Discipline
I'll start with my interpretation of the root cause of the issues, my wife and I do not have the same opinions on discipline.
I know that's the start of most of these things, but it's better to address it right away. She is essentially the kind discipline and I'm the authoritarian discipline. That makes it very difficult when the step child is hers and I feel like my hands are tied to enforce rules in my own household. I've read all the instructions that say to let the biological parent handle the discipline and focus on the relationship building, but there are so many times where relationship building crosses over into discipline that that line gets blurrier than a polar bear in a blizzard.
I have observed on several occasions where her "kind" parenting technique blows up in her face and allows the children (we have one bio and one step) to run all over her. Then she snaps that I'm not doing enough because I'm trying to stay out of the situation that I have correctly predicted to need earlier corrective action. Once she reaches the snapping point, her reactions to everyone are often times very verbally abusive and sometimes more violent than a traditional (spanking, grabbing the neck, etc.) My go/no go gauge is thrown all out of wack and I end up stepping in at all the "wrong" times and with the "wrong" approach.
My wife is also not understanding when I try to explain that discipline is a show of love and she cannot say that my desire to discipline is wholly out of a desire to get rid of my step daughter. I guess I'll get on with the most recent example of what transpired today and see if anyone has any advice.
This morning started well, everyone was in good spirits and that's usually a very good sign. We went about our routines and our weather finally broke to give me a chance to mow the yard. While I am mowing I see my step daughter, 4, playing on the new playset that I just rebuildt so she had something to do while wifey and I were working on chores. Our son, 1, was wandering around the playset as it is a little too large for him to get onto by himself. My wife is also in the backyard tending to the garden. As I pass the children on the mower I look over and see step daughter wait until son is standing at the bottom of the slide then proceed to launch herself down and plow into him. I stop the mower and ask her what that was. I then explain that if I see her do it again, I am going to hold her at the bottom of the slide and slide over her. No intention of doing it of course, but it needed to be a serious enough statement to evoke an understanding of what she just did. With that mom comes running over and says "no he won't, what happened, why is he yelling at you?". The step daughter turns to me and says "mom says that..." And I proceed to flip my lid. I've now been discredited in front of her, no connection to her action has been established and in her eyes it has become mom and me against step dad.
So I basically yell at a very loud volume "and I said not to do it". Cue the waterworks and the sympathy from Mom and I resume yard work since Mom has taken her side instead of performing the discipline that needs to go along with trying to hurt your little brother. I get done the mowing and as I'm cleaning the mower off out of sight, she does it again which the wife catches. Then she has the nerve to say the second time was an accident. We sit her down and have a "talk" in which step daughter is very distracted trying to run off every minute and finally when we decide it's ineffective, we all get loaded into the car and head to the local street fair.
There was just a minor incedent at the street fair, but it added to my frustrations of the day. At one point we pored some water on a plate for the dog. The plate was full enough and the dog had already drunk it's fill. Step daughter grabs the water bottle and goes to put more on the plate. Wife tells her no so she moves slower but still deliberately in the action of attempting to pour the water. I stick my finger in the bottle to plug it and say "your mom told you no, you need to start listening". I will openly admit the tone was harsh, but the volume was normal for my voice and the words were as above. Somehow that reaction elicited a "you don't need to be so mean, she was just trying to help" from the wife. Not one to back down from what I considered be a reasonable response I replied that "just trying to help is not an excuse for disobedience". We moved on but the tension is rising.
We then proceed to my parents house for mother's day. At one point my SD is eating a chocolate chip cookie and walking around with it. With three dogs running around I calmly explain that the dogs cannot have that and she needs to sit to eat it. Sidenote, sitting to eat is a household rule, but I seem to be the one to notice and point it out most frequently. My father furthers the information by explaining to her that dogs cannot have chocolate so she cannot let the dogs have any. At some point, even sitting down, she drops a large piece and one of the dogs very rapidly devours it. I observe this and she sees me watching. I grant that the piece was an accident and the dogs are much too fast for the falling food to have a chance. She then breaks a piece off of the remaining section in her hand and goes to feed it to the other dog. I react with a "No don't do that, we just told you why you can't do that". She responds with but there is no chocolate in this piece. My wife jumps in with "you were being a good girl just trying to share but you can't tell there wasn't chocolate in that piece". Again the waterworks and reassurances from mommy. I guess maybe this shouldn't be as frustrating as it is, but I can't help but see my SD looking at an instruction, modify the constraints and trying to sneak some disobedience in. I get it, that's how kids are, but it just feels like emphasizing the "excuse" instead of the following instructions lesson is whitewashing the behavior.
The final kicker of the day was when we were later playing in the yard. At one point a toy car was sitting unattended. The toddler opens the door and is performing his awkward attempt at climbing in when she comes sprinting from about 10 feet away and slides into the car knocking it away from little man and herself. Fortunately he was far enough back and wasn't hurt. SD immediately starts trying to get into the car and wifey has finally started trying to discipline. In the meantime, little man and I go over to his little plastic slide and he starts climbing up. While her mom is trying to "explain" why it was wrong, and make her stay out of the car, SD gets in and out several times and interrupts the explanation to ask "ok can I get back in the car now". When exasperated wife says no you aren't allowed in the car, SD goes to the slide which little man has just gotten to the top of and pushes him down it head first so she can play on the slide. Fortunately I catch him before he hits anything, but now it's my turn to discipline again. I know SD dislikes it when I get loud so I tell her "i'm getting loud because you obviously don't want to listen when your mom gets you something nicely. That is enough of hurting your little brother and it is not going to happen again." Wife again jumps in, "she's justa little girl and you're scaring her" SD, now emboldened by mommies defense "yeah..." And I just started yelling about " how the behaviors are going to change or she's going to get a lot more yelling, blah blah," pretty useless for getting any kind of positive change. And mommy and SD walk off.
After that, when they came back SD walks up and just says hi, and I reply that if she remembers all the times I got mad today it was after she hurt her brother and that she needs to be nice to her brother. She runs off to play and my wife says "you can justify it however you want but she thinks you don't love her and if you don't love her then you don't love me."
So... I guess I'm hoping for some insight here. I know yelling and screaming is supposed to be ineffective, but it works to interrupt the behavior which is more than I get from wifeys "explanation" approach. It's super frustrating that I know this comes from a place of love. I want the best for all of us, but I don't know how much more I can back off the discipline without sacrificing some major behavioral issues.
- Trantis07's blog
- Log in or register to post comments
Comments
I am guilty of cutting in on
I am guilty of cutting in on my husband while he is disciplining and so is he. This is something we have worked on and have gotten better at. I would suggest having a conversation with your wife without the kids around. Explain how you feel and your concerns. If dw doesn’t make a conscious change then I would suggest disengaging from sd and I would not leave your son alone with sd. Another thing, I was concerned in your post that your wife becomes physical beyond spanking and grabbing the neck? This is most definitely not ok and I would call the cops on her. Your kids’ safety is most important.
Apologies
Re-reading that section I do understand that I worded it in an emotionally charged manner. I don't really feel that the kids saftey is in danger, it's more she will do stuff like shove me, or throw a dish into the sink. It's never been physically directed towards the kids, but the everyone part of that comment was in reference to the verbal abuse.
4 YO seems resentful
I would suggest family counseling to help her find her voice, and for everyone to come to an understanding. I do not understand why with a 4 YO and a 1 YO, both parents are working on the lawn. 1YO is just walking and can get into all types of danger. I think you need to simplifiy your life, and both of your need to accept that your lawn is not going to win the beatuiful garden of the year. If the only way 4 YO gets attention is to do bad things, she will do it.
If after counseling, wife will not accept your dealing with her kid, any time there is a problem tell her.
Sounds like neither of you
Sounds like neither of you are any good at discipline. Your wife coddles then explodes into abusive behavior, and you just yell and make empty threats. I think both you and your DW need to take some parenting classes and probably do some counseling to learn how to maintain a healthy blended family.
Your SD is never going to listen to you so long as DW keeps rescuing her. So, you need to stop trying and let your wife deal with the full effects of her daughter's behavior. Here is how I would have handled the situations above differently:
- When she slid down and knocked over your son, I would have stopped mowing, grabbed him to take him inside, and told DW what happened and to handle it. If DW didn't handle it in a way that you felt was appropriate, then you can disassemble the swing set (natural consequence to using it to hurt someone) or not allow both your DS and SD to use it at the same time (this would mean you and DW would have to take shifts in doing chores so that someone is always watching the toddlers).
- Let her pour the water for the dog. The dog isn't going to drink it, and then it causes SD to actually misbehave in front of DW. I'd take the dog and walk away, allowing DW to handle the clean up and discipline.
- When SD pushed DS out of the car, you pick up SD out of the car, put DS in it, and tell her that DS was there first and to wait her turn. When she pushed him off the slide, I would have picked up DS, told DW what happened and to handle it.
- When says that you don't love her child so you must not love her, you say: "No, I don't like how your poor parenting Is turning SD into a bully toward her brother and me. Do not use excuses that I don't love your daughter or you to change my behavior when she is physically hurting our son. It is truly unacceptable that you are trying to make me feel guilty for trying to keep everyone safe. If you don't like my discipline style, then let's talk about that. But don't try to shift blame from discipline strategies to me not loving either of you enough." Basically, I'd call her on what she is trying to do and walk away until she was ready to talk change. "Are you ready to talk to me about how we are going to be a team when we discipline? No? Then I have nothing further to add to this conversation. I have said my peace."
You can't make your DW change. You don't have to be the disiciplarian for SD. She isn't your child, and if your DW wants to raise her differently, then so be it. I do wonder why you think it's okay for your son to grow up in a home with his mother being abusive. Do you have a plan on how you are going to protect him, and SD, should your wife continue to lose it or it escalates? Your ability to protect SD is limited, but it's your moral and legal responsibility to protect your DS.
Ultimately, you can't make DW change, but you can back off on disicipling SD, especially if your only tool to use with her is yelling. If she does something wrong and it doesn't put her in danger, tell DW. If she hurts DS, take him out of the situation, tell DW, and don't allow SD and DS to play together without supervision. If chores don't get done, or DW has to do them all, then that is a natural consequence to her inaction as a parent. Eventually, if nothing changes, you'll have to decide if this is what you want for you and your son.
Also, you need to learn how to discipline your DS because he's eventually going to start picking fights and hurting SD. And that behavior will be worse if you and DW don't learn some non-violent/abrasive tactics for dealing with poor behaviors. It shouldn't surprise you that SD wants to hurt her little brother when she watches DW yell and throw things. Don't be surprised, either, when your son starts doing the same.
Neither one of you are great
Neither one of you are great disciplinarians, IMO. You react too harshly and then she comes in to rescue her child. Did you really tell a 4 yo that you were going to plow over her coming down the slide to show her how it feels? Then scream at her when she tried to do it again, you know, like a 4 year old would? Yes, she knows it hurts her brother, that's her goal, to hurt him. Why not just remove her from the slide and put her in time out?
Frankly, I was freaked out by you mowing the lawn right past a toddler and a preschooler while your wife paid zero attention to the situation. There was a case here where a man ran over his 4-year-old with a mower, and it was horrific. Didn't see that he had come to stand right behind the mower and backed right over him.
I'll be honest, you do sound like you are harder on SD, in an ineffective manner, than you would be on your own kid. It takes a ton of chocolate to poison a dog, but if you don't want her walking around with a cookie, then insist that she come sit down and eat her cookie and don't let her move until it's done. If you don't want her pouring water in the dog's dish, take the bottle from her and say, "I asked you not to do that, give me the bottle."
You are both going to be protective of your bio children. While your wife could work on not being such a softie, you could work on not being harsh too. it's not uncommon for people to become polarized as parents, and each go further towards their natural parenting preference - she gets more rescue-y, and you get tougher.
If you two can't have a conversation about how to manage SD's behavior, get some counseling to help.
In a playground scenario
Parents would be demanding that the parent of the 1 YO keep him away from the slide. We cannot tell if the 1 YO is trying to impede his sister or what. All we can tell is that both the parents are univolved. Of course, 1YO does not understand he should stay away from the foot of the slide. His parents SHOULD. And they should both put the 1YO ahead of gardening.
In a playground situation,
In a playground situation, agreed, the 1-year-old should be removed. But in a sibling situation, the 4 yo should be expected to not hurt her brother, but ask for a parent to remove him so she can play.
We agree on not watching the 1-year-old while the father is mowing. Yikes. I don't even let my dogs outside when DH is mowing and they are smarter than a 1-year-old.
From reading your thoughts, I
From reading your thoughts, I think you have the right idea on discipline, it just comes out more harshly because you are frustrated by your wife's complete lack of it. She is a weak parent and her guilt is causing her to treat her children differently from each other. I have a feeling once little bro is able to defend himself, she's going to lose her shit on him for hurting her precious "good girl."
She also has a very warped view of love. If you don't love her bratty kid, you don't love her?? That is nonsense and you guys need a qualified therapist experienced in stepfamilies to show her that's twisted and wrong of her to lay on you.
Just a few questions: where is Biodad? Does your wife support your SD having a relationship with her father? Or did she replace him with you and expect you to play daddy from now until she finds a new one?
Someone needs to watch 1 YO
With a 4 YO and a 1YO, ONE parent has to focus on kids. ONE parent has to give up on gardening. The kids are more important than gardening.
Even if dad takes the 4YO on some weekends, one parent needs to watch the 1YO.
We don't know the layout of
We don't know the layout of their yard. Mom could have had a clear view of the kiddos while she was gardening. We don't know if dad was on a riding mower or if he was walking behind a push mower. I'm not going to bitch and moan about things I can only speculate about when there are obvious problems to discuss. I let my 3 year old play in the yard while I'm gardening all the time. I'm not one of those parents whose up her kid's butts every moment, trying to save him from skinned knees.
This is a 1YO
It does not seem like mom got up from her gardening to deal with this. A 1YO is not a 3YO
I agree. Mom didn't feel
I agree. Mom didn't feel bothered to intervene with her daughter being a little shitbird bully toward her little brother. That is wrong. I'm sure that happens in the living room just as well.
Not clear to me what is going on
Is 1YO annoying older sister? Happens all the time.
All i can say is the parents are absent. That needs to stop
Right. "Absent." Because
Right. "Absent." Because siblings never bicker as soon as their parents' backs are turned. And parents must be constantly hovering or they are "absent." What a crock.
Dad saw the problem and addressed it. If mom doesn't like how dad addresses it with her daughter, she should get off her ass and do it herself.
And you are seriously blaming the baby? If little bro was being annoying, the skid should have told on him to mommy and I'm sure the "good girl" would have been saved from the mean old baby. She doesn't get to plow him over because he was making baby noises or whatever you would consider "annoying" baby behavior. Good freaking lord.
No, I am blaming the PARENTS
If he was annoying, they need to pull him away. I am not talking about noises, I am talking about him blocking the slide. One of them needs to put down the mower or gardening tools and pick up the 1YO.
If he was intentionally
If he was intentionally blocking the slide (not buying that for a 1 year old) the 4 year old should have told her parents and let them handle it. It is never OK to plow a kid over. I don't care if he was singing show tunes off key while dancing the Macarana at the foot of the slide and blasting a kazoo kind of annoying. Not OK. But you will defend shitty behavior from a skid for any reason. Gross.
But you defend
Shitty parenting? they both need to give up on their gardening and watch theri kid.
I am not defending the shitty
I am not defending the shitty parenting of the mom. Dad did stop mowing and parent the kids, so I say good on dad. If mommy thinks he's being too harsh, she should have addressed it herself, but she chose to ignore it.
Absolutely
I one hundred percent agree. It is a common occurrence that I will watch the kids and when the DW steps in to take over so I can do something around the house, she continues doing some other chore. We have had so many arguments about making sure she takes more breaks and just hangs out with the kids but somehow it is always perceived as saying she doesn't do enough.
I'm just as much at fault for the example in the OP because knowing she is like that I should have quit trying to mow as soon as I realized she was not supervising the kids.
Staround
from what i read the 1 yr old was not blocking the slide. He had just climbed up it at which point the 4yr old rushes and pushes him at which point the op sees this and catches his son just in time before falling and potentially hitting his head on the slide or ground.
Responses
After rereading through this and taking in the comments I have come to some summary points.
The first is that yes, I do think I'm being a shitty step dad because I don't appreciate my behavior in all of this. Fortunately, I have reached out here demonstrating that I desire help and wish to improve. Admitting being shitty doesn't make me forever shitty.
Second major point, I think my SD's behavior is a reflection of her mother. I do forsee him being able to defend himself and having to go to bat for him the same way she is doing now. I don't want that. As much as I think I would derive pleasure from seeing him get revenge, and making DW face the music, it needs to remain in the realm of fantasy.
Today I decided to take SD out for a shopping trip, just me and her. I can't even emphasize enough how wonderful the trip was. She was that "perfect angel" that everyone else always sees. It is not like this was limited to today either. Any time I get time without DW around (one on one or both children and dog) she acts great. I'm now starting to wonder what it is about DWs presence that makes SD act out.
It's really difficult to have discussions with DW because it's always a focus on my behaviors which I openly admit aren't my preference, but are also reactionary. I don't want to place blame on DW if it is not hers to shoulder, but at the same time when the shoe fits... If the behavior is good when mommy isn't around and when mommy is around it slips regardless of my presence, I'm just a blip on SDs radar and mommy's parenting needs work. But her parenting style is this new "focus on the emotions" thing that is mostly theory. I have never seen a way to modify an emotion directly without behavior. I want to make an analogy to describe the equivalent of what I am feeling. If the emotions are a DVD, the behavior would be a DVD player or computer. She is trying to watch the dvd by holding it up to her eye while the dvd player in the corner is smoking. First we need to fix the dvd player (the behaviors) then we can watch our movie, and if we don't like part of the movie (emotions) we can change it with the dvd player.
We did try couples therapy for a couple sessions and I've got to say for the expense, we really didn't take any value from it. Sure I got someone to hear my reasoning but every time we got back to the car it was either I talked too much or the one session I actively held my tongue, she felt it was too short. Her messages are too convoluted to form a cohesive thought in an hour session. I know that about her and love her regardless but unless there were a counseling session that had an open timer for a fixed rate, it's better to let her sort them out in discussion after discussion at home and eventually have a small pile of thoughts stripped clean of defense mechanisms.
On the biodad front, we have a good working relationship. He lives 2 hours away with a relatively new SO. For the most part he tries to be involved in SDs life as much as he can and he does a good job with her as far as I can tell. For the first year and a half of our marriage we kept SD on week days and he had her on weekends with the hectic holiday trade offs that come with mixed families.
My DW states that she wants SD to have a relationship with her father, but I question what that really means to her. At the beginning or our marriage, DW and I were discussing living arrangements and I stated that I needed to live close to my job. I was immovable from the fact. There were several logical reasons for this, but basically the highway system around us required an increase from the 5 minute commute I had (and still have) to a minimum of an hour just to take her drive time from an hour and a half to a half hour. There was nothing affordable half an hour away and no residential areas in the 45 minute time that had access to the highway between our two houses. So DWs argument was that SD needed her father and I said ok, so figure out how to make it 50-50. DW is a SAM so she has flexible hours, make Biodad figure out his half. Of course the only proposed solution was to move closer to him. I refused to base my job security on some other man's choice of location (I also live in an area with more job opportunities than he does) and now biodad has moved 2 hours away from us to be with SO. Not a problem because he was getting her weekends, we had her weeks and it was an extra half hour drive twice a week. Still beats the proposed 2 hours a day daily I was being asked to sacrifice.
Within the last month, we swapped weeks for weekends. I continually stressed that I felt it was best to do this as a temp thing because it didn't make sense for their two income household to do put SD in preschool all week while my DW is still SAMing our son. Of course now that it's nearing it's first month, biodad is asking for child support (just "friendly" conversation so far) and we are experiencing these behaviors in SD that used to be spread throughout a week in a short weekend burst.
I continually stressed that getting as close to 50-50 is our most important objective in SDs interests but as step dad, it's been enough in the past to wave me off with that would be too difficult. Or better yet, the DW still hints at our location being at fault.
I do appreciate your input, and agree that the problem seems to be between DW and myself. I just don't know how to sort out her defenses and tell that "she needs to take a much more active part in SDs life". I tried those exact words tonight, but she reiterated my sentence as "so I need to do better." Fortunately I didn't take the bait and said "we are going to put a plug in this conversation before it escalates" and we stopped. We shall see how it all proceeds going forward. Thanks all for contributing.
If BD has SD the majority of
If BD has SD the majority of the time, he should be getting CS. Your DW being a SAHM does not negate her responsibility to contribute financially to her child. If he asks for it in court, he'll likely get it, as he should if he is keeping SD 2/3rds of the month. My recommendation would be to use your state's CS calculator available online and find out how much CS your DW should be paying (using her imputed income) to her ex and start paying it directly to BD if you trust him.
Personally, I think BD should probably take this to court to get the change in custody and CS in writing. Your DW has much she needs to work on in regards to SD, and it may be best if she lives with her BD primarily while DW works on curbing her abusive behaviors. It will be much easier with one kid than two.
I'm glad that you see that you have issues to work on, as does your wife. Might I suggest getting counseling separately so you can each work out your own issues? As you both better yourselves, you may find couples counseling much easier.
Sounds so familiar
This is how it was with my DH and I when it came to SS 5, we also have a 1 yo DD who gets bullied by big brother. DH tries the calm talking effect, as does Nana, the problem is that SS will agree to whatever terms are being given to get himself out of trouble, and yes, his favorite go to is “it was an accident”. But minutes later he will do the exact same thing. Just the other day my DD was standing at the foot of the recliner watching the tv, SS scooted himself down to be able to reach her when he kicked at her and got her right in the face. When DH came in and I told him what happen, SS immediately went to “it was an accident, not on purpose”. I have watched him pull my DD hair for no reason what’s so ever, not even being an annoying baby to those of you who think that’s a legitimate excuse. When she is unhappy and not wanting to be messed with he will squeeze her, not a nice hug, just to make her scream. She is at the point that if SS walks towards her she screams. I remover her most of the time and leave SS to play alone or continue his movie without her there to pick on. DH has the explosions when I’m so fed up that I get on him for not doing anything about it. So in most cases he and I fight in order for him to do more than give SS a “talking” to. He has gotten to the point lately that I don’t yell as much but he is yelling more. And it’s just not him. So now I feel bad for my DD who has to endure the torment of a spoiled brat (at bioM he just stays on an IPad, video game or watching Netflix) and for DH whose blood pressure is way up because idk what to do when it gets so bad I start in on him. I’m sure counseling is majority of the advice I would receive, but it’s not an option. Neither of us believe that is the best step, so here I am trying to learn from real experiences.
Thanks
I appreciate all the feedback. To put some minds at ease, the children were inside a fence and I was mowing with a push mower on the outside of the fence. The fenced area is small (think 50'x50') so nothing can happen inside it that cannot be seen from the outside. DW was inside of this small area doing the garden stuff.
I agree that my discipline doesn't work on SD but so far when the 1yo misbehaves, I can pick him up and remove him from whatever he is doing and if he screams and kicks while I'm holding him, I'm allowed to swat his butt without then getting chastised by DW. Because I'm not interrupted in his discipline, it never escalates past the simple.
It's mostly that my hands are tied from the simple with the SD. DW plays the role of defender and jumps in even before the clear instructions are followed. Then I get angry because it feels like a two against one battle rather than an adult instructing a child.
I agree that my agression is not necessary and am hoping for some suggestions of alternative approaches. One thing to note, when I spend time with SD when DW is not around, it never gets to point of escalation. Instructions are followed and we have a really good time. I just tested it again today and we spent 3 hours just SD and me and there was nothing even remotely resembling bad behavior.
Op the scenario you explained is one i saw many times
With my cousin. Her daughter was about 4 and would do naughty things so grandma who cared for her while her parents were at work would say “no stop it you’re being rude/naughty etc”
she would chuck a tantrum and mum would say “oh did nanna tell you off, oh naughty nanna, we’ll smack nanna” so this 4 yr old learnt to manipulate her way that if she was out of line or did something bad, that if she got told off by one of her parents or grandma or if she wanted something, then all she had to do was bring the waterworks on and someone would rescue her. Same scenario if mum tried to discipline her she would cry and grandma would hug her abd say “oh did your mummy tell you off? Naughty mummy we’ll smack her etc”
She was smart enough as a 4yr old to play the system
i refrain from any discipline of skids and focus on my kids. If any bad behaviours or issues pop up, i tell hubby to address it. I make it clear i want results, Not lip service! Not excuses! I just want results. I have this right to demand it since me and hubby have 2 kids together and we need to ensure skids bad behaviour does not rub onto our kids