say something snide about how she didn't get the weeks CS when she needed it & SD jumps ship, & it all starts over again.

With all of that, DH would never not make an effort to let them know that a relative has passed...ever. Even now, DH's mother is slowly declining in health & he reminds the kids that they won't have opportunities forever to see her & visit with her. Does it change anything? Not really, but when she's gone & they have regrets, those regrets will be theirs to own.

I think a lot of times in cases of PA, there is not a right or wrong. I have found it to be more that every action has a result. You just have to weigh the consequences & pick the one you feel may have the least negative results. Yes, BM will have a hay-day if he does not include them in the announcement of their grandfather's passing. In their minds, he will have proven BM to be spot-on in her accusations...all because of a choice your DH would've made out of spite to get back at them for the hurt & anger they've caused in rejecting him.

I do hope that he'll rise above trying to "show them" or "teach them a lesson" here. If they haven't taken time to visit their grandfather, they may very well not show but that needs to be their choice; not his.

HadEnoughx5's picture

We are dealing with PAS too. And your right, your'e damned if you do and damned if you don't }:)

I personally would tell the skids about their grandfather and give them the choice attend services for him. I know it will be difficult if you see BM there, but stand tall for your dignity in all this and for the skids.

We deal with BM and PAS all the time, we are in the midst of going to trial in a few weeks. It's difficult to not want to speak ill of their BM, but we don't. I think somewhere in the back of their minds, they know what BM is doing and what DH refuses to do, put the children in the middle.