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Mixed feelings and a bit of a rambling rant

The_Upgrade's picture

DH is looking into counselling to address his issues about SD. I'm happy because I think counselling is a step in the right direction but some of the things he says makes me uneasy. Like how he really wants to have a relationship with her, etc. And when he asked me for my thoughts I asked what was the point of going to counselling? To chase your daughter who wants nothing to do with you or to set up better boundaries and move on with your life? And he says he wants her in his life and to get to a healthier spot.  I’m sure if he lands a decent therapist they’ll point out that you can’t maintain healthy boundaries while you debase yourself to buy crumbs of affection. 

Then the subject went to the topic of SD’s present and how he was supposed to get it to her when she won’t meet up with him. Let’s have a moment to think about how fked up it is to chase someone down to give them a present! I suggested just send it by registered post and call it a day. And when he was unsatisfied with that comment i took my filter off and said she's probably gonna toss it or sell it for money. I wish I could engrave a message on there “to cashies staff, the person flogging this piece is a c*nt!”

So we’ve gone from talking about possible counselling to me calling his daughter a c*nt. This is a girl who was happy to stick her hand out and take her ailing grandmother’s jewellery while refusing to see any extended family since her parents separated. Her three years as an adult only reaching out to DH with invoices for him to pay, expecting maintenance while working full time on her own and living with BM. DH has been to hospital multiple times and he’ll be lucky if she bothers to send a text that starts with “hope you’re well” before she launches into the real reason for contact - money. Pretend she’s any other person than your daughter. What would you call someone who does that kind of stuff? He had no response to that. Probably because a little voice in his head was supplying the answer: “a c*nt!”


tog redux's picture

How old is your SD?

He should send her a Birthday card and be done with it. When my SS was alienated, DH bought him gifts and they were here for him when he finally started speaking to DH again.  He just texted him a happy birthday on the day.

My SS is no longer alienated but he still can't be bothered to wish DH happy anything, EVER.  Your DH has to realize that of course he wants a relationship with his daughter - but if she doesn't want one with him, there's nothing he can do.

The_Upgrade's picture

Turning 21. I told him to just send a card but he said "just this year because it's her 21st". And I thought it wasn't a hill worth dying on when there were so many other hills in sight. Telling him that there's nothing he can do if she's unwilling and getting it to sink into his head is another matter. Fingers crossed for counselling. But part of the reason I took the filter off was because that's my and his own family's opinion of BM and now SD. We don't think that for no reason. If he's getting upset at our low opinion of SD then he's still got his blinds on about what kind of person is daughter really is and that fake vision is what he's chasing. 

shamds's picture

they are so pas’d out they don’t even wish hubby a happy bday

before he met me he would jump through ridiculous hoops for them till he realized its no way to live like this for such selfish ungrateful disrespectful people.

there are moments he may message them and in the early days after we married and sd’s reinitiated contact, hubby everyday threw himself asking if they got home and what they were eating for dinner, basically reiterating the world revolved around them further enabling their behaviour.

i told hubby if he didn’t do this for a week what would happen?? I guaranteed they could not give a stuff about hubby... i was righr!!

skids daddy is only useful as an unlimited atm and favours, thats all

Movingonisbest's picture

Shamds, you said "I told hubby if he didn’t do this for a week what would happen?? I guaranteed they could not give a stuff about hubby... i was right!!" You are definitely right. I remember one time when my ex was trying to persuade me to be in a relationship with him again I told him if he really believes his adult kids care about him or want to be in a relationship with him, stop giving them money and see if they stick around. I told him he already knew he would never hear from them again. Needless to say he didn't try it. But you are right, we can see the truth.

You said "skids daddy is only useful as an unlimited atm and favours, thats all." You are absolutely right. My ex was acting as an atm for adult kids he hadn't seen in several years. Smh

shamds's picture

Like they are incapable of being financially independent and made themselves more incapable than a kindergartener is ridiculous and pathetic.

i will not tolerate that anymore and its a reason why we can never have a happy marriage when i never sogned up for a hubby supporting lazy arse adults out of guilt because daddy divorced mummy. If they are still sulking about that then they need to grow up. It happened over 11 yrs ago... 

heck i moved on with my life and was working within a year of my parents divorce as i had just finished high school 

no one babied or pandered to me

hubby wants to retire in another year or 2, i will be sole income earner then as i would have finished my studies. Hubby is adamant no financial support will go to skids as they are on their own. No money of mine is going to them and hubby will not be sacrificing money for our household from part time work for their lazy arses

Movingonisbest's picture

Shamds, you are absolutely righr. And I don't know anyone who has adult kids that are not independent. Someone told me the reason my ex's kids don't work enough to be independent or work for what they really want, us because they don't want anything in life. I know one thing, given that my adult kids are independent, I was totally taken back when I found out my ex's adult kids regularly call him for money. He is enabling them. Some of them are still having kids they know they can't afford to take care of. 

ITB2012's picture

OSS19 has barely seen DH and not for lack of DH trying. Kid wouldn't even drive the 20 minutes here to grab his own bday present. And DH wrang his hands on how to get it to him. Drove to BMs. Talked a total of five minutes and drove home. There's more crap and I pointed out to DH that he doesn't take that kind of behavior from the young people near OSSs age that report to him (DH). Why would he take that from his own son? That DH set it up to be that way and displayed similar behavior so is reaping what he sowed. But it's not too late to set boundaries and expectations for their relationship.

tog redux's picture

My SS20 says he'll come over and then is a no-show. He doesn't drive, so it usually means us picking him up and dropping him off, and he still can't manage to get here.

DH doesn't much care anymore, and he certainly would not, and never has, dropped off a present at BM's.

Gimlet's picture

Same here with OSS, although he drives.

I've actually used your words when I talk to DH about the alienation.  I think laying out that he's setting the groundwork for OSS to have no respect for him by groveling to see him has made a difference.

He will always love OSS but he's making progess with letting go of the relationship he wishes he had with him and accepting who OSS actually is.

Iamwoman's picture

I hope the counselor guides your DH towards acceptance of his daughter's lack of interest in a relationship.

I can't imagine a counselor would provide their client with tools to manipulate another person into a relationship... so I think your DH may benefit greatly.

I'm sorry you're dealing with this upgrade.

I completely understand your vitriol towards your skid. It takes a long time and a lot of crap to push stepmother to a place where she cannot even think about forgiving skid for all of the intentional pain.

I've seen some here attack you your for your feelings, which isn't right. Those members simply don't understand how deeply psychologically scarring some of the things these skids come up with can be.
I hope those members never get to that point, but in the meantime, I totally get why you would call your skid a c*nt. At some point, she threw that last straw that broke the camel's back.

I think your DH will come out of this thriving.

From what I've seen of Tog's stories, my own, and few others whose husband's can let go with dignity, of a failed child, he will be fine because he has you to love and support him with the kind of love that only a strong woman with firm boundaries can supply.

tog redux's picture

I think that's the key - some of these guys are able to see who IS there for them (us) and stop focusing on who ISN'T there for them (their rotten kid).


The_Upgrade's picture

I'm not sure if you're confusing me with UpgradeWife - I think we popped onto the StepTalk scene around the same time and I sometimes see her comments confused with mine. Is there a way to change userID? We pretty much have the same SD though so I suppose it doesn't matter too much! 

Thank you for your kind words. To me the mere mention of SD brings up memories of all those times when DH threw me under the bus in his attempts to chase her. Elaborate lies and preplanned financial infidelity. For a while until I found StepTalk DH made me believe the problem was me having a problem about the situation. We've spoken about that and aired it out it but it doesn't change that for a while that's how I felt. Not good times. I'm not inflexible to the point where I will NEVER allow SD into my life, it's just that I have standards and I can't see her ever meeting them. Namely, not being a c*nt.  

Iamwoman's picture

You're right - I did confuse you with her. She has a SS I believe.

But yes, either way I totally feel for you and understand.

And I get the standards. I do not think OSS15 will ever be willing to do what it takes to make up for his evil, horrible ways. So while I technically WOULD allow him back in my life - like you, I simply don't see him setting his ego and self-pitying agenda aside long enough to  even comprehend the amount of damage he has done to his father.

I would never be rude to or hurt someone one of my parents loves. Some skids seem to think it's ok to be evil and nasty just because they aren't happy, and they don't seem to understand that when they hurt their father's wife/BFF/love of his life, they hurt their father deeply.

While Maggot nagged and pressured DH into marrying her, DH had to work hard to marry me and he WANTED to because he loves me. He never actually loved Maggot. Maybe someday skids will see that, as your SD might, but the odds are not good. Most people don't change.

Movingonisbest's picture

Iamwoman you said "I would never be rude to or hurt someone one of my parents loves." I definitely agree with this sentiment. I think that most mentally healthy people feel this way. It's a shame some parents allow their kids to do this.

You said "Some skids seem to think it's ok to be evil and nasty just because they aren't happy, and they don't seem to understand that when they hurt their father's wife/BFF/love of his life, they hurt their father deeply." I can't speak for all stepkids but in the case with my ex, I really don't think his adult kids cared about hurting him or whoever he loved. The thing is them treating their dad or anyone else for that matter, horribly wasn't going to bring joy or happiness to their lives.

You said "While Maggot nagged and pressured DH into marrying her, DH had to work hard to marry me and he WANTED to because he loves me. He never actually loved Maggot. Maybe someday skids will see that, as your SD might, but the odds are not good. Most people don't change." My ex made a comment one day of how bad stepkids would feel if they knew the only woman their dad ever loved was the current woman in his life whether it be his wife, fiancée, girlfriend or whatever. His felt stepkids would wonder why their dad couldn't love their mom like that. I was in disbelief at the time. I told him a lot of things but the main things being if a dad feels this way he should stay single or go rekindle the relationship with the kid's mom.


Iamwoman's picture

So your ex felt it was best to trick his children i to believing that he loved their mother at some point?

Isn't the only result that his kids learn that "love" is completely dysfunctional as they watch the way he treats their mother with no love at all?

I would think it's better for the kids to understand that when two people divorce, it is because they DON'T love each other and maybe never did. This reinforces to the kids that true love doesn't involve divorce or abuse of any kind.

He should want his kids to know what true love looks like.

The way some people think is just baffling to me. These people are only hurting their own children.

The_Upgrade's picture

I would think it's better for the kids to understand that when two people divorce, it is because they DON'T love each other and maybe never did.

There's also nothing wrong with the fact that their parents did love each other at some point, just not now. Who walks into a relationship planning "yeah, you'll do for about 5 years and a kid until I move on". Odds were they got married to the person who at the time they thought was The One. But people change and things happen in life that you don't plan for. And living in the past and unable to roll with those changes is where the dysfunction starts. 

Movingonisbest's picture

The Upgrade, my ex made the comment in relation to something that came up in on a post (not here) and then made a comment about it.Until that day I didn't know he thought like that. Not all kids parents were married, some kids are the product of one night stands, infidelity, etc. So all kids are definitely not created from love.

The_Upgrade's picture

I was more thinking of my SD who can't believe that DH would want nothing to do with BM even though he once made vows to love, cherish and all that. She's still hung up on the fact her dad doesn't love her mum even though she's old enough to have at least one failed romantic relationship to a boy who was once "the love of her life"

Iamwoman's picture

Oh sorry upgrade that comment was not directed at you. It was in reply to the comment I replied to.

Yes, if there was once love a kid should know.

In the above example, and for my DH and Maggot, there was never love there and a kid should know that too. There will definitely be different post divorce vibes when there was no love to begin with.

Basically children should not be lied to. They need a healthy perspective on the world.

Catmom23's picture

Been there, done that.  I'm really impressed your DH is going to see a counselor.  I really hope it helps him.  If the counselor requests you join your DH in counseling you can also shine some light on their behavior...that would be interesting!!!

Please, be careful what you say about your SD.  It can come back to bite you, even years later.  The whole "you hate my daughter, you called her a c*nt" thing.  These men can really jump on that sort of thing.  Don't say anything about her.

The_Upgrade's picture

Bit late for that and he's already used the "you hate my daughter" line well before I opened my mouth. It used to be the line he used to trot out if I expressed any opposition to whatever it was he was planning. A damned if you do and don't trap when he leads with "what do you think?" and god forbid if I spit out an answer that doesn't match his way of thinking. "Oh well Upgrade hates my daughter so I'll do what I want". He knows better than to use it now or ever again.

We've made some progress with that and he's receptive to me calling that bullshit out now. As for calling his daughter as I see it, I try to use less strong words most of the time and lead him to the answer instead. Like instead of calling his daughter a *******, I call attention to specific actions done by her and ask him what he thinks of it. Which labels what she is without directly calling her that. 

Catmom23's picture

Same here.  Lol.  I just try not to give my BF any more ammunition.  Lol.  Good way to go about it like you don't dislike just dislike some of het actions.  Unfortunately I could never even say that because it would still revert back to "You just hate my children!!!"  Uhm, yeah, who wouldn't??? Duh!!!  But i can't say that.  Lolol

Movingonisbest's picture

Iam, there is more than one mom. And I was in disbelief that he even made that statement. But yes I guess he thought it was best to trick his kids into believing he loved their moms at some point. I remember thinking he would rather lie to them than be honest about something like this. Perhaps that could be a part of the reason they have no respect for him. I think he looked at it as not wanting his adult kids to know they weren't created out of love. These are adults, not babies. They are old enough to know that all kids aren't the product of loving relationships. Love is a lot of things, honesty, respect, integrity etc. What he was doing was what would hurt them most in the long run. I was like come on dude, admit your flaws and fix them. For heaven's sake tell them the truth, get your life together, and show them a real example of love. He couldn't do it. He thought that giving them money no matter how horrible they behaved and being dishonest was best. All he is doing is continuing to hurt his adult kids and they are continuing the favor.

thinkthrice's picture

 "I wish I could engrave a message on there “to cashies staff, the person flogging this piece is a c*nt!”




thinkthrice's picture

Dadddeeee and their unrequited love from their mini wives?

I know thay men love "the chase" but come on!!! Dadee's little Princess (or Prince)


Catmom23's picture

I'd like to know that answer as well!!!  I think guilt has a lot to do with it and guilt is a very powerful thing.

Movingonisbest's picture

Chasing someone who doesn't want you, even if it is your kid is pathetic. Who the heck do this girls think they are anyways trying to dictate who their father loves?? It makes me think these girls were nothing more than damaged goods to begin with. I know women on the message board approach the subject with their dh/so differently, some with lots of care and caution, while others not so much. Once my ex's youngest daughter had a horrible tantrum, verbally abused him, and disrespected our relationship at the time, being nicey-nice went out the window. I had so many harsh nanes for her from that point forward that one of my relatives said I renamed the youngest daughter. Hahaaa. I even told him how pathetic he was for procreatung with a crappy woman then acting shocked that his youngest daughter turned out to be a crappy woman. The way I looked at it, he wasn't man enough to fix that issue (later found out his other adult kids have similar  issues too) prior to asking me to be in a relationship with him, so I no longer had respect for him.

SMto2's picture

I hope for your and your DH's sake he goes to a counselor and works through it. The key has to be accepting that there is no "relationship" with your SD and that it's only based on what she can get from him. If your DH is willing to accept that and let go of her, then perhaps you can move forward and be happy. I relate to this so much with my DH and SSs. Unfortunately, not only is my DH unwilling to see a counselor, he is more than willing to accept SSs' crumbs and even justify the shell of a relationship! DH just told me yesterday he knows SSs can't have a real relationship with him because it would make BM mad, and they'd never do that. He also said if he did somehow succeed in having a real relationship with SSs, BM would do something to interfere with it. My SSs are 24 and 26, so I don't expect anything will ever change on that front. Fortunately, they both live hours away and are rarely a factor in our lives.

Movingonisbest's picture

Smto2 your dh sounds like he is stuck in denial and wants to remain there. Did he give a reason for not being willing to go to counseling? His kids are 24 and 26? They should be capable of making their own decisions. Kids NEVER always do what their parents want. They violate curfews (or at least try to without getting caught haha), don't necessarily do chores when told, or do other things that get them grounded when they are under age. They do have minds of their own. So once they are adults they can choose not to have a relationship with others (including a parent) if they want to. I don't fully get why some parents feel they have a right to be in their adult kids life. Even so desperately that they would pay for it. So sad.

SMto2's picture

I honestly don't think he's in denial , because he readily admits the relationship with SSs is terrible. The thing he could be in denial on is his thought that the reason they shun him  (even when they're with him, ie, we just took them on an all expense paid vacation and both posted pics  on FB as though they were there together without DH, me, and our bios) because they don't want to make BM mad. It could be the real reason is, they dislike DH, but who knows? (I KNOW they don't care about me. Lol.) And I think counseling would only work if DH were willing to lose the relationship with SSs, which he's not. He's willing to take what he can get on any terms the SSs are willing to offer.