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So pretty much disregard my last blog

TrueNorth77's picture

Because oh what a difference a day makes. Or in this case, half a day. 

I honestly am at the end of my rope with this situation. DH was going to file for an emergency custody change giving Crazy full custody. He consulted his previous (now retired) lawyer and was going to call the new referral. 

But when DH got home from work, he was excited that I had found the intensive outpatient program for SD. He said he thinks it will be really good- 4hrs of therapy a day, plus she will be back on meds (that isn't part of the program, he just wants her to be back on them)...he said it HAS to make a difference. Then he said, and if she's here and goes, then she will be out of the house for at least 4hrs. Hold up. I said, if she's here? Why would she be here? He said, oh, you still think we would refuse custody and not allow her to come here? I said, well why would that change? I cannot do this again. And this program will not just magically fix PAS. It will hopefully help with her suicidal ideation and other issues though. He said, well I think it will help with her issues with us. I have to try and make it work with her. 

Right then he got a message from Crazy asking him to check on SD- her ONLY friend had told her she no longer wanted to be friends with SD. Guess why?? Because Crazy bashes this friend to SD and SD tells her and the friend is sick of it. The friend is team DH. DH went to check on her and was very kind and empathetic and SD turned her alter-ego on and talked to him and even showed him texts with this friend where SD told her Crazy might get full custody but SD "had no say". And that they might move, but it was "out of her control". Like she didn't really want to...but also, this friend doesn't like Crazy, so SD was just downplaying it for her. She WANTS to be with Crazy and she can't wait to move. But I know DH latched onto it, even though SD was just saying it because her friend doesn't like Crazy. So DH apologized for things he did wrong and asked if he could give her a hug and she hugged him and he told her he loved her and she said it back. Which, is great. But this does not undo everything that has happened in the slightest. 

NOW, DH is convinced It can all be turned around, PAS and police and praying for him to be arrested and everything else be damned. I actually had to REMIND HIM that she called the police on him and prayed for him to be arrested!!! I told him I am at the end of my rope with this SD situation and the Crazy BS and all the drama she causes with skids every single f'ng time we try to go somewhere. I'm at my limit with this SD crap. He said "well 2 days ago is the first time you've even seen SD be aggressive". I said, um, hello, she called the police on you! He said oh yeah. FFS. The rose-colored glasses on this one! 

He said we need to "see what happens". And he has to try. And if I'm not willing to be part of that, he will have his mom pick SD up while he's at work. I said I understand you want to try. But I don't think you truly understand the depths of PAS. And that it can't just be undone. (He hasn't researched it and won't, and thinks every scenario is different and this could be undone). I said I'm just saying that SD has to WANT to be here, and I don't want her here until that is the case. Because unless she wants to be here, everyone is miserable. And if she's forced here, we're at the mercy of Crazy. He said yeah but it's better than her being brainwashed there and at least I have an opportunity to undo it. I'm mad at DH for suddenly changing his mind after we agreed on a direction and I finally felt like we may have peace. (DH said, you know I change my mind and that decision was made during an emotional time). 

I honestly don't know what to do. I have struggled with accepting that this demon is the real SD also, and obviously DH doesn't want to believe it, especially now that he got a glimpse that the old SD is still there. Maybe there is still a chance. But I don't trust her, and I feel so drained and overwhelmed and just exhausted by it all. It's CONSTANT. If I posted everything that happened I would be constantly blogging. I don't even have the energy for it. DH actually said that maybe we are at a crossroads if I'm at the end of my rope, because he won't just say "F his kids" because I'm over it. He said if I'm not willing to try and make an effort with her than he will make sure I'm not involved and try to get his mom to take her while he's working. I asked what effort he thought I should make exactly since she would most likely end up telling her mom and they would laugh about it and make fun of me, and he didn't have an answer. 

I was in tears before because I absolutely hate this situation and I want to smack Crazy and SD for creating this mess, and I want to smack DH for flipping the script on all of it. 


Dollbabies's picture

at anything not to have to the hard parenting stuff. And how he cannot see he's being played is mind boggling.

So what he has to offer you is you won't have to be alone with her but when he is home, she is there, too?

Wow, what fun. 

ETA: This reminds me of the saying "the road to hell is paved with good intentions." You found the therapy place for her and that turned out to be the thing that brings her back to your home and destroys your peace.

TrueNorth77's picture

Those were my thoughts exactly. I really hope it ends up working for her and in some fairytale world even helps with the PAS. Maybe it will, who knows. 

But yes, DH's idea seems to be that if Crazy makes SD come here, she will come. And then he will have her go to his moms during the day and she will be here when he is home. I don't even believe that though because we live in town and her job is in town. His parents live outside of town and have a life. They can't have her all the time. He acts like we didn't try already. It is just crazy. 

Winterglow's picture

Keep your fingers crossed that his mother will refuse to comply - if her own grandmother won't take her why should you?

AlmostGone834's picture

I can't see any of this working. My prediction is that it won't be long before SD just leaves for her moms and refuses to come back, so I think you will have peace in your house anyway.

She's not going to want to go to therapy. She doesn't want to be at your house. She probably will hate being forced to take medication...

Idk. She just seems like she's going to fight all this. And I doubt grandma will want to deal with her every day either. 

Your DH is going to be fighting an uphill battle trying to change her and men give up pretty easily in these situations. I'm thinking it won't be long before he drops the rope.

AgedOut's picture

He seems willing to bet your entire lives on the whims of a manipulative demon and her mother. Can he go elsewhere if she's with him? Can he move in w/ his mother for every minute he has her? Because he's being manipulated again and he's choosing to pretend not to know it. He is willing to destroy his futre for her, especially w/ her habit of lying to the police about him. But he has no right to allow her the chance to destroy you. I hate telling people here to make ultimatums bu this (to me) seems like the hill to die on. If he continues 50/50 w/ her, he needs to live elsewhere while she's w/ him. Your life is not her toy or weapon to destroy.

Yesterdays's picture

I agree with this. If he has this grandiose vision of helping her and being there then he should move out somewhere.. Small apartment and he can deal with her on his own somehow but to open up the door and allow everyone in your house to have access to her, and be tormented continually by her while she is like this is wrong.

I would state a boundary. Sd does not come to our house. Period. Do whatever you need to do to get her help... Enrol her in a program, send her to her mom's, get an apartment. What it is doesn't matter as long as he knows that one thing is not going to ever happen. She is never coming to this house. So do what you will and she is NOT coming here. If she does that is my hill. This kid needs help and a wake up call. BIG wakeup call. Dh needs to get this through in his head. She is manipulating him when she reverts back and pulls on his heart strings temporarily 

Yesterdays's picture

I forget.. Do you work from home? I feel like he would try to push her on you while you're at home. I don't think she should ever be over there (for a long while... Months at LEAST  anyhow...) until she's more stable. Not making threats. Not calling police. If it were me I would talk to your husband and state a boundary and say look she's not coming back here . And make that the hill. It bio mom drops her off she goes right back. She is not to be trusted. How can you trust someone in your home who calls the cops on you. You would never feel at peace. 

TrueNorth77's picture

I 100% agree with all of this AgedOut and Yesterdays. These are my thoughts exactly- DH can absolutely work on his relationship with her. Guess how he can do that? By attending therapy with her. By going and doing something with her. But NOT by having her come here for a full F'ng week when he works from 5:30am to 6 or 7pm most nights, and I DO Work from Home. Can you believe the unbelievable GALL of him?? "I need to try to make it work with her". Do you DH?? You mean while I'm here all alone with her all day and you are here a few hours a day with her and I feel uncomfortable ALL day long?? 

There are other options than her coming here for a full week. He acts like that's the only way. It's NOT. Baby steps until she actually wants to be here and has changed her hateful attitude and there is more trust that she can be in this house. 

We will be talking about this again, because not only is all of the above the situation, with DH working long hours and me home alone with SD, but DH didn't call his mom to ask her to take her- I am here with her. And yes, there is almost zero interaction. SD stays in her room literally the entire time. She is like a ninja, I think she ate a yogurt and I didn't even see her come down and do it. She did walk past my desk to get a package from the porch and was polite enough to ask if I was in a meeting so she wouldn't interrupt on-camera. But I have been sick to my stomach all day, because we have no idea what will happen or how this will pan out. If she is forced here again and DH just allows it, do we get psycho SD, or the one who can apparently still show glimmers of being human? I don't want to find out until we know for sure. I don't want to have to worry about having the cops called or false accusations. 

I am SO mad at DH for putting a plan in place and completely changing it because he got emotional. 

Dollbabies's picture

outrageous. He needs to use his PTO to get this dilemma sorted out. I would be inclined to contact him at work and tell him to get home right now. 

CastleJJ's picture

Whatever happens in DH's delusional mind, one thing must be made perfectly clear - YOUR BOUNDARIES. DH doesn't get to change the direction of this and then act like everything is fine. BM, DH, and SD all think they are driving this ship and you get no say. 

You will NOT be home alone with SD, you will not be expected to take care of SD, etc. This isn't a situation where DH gets to have his cake and eat it to, having SD visit and then pawning her off on you while he lives his normal, everyday life. 4 hours of therapy per day isn't enough "time out of the house" and it isn't going to fix anything. If DH can't respect that and wants you to get onboard his idiot train, a separation may be required for your own protection.

I have an aunt (I didn't mention her before because it didn't seem relevant to your then situation) who has bipolar disorder. She was diagnosed by a top medical system at 19 years old. My grandparents took care of her through most of her young adult life (through teen pregnancy, frequent unemployment, frequent changes in romantic partners, financial problems, etc.) There came a point where my grandparents could not financially afford to continue to support her. When they told her she would need to start standing on her own (at almost 30), she lost her mind, went to my cousin's school and told them my grandpa molested her son. She thought that would "right the ship" and force their continued support. She thought she was in control and could force the outcome she wanted. My entire family spent 9 months in criminal court, being interrogated, court hearings, depositions etc. for my grandpa's case to be dismissed due to no evidence. IT WAS HELL. The prosecutor threatened to put me (then 14) and my brother (then 10) into foster care because my parents weren't cooperating with putting us through intensive questioning. There was a no contact order against my grandparents for all minors until the case was dismissed. 

My aunt still attempted her shenanigans for years. Everyone went no contact immediately after that incident. 9 years after the first situation, she sent my grandparents a letter, demanding $10k or she was going to reopen the case. They didn't comply or respond, so she started more and more and more (hired lawyers to send letters, leaking information on social media, showing up at their house). To this day, despite the no contact for almost 20 years, she blasts them and our whole family on social media and has become a "social media trailblazer" on childhood trauma, abusive families, misdiagnosis, etc. Even well into her 40s, she hasn't let this fight go and she still refuses to stay medicated or in therapy, citing misdiagnosis. 

This is what these situations can look like into adulthood, even in non-PAS households. Add the PAS element and it can be so much worse. Your DH has no control here and trying to force control is a waste of time. This whole situation is dangerous for all of you. Your SD has no remorse for her actions and will do anything necessary to remain in control and get what she wants. Every interaction is transactional. 

Dollbabies's picture

What a nightmare for your family. I'm so sorry you had to go through that.

Your SD has already done the first level of this with her call to the police. Your husband is himself delusional if he can't see that he is in danger of being accused of sexual abuse in the not too distant future.

Save yourself. Please. 

TrueNorth77's picture

That is insane! I have tried to tell him what can happen, he just will not listen. She doesn't care who she hurts or what she says right now. She is a VERY angry, unhinged child. What's crazy is how one second he is all "I want her to leave!", and then she is quiet for a bit and he takes that as a sign of hope. Like Jesus, just because she isn't yelling all the time is not a sign of hope! She needs to be on medication. She needs this therapy. But it is going to be a long road. He wants to get her away from Crazy and thinks if he gets her here it will help her, he regrets letting her stay with Crazy for 4wks when she initially said she didn't want to come here because that's when it all went downhill. He somehow thinks he can reverse it now. All he cares about now is SD and he is NOT respecting my boundaries or trying to find a way that might work for everyone. Crazy and him absolutely do think they are driving this ship- Crazy sends her here knowing full well she will be here with me all day. No I do not "watch her" or provide literally any care at all, but having this energy under my roof is draining. 



CastleJJ's picture

I understand that you are not "watching SD," but being alone with SD all day in the same house is still dangerous, even if you have cameras. All it takes is one interaction and a camera malfunction and your ass is in trouble. If your DH wants SD to visit so bad, he MUST have another plan for her while he works. Leaving her alone with you is NOT an option. 

Rags's picture

I hope your whole family each filed a separate defamation suit against this POS aunt.  I would have her crap so plastered all over social media with links to the all of the official court records, etc, etc, etc, that she could not fart a mustard seed without the entire social media world calling her on her bullshit.

I would have her so broke with legal bills and judgements for defamation that she could not afford a single electron to post anything on social media.  

Oh how you all should have ended her brutally when she plied her toxic crap.


Yesterdays's picture

I think I would have spit out my coffee at the expression that she will be out of the house for 4 hours 

Really? Like you should jump for joy that she is out of the house for 4 hours?

I think if anything she probably needs a program that is live in... Either that or she is at her moms full time. Until something drastic happens absolutely nothing will change.

She will just continue to see that the manipulation and playing her parents against each other is working. To me she plays each household to what she wants. Dh is so rainbow minded that he is just taking any scraps thrown his way. He doesn't see these as what they are? 

Rumplestiltskin's picture

If she's out for 4 hours, where is she the rest of the time? I didn't see anything about how school fits into this. Would the program be after school? 

Yesterdays's picture

Exactly why is this a good thing that she leaves for a measly 4 hours? Yes maybe this is after school but still... Doesn't make sense to have a kid that calls the cops on your house live at your house 

TrueNorth77's picture

Tell that to DH. That if a kid tries to get you arrested (and then tells you mere days ago that they PRAYED you would be) they should not be in your house. He is all "everyone makes mistakes"...SHE DOESN'T THINK IT IS A MISTAKE!!! If she did, and was remorseful, this might be a different conversation. But she doesn't care! 

And yeah, the 4hrs is apparently a break for me? So I should be happy? Because he's working during that time and I WFH. That's when I was like, hold up WHY would SD be here?? You said you were refusing visitation! So the day program times are either 8am-noon or 1pm-5pm. During summer it's no problem, but they said depending on the kid it can last 6wks to 5 mos. So this could go well into the school year, in which case she would be missing a huge chunk of school (the afternoon one would make the most sense, otherwise she would miss the majority of the day). Her grades have already dropped a ton since she's been with Crazy FT- she was on the honor roll when it was 50/50- since refusing to come here, she is down to a 2.4 or something. Idk. She needs this so I guess they work with the school to make it doable, but. She also has a job so she will need to fit that in somewhere this summer. She gets her temporary license in a few weeks when she turns 15 and blew all of her $ so she has nothing saved to buy a car, which is the rule.  

I honestly can't even believe this right now. I want to scream. It NEVER ENDS. 

Harry's picture

He trying to take the easy way out.   First of all SD has to be aspected into the program. be back on her meds. And actually do something in this program.  These government funded programs need to show progress with there patients.  

SD is not going to play along with this. But you still have another 20 hr a day plus's weekends to Beal with her.  
'JUST SAY NO.   in a year if SD is doing well in said program, we will revisi staying here 

Yesterdays's picture

I agree he is looking for the magic cure, or easy solution here when a hard dose of reality is needed. My husband was like this too. He would talk hard at first and then the more time that passed the more he softened on issues just thinking that time alone would solve these things.

Yesterdays's picture

I think that I would wait to see what the lawyer says before deciding anything. I'm really interested to see what they say. 

TrueNorth77's picture

I honestly don't know if he is going to call the new lawyer. He now has it in his head that SD will change and this is fixable. UNLESS, she goes off again this week, because as someone else said, men have little patience for this, and he really doesn't either- he just has a very short memory. 

Cover1W's picture

I can see my DH doing this too. He's even said he'd bend over MORE for the SDs if he could do it again. I made it clear I would not be there, even today, no.

I know my DH is struggling now, but really, after 4 years of therapy there's been some improvement but overall he's STILL extremely focused on them and it 100% is effecting our marriage and he knows it. I think I'm also being framed somehow as part of the problem. But no proof of that. I've been disengaging a bit with DH here and there actually. Figure it out DH. PAS effects everyone.

Anyway, hard line. Keep strong, make your boundaries clear and follow through!

TrueNorth77's picture

DH said if he didn't try, he would end up being depressed and regretful. What he's failing to understand is that the issue isn't him trying- the issue is him expecting SD to come here for a full week like nothing happened, with no progress, and me being stuck with her in the house the majority of the time while he is at work after all that has been said and done, without him considering that maybe, just maybe, there is another solution other than that. Maybe she stays away until progress has been made. He can attend therapy with her. Go to dinner or mini golfing or the things he actually doesn't love doing with her because she sucks the life out of it. Whatever, you want to do it so bad, go do it, but don't act like her just being in our house with me where he talks to her occasionally is "trying". 

Winterglow's picture

He wants to TRY? "OK DH, she spends every waking hour with you. You go to therapy with her and she goes to work with you, no ifs or buts and if you cannot do that then don't expect anyone else to do it.'


ItsGrowingOld's picture

By you "helping" your DH find the 4 hour a day counseling put YOU in a no win situation.  You are not helping him but hurting youself.

Never ever care about stepkids more than the bio parents.  EVER!  If your husband really wanted to help his daughter HE would be doing the legwork on counseling, etc.

Disengage, fully and completely.  Your sanity and happiness depend on it.

Yesterdays's picture

He took the idea and ran with it and will probably now turn it around and say it was her idea.. I think that it's going to be the time for some boundaries. 

dragonfly878's picture

That's why I suggested calling DCF- that way DH can't change his mind on a whim about her staying once the state is involved... these programs are a band-aid and can't undo bad parenting.

What if you called DCF but asked to remain anonymous? Tell them what's up and they can say they got a tip that there was an issue...

If he can make unilateral decisions that impact your family- so can you. Just call and then if DH asks either play dumb or tell him you called looking for resources and when they heard what was happening the decided to investigate.

TrueNorth77's picture

So I actually did call them, and so did DH, but we both ended up talking to a crisis counselor, who refered us to a new-ish resource that helps keep the child IN the home in times of crisis. So if they are acting up, you call the number and they will work you through the problem. 

I'm curious what you were thinking though? What other options do you think there are?

dragonfly878's picture

I'm not sure... kids get removed when the home is unsafe.... might they remove the kid when the kid is unsafe? They'll want to keep the kid in the home as that's more cost effective. But if you don't feel safe in your home bc of the kid- they must be able to remove them I would imagine?

or- have her emancipated? She wants to be grown? Let her... she can live in a shelter as I'm sure she doesn't have the means to support herself.

AgedOut's picture

I'm a hard ass so I think, after rereading all of this, that it is as easy as this: she deliberately lied about you two and didn't care that you could have been put in jail. He can stay w/ her at his moms and if she won't allow it then he needs to really think of why


Rags's picture

Don't let him back out. Force the custody change and have a SParent T-shirt made for you to wear anytime DH starts smoking the Hope-ium pipe with this POS kid.

"Smoking the SParent  toxic Skid Hope-ium pipe since (wedding date)"

Let DH see it, let toxic SD see it. Every time.


notsurehowtodeal's picture

You need to establish a hard boundry - now. You cannot be alone with this girl. Either DH is home when she is, or she is not there. This should start now, not at some point in the future. If DH wants to risk getting arrested, that is on him, but there is no reason for you to take a chance. If he won't agree to this, then either he moves out or you do. I understand it is easy for me to say this and hard for you to do it, but SD is a direct threat to both of you.

Harry's picture

It's up to DH to work it out. With a plan and a second and third plan if first one fails , sane as second one fails.  
You don't even know if SD is going to go to this 4 hr program?   Or take her drugs?  Or not get thrown out the first day ?   
'Your DH is a major problem.  His head is up his ass,   He can not go to work and expect everyone to clean up after him 

Why can't DH take a week vacation and stay with DD the first week ?

TrueNorth77's picture

Well, the issue is that all of DH's vacation is set aside for a trip to Europe in Sept. for him and I, my brother and SIL. If he used it now he wouldn't be able to go, which I absolutely do not want. I would prefer to have SD sleep all day in her room than him miss that. Which is actually what she did. She slept til 4PM on Friday!!! 3:15PM the 2 days before that! It feels like there is not a winning solution. 

Yesterdays's picture

Whats the arrangement for the near future? Is she heading back to crazy? Where the heck is Crazy? Is she hiding and avoiding?

Is SD enrolled in the 4 hour program? Is it in the evening? Why is SD not going to school? (I know school is mostly coming to an end. My kids just finished exams...)

What is the plan for the summer? Did the lawyer have ideas? 

Yesterdays's picture

Sorry for all the questions. Just curious... I know that things are still being worked out and that is certainly going to take time to figure out.

I do think that Dh is going to have to step up and he should be home if she is home... However that means...its not fair to leave her alone with you. Really or even have her there whatsoever. If she were to make false claims?