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NCP Biodads and Court Costs Observation

thinkthrice's picture

Being on this forum for almost 16 years now by my count,  I've noticed a trend with NCP biodads and court costs.   They can spend oodles of cash on attorneys yet it all seems to be for naught.   HCGUBM's still rule the courts and are taken as saints in front of the authorities.  PASing continues on unabated and the HCGUBMs are never ever called on it.  Some HCGUBMs get quite bold and literally break the law but the courts look the other way.

Meanwhile NCP biodad has basically flushed his hard earned cash (and in many cases, SM's cash either directly or indirectly) down the commode.   They do put up a valiant fight only to lose over and over again to the system.   Then people wonder why dad simply drops the rope and gives up as there is no fighting the PAS.

Frankly I'm glad in my case that Chef dropped the rope early on after five years of our HCGUBM's (Girhippo) scorched earth, neutron bomb, napalm, guerilla warfare PAS tactics.  She learned from the best of the best as HER BM (Battleaxe Galactica) was a serial alienator as well.  Some might say they were far too young to give up but we did NOT have the money that some dads do;  Chef is strictly blue collar and comes from a dirt poor family... and I wasn't about to see my salary eaten up at court, albeit it was actually supporting Chef whilst he paid mega CS.   Especially when I have clawed my way up to a reasonable middle class salary with virtually no college education and after having worked for over 35 (now almost 42) years.

Seems like dropping the rope early on is the best tactic unless you have unlimited funds and are an attorney to boot.

Comments

Aniki's picture

It's so sad that the court system is prone to make BMs the CPs and disregard when they are actually THE worst thing for the children. The archaic court system needs a YUGE overhaul. 

thinkthrice's picture

But I have it on good authority that the system will NEVER change as too many government agencies, attorneys and lobbying groups get rich off of the way it is now.  One of those lobbying groups is, oddly enough, the National Organization of Women.

CastleJJ's picture

We spent $30k and spent a year in court in 2019, asking for joint legal custody and more visitation (more than 6 weeks per year) as a means to reduce BM's toxic warfare against DH. BM loved using her sole legal custody (due to being unwed at time of birth) to abuse DH. DH had spent 7 years going through mediation and settlement hearings to get nowhere and finally had more financial resources to be able to fight BM directly. 

During our court battle, BM lied, made false claims of sexual abuse, attacked multiple family members, falsified sports schedules/documents, and had SS' coach (her BFF) perjure himself via written statement. Every motion had slanderous attacks against DH and myself, including that DH only took BM to court because we got married and I was trying to play house with her son. WRONG. We were sick of her abuse and wanted it to stop. The final straw was BM accusing DH of medical insurance fraud and HIPAA violation after telling BM we were taking SS to the doctor for illness. 

After all was said and done, we gained nothing. DH was denied joint legal custody and was given the exact same visitation schedule he already had. The judge said he couldn't increase visitation due to SS' vigorous sports schedule (read PAS tactic) and denied joint legal custody due to the long distance. The judge told DH to pay his CS and essentially drop rope. Oh and CS went up by $150 per month. DH only brings home 40% of his gross income after taxes, CS, and health insurance premiums and DH makes a mediocre salary at best. 

DH is happy he went to court because he called BM's bluff on all of her threats to take DH to court and now she really doesn't contact us anymore. I think she realized she isn't as invincible as she once thought. Her whole court battle was spent trying to get DH's motion dropped because she felt it was frivolous, but it was denied. The judge found serious issues with her tactics and scolded her several times even though he didn't change the current order. We went from daily emails to like once a month. Her PAS is now passive tactics (like the perfume covered stuffed animal) rather than blatant and aggressive tactic like it used to be. But DH has made it clear to me that we will never go to court or fight again. Not worth it. 

BM and GF are the worst thing for SS, but there is nothing we can do about it, so we just hope that SS will see through BM's antics as he gets older and that karma will come one day. 

thinkthrice's picture

that might put a slight bump in the road for most HCGUBMs but nothing more.  (sigh)  Meanwhile they throw men in prison and take away their professional/drivers licenses etc. for not paying CS (indentured servitude)

CastleJJ's picture

Ah yes, DH was threatened with jail time once. The judge ordered that DH pay BM $3k in arrears that had added up due to a CS increase following a two year court battle when SS was a baby. DH was 21. The judge gave DH 48 hours to come up with the money or a warrant for his arrest would be issued... 48 HOURS for a 21 year old to come up with $3,000. Luckily, FIL gave DH a loan and he avoided jail time. As soon as BM got her money, she leased a new car and bought a new phone. I hate that CS increases go back to the date of filing, so if a court battle is lengthy, the payor owes the difference in arrears all the way back to the filing date, rather than the date the increase was ordered. 

I am just thankful that BM and DH had SS young. DH only has 8.5 more years of CS and he will be 38 (I will be 36) when CS is all said and done. BM will be lost without her extra money while we will be rolling in it after living so frugally for years. I am counting down the days. 

thinkthrice's picture

But when you think of all the money flushed with court costs and CS it is a small fortune.  Chef had three kids which puts you instantlly into poverty.  He had them in his late thirties and has been divorced shortly after the 3rd one was born.  He will be 56 before it is all over with (goes to 21 here in NY)  unless of course by some miracle the last one drops off "early."

advice.only2's picture

I wish we could have dropped the rope! When we got custody of Spawn everybody (our lawyer, Meth Mouth's lawyer, the courts) made it seem like DH getting custody was a done deal. At some point down the line if Meth Mouth got better she could petition for more time, but not custody.

This was not the case, the first two years were tied up with DH going back to court every 3 months because Meth Mouth was on a PC1000 and she could not keep herself clean or out of jail. Once she got arrested and was facing jail time she fled to rehab.

After that stint she went for full custody back and was denied. She was given more EOW but still supervised. After that it was every 3-6 months DH was dragged back to court by that c@nt for five more years. I look at the amount of money we spent on court and lawyer fees alone could have paid for much better things. Finally at their last hearing the judge told Meth Mouth flat out that she was never getting custody back and besides Spawn had a year left until she was 18. No clue why nobody ever told her that from the onset!

thinkthrice's picture

most BMs get custody no matter how bad they've been.  it is a rarity for even a murderess not to get custody.  The odds of winning as a BM in court are extremely high.   The most deceitful attorneys are the ones that represent naive fathers and tell them that they can win when they know damn well they can't win even if they have a halo.   But yet the attorneys gladly take dad's wallet.

ESMOD's picture

I do see a lot of advice to take a HCBM to court and to push for changes in visitation or CS.  Shoot, I have probably also suggested it at times.  But, the reality is that it is costly to wage a court case/battle.  Sometimes it is actually cheaper in the long run to just stick to the status quo on CS.. or visitation because there may not be any real net gain.. and in fact could end up with a loss in the end when you factor in court costs and legal fees.  

I mean, if you are trying to reduce your CS by $200/month.. because you think you really are having the kids slightly more than dictated.. and BM is getting over on you for it.. if the kid is 15 years old.. and assuming CS ends at 18 (I know it goes longer elsewhere).. that is 7200 more dollars you "may" be paying to BM.. but what will it cost you to go after that money?  will it cost 5 or 10K in court and legal costs?  Will the acrimony of the trial further degrade your relationship with your child because HCBM says mean old dad and new wife are picking on her?

I know that we never went to court.. even when DH was not making money and managed to pay the CS.. because the alternative was not good.. court would have been way costly... the kids would have been thrust into the middle and it just didn't make sense to make a bad situation potentially worse.

So, sometimes the right thing to do is just suck it up and pay BM the extra because in the end.. court will maybe not even see a need for a change and the fall out and cost of court is something we want to avoid.  It means bm wins.. which sucks.. but better than losing even worse in the end.

Mominit's picture

If the kids aren't young enough to make 10-15 years of difference, sometimes taking the loss financially is worth the hit to the ego

.  Emotional energy has a cost too!

Mominit's picture

DH and BM split with an excellent separation agreement.  After a bit she decided it wasn't enough and took DH to court.  The very first outing the judge awarded them "temporary" 50/50 access and custody and warned BM that further court was not in her interest.  She didn't listen and pressed on.  The next juge ruled for BM (he said he would, even before DH's lawyer started testimony!).  If we had dropped the rope then, I truly believe BM would have alienated the kids and DH would have had sky high CS with limited influence on the children he wanted so much.  So we appealed.  DH won.  All told, the two of them spent over $150K.  Eventually they came to a mediated agreement.  But BM would not have stopped if DH had dropped the rope.  If his choices were to lose everything, or to fight and lose only money (but possibly gain the kids), he really didn't have much of a choice. Along the way, four out of five judges stood up for DH. If we hadn't had the money (we went into debt) we would have lost the kids, even though in the end the judges sided with DH.

Reality plays a part - if finances are unbalanced, it's very likely the rich party will win.  If finances are balanced, whoever blinks first might lose.  And if you're not willing to lose every penny, with a supportive partner, for kids who are genuinely worth it, there will be a lot of resentment.

Thankfully I'm lucky that my SKs are wonderful, we have been (more than) able to dig ourselves out of the debt we incurred, and it was completely worth it in the end.  But I know that's not how it generally works out. 

CLove's picture

showing some stats (old) that show the other side of the child support argument/question.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/10-billion-in-child-support-payments-going-...

Basically that MOST dads are deadbeat and MOST BMs are deserving of money that they do not get.

BUT there is more to the story (we all know this) and the stats do not take into account the MOTHERS that owe, the money made that is not on the books, etc...

It would be interesting to see the actual statistics as regards all the facets of child support issue.

I know that I think that garnishing seems harsh but its actually kind of the normal thing. I do child support garnishments for 2 employees that make the same $$$ and I do not understand how that works, but I dont know the whole story, either.

I have a feeling that although Toxic Troll is now working, she will go back and file in August, after three years is up.

Precipitated by either something SD15 Backstabber will say or just because she needs more money and things she is "owed".

thankfully only 2 years and 9 more months.

ESMOD's picture

I think taking the stats with a grain of salt is important.  "most dad's are deadbeats".. well, the family courts are still very BM centric.  There are many in the system that still believe that mother is best as the primary caregiver to the children. There are lots of factors that go into it.. and some of it may have a bit of merit when the kids are infants and literally nursing (dad can only do that if mom pumps.. I guess).. but also the old fashioned norms of mom being the homemaker and dad being the breadwinner and family supporter are still behind a lot of family court decisions.

So... because men tend to be more likely to be the higher paid of the couple.. (and BM gets more custody).. Men are going to be more likely to have the generally higher burden for CS obligations.. and therefore they probably default more on that.. because there are just more of them in that population.

And.. it's tough.. my DH didn't have "ridiculous CS obligations".. but it is still tough to see those funds leave your home and go to another.. where you don't control how it's spent.. and often appears to be miss-spent.  But in reality, my DH did have two children.. he should have an obligation to support them.. feed them.. clothe them.. house them.. so it wouldn't be fair for BM to have them more without him being able to assist in that financially.  But.. yeah.. hard to pay that money to someone who is being nasty to you.

MissK03's picture

It is sick what I read on here and what some guys SO knows have gone through with their ex wives.

Considering I am in a flip situation aka BM didn't want her kids anyways.. Something that STILL pisses me off that SO had to pay 2/3 the cost of the GAL because he makes more then double what she did....IMO that cost should have been f'n 50/50. It was strictly suppose to be an unbiased opinion on a custody agreement meaning it could go either way. 

In the quick 3 months we went through court it cost SO 7k. Add another 1k on because we had to pay for 2 of  the skids leases on their phones that BM "got them for Christmas" because at the time she paid for (not really because SO was giving her the $650 NOT court ordered) a very limited cell phone plan for 2 them and after court that bill was coming to us. I added them on to my plan that SO and SS18 were already on at that time. 
 

SO however I feel kind of lucked out in the beginning. If BM actually wanted to see her kids she probably could have gotten a TON of money out of him.. bedsides the 45k he gave her not court ordered. 

So maybe it was better or him she just skated out..

Would it have cost him more if she didn't?

BM only cares about one person and one person only? Herself and how she can benefit. 

Clealry her showing off her new toy last week must be nice for her... still pissed about it haha. 

SeeYouNever's picture

My DH spent 10k in trying to divorce, BM comes from wealth and all she had to do was wait to drain his retainer and then he gave up. It took them over 5 years from separation to divorce decree because BM obstructed and slow walked thinking she could get more. She didn't but it was only because she wanted to marry her next husband so she gave in and finally agreed to the divorce.

Im glad my DH didn't pay any more in legal fees. He would have been paying more to enforce the pitiful custody he's entitled to. People judge and harangue him for not fighting harder. He ran the numbers and it wasn't worth it.

BM is now afraid to recompute CS because we have since had 2 kids. I don't think they would lower it but we'll let her believe. 

Cover1W's picture

Yeah DH got stuck with 100% of the tax bill for BM cleaning out his retirement account when they divorced 10+ years ago. It's going to be paid off next month! FFS.

He will not consider court for anything because of the cost to him and me while BM has daddy.

So rope pretty much dropped.

thinkthrice's picture

on their last joint return when her tax preparer "forgot" to report the fact that the Girhippo had raided all three skids college funds for her now failed several times over businesses.  These were monies that CHEF SOLEY CONTRIBUTED TO whereas the Gir was a sit on her ass SAH so called "mom."   She stuck him with all the marital debt including a dodge caravan he had purchased for her but she threw back in his face... literally left it in a parking lot with keys in the ignition and told him to come pick it up.  She also destroyed or sold 99.9% of his belongings as well.

Cover1W's picture

BM stuck DH with the visa bill because she was mad he bought new clothes shortly before they split and she didn't agree with it. If you knew DH it's amazing he did this at all, I've got to buy clothes for the man or he won't do it for himself. BM is just cheap.

Then the retirement taxes, and he had to pay for 100% of the SDs counselors and mediator sessions and she kept everything in the house but for his suitcase worth of clothing and a very few kitchen items. While she kept the SDs from him. He essentially was left w/out a home, broke and unable to hire a good lawyer. So he got fleeced. At least his CS is fairly low amazingly enough.

strugglingSM's picture

When DH and BM divorced, she agreed to take on the tax debt (she owed $50K to the IRS at that point) and he took on the other debt. He paid off credit cards he didn't even know had been opened. Then, because she was "self-employed" and he was working for the federal government at the time, they started garnishing the tax debt from his pay check. He finally got an innocent spouse ruling (BM owed even more at that point, because she didn't file any taxes the last three years they were married). She works as a CPA, too! I'm sure she reached some arrangement with the IRS where she didn't even pay anything. She committed so much tax fraud that it really makes me wonder why anyone ever gets audited, because she hasn't, ever. 

shamds's picture

When she had her police brother and father threaten to stab and shoot my husband to death for not agreeing to give her more money.

in hubbys mind she was abusive, neglectful, sabotaged hubbys ability to progress in his career with her shenanigans but wanted half of all his koney, half of the house, half of the cash money, half of his superannuation savings.

her idiot budget lawyer had a court clerk somewhat sign or forge a document so it looked like a judge had approved an order for hubbys workplace to give 50% of his salary and superannuation payments to her.

hubby told head of hr he would suit the bank he worked at for illegally giving money to the ex. So when you have a choice between pissing off an ungratefult psycho ex and your head of dept, they worried more anout their employee (my husband)

eventually court judge ordered exwife to get a lumpsum of 30k plus half of profit from the sale of their marital home which my husband bought.

she played a whole innocent victim in court and was cheating on my husband the whole time and had hubby #2 lined up.

all i can say is hubby never had intentions to ever remarry again after the divorce, its hell to navigate 

ExhaustedByItAll's picture

All up it was about $25k spent over 4 years, most of that for the final trial. We are not in the US, though the process is similar.

In our case, BM lost. DH was never going for full custody or even 50/50, He got exactly the visitation schedule that he asked for, he got joint parental responsibility because he was able to prove BM a liar and prove that she was medically doing some bad things to the kids.

That said, the court process was horrendous and took a serious toll on both of us, we were emotionally damaged and the added abuse that DH had to suffer from BM was unrelenting and in no way recognized or punished. DH, as the dad, was basically guilty of everything BM accused until he proved himself innocent. She could make up whatever she wanted, she did not have to supply any evidence other than her words, he had the burden of proof to show she was lying. And that is exactly what is wrong with the system. All men who go to family court are automatically viewed as domestically violent, deadbeat, abusers by everyone involved in the process, judge included, until they prove they are not. Because of all of that he won't do court again, ever.

But had he not fought, his kids would be gone. More than likely, he never would have seen or heard from them again, BM would have up and moved to another part of the country, changed their last names, and played happy family with the now ex-sucker #2. That was her plan.

strugglingSM's picture

We've dropped the rope to a point, but it means me reminding DH regularly that we are only following the agreement, no changing, no deals, no negotiations. BM is now pushing for money for "college", even though neither SS will be able to complete college coursework and one is already one credit short after one year of high school (and after a year where the school seemed to take it easy on everyone due to COVID)...so, I'm just hoping he graduates on time, so the official CS agreement will end. We will need to save up some money for a lawyer to reach some passable agreement for BM's "college" demands. We spent $17K for a mediation last time and the only thing DH got was that BM has to drive skids to our house for visitation on Friday evenings (which she doesn't even do, she asks DH to switch every weekend...and then has someone else drive them - not sure who since I've only seen the car, not the driver). He also supposedly got every other Christmas, but both BM and MIL conspire against that, every.single.year. In return, he now pays more CS than he owes under the state calculation (based on income) and BM still complains that he's not paying enough and has SS complain that DH is not paying enough. BM got this despite not budging on anything and despite DH's documentation that he paid a good chunk of her tax debt (that she agreed to pay as part of their divorce decree). 

bananaseedo's picture

I don't blame men at all for not even trying to be honest.  They are well aware, depending on the state, county or judge they use what their chances are.  Why spend all that cash that can benefit your home AND your children on attorneys/judges getting rich when you will just get nothing.

The ideal situation in most cases- is 50/50 shared parenting-with no CS unless there is a big income disparity, like 33pct or more then the other parent-that's JMO though.  Give one parent final say in school/education the other in medical.  The only reason they don't do this (which would benefit both the parents and children) is because attorneys/judges/courts would lose money big time.  Also the state child support services would lose massive income (especially the federal match).  

Example-a mom stayed home to support her husband (not a stay in bed mom like Girhippo btw)- but truly was there for him/the family- then 50/50 but perhaps she receives CS for a few years until she can get up to speed with job or education, etc.  Fair is fair.  Or if there is a huge income disparity-mom is making 100k a year, dad makes 25k- then mom pays a reduced portion of CS for a determined amount of time, etc.  

Right now the only ones benefiting from the wars are NOT the families they are 'serving'.