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BM is unbelievable and I'm sick of a useless CO.

Solidshadow7's picture

The drama with this woman is pretty much constant, so I think im just going to start randomly blogging about it to see if it helps my mental state at all...

Ive mentioned before that the CO technically allows 3 phone calls a week, but says nothing else about them. SS4 does not like talking on the phone very much, and his crazy BM appears to be completely unable to accept this. When she calls, 10% of the time SS will speak to her a little bit. She will get off the phone as soon as he repeats that he loves her and misses her but not before. 90% of the time SS runs away from the phone, sits there completely silently and refuses to make any sound whatsoever, or starts screaming. Occasionally this screaming will escalate into a full blown temper tantrum. The BM is apparently completely out of touch with reality, because she WILL NOT STOP. She will continuously repeat some variant of the following "SS, I love you, I miss you, mommy loves you mommy misses you, SS? SS? SS? Don't you love mommy? Tell mommy you love her?" and she will continue to do this no matter what SS does. SS can be crying hysterically and hitting himself and she will continue on anyway. She has done this for 45 minutes straight before. Since DH has weekends only during the school year, I get to listen to this insanity EVERY NIGHT whenever SS is with us.

My mother came to visit from out of state for the holidays, and despite the fact that I have tried to explain to her that the BM is insane and she needs to manage her behavior accordingly, she doesn't seem to understand that you can't treat a lunatic the way you'd treat anyone else and expect the same response.

BM makes her nightly phonecall to SS. SS stays completely silent and refuses to make any sound whatsoever. My mother is in the room, and she says to him, "SS, your mother is talking to you. What you are doing is very disrespectful. She is your mother, its not polite to ignore her, say something." About 15 seconds into this, we realize the BM has lost service, and the call has dropped. We weren't sure how long shed been on the phone or if it counted as her phonecall, so when she called right back my DH picked up again. This time, instead of staying silent SS starts to whine and scream, signaling a full blown meltdown is coming. My mother sees how distressed he is, and says "SS, if you don't want to talk, just tell your mother that you don't want to talk on the phone." SS says "I don't want to talk on the phone." The BM responds completely normally and ends the call, aware that a new person is in the room.

Then the insanity starts. A number of text messages sent to me demanding to know who that woman was. A text to DH threatening to file contempt charges against him because the court order says the parents are not allowed to undermine each other and this should cover all people they choose to bring around the child. Another text message to me about how dare my mother use her son to insult her like that. A text sent from me explaining that my mom was trying to give SS a healthy way of expressing what he needs and also that she was trying to STOP SS from disrespecting her, not cause him to, which is ignored by her. A text sent from my mother apologizing for any misunderstanding which is also ignored.

Yes, I know steptalk is very clear that I should block her phone number, but I find it important to stay on her good side so she doesn't poison her son against me so I choose to answer her. That and she HATES DH, so sometimes its easier since anything my DH says to her that she doesn't like (no matter how calmly its worded) is responded to by her claiming that he's being abusive and then she stops answering. This makes their conversations extremely unproductive.

Then she posts on facebook about how she wants a flamethrower for Christmas because how dare the SM's mother turn her child against her like that. I mean, clearly she has a few screws loose, my mom didn't actually do anything inappropriate.

So, im sure we are covered on any contempt filings the BM may produce, since the calls are recorded. I am partially hoping she does file contempt since it would be a fabulous demonstration of how insane she is. However, the BM who clearly couldn't care less about what's good for her son has decided to fight fire with fire. Up until 2 weeks ago, when SS is with her and DH calls, SS will talk to him about 70% of the time, and ignore him 30%. Every single phone call my DH has made to SS since this incident has been immediately responded to by SS4 saying "I don't like talking to you." and him then hanging up the phone. Clearly she's coaching him to do this.

What can we do?

Comments

ProbablyAlreadyInsane's picture

Take a screenshot of the crazy posts she makes on facebook and any and all text messages should be saved... Those will help in court for modifications... As well as stating the new way she's coaching him to respond to his dad... (keep a journal) Because you may want to use this for help on a modification... Possibly one that restricts communication or changes communication to Our Fmaily Wizard or something that will keep track of some of this insanity for you...

I am so sorry you're dealing with this crap! She sounds like a nightmare!

bananaseedo's picture

Wow, so all of you continue to screw up this 4 year old. THis is insane, every one of you. Shame on ALL of you. Your DH for putting his kid through this by even answering these calls. Let it go, don't answer- block her -you should have enough of the damage documented. Let her file contempt. Tell your dh to stop calling his kid. Why do people do this shit ? It's disgusting honestly. I dont' gaf what's in the CO- there is evidence enough this is messing up the kid. Be DONE w/this phone call nonsense-both ends. Kid is too young for phone calls and disturbing time when w/the other parents.

What is emotionally wrong w/the parents -and YOU for enabling this kind of madness?

Solidshadow7's picture

??

Can you explain please?

The court order says she is permitted 3 phone calls per week. Its normal for young children to carry on and not want to talk on the phone. We could stop answering the phone, but that would be a violation of the CO wouldn't it? We'd need to show that we have a good reason, that talking to mom is somehow threatening his health or safety, and I don't know how confident I feel that a judge would buy that we are protecting him from mom by stopping contact. Do you? The proper way of doing this would be filing a motion to change something about the CO, not simply going against it. I'm a little lost on what exactly to file here... Help?

She sometimes has SS for 3 weeks straight the way the time is spread out. Do you think that SS should simply not hear from dad at all for 3 weeks? That's a very long time for a 4 year old.

advice.only2's picture

BM calls and DH answers, SS starts to have a melt down or get upset "Sorry he is done talking." CLICK!!! It's that simple.

Bending over backwards to accommodate crazy never works...ever! She is allowed 3 phone calls per week, the kid is screaming and you hang up...that's a phone call!

DH needs to start growing a back bone about this right now, or good luck in the future she will just ramp up her crazy and her antics and there will be no limit the the amount of hoops you both will have to jump through.

Thumper's picture

TOTALLY agree with Bananaseedo.....

OP this IS insane and it upsets me too that adults insist toddlers have to talk on the phone for goodness sake.

I echo what banana said, ever single word. PLEASE give these children a break. Tell the kids HAVE FUN at MOM's I will see you on xyz day.

Then let it go.

momjeans's picture

“The BM is apparently completely out of touch with reality, because she WILL NOT STOP. She will continuously repeat some variant of the following "SS, I love you, I miss you, mommy loves you mommy misses you, SS? SS? SS? Don't you love mommy?”

**********************************************

Do your SS a favor and put an end to this now. This child is going to need lots of therapy one day with a codependent mother like this.

In regards to future visits, kindly ask your mom to refrain from inserting herself into matters. Like others have stated, this NEVER goes over well with BM’s such as this.

3 calls a week. Limit the talk time appropriately. He’s 4, and this is clearly becoming a traumatizing thing for him. I’d say, the moment you start seeing things go south - end the call. Document EVERYTHING.

And for the love of all that is holy - block her from calling/texting you.

Dontfeedthetrolls's picture

Stop enabling this. It's fine to bring the phone to SS so he can hear mommy say she loves him BUT when he doesn't talk you need to end it.

He's young enough its fine to "force" him to talk for a moment. When she starts the BS you shut it down. "I'm sorry BM little one doesn't want to talk. If he asks we'll call you later."

What you are showing him right now is he is not safe in your home. You are allowing her to terrorize him over what?

You can show a judge you accepted the call. You can explain why you ended it. Hell show him BM's insane text and he'll get the picture. But your continued enabling is harming this child and you are assisting BM in what I would consider emotional abuse.

twoviewpoints's picture

-"Yes, I know steptalk is very clear that I should block her phone number, but I find it important to stay on her good side so she doesn't poison her son against me so I choose to answer her."-

-"So, im sure we are covered on any contempt filings the BM may produce, since the calls are recorded."-

Just stop already. Stop terrorizing this child over a stupid phone call. Stop fearing this idiotic mother has any grounds for , let alone successfully win any attempt for contempt.

This little guy is but a babe yet. And here are three grown *ss adults torturing the kid over silly phone calls. No judge in this country signed off on the 'parent can call kid' in the CO with any intentions (even in the judge's wildest nightmare) of this going to be how things have to be per some one line crap no one should be blindly following without question.

You're afraid BM might turn SS against you? What do you and your DH think you both are doing to this little boy all by yourselves? Poor babe will need therapy for life from being traumatized by a f-ing telephone.

Pick up the phone and have a consult with your lawyer. Tell lawyer what is going on, how it is going on and hand lawyer poof via your recordings ( I hope you filmed the kid running in terror out in the driveway in total meltdown mode being chased by the phone). And don't be surprised when Dad and you are questioned as to why you both carried these calls out to this extent. Talk to the lawyer. Ignore all of us StepTalk members, listen to what it is your lawyer advises you.

This can not keep going on.

thinkthrice's picture

there IS no good side to be on with a crazy, HCBM. Placation never works. She will only demand more. Document everything that has transpired so far. Screenshots, dates, names etc. Then go to court to get the 3 phone calls stopped.

FrenchPeas's picture

Hey, what did i suggest last time? END CALL. you’re catering to a LOON. These calls are about her. Nothing more. Just stop answering. My God. I hate it when people allow themselves to be run by circumstances instead of taking charge of their life. y’all are all jumping thru hoops regardless of the child’s well being for a crackpot. It’s a damn shame

END CALL. BETTER YET. STOP ANSWERING.

Livingoutloud's picture

So SS is screaming hysterically and hitting himself for 45 minutes on the phone and you are all watching it? Do you understand that this is damaging to poor child and in fact could be considered abusive as you are right there watching it ? This needs to stop

StepUltimate's picture

Record little guy once going "Mommy mommy I love you I love you" and make it your "hold music" with your carrier on a new #, and let her call THAT with her drama.

notsobad's picture

“ but I find it important to stay on her good side so she doesn't poison her son against me so I choose to answer her.”

You need to get clear on this, NOTHING YOU DO OR DONT DO WILL AFFECT HER BEHAVIOUR.
She will use your actions however suits her best. She will twist your words to whatever suits her best.

Sadly, I’m glad your Mom was able to witness for herself BMs craziness. I do hope you shared with her all the texts and the FB rant.

As everyone said, Stop putting SS through this. I’d he doesn’t want to talk say goodby & hang up. Ignor the rest of her calls, text her and tell her SS is fine, he simply doesn’t want to talk. If she calls the cops, show them the CO, the phone record and the text.
If she takes you to court, same same.

You can not do anything about her craziness, just keep your home as stable and loving as possible.

onwednesdayswewearpink's picture

I would answer and let him talk and the minute ss starts screaming take the phone and say, “ss is done talking I guess. We will see you Monday” click.

bananaseedo's picture

You all also realize 3 times a week doesn't mean 3 times a weekend. We already advised you on this previously-so why do you guys insist on letting this kid continue to suffer to please his ex-wife again?

Let her file contempt- it will be the perfect time to ammend that ridiculous telephone order. Or file the motion yourself and in the meantime don't answer the calls. I would not answer more then once.

Listen, I divorced when my kids were 2 and 4- I have not-do not call them on their father's time EVER-they could call me if they wanted-they are now 16-18 and survived fine. THey also didn't much want to talk to their dad when w/me - we all survived fine. IMO it can be detrimental, distressing and mess up the kids routine and bonding time w/the other parent.

If you MUST -answer ONE call, say on Sat- and give the boy the option to talk-if he says no you hang up. You gave 'access' once during a weekend should be enough by any judge.

notsurehowtodeal's picture

My heart breaks for your SS that he is forced to go through this nonsense. You were given a lot of good advice last time you asked about this - most of which you chose to ignore. You have been given more advice in this post. For the sake of your SS, please don't ignore it this time.

It is really pretty simple: BM calls, you put SS on the phone, he says whatever he says - or screams or is silent, 2 minutes later you hang up. She got her phone call. You ignore all further communication from her. Video tape the call so you have the proof of what happened. Take her back to court to limit the calls.

Solidshadow7's picture

In between the constant insults, I would just like to mention- Post 1 about SS's phone calls was only made two weeks ago.

The only time we have had SS since then was over Christmas break. We allowed the BM 2 phone calls, we ignored 3. The first time he talked, and the second call was the one I just described. Which lasted under a minute.

I was not asking to be attacked. I was asking if anyone has any clue how to handle the fact that she is now coaching SS to say "I don't want to talk to you" and hang up on DH consistently. She has SS for a 3 week stretch now.

FrenchPeas's picture

I’m gonna be blunt. You received good advice. People here feel bad for your stepson and the damage being done to him. Basically you received the same good advice with a tinge of frustration as it escalated again. It’s not necessary. Just ignore her. If it comes to court, make your case. It’s not fair to be upset with people who give you good advice then you don’t take it.

Make some concrete changes. Forget about what she’s going to do. Worry about helping the little boy.

Dontfeedthetrolls's picture

I'd add that it's not fair to be upset because I think many of us agree that you are subjecting this child to emotional abuse and trying to excuse yourself.

You're allowing this woman to continue to harm this child because you don't want to deal with her.

You are suppose to be protecting this child and you are failing at it.

If you want to absolve yourself fine. Your partner is the one doing all this but your not saying anything. Your guilty by association.

What are you going to do when this child doesn't trust any of you. When as a teen he says "You let her do that and you didn't stop her. You didn't try to protect me. You knew what she was doing."

Sometimes we really can't stop things. We can't make BM behave in her home. We can't make her be nice. We can't make her see the harm she is doing because she doesn't care.

But we can try to control the things in our home.

twoviewpoints's picture

Your only hope is getting the CO language on the phone calls modified. However, even with getting the calls under control as to how many and how often, not even a judge can force a four year old to actually speak. The CO is between Mom and Dad, the little guy is four, just how is anyone going to make a child speak?

While the parent can have the child available and the parent can answer the phone and allow the child to talk, if the kid doesn't want to talk, he isn't going to. You said yourself, when Dad called the child talked maybe 70% of the time and didn't want to talk the other 30%.

If you recall, it was your mother who gave the kid the idea he could simply say 'I don't want to talk to you'. Well, that goes two ways. BM has told the kid it is o to tell Dad 'I don't want to talk to you'.

The kid was there, the phone was answered. No contempt of court order. A judge isn't going to find a four year old in contempt of an legal agreement between his parents. You can not prove BM coached the kid. The BM, however, can testify that she heard your mother state what your mother told the kid on your time when BM called. And then , of course, there is the string of texting that followed the incident where your mother apologizes.

Dad needs to file to have the calls limited in amount and length of time. The kid needs to be made available to speak when parent calls. What no one, including a judge can do is force the kid to actually be verbal.

My niece has a similar problem getting her 4yr old to speak on facetime. Her lawyer informed her to bring the child to the area for the call. She does. Call begins, the father or the father's parents can see the child, they can try and talk with him. And yep, when kid runs off and/or says 'I don't want to talk to you' the call ends with the child.

of course as my niece is trying to not just cooperate with CO but also encourage a relationship between father/grandparents on child's paternal side, niece then will take a few minutes to chat with the father or grandparents. She takes the time to talk about any questions they have, informs them of any highlights for the week of the child, shows them perhaps the school art project from pre-school. The call is about the child, the call focuses on the child. That type of thing. All the while with Jr running around in the background screaming 'hang-up, I don't want to talk'. Jr is told, ok, you are not talking, I am and you will be quiet while I do so'. Jr shuts up, sits down and quietly plays and the father and/or grandparents can see/watch child happily playing on the floor. Occasionally nephew comes back to talk. Sometimes the grandmother will start reading a book and nephew will come up to listen to it.

Niece and the father are finding ways to make the facetime work even if it's not quite what the grown ups had in mind when the calls were put in CO. Niece also knows her child well and can sometimes give the father and grandparents a better time to call back if they'd rather try again. The father is in a local band, so sometimes the child is quite willing to sit and watch and listen to Dad sing to the child. I guess not a tradition phone conversation, but it is working for them. Nephew has gotten much better about the calls and having to be present for them. When the calls first started kiddo was having no part of it, the calls were miserable and parents feelings and anger were running strong. I talked about facetime and the trouble niece was having in comments to someone not every long ago here. But as time went on and the parents found other ways than forcing a child to be verbal on command , the calls have become successful if not traditional.

momjeans's picture

“Every single phone call my DH has made to SS since this incident has been immediately responded to by SS4 saying "I don't like talking to you." and him then hanging up the phone. Clearly she's coaching him to do this.“

Clearly. It’s called parental alienation. BM is wasting no time, by engaging in this psychological abuse with her own child. A freaking 4 year old.

Your DH needs to keep detailed documentation. You need to quit engaging with her. It’s fueling the fire.

WalkOnBy's picture

"Yes, I know steptalk is very clear that I should block her phone number, but I find it important to stay on her good side so she doesn't poison her son against me so I choose to answer her. "

As long as you cater to her crazy, it won't ever stop.

YOU are under no obligation to this broad, so block her and don't communicate with her.

That's your husband's job...

WTF...REALLY's picture

He is only four....the crazy has just begun. You have 14 more years of this.

Stop allowing this in your home. Stop letting him be tortured.

She IS going to do her best to turn him against you two. The writing is on the wall.

You are NOT on her good side just because you enable her to act this way.

Go to court and get more physical custody. Then put an end to phone call being mandatory.

DaizyDuke's picture

So Is BM calling randomly and everyone is expecting SS to drop what he's doing and talk to her? Because if that is the case, that's NOT going to work for a 4 year old. Ever. I know on your last post, I suggested that you have BM call at a designated time, say 6 p.m. So at 5:30, you remind SS, who is playing with legos that in about 1/2 hour he will have to stop playing and talk to BM. Then about 5:45, you remind SS that BM will be calling soon, so we better wrap it up with the legos. Then at 6 p.m. when she calls, he is mentally prepared. It's not different than telling kids of this age it's time for bed, or time for bath. Giving them some leeway to feel like it is their decision can make a world of difference, instead of expecting them to jump because you said so.

Every single one of you have turned this phone call nonsense into a three ring circus and this 4 year old probably already has PTSD from it, so of course just hearing the phone ring, probably sends him into orbit now. And when you say it's important for you to stay on BMs good side... that should NOT mean that you allow her to abuse you as well as DH and her son. Guess what, whether you take her texts and calls or not, she is going to badmouth you to SS if she wants. You simply can NOT control that. But what you CAN control is how you deal with her. You can be cordial to her when you see her, but there is NO reason for her to be contacting you with complaints about SS or your DH or because she is trying to evade DH. Don't care whether she hates your DH or not, she needs to pull up her big girl panties and deal with it. You are enabling her. Stop it.