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Milestone event etiquette as a SM

stepgirlfriendfurmom's picture

Over the past two days, I have seen posts referencing SKID weddings and the “duties” of biological parents. No one has called them duties, but that is just an easy way to reference what I am talking about. As I have only been with my boyfriend 2 years and the SDs are young, there have been no milestone events for them yet. My question though is when these events occur, are us as SM’s supposed to be okay with our SO walking his daughter down the aisle with BM if that is what SD requested? Or taking photos with the SD or SS, both BM and BF plus just their child or children? Or does it more matter on the type of relationship with the other bio parent and the time both parents have been divorced?

 

Personally, I don’t want my SO to be in photos with BM even with their child or children or anything that can be misconstrued as being a “family” still. Am I the big bad SM for feeling this way? My SO does not get along with BM, she is very high conflict and he has no desire to be around her. So it is not so much that I am worried SO would suggest such things, but what if BM or the child/children requests a photo of the 3 of them or the 4 of them? Maybe it more matters more on how recent the split or more importantly if they get along, etc.? For example, I went to a wedding last May for my friend, his parents are divorced and both are remarried, at the wedding, the biological parents walked together and the stepparents walked behind them together to their seats, but then when they got to the front they separated and sat with their spouse all in the front row together. However, my friend’s parents are civil without drama, etc. So is there a right or wrong way to feel about it? I know many would say it is for the kids, but honestly, I don’t think it is right to disrespect your spouse for the kids and pose as a family photo when BM and BF are no longer a family, but have separate families.

 

Just wondering how other people feel on the topic who have gone through this or maybe have older SKIDS. It is not even that I feel insecure about BM or anything like that, but I also am not one who thinks it is appropriate to look like or act like a happy family after divorce especially when one or both of the biological parents have an SO. I just want to know what is proper etiquette for the future so I am not evil controlling SM either, haha. I mean it is not even just about weddings, but graduations, etc. there are many milestone events in a child's life that this could apply to.

Comments

MomMamaMomMom's picture

I think it has everything to do with what the relationships are & by that time you'll know where you stand. In my experience if the ex is toxic the milestones will be too.

stepgirlfriendfurmom's picture

BM has been nothing, but toxic. Even if she suddenly (unlikely) was not toxic anymore, I can't see me changing my opinion on being okay with my SO playing happy family for a photo or something like that. It's not jealousy, I just don't think it is respectful when the SO is now my family, not part of BM's family. Obviously will always be a part of SD's family both of them, but that doesn't mean the divorced parents are family to each other anymore. I don't know maybe I just sound jealous, but that is how I feel now

lieutenant_dad's picture

My view is that the photo isn't of BF and BM being family. It's the SK getting a picture of their family - their parents. I won't argue that there aren't situations where an SK would manipulate that situation, but if the SK has tried to build a good relationship with both parents, they're likely not thinking about the animosity between their parents when they ask for that photo. They're thinking about "I want a picture with my parents".

I've been on both sides - the SK asking for the photo and the SP having to watch the photo being taken. It didn't occur to me when I was the SK that it might be painful for my SF to watch my mom and dad be in photos with me. But, as a SM, I also realize that it was my own insecurities about it that bother me. DH still comes home with me. We still build a life together. If anyone thinks they "win" anything by getting a photo, they're very sorely mistaken.

tog redux's picture

I agree. I know it's frowned upon to take the stepkids' perspective here on Steptalk, but they just want a picture with Mom and Dad. It's not them pretending they are still a family, it's a picture with their parents.

My sister's husband walked his daughter down the aisle with BM on the other side. He then sat with my sister for the rest of the wedding and reception. In this case, they all got along well, and SD wanted both of her parents to walk her down the aisle. Provided the stepmother is not left out (ie, she sits in the back of the church while DH sits with his ex-wife up front), then I don't know why this is an issue.  Why does this bother people? They are her parents, divorced or not.

In our case, DH would not pee on BM if she were on fire, so if SS gets married, and if we are invited, we will sit far away and ignore her.

stepgirlfriendfurmom's picture

I guess it is hard to see the other side of it since from the beginning BM has been nothing but high conflict, so at the end of the day, even if she stopped being high conflict, her messages to my SO saying that she wants to be with him and they are a family, etc. after they were divorced and she knew he was with me, are still in my head. I don’t like that many BM’s after divorce think just because they had a child with your SO first and/or married to them first makes your SO theirs forever which is how SO’s ex views it, then no I really don’t want him in photos that BM is in, unless it is more people than just the child and BM.

 

I know I am only one who their SO’s ex has made obvious plays on their DH when full knowing that they are with someone else. Even though my SO respected our relationship and shut it down, BM did not respect it and I am not inclined to give her any delusions her behavior is okay.

 

May sound stupid and selfish, but just how I feel at the current moment.

tog redux's picture

A high conflict situation is different, the whole event will be a nightmare, and BM will likely try to make you irrelevant, etc - so the walking down the aisle isn't the real issue if the BM is toxic. As someone else said above, the whole event will be toxic.

stepgirlfriendfurmom's picture

it is okay to feel the way I am feeling about things?

I just don't want to be the big bad SM when there are reasons I feel the way that I do whereas if there was no conflict or past history of BM being toxic, probably would be totally different

tog redux's picture

If your skids are young, just cross that bridge when you come to it rather than worrying now. 

ESMOD's picture

a kgarten graduation is really not anywhere near the issue that an adult child's wedding is.  You go to the ceremony.. whoever has custody the day of the ceremony is the PIC (parent in charge).. and the other parent and their entourage (if they have one).. should sit apart from their EX and THEIR set of attendees.  The PIC should allow reasonable contact/visiting with the non-custodial parent at the time.  Then the PIC takes child home.  that's it.. maybe they stop for pizza.

To any extent possible, the two sides don't need to interact very much, if at all at recitals, sporting events and graduation ceremonies.. they are spectators not participants.  a wedding is a bit of a different animal where the bio parent is a participant to some extent as a host etc..

 

stepgirlfriendfurmom's picture

what I was asking was just in general if it is normal and necessary for the SKID to get photos of their mom and dad together plus them and if SM isn't comfortable with it if that makes her evil SM.

It was just an overall kind of question, more leaning towards a HCBM since that is what is in my situation

tog redux's picture

I think that Mom and Dad together is mostly asked for in BIG events, like high school/college graduation and weddings.

Your DH can politely refuse Mom and Dad photos for Kindergarten graduation.  (I can't believe that's a thing, but I know it is. No wonder kids tend to think they are such special beings, we celebrate passing the easiest grade).

Kee-khe's picture

From personal experience, this does not have to be an issue. In my case, I accompanied my DH to SD's kindergarten graduation. As did BM and her BF. We all met SD at the end of the ceremony, each took our own pics, little to no communication at all between either couple. Both of you should just ignore any possible attempts toxic BM might make at causing conflict.

Justthesecondwife's picture

If you aren't making a conscious choice to feel a certain way, and it stems from past issues that actually occurred and hurt you and your marriage (not solely insecurity or personal issues) then everyone has the right to their own feelings.

If it helps, I feel much like you in this situation. I have dealt with a high conflict BM, who has made her best efforts to place herself as the first, and therefore, "real" wife and mother and made our lives hell for years. I secretly dread the day, should it be a possibility as I can't enviage anyone actually voluntering to marry my SD (though my DH married BM who is equally if not more evil - I still will never understand how low his self worth must have been to surround himself with her let alone marry and have one kid with her), of a skid wedding. My SS on the otherhand is lovely, and kindhearted and I'm sure if he ever gets his life together will find someone nice to marry. 

My SS wouldn't plan anything disrespectful in his mind, though he is typical in that he most likely would just go along with what BM said, without realising what it would cast on DH and I. SD would certainly be in cahoots with BM and orchestrate a homage to the failed "marriage" and family they had. Just like she does at every opportunity. 

In my circumstance there would have to be a very dire reason for me to attend SD's wedding, even if I was invited (I dount that would be forthcoming - she refuses to acknowledge the existance of me or our bios). My DH would of course want to go. I am really unsure of what he would do with regard to walking down the aisle with BM. I think he would do it, but not speak to her. I do not think he would sit with her, and I am nearly 100% sure he would not be in any photos with her.

That being said, this is a woman (and daughter) who ruined his life or years in so many ways and continue to with every chance they get, and if he was so weak as to bow down to their desires at the detriment of the vows he took to me I would not be able to have respect for him any longer. 

Where there has been so much toxicity and damage from past choices that have haunted your present and future, I don't blame you for not wanting any photos with your skid, DH and BM. In my experience, regardless of how well the bio parents get along, if there either have a spouse or SO the photos can be with the skid, bio parent and their spouse, and another one with the other bio parent. I may ruffle some feathers, but I really don't see the need for pictures with the skid and both bio parents. What are they going to do with them? Put them up on a wall in their house? Give copies to the bio parents who obciouly won't want a picture of their ex? Put them in the wedding album?

Weddings have plenty of photos, there is no harm in having the separate, particularly if they may cause discontent with someones actual spouse. Perhaps it's just my experience, but I have been to lots of weddings, incuding those with divorced bio parents. I have never seen any of them pose in photos together, or walk down the aisle together. All I've ever seen is married couples acting as married couples, sitting, eating, dacing together and enjoying the event. Reading all these horror stories on here about stepparents being stepped on gives me the chills.

beebeel's picture

I was acutely aware of the animosity between my parents. I'm not sure how any adult, on the verge of marriage, wouldn't be aware of how their parents feel about each other. I took pictures with my dad and pictures with my mom. I wasn't interested in pictures of all our faces in the same frame. Why? So I could have pictures of my parents with awkward, forced smiles at my wedding? Uhg. No thanks.

Justthesecondwife's picture

Even though a wedding is about the couple getting married, they are still the hosts, in most circumstnces, and part of being a host is doing your best to make your guests comfortable. If there are guests who are miserable, due to the actions of the hosts, that is their failing. Who would want to have a wedding where people are not haing fun? It is supposed to be a fun celebration!

If only people could be a little bit more sensitive to the feelings of others, instead of just themselves, they could all enjoy a celebration which is looked back on with joy, not horrible memories. 

Dovina's picture

"if the ex is toxic the milestones will be too"...you've got that right!!!

A veteran on here once quoted " toxic people use special occassions to mark their territoty"  and  from experience once a BM is toxic chances are she stays that way, its in her blood. Drama feeds her black soul. Sad but true Sad

lieutenant_dad's picture

I don't think there is one right answer, and it depends heavily on the relationships of those involved. Why does the SK want both parents to do this together/with them? Who motivated the SK to make the request? What has the history been with the SK and other parent?

I think there are instances where any request for both parents to participate in these events together is absolutely uncalled for. Abusive ex or SK(s) would be a big reason to avoid participating because that likely doesn't mean the request for photos or to be walked down the aisle was made in good faith.

BUT, if the SK has had a loving relationship with their parent and SP, and the ex is more just "moody" than abusive, I think there are some requests/precautions that can be made/taken. At a wedding, for example, put SM in the front pew so Dad can sit with her after walking SD down the aisle. In pictures, put the parents on opposite sides of the child, and have some photos of just one parent and SK, parent and SP and SK, whole families representation, etc.

If both parents and Spa and SKs have gotten along well over the years, it seems silly for the request of some photos or a walk down the aisle to sour that due to new jealousy about "place" in the family. That's unfair to everyone involved, to be one actual (not "fake it til you make it") good terms for years only to throw a wrench in last minute.

All in all, though, I try to remind myself that these dates aren't about me. They're about my SK, and if I'm that put-off by it all, I can politely decline my involvement. I don't get to control how my spouse/SO decides to deal with that event, though. If they want to put up with abuse, if that's the case, so be it. I can make my point to them, but I ultimately have no control over what they do. If I'm that upset by it, I have the option of leaving. That's the double-edged sword that comes with SPing: you can leave at any time, but you may have to leave at some point if it becomes too much.

ESMOD's picture

I think that it's ok for a child to want to have a pic with both of their parents in the picture.. When talking about weddings.. I especially see this as something they might want... HOwever, I do also think that there should be pictures with the bio parent and the step parent with the bride/groom as well.  So.. the SP shouldn't be completely excluded.. but I think that to an extent.. it isn't about the child pretending their parents are "together".. just that they want a pic with both parents in the picture.  At my OSD's wedding.. we had pics with my DH and his EX with the wedding couple.. but also a pic of me and him with them too.. While a SP shouldn't be ignored...as LD said.. a picture together is hardly some symbolic "win" for anyone.  It only has as much significance in your life as you choose to give it.

justmakingthebest's picture

I think it all depends on the relationships that everyone has.

I personally see my DD asking both her dad and DH to walk her down the isle on day. I know in my heart that it is something that her father would have no problem with. I hope that her SM and I can both be there helping her get dressed. We have already talked about her SM flying out for her first formal dance to go with us dress shopping.

I have had picutres with just me and exH and our children for smaller milestones- 5th and 8th grade graduations, birthday's, awards things. It isn't a big deal to us. When BS gets married one day, I hope that he does a mother dance with his SM as well as I. We all work together and the kids were so young when we divorced. They don't ever remember us even being together.  It just makes sense that all 4 parents do all the big stuff together. 

As for DH's exes- both of them... Honestly SS20 will likely not have another milestone event. He is entirely asexual and doesn't people well, so he will just be with us forever. SS15... we probably won't even be invited to his high school graduation, let alone his wedding or anything. I just don't see BM allowing that to happen. 

JRI's picture

I'm a mature BM & SM of 5.  I hated and still hate all steofamily milestone events.  There is always a tension there.  But as far as any picture of the original family goes, in my mind, i called them "Original recipe".  I can understand why the child would want one.  No big deal, 

 

Maxwell09's picture

It's not my wedding so I don't get a choice abouf who is in what photos with whoever else. The photos won't be displayed at my house and it's the stepkids special day so if that kid wants both mom and dad to walk them down the aisle or take a parents photo then it's not my job to shut that down.  it's one day, one photo. I think at the point of skid marrying, they know their parents are not together and it's not like they're trying to recreate some kind of family fantasy like l believe these same kind of family photos do to younger kids so I wouldn't be against it. Would you feel equally offended if the skid wanted photos with his siblings from both both sides? Would you feel that protective over your child taking a photo with skids other siblings if the answer is 'no' then you're putting personal feelings on the bm/DH photo because of personal bias instead of what it actual represent which is that the kid came from both of them-something you should have come to terms with long before the wedding point. Bm exists. She is here. She is annoying AF and we'd all rather eat nails than to deal with them BUT she is still skid parent. The 'parent photo' isn't a glimpse into a happy moment. It's literally just a photo of the the skids parentage. 

Lifer33's picture

I hope my ss doesn't get married lol. You can only hope that as the kids were so young they'd not even consider their mum n dad as their unit and view it as having to seperate families Inc siblings they'd want pics with, but yes that's a vague hope. 

A forced photo is probably the least painful thing you may have to swallow at a wedding. As someone said you can't tell a couple how to run their show. However if you and dh contribute or are asked to contribute to their day I'd say you have a right to outline beforehand anything that might make you terribly uncomfortable and come to some compromise. The reason I say this is my brothers experience. He raised 2 girls from 6/8. Paid all their way, bought nice big house etc. Deadbeat dad was never around. As they got older there was issues between girls boyfriends and my brother over treating his house like a knocking shop, free meal. Deadbeat dad renters the scene when he's dying of cancer.. He dies, girls married bfs. My brother was seated at back seperate to wife on top table. The one girls new husband raised a toast and epic speech of martyrdom to bros wife and her dead deadbeat ex as outstanding parents whilst looking my brother straight in the eye.the hurt and fallout of that saw my brother and wife seperate. He contributed to the weddings but didn't think to ask questions as he never expected these swine kids and partners to be so cruel. Well that was a mistake 

advice.only2's picture

I look at is this way, if the parents have a horrible toxic bitter relationship it's pretty selfish of the kid to try and force them into a situation where they have to interact with one another.

I would equate it to telling the child they need to invite their worst enemy and interact with them on their wedding day...would they willingly do that? H#ll no! Then why force their parents to interact with one another. I know I know, the old they can be adults and swallow it for one day. Well how about the grown child who is now an adult swallow it and accept mommy and daddy can't stand each other and shouldn't be forced to interact with one another. How about the entitled child accept that if they wouldn't do it then why should their parents.

Trying to force a pretend narrative (we are a nuclear happy family) is bullsh*t and if my own child tried to do that to me I would not be a part of their wedding. I would attend but I would not be forced into uncomfortable situations just so they could play pretend for a day.

ldvilen's picture

Wedding Etiquette.  Usually I’m not a big fan of wedding etiquette, per se, since it usually seems to be used in whatever manner so as to inflict as much discomfort on dad’s wife as possible, BUT I’ve just gone through “The Everything Wedding Etiquette Book, 4th edition, by Holly Lefevre.  On the back it states, “Your essential guide to the modern wedding,” and mentions dealing with unhappy stepfamilies.  So, I had to at least glance through it, of course.

Have to say, I was at least somewhat impressed (and that’s saying a lot for me).  What impressed me the most is that when it came to stepfamilies and where people sit, she stated quite clearly to get permissions from all parties involved.  She stated this a couple of times.  So, NO, it us not automatically just whatever the bride and groom wants, so suck it up !#@$! SM.  Also, what I found interesting, is that she recommended not seating exes that closely together EVEN IF they get along.  Here are some good quotes:

“The basic principle of etiquette can be summed up simply as the idea of not offending, embarrassing or upsetting others.”  (Aside: That sure as H- wasn’t followed at my SD’s wedding!)  “You should always invite significant others of married guests, engaged couples, couples who live together, and those who are generally considered to be a couple.” 

This was advice to a groom that didn’t want to invite his stepfather: “To invite your mother without her husband would be awkward, rude and offense to your mother.  If you insist on excluding your stepfather, you should discuss it first with your mother.”  Parents are not considered members of the wedding party, contrary to popular belief.  “The head table is usually reserved for the members of the wedding party.  Parents usually sit at separate tables with their families.”  “Divorced parents should not be seated at the same table, no matter how well they get along.”   More on that below. . .

This is the author’s response to the question:  Should ex-spouses or ex-in-laws be invited?  The author’s response is basically No, but what I found more interesting is what she goes on to say:  “Even if you think your relationship has evolved to a certain level and you feel okay inviting your ex, you may feel differently later or when the day comes.  Additionally, it can be confusing if you have children together and awkward for many of the guests to see your “old” wife, for instance, at an event meant to ring in the new.”  I think this plays into what there has been a lot of discussion about lately, and that is that being friendly-friendly with the ex is not a good thing, as it causes confusion for the kids and can be awkward for many others.