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Question About "Bad Boys"

paul_in_utah's picture

G'day fellow STalker, 

So I have been wresting with this one for a while.  What is it, exactly, that makes "bad boys" so irresistable?

As a bit of background, my current situation mostly revolves around SOD (Significant Other-Daughter"), the TPP ("Trailer Park Prince"), and SOD-GD (Significant Other - Daughter's GrandDaughter).  TPP is the biological father of SOD-GD.

Based on  my research and my own life experience, the main allure of "bad boys" is their physical attractiveness.  These guys get a lot of attention from a lot of women.  Women quickly have sex with these guys to try and "lock them down," but this doesn't work because the bad boys have options with so many other woman.  Bad boys get away with pumping and dumping, using women for free places to live, getting women to pay for their expenses, etc.  The women in these scenarios typically put up with all of the bad behavior because the find the guy atrractive and because they want to get ahold of his genes for their potential children. 

In this scenario, I could at least see a sort of "exchange for value."  Women get to have sex (and possibly children) with a bad boy, and when they inevitablly get their hear broken by the bad boy, they find a beta male they can dump on who will pay her bills.  However, the girl was able to have sex with the bad boy, and got to proprogate their seed.  So there is something resembling a "fair trade."

What I don't get is girls, like SOD, who get with bad boys who **aren't** attractive.  The TPP has most of the traits of bad boys.  He verbally and physcially abuses SOD.  He refusues to pay bills and has SOD paying for everything (or enlisting SO and me to pay their bills).  He cheats on her.  He insults here.  He prioritizes his friends over her.  He doesn't take care of their child.  Most women who put up with this abuse seem to do so because they place such a premium on the bad boy's looks/genes that they are willing to tolerate anyting.

However, in TPP's case, he is not attracive.  He is short (5'7") and not particularly handsome.  He wears glasses.  He dresses like a hobo.  So I am genuinely stumpted.  I don't see what SOD gets out of this.  If he was good-looking, then you could at least hang your hat on that.  But he's not.  He literally has nothing going for him, but somehow gets away with acting like a bad boy and treating SOD like garbage.

If he looked the way he does, but was a responsible beta provider, that could makes sense as well.  But he lacks the favorable beta traits that are present in the men that women typically settle for (stable job, stabile finances, doesn't run around on her, takes care of her, doesn't abuse her, tries to make her feel good about herself, etc.).

Does anyone have any insight on this? 


justmakingthebest's picture

Excitement? Maybe there is some sort of "rush" she gets out of the drama of their relationship?

I have no idea....

paul_in_utah's picture

That's a good point, and Ive definitely considered it.  Lots of women love the "rush" of being with a bad boy who plays by their own rules, and who gets away with things because he is good looking.  But the problem with that, at least with SOD, is they never do anything.  All TPP does is slepp and play video games.  They go out to TPP's mom's trailer sometimes, but he ignores SOD and pays attention to his family.  So not sure about the rush there.

SOD's mom, my SO, has had a lifelong thirst for bad boys.  She definitely got off on the "excitement" of bad boys, and has waxed nostalgic to me on many occassions about how much she enjoyed these guys.  She cheated on her EX-H many times, and obviously was thrilled with that excitement.  Same when she cheated on me.  If fact, she went through a stretch last year when she was very aggresively trying to replace me with a bad boy because she felt she was "entitled" to one.  Sadly, none wanted a relationshp with her :(.  She got ran through by half-a-dozen or more, but when she pressed for a committment, they all ghosted her.  They were just looking for a "tenth" girl to round out their rotations, or something along those lines.  Some apparently had money, but none were willing to part with it to help SO or her kids.

But, at least SO was getting excitement.  I don't see SOD getting that with TPP.

paul_in_utah's picture

Well, it's not sex, that's for sure.  I'm back on a strict sex diet.  "My stomach hurts," "I'm exhausted," "I have a headache," "I'm stressed."

It's just hard to leave when I am gone to much to even try and meet someone.  But there will come a time when enough is enough, I think, and I will just be alone.  The financial demands are getting higher every month since TPP's expectations keep rising.

lieutenant_dad's picture

Yeah - she is being abused. Abused people don't think clearly. Their brains get manipulated. Abusers know how to lure folks in and prey on folks who are easy targets - like a young woman whose parent coddled her and didn't teach her how to value herself, and whose parent shows abusive tendencies themself which just normalizes abusive behavior.

Reframe your thinking from "why do women stay with abusive men?" to "why do men feel the need to be abusive?" Then also ask yourself, as a man, what you're doing to hold accountable other men who are abusing the women in their life. Also, what are you doing to support men who are victims of abuse?

Your SOD isn't ever going to leave an abusive situation when you and her mother continue to pay for her to stay in it. All that does is reinforce that the situation is okay. 

paul_in_utah's picture

Yeah, that's the rub.  Not financially enabling SOD is not an option.  SO has made it clear that she will drain her account every paycheck to keep "helping" her daughter.

On some level, I think SO really believes this is helpful  Despite the fact that every single family member has told her she needs to stop helping SOD, and let her be accountable for her own bad decisions.  Despite the fact that SOD blows large portions of her pacheck on weed, hair coloring, nails, fancy coffee, and other luxuries (we had thought she was at least paying their utilies, but she's not, and has started to get shut-off notices).  Despite the fact that things are forever getting worse, not better, for SOD.

There's also the narcissist angle.  SO is a covert narcisisist, and derives supply from SOD "needing" her.  SO also views SOD as a mere extension of her own ego, so in a sense denying SOD is denying herself (when you look at how much she favors SOD over her son, this is really clear).

Most likely, this is what will end our relationship.  I can't keep throwing money into a bottomless pit.  If I break up w/ SO, she'll move onto another beta-male provider, and it will be his problem then.  

lieutenant_dad's picture

You realize there is no such thing as a "beta male" or "alpha male", right? And most women who see those terms run in the opposite direction?

I mean this kindly: you have a lot of BS views that you need to work through that would help you leave a bad relationship AND build confidence in yourself. You seemingly have good qualities that benefit you and would be appreciated by an equal partner. BUT, when you view yourself as "lesser" (i.e. a "beta") you open yourself up to be used by others who only see you for what you provide and not who you are.

paul_in_utah's picture

Sorry, I respectfrully disagree.  I have seen many examples of bad boys getting passes and incredibly preferable treatment from women, and beta guys like me dealing with the fall-out.  The world isn't black and white, but there are trends.  And the trends I have discussed in this post have been born out by my experience.  If your life is different, then I respect that you have a different view.

lieutenant_dad's picture

In that case, quit being a beta male who simps for cheating "bad girls". If anything, you should empathize with SOD because you and her are basically dealing with the same situation:

  • You both work to support someone else's bad habits
  • You both are with people who treat you like garbage (even if your SO only does it in cycles and not daily)
  • You both aren't getting what you want and need out of the relationship

So, if you want to know why SOD went for "bad boy", ask yourself why you went for the "bad girl" and keep her around. While how you get used may be different, your SO is the same caliber as TPP. There is a reason why SOD finds him attractive (even if not physically) and it's probably partly because he reminds her of Mommy Dearest.

classyNJ's picture

Sounds like she is also a "bad girl" from the cheating?

My first DH was a bad boy.  He love bombed the shit out of me and since I worked 12 hours days 6 days a week, I had no idea what he did during those hours.  After 3 years I found out that he was cheating, got fired from every damn job he had and was a horrible alcoholic.  Yes he was absolutely gorgeous, but after all the cheating and drinking, he was just an ugly soul to m.  

CLove's picture

Charm, Love bombing. Dickmatised. I think that distills it down. In a general sense.

For THIS specific situation as you described it, I think SOD and TTP have a drama dynamic. Im sure there are other words that are more scientific, but the drama is like a drug.

And who knows about SOD - how likely is she to do better than TTP? With his spawn tied to her?

paul_in_utah's picture

There is defnitely a drama dynamic.  It's not like SOD just sits there, she screams at TPP and belittles him sometimes.  She throws things and has hit him a few times (ineffectively, but it would still be considered battery from a legal perspective).

SOD is very attractive for her age, and could definitely land a high-value guy on looks alone.  Such a guy might not stick around due to her immaturity and drama, but if she could dial down the drama she could get a much better guy just on her looks.

Winterglow's picture

I had my share of bad boys - they came to me. It was fun while it lasted but taught me a lot about self-worth. I knew who I was. It's a question of self-esteem. Make hay while the sun shines but don't ever forget who you are. 

Rags's picture

have a slightly different philosphy.  The hot edgy ones, generally the female equivelent of the bad boy,  generally are targets of opportunity but not the ones you take home to mom, so to speak.

Though really not a bad boy, I was a man whore for a number of my early adult years.  I did some print medium modeling and rarely left the clubs on a weekend alone.  At some point I learned that while sex is really never bad, it is incredible with smart, confident women who are take them home to mom material.  There really is no comparison between a target of opportuntiy woman and a beautiful, brilliant, confident woman. IMHO. As a life partner and for sure there is no comparrison when it comes to intensity of intimacy and sex in the relationship.  Roughly the differnece between an earth shaking experience compared to a pleasurable  but not overly memorable experience. 

Likely similar to a bad boy, the smokin hot edgy targets of opportunity women are not life time commitment quality.  One of my former GFs stands out. She was absolutely stunning and actually very smart. She just had a nose candy/character problem.   I dated her immediately prior to meeting my XW.  She sought me out after about a year post breakup after she got out of re-hab, etc... I was already engaged. In hind sight, maybe I should have broken the engagement. Though had I done that I am sure I would be a divorced man with a kid or several with a tragically flawed XW with a nose candy problem and a penchant for a never ending sequence of bad boys.  We broke up over her inappropriate engagements with bad boys. When she looked me up after re-hab, as beautiful as she was, I was not willing to take the risk.  Unfortunately, I completely missed the complete lack of character in my XW and nearly her entire family. However, that is a another though related story.

As it has turned out, I won the incredible, beautiful, brilliant wife lottery the second time I played. Without having to be the bad boy and without lowering my take her home to meet mom standards.

I get the appeal of the bad boy/girl concept.  Fortuneately we have intellect to overcome that crap. For those who don't figure it out, good luck with the life long shit storm of choosing the bad boy/girl. Those poor kids of these ill considered couplings are the real victims and sadly have no choice in the matter until they are adults and have the opportunity to write off their idiot parents.  Though few actually do.  To the idiots who choose these dipshits as anything more than a passing tryst... meh.

Even if we choose a tryst with one of them, wrap it before you tap it and no glove no love should be an absolute standard. To avoid both a microbial gift and even worse, the potential result of polluting our gene pool with one or more of them.

People get what they choose.  Those who learn, can end up with amazing.

Just my thoughts of course.

paul_in_utah's picture

Yeah, I think it's possible for some people to "wise up."  My SO swears that she has, but that is what she was saying before while she was cheating on me, so forgive my scepticism.  I have no doubts that SO is still cultivating relationships with bad boys, hoping to find that one who will finally commit to her.  I think she will forever be chasing the bad boy.  I know that if she ever goes on a diet again, her departure is immenent. 

Until then, I think she knows that she needs my financial assistance, so she will make some minimal effort to keep me around.  I think the odds of her finding someone else to pay as much as me are low, but we will see.

Rags's picture

Why are you waiting around?  Why are you choosing to be her gravy train when you clearly know what she is?



CLove's picture

Ive lived in Southern California many years and am now in Central.

For my observations its the "bad boys with money" thing. Its the "I want to be able to not work, raise my kids, and get my hair and nails done".

And then my thoughts go to statistical analysis, rather than the societal evolution and scarcity of resources theory: United States has 50% divorce rate. That doesnt take into account domestic partnerships. Thats a lot of families broken up with children that need support. So "bad boys with money" allure is heres a guy who is hot and loaded. I will have support I need and my sexual needs will be taken care of. If he cheats oh well.

But thats me. I like safe and secure and I am a safe and secure person.

My Girlfriend, lets call her sweet susie, she has a man who is a narc. She makes six figures, lives in a cute rental by the sea, is beautiful and SMART. This dude shes in love with is short, is a coke addict, alcoholic, works a labor job, and his child wont have anything to do with him. Her child wont have anything to do with him. He cheats on her regularly but thats not a deal breaker. 

What the heck besides amazing sex is keeping her with him?

I think shes addicted to him, and also I think there is a trauma bond there too.

I think your assumptions might be oversimplified, but perhaps you are spot on?


ESMOD's picture

why do women pick losers?

poor self esteem

they pick guys that aren't high on the totem pole so they don't have to worry about measuring up to any expectations?


They are in perpetual DIY mode.. you know.. they plan their lives around this coupledom.. and they find some guy that loosely checks off a few boxes.. and they feel like they can FIX/SAVE them and make them into what they want.  they have this instagram vision of what their perfect life looks like.. but do a piss poor job of finding a guy that actually matches that.. figure they can make him into what they want.. that he will love them so much he will change.

Then there is yeah.. the excitement and the drama of a bad guy.. the thrill of the chase.. the crumbs the guy throws their way.. the less attainable he is.. the more attractive of a prize he becomes to them.

then there is also lure of a lifestyle.. perhaps drugs/partying involved.


it's not a one size fits all.. and sure sometimes our natural drive to procreate with a good "genetic" specimin can play into it.. but I think some people just get caught up in the chase and don't realize what they are chasing isn't even worth it.

You see it in men.. laser focused on certain traits and woefully blind to others.

CLove's picture

Has to keep clean for random drug tests to keep her job. So, she likes the excitement for sure. This guys in his 50's and 30 years ago was at the top of the local music scene. So "rock star".

But I think that many overlook the bad because theres "so much good!"

DPW's picture

I find you to be one of the most superficial people on this board. It's always about looks, physical attributes, who earns what, silly relationship dynamics, ... Never anything with depth, deep and meaninful items that belong in real relationships that work. Then you add your judgments and stereotypical comments about women and how they we act, it's really all superficial thinking and honestly, ridiculous in my mind.

Let it all go. Open your mind and expose yourself to a world of greys. You have an audience here of amazingly intelligent, true critical thinkers, with varied experiences and education who provide sound advice to you over and over again yet here you post this blog? You can't see yourself in this blog??? Change the genders and look in the mirror. Until you see this, you will remain in this miserable relationship, unless/until she finds someone richer than you who will support her and her ridiculousness and she gets out of dodge first. 

Don't you think you deserve better?