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Naina's picture

Hi, everyone. I am new to this website. I have stumbled across this page while helping out a friend who is going to be a step in near future(She's American). We've been reading a lot of blogs and forming a generalized view of how people deal with things. I absolutely have no intentions to offend anyone but there's some stuff that has been bothering me. Mostly about dad and daughter's relationships. My parents are together for almost 30 years now. I am 20 years old and I have an older sister who is 28 years old. We are very close family. We live next door to our uncle (dad's brother) , his wife and my two cousins (both guys). Grandparents also live nearby and my dad's cousins and their kids are also close to us. In my house we are usually teamed up my mom and my sis are very close and so are me and my dad. My dad loves to spoil both us sisters, we occasionally sleep with our parents, my sister is financially independent ( she's a fashion designer), earns really good but still lives my parents, she also has a pretty stable relationship with her boyfriend for almost 4 years now. I moved for college when I was 16 on scholarship, I moved from India to US for college(Ivy league, can't mention the name classmates may find out which will lead to unnecessary questions which is not good for the friend who is actually maybe finding this site helpful). We've been good students, I had behavioural issues in teenage but it was all a phase. I am better now. This was some background. The issue is I am also very close to my father, I call home everyday, video call him, we text several times so does my sister and I also do it with my mom, uncles, aunts. My cousins, friends we all do it. I hang out with my father one on one too. Games, movies and what not. We are actually best friends. I hold his hand too, sit with him on the couch, sometimes jokingly on his lap too, like going to trips with my family. I have great friends too sure everything isn't perfect and I have occasional fights and outbursts and work related stress but I don't believe my relationship with my father is incestous in any nature, if it would have been weird my mom would have been the first to point it out but she adores our relationship. I think maybe it's more cultural but we are more close to our families, our parents, siblings, cousins, aunts and uncles. I am independent work in tech and earn pretty good for myself but still my parents send me money every month and if they are planning a trip then they pay we are not allowed to pay, they insist we save for our futures. If we go out he'll pay the bill and that's how it is usually in almost every family in India sure there are exceptions everywhere. I guess what I am trying to say is I hug my dad, cuddle him, sometimes we sleep with our parents, we hang out a lot, my parents kiss us alot ,talk to us everyday but I don't feel that I am emotionally stunted and have no career prospects. I am doing good for myself.  People do say I am dad's sidekick or his biggest fan but we all love it, my mom sometimes makes fun of this too. I was just a little disturbed by how dad and daughters relationships were judged so wanted to add a little perspective. Do tell me what you think.

P.S. Sorry got too long.

Comments

Winterglow's picture

I think that, in comparing an intact family situation with a step family situation, you are comparing apples and oranges. 

:) 

Naina's picture

I completely agree with you. I have absolutely no idea how difficult is to manage a step family. I was just comparing the relationship that I have with my father with the ones mentioned here.

Wicked stepmo.'s picture

I agree with Winterglow. This is a place steps come to vent Thier frustrations without judgement and get advice and support.

I am assuming you love and respect both your parents equally.in step life the children are the same. They love both thier parents equally. But their are times where although the stepparent came along after seperation or divorce. They become the target of the children's emotions related to that seperation as well as the scapegoat for problems and conflict between BPs.

You seem to be referring to the term "mini wife". The difference in what you are describing and what is discussed on here is when SDs intentionally engage in behavior to interfere in their fathers new relationship. They intentionally do and say things to instigate conflict between BP and SP, like telling lies, making accusations. 

I will give you an example. I did more for OSD than both of her parents. But when OSD decided she didn't like me anymore. Mostly because BM didn't want her to and like I said SKs love their parents and are loyal to them. When I wasn't around she would tell her father that I was making up lies about her to him try and intentionally get him upset with her and damage their relationship. 

Whenever OSD and SO had an argument about anything she would blame me for her behavior and actions. " It's your girlfriend's fault, I am acting this way."

Often times the SD is in alliance with a HCBM who wants to see the BD relationship fail and interfere in that relationship as much as possible due to HCBMs anger, jealousy or general need for control over everything. 

In my situation HCBM had a target on me because when I came along I put a stop to SO constantly forking out money, or helping BM especially since at that time he had SKs all the time and BM would not even come and take them for a night to give home a break. 

They had not been together for over 13 years when I came along and she was a gorwn up with a job who was just using and taking advantage of SO. She also had another child with her current BF. 

Naina's picture

Thank you for your insight. Yes I respect both my parents equally also if I ever disrespected any one of them including my older sister my parents would whoop my ass.

Wicked stepmo.'s picture

Exactly!! But often times in steplife instead of discipline. BD of BM will reward such behavior out of fear that upsetting SKs would result in SKs refusing to come see them.

SKs learn quickly they have all the control because BPs allow it.

In my situation when OSD pulled the I don't like your rules, so I am going to live with BM and refuse to talk to you and tell you it's SMs fault. 

My SO would beg a plead with the then 14 year old to come see him. When she did she was showered with $100's of dollars in gifts and BDs undevoted attention. Rules, behavior expectations there were none from that point on, so not to upset precious princess and be threatened with her withdrawing her love. He would even ignore YSD when OSD would come around. 

Naina's picture

I am really sorry that happened to you. I mean I hope my parents are always together but hypothetically if they were not I can't imagine disrespecting someone who my father loves and adores. Heck I even like the teams he likes which is so trivial I can never dislike someone my father loves. He's my father he obviously would keep me in mind before bringing someone in my life so what's the threat. I can never take that women's place and she can never take mine we have our individual places. I hope everyone gets that and it makes life easy for steps. I wish you all the very best in your life.

lieutenant_dad's picture

Wicked talked about mini-wife above. Another toxic behavior, even though it looks "good" on the surface is enmeshment (which is very similar to codependency). It manifests when parents and adults don't have appropriate boundaries, and their close relationship hinders other relationships or growth.

In American culture, the kind of relationship you have with your dad would be likely considered enmeshed. Your parent should be your parent, not your best friend. No adult woman should be sitting on a grown man's lap except his wife (and whomever else he and his wife deem to be okay with it, who also happens to be a non-related adult). Your sister being 28 with a stable career and long-term boyfriend while still living at home is weird. It shows a lack of independence and reliance on the parental home, which is the exact opposite of what kids are supposed to do, which is launch.

The problem with enmeshment is that it's hard to show people who are enmeshed that it's problematic, because for those people, it's a fine arrangement so long as it can always stay the same. Problems with enmeshment between parents and kids tend to rear their ugly heads when the kids begin looking for independence outside the parental home.

Want to get married? Parents tend to be overly protective and involved, which a healthy new spouse isn't going to appreciate or want. Want to move into an apartment alone? Your dad complains every weekend you don't come home for family dinner. You start to have a change in world view? You're breaking your mother's heart by not following tradition /religion/familial values, and the reason for her broken heart is entirely thrown onto you.

Enmeshment only works when there is no growth or change, but there will be the inevitable change of a parent's death. When that happens, enmeshed kids cannot function because they were never whole humans on their own. Enmeshment happens frequently in divorced families due to guilt and lonesomeness on the parent's part. That doesn't mean that it's exclusive to stepfamilies, though.

Naina's picture

That is what I was talking when I said difference in culture,my sister also left home for college she knows how to live by herself and if  we are left alone( far from our homes/ death of parents) both her and I can totally function as normal adults. I mean if we work someplace else like we have done earlier too we can totally live by ourselves. We earn, know how to cook, clean, talk to people, handle our finances everything. Kids in india usually live with their parents even married kids. Some move out and some live with them we still have considerable percentage of joint family system. Around 10 years ago we all I mean my dad,mom, uncle, aunt, grandfather, grandmother all us cousins all used to live in the same house . It was a joint family system. New spouses also become a part of the family. Her boyfriend is part of our family now. He hangouts with us and has absolutely no issues with my sister's living situation. She's living here out of choice. My sister's boyfriend's family also visits because they will also be a part of family now since engagement dates are being finalized. Family and extended family plays very important role in India. Also I think as long things are going on consensually no can actually define appropriate and inappropriate. Also we have conversations about everything religion/ tradition and what not everyone's opinion is respected and no one's hear is broken over it. My parents are of different religions so pretty much liberal with their views , it was a love marriage . We also have arranged marriage system in India were parents set their kids up for marriage it's pretty common. I am not saying we have the best culture you have somethings good and we have something good if both the cultures would have a middle ground it would really turn out to be best kind of culture.

lieutenant_dad's picture

You have to be careful with thinking that just because everyone consents that it's okay. Using artists as an example, it has been a common (and now shunned) practice for companies to host art contests for artists to submit their work to be featured on some company item, be it a t-shirt, coffee mug, etc. There are artists - typically new artists or hobby artists - who participate in these contests, fully consenting to the terms.

However, the terms aren't fair to those artists. Because they are younger, likely inexperienced, and not as involved within the art community (typically), they become easy prey. Their art gets exploited, even though they fully agreed to the terms. They don't have the confidence in their work to ask for payment, and when companies see that they can get good enough work without having to pay for it, they stop buying art (but certainly take the rights for that art as part of the contest).

Basically, when there is a power/experience/relationship heirarchy difference, consent becomes muddy waters. You may say "yes" and agree to it, but that doesn't mean the decision was healthy and non-toxic. In the context of relationships between kids and parents, a kid consenting - even if they are an adult, because they have been under the influence of their PARENT for their entire lives, which can be either healthy or toxic - isn't necessarily being done in a way that isn't exploitative.

I'm not saying your family is exploiting you, nor am I saying that your family is doing something wrong. What I am pointing out is that it's not as simple as "well, I think it's okay, and I'm an adult, so I can consent to this behavior/treatment". That's true, you can. That doesn't mean the intent or outcome will be in your best interest. 

This is a common dynamic that we see in step families. The marriage/relationship ended because something about it was unhealthy. If that doesn't get addressed and corrected, those unhealthy behaviors get passed down to the kids. The kids then grow up thinking these disordered behavior is normal and okay, and they cling to the people who reinforce that thinking (their parents). They eventually become adults who have these unhealthy habits drilled into them, and even though they may consent to the unhealthy dynamics with their parents, it doesn't mean they are doing so with a healthy and balanced mind. 

Naina's picture

How exactly can one prove that. Consent in itself is a very complicated phenomenon but one cannot put a legal spin to it which will actually lead to some accountability and implications other than that it's just talk. I understand the exploitation part though because in US for a same job an immigrant is paid less than the US citizen hence they outsource their jobs to immigrants which leads to then saying immigrants are taking our jobs. It's exploitative yes definitely but illegal no. It only gets more complicated when it's about relationships. And who decides best interest. My best interests would be working on a dream job, taking care of my parents, siblings, husband and in future kids, nephews and nieces and I don't see the chances of that diminishing with the kind of lifestyle I have right now.

Wicked stepmo.'s picture

I'm not saying their aren't cases of evil stepparents. But more often than not, that's not the case. Also not all people have bad experiences. My last relationship, I absolutely adored my SS and talk with him still. 

I never interfered in SOs relationship with SKs. I always included them in everything. I never cared when they would climb in our bed to watch a movie and hang out. 

One day I just became the root of all evil, the scapegoat, the bad guy. 

That's how most people on this site feel. Trust me when I tell you most people go into this situation blind, with rose colored glasses. Only to wake up in the twighlight zone.

tog redux's picture

My 25-year-old niece is like you are with your father. Sitting next to him with her head on his shoulder. Sitting on his lap. Intact family. I personally think it's icky. No one else in our family had ever done that with their father. My sister, her mother, doesn't seem to care, so whatever. 

Naina's picture

Before coming to US my entire view of the country was from Sitcoms, movies, series etc so I thought it was pretty cool culture but US has diverse set of people I have seen friends(white) who are very close to their families exactly like mine . She was also very close to her father. Some families don't talk for months, some are totally cut off so I think each and everyone decides their own boundaries and as long as everything is legal it isn't really a problem. Another strange thing was parents asking rent from their kids, indian parents would never do that. Also I think somethings are too often sexualized in US like holding hands, head on shoulder these are just harmless affectionate activities.

tog redux's picture

Like you said, it's cultural. To me, it's a sign of immaturity to still relate to your parents in that manner, but I respect different cultures and different ways of being. It seems weird when my niece does it because that's not the culture in my family, or in her father's family. He has an older daughter with another mother who does not/did not relate to him that way. So you may consider American culture odd, much as we may consider your culture odd. Indian children have way more pressure to please their parents with choice of mate and career - that would not be okay with me. 

Naina's picture

I strongly believe that culture is something that is constantly evolving. I think both the cultures have both pros and cons but the best culture for me would be a culture that lies somewhere in the middle of both the cultures (Australia is somewhat there) both individualistic and community approach is required for best development. Extremes of both are not good. Recently I have been studying how one of the reasons COVID has caused so many deaths in US is because of sheer selfishness of people. Individualism taken too far creates entitlement and bratty behaviour. I am absolutely not saying we have the best here cause we don't community approach too far also is a major pain the ass and cause severe mental health disorders. Also the day mainstream media started to show close father daughter relationships as normal it would be massively followed.

tog redux's picture

There's culture, and then there is unhealthy behavior masquerading as culture. They are hard to tell apart sometimes.

Naina's picture

What are the parameters that decide healthy and unhealthy. For instance you might find generational cohabitation unhealthy but we find it healthy. There's no one right answer. The geriatric population of US is very lonely there are many old people dying in nursing homes I find it unhealthy but it's a norm to put parents in a home there, you find it healthy. So who sets these parameters. It's the people. And since the culture is evolving no one knows what would be the norm in coming years.

lieutenant_dad's picture

You're looking at the equation wrong.

Generational housing isn't unhealthy in and of itself. It CAN be unhealthy, though, if generational housing is used to prevent a young adult from gaining independence, or to control the finances of certain family members, or to facilitate an incestuous relationship amongst certain family members. Generational housing is a mechanism that can be exploited, but it isn't exploitative by its nature. Similar to how a car is a tool, but it can also be a weapon if someone decides to drive it the wrong way on the highway.

Naina's picture

So can extreme individualism is too. In a pandemic the countries that had more of a community approach fared better than the ones with individualistic approach. Extreme individualism leads to not even respecting someone else's individuality except there own which is the case with several of the skids on this forum. I agree generational houses can be exploitative too that's, a lot of things are wrong with our culture and I'll not defend it one bit but do love the community approach that asian countries have this is what I mean when I said a middle ground of both the cultures would kind of work for majority of the world because both the approaches are necessary. I've been to Australia and New Zealand they seem to getting close to it.

tog redux's picture

That's what I'm saying. Yes, generational cohabitation may be the culture, but if someone uses it to avoid becoming an adult or it exploits someone, then it's unhealthy. 
 

I don't disagree that one factor in the US in regard to our COVID failures was individualism. But there were others. An incompetent federal government when the pandemic hit and 50 state governments that all had a say, too, were part of the issue. 
 

Australia is often lauded for their response to COVID, but a) they are an island and b) they stranded tens of thousands of their citizens overseas to protect the ones that were there. That doesn't seem healthy to me, either. 

tog redux's picture

Oh, I agree Americans were selfish. But they also had a President and other leaders telling them it was a hoax and their rights were being violated. In states where that was NOT the message, there was a better response to masking and social distancing, and therefore, lower COVID rates. 

lieutenant_dad's picture

They CAN BE harmless, affectionate activities. It doesn't mean they ARE, though.

Family life - whether intact or divorced - has a lot of nuance to it. While I agree that the US has some pretty puritanical views on bodies and affection, that doesn't mean we're entirely wrong to question or look sideways at certain behaviors. 

Intention of an act makes a big difference here. Why does an adult child hold hands with their parent? Is it because it's part of their culture and it's similar to a hug? Or, was the parent lonely after their divorce and holding their child's hand provides them with physical comfort that SHOULD come from another adult?

Intention is important. There are parents who don't view their children as their children, but as prey or lovers. The act of sitting on Dad's lap may be benign in some instances, but may be a sign of abuse in others. Even in adulthood, if an adult child doesn't know that the reason Dad wants them to sit on their lap is because Dad likes feeling his daughter's rear on his legs, then the adult child may not see an issue with it even though an issue exists.

Naina's picture

So you agree that context matters. For instance I gave you a background and talked about my close relationship with my father you still called it enmeshment, cohabitation is usually a part of our culture and you called it weird. We have a pretty pleasant family and I for one know my father's intentions. No one in the world can love me more than my parents. While I do agree that hierarchy plays a great role and it can lead to cases of exploitation it's not necessarily always the case. Also I don't know much about US laws but I think incest is only punishable if actual sexual relationship is involved. Also there are many European countries that don't see incest as a crime now I find it extremely weird but they probably won't so I don't judge. It's very different for different people and an umbrella term cannot define different kinds of relationships. Aslo a lot of psychotherapy terms and approaches were studied on the white culture and white people. A lot of different races have different kinds of human interactions that are not studied hence cannot be defined. 

Winterglow's picture

Just an aside about incest (it isn't a crime in India either), just because it isn't a crime in a country doesn't mean that it is accepted as being a "normal" activity. It is still frowned upon.

Naina's picture

Evolutionarily we are not meant to have sexual relationships with our parents and siblings, it has been observed that that people related genetically have the same kind of scent and hence doesn't arouse people but turn them off. Yes most definitely it's frowned upon and I don't think it's happening at large I was talking about how affection is normal and it could be shown be different ways there's no need to sexualize everything.

lieutenant_dad's picture

I said in the US it would be seen as enmeshment and weird. To me, in my cultural upbringing, it is enmeshment and weird. Overall, though, that doesn't mean it is. And I've also stated that I wasn't saying your family's dynamics were, overall, enmeshed.

Also, don't confuse legality with healthiness or morality. It's perfectly legal in the US to smoke while pregnant or in a car with a child, but that doesn't make it healthy. You can call your kids names and belittle them. That doesn't mean it doesn't do harm. Also, all because something is legal, particularly in the United States, doesn't mean that people agree with it. 

Naina's picture

US is pretty diverse a lot of my friends who are white didn't find my family dynamics weird. Anyway that's established. A lot of things are unhealthy but I don't usually judge them because if there are no legal accountability and implications people won't take it seriously anyway. So as long as something isn't outright unjust I don't try to meddle or judge. For me happiness takes the cake, you should do what makes you happy as long as it is in legal constraints. I cannot make everyone a good person so I accept that this is just how some people are and I accept it. I try not to judge I dont know their life and upbringing if I don't appreciate something I remove myself from that situation but I won't shame them especially adults.

thiscantbenormal's picture

OP, as long as your mom's needs are still being met by her spouse and she firmly holds the spouse/mother role with no challenges for that role by the children then its comparing apples and oranges to what others may have experienced here.  You are from a culture that cohabitation with extended family is the norm.  Works great if everyone gets along but I'm sure there are some Indian families where there is conflict in the household and someone is forced to feel like an outsider. Sounds like you have an affectionate and pleasant family.  

There is enmeshment and dysfunction in my husband's extended family. It's a partner in crime kind of enmeshment, not the lovy-dovy kind. 

thiscantbenormal's picture

I'd also like to add, it sounds like everything is going right in your life.  You never know how you will really act if someone was to rock your boat.

Eventually there won't be room for you on your dad's lap.  Whether it be grandchildren or a new love interest or some other factor.  Some people act their worst when they feel their boat is being rocked which lands alot of us here.  

Naina's picture

As long as my father is happy I don't have a problem with anything. If he'll have grandchildren they'll be someone to me too I'll love them too why will I compete. Also it isn't a regular thing to sit in his lap it's usually a joke sometimes. God forbid if my parents divorced and he finds someone else why will I intentionally make her uncomfortable she'll clearly be very important to my father if he introduces his family to her. I don't want to take her place. Infact I'll try to have a good relationship with her so my dad is happy that all the people he loves also love each other. I trust my father's love and affection for me he would never bring someone who's evil into our lives he will clearly take us into consideration before committing to any woman. In the exact same way any guy I marry will have to get my family's approval.

Winterglow's picture

Supposing he brought someone home that you found you just couldn't like...? Would he be expected to give her up for the family if others felt the same way you do?

Naina's picture

No he wouldn't have to give her up. Even if I don't like her I'll still be respectful and cordial. I wouldn't try to break them up. And I would expect the same. I will not speak in his love life and she shouldn't speak in our relationship. I don't have to live with her forever, my relationship is with my father and I'll just have that. And if she tries to make him leave any of us then my father won't stay with her. I know him nobody would ask him to chose but he's a very family oriented guy I know what he'll chose, he shunned relatives( pretty close friends I would say) who would speak ill of my mom or who would say to him to try for a son because daughters are liabilities.

lieutenant_dad's picture

You know him as part of your intact family with intact family dynamics. You don't know who he'll be if he were to divorce (and he doesn't know that himself unless it happens). You ASSUME he won't do X, Y, and Z, but you don't know that because 1) it hasn't happened, and 2) you aren't him and aren't in his brain.

If someone divorces, it means something in their old life/family wasn't working. Typically that means people change because the old behaviors led to failure. What was acceptable or normal may no longer be after a divorce.

This is why you can't compare intact families where the heads of household are both on marriage #1 to blended/step families. 

Naina's picture

Okay I know me though I don't unnecessarily hate people so if my father is happy but not actively involved in my life I'll be sad for sure but I'll still be happy for him. Same goes for my mom. I have immense faith in my relationship with my parents and no amount of external forces can change that. I would just want to see them happy and healthy even if it means not being able to talk to them ever. I'll love them no matter what. 

lieutenant_dad's picture

You don't know how you'd react, either.

My parents are divorced. I have been divorced (not currently) after leaving a toxic and emotionally-abusive relationship. Who I am now is very different than who I was at 22 when I got married the first time, and at 26 when I got divorced from my "high school sweetheart". Being a stepparent has also changed how I view my parents' divorce and how they have acted since then. I still love both of my parents deeply, and I will do everything I can to make sure they are cared for when they can no longer do it themselves. BUT, I am no longer naive enough to think that my relationships with them won't change and wouldn't change if my mom divorced my SF or my dad married his long-time GF. That's not me saying the change would be bad. That's me saying that I don't know what that change would be because I haven't had to face the reality with all its intricacies and nuance.

You obviously want to have a good relationship with your parents and feel that the dynamics you have with them are healthy, and you anticipate that they will continue to be. That's fantastic! However, you came to a public forum full of folks who aren't living in intact families and are dealing with divorces and stepkids. That's a VERY, HUGELY, WILDLY different dynamic than you're used to. Add in that this site attracts folks who are dealing with mentally unfit/unstable exes and stepkids. That sets these families apart even further from a "regular divorced family", and lightyears from an intact one. What is acceptable, or viewed as acceptable, is vastly different because we've witnessed "acceptable" be anything but.

Naina's picture

My main motive to come here was to just to have insight on relationships especially dads and daughters because I felt maybe people were harsh on those kind of relationships( my bad some stepkids are really bad so sorry for that). Nothing else. My purpose was not to make anyone feel bad or agitated. Also I would never ever believe that my relationship with my parents will change just because they started dating someone. It might be difficult sure but I would definitely try my level best to always love them and care for them I wouldn't place conditions on my relationship with them. And worst case scenario will be that I'll be left alone no problems with that either, they are happy and that'll be enough for me . I'll work on my career, my interests and make my life but still whenever they'll need me I'll be there.

Rumplestiltskin's picture

I just came to say that dating across cultures is hard for a lot of reasons. If either family doesn't accept their child's partner, it's hard. It's isolating to be in the middle of this big, close family and know that most of them tolerate you at best.

It's also hard to tell if certain behaviors are cultural or just plain dysfunctional. Also, i learned that some behaviors are both! Just as American families can have elements that can be both dysfunctional and also uniquely American, others are just the same. Some families were dysfunctional long before they arrived here, and will continue to be forever! 

Rumplestiltskin's picture

To add, when it comes to compatibility, if both partners accept certain behaviors, they won't be an issue. If the partners have very different views on them, it will be a hige issue. Plus, from what i've seen, individuals do matter even in collectivist situations, unless all individuals strongly put the group ahead of themselves to the point of disregarding their own feelings completely. It's hard to be around someone 24/7 if you really really don't like them, or if the group doesn't like you to the point that you are targeted or isolated. I wonder how this is dealt with in collectivist societies when all involved put the group first. From what i can tell, there's a "leader" of the group who decides who stays and who goes. 

Naina's picture

Yes it was the case earlier the head of the family used to make the rules but a lot has changed its getting liberal now. Individualism is being considered now but feeling of community is still there. That's why I strongly vouch for a middle ground of both the cultures. It would be great developmentally.

Naina's picture

I agree. I have dated two people during my college years one was American and he was fascinated by my family life, but couldn't understand it easily I had to break it down to him he was nice guy really put in efforts to understand and respect it, it didn't work out though but that was due to different reasons. But the guy I am currently with is Australian his family structure bis pretty much similar to mine they live in nuclear families but very involved with each other, extended families are also a part of their regular lives so it was easy to blend it , sure some food related and some here and there cultural issues were there but it wasn't something that I couldn't handle. That's why I felt that they have kind of reached in the middle ground of cultures but maybe it's just his family.

Stepdrama2020's picture

You are on here for a "friend"?

What is the issue. Does your "friend" have a SD? 

Rumplestiltskin's picture

This thread sure got derailed! Although i guess all this will be relevant if the friend will be a stepparent and will also be marrying into a very different and collectivist culture. I have a little experience with this and all i can say is if the extended family doesn't accept you or, worse, is loyal to a BM from their same background, run.

ETA i guess this all still applies even with same culture. 

ETA again, though, if in an individualist culture, the partner would be more likely to tell them all to fk off and put his marriage before his parents and exes.  Sorry, i'm going through some stuff and arguing with nyself now!

Stepdrama2020's picture

Dang, very sad for a baby to lose a bio mom. Well the good news in your friends situation is  there wont be a BM around to poison the mind of the child. Not sure though then what this has to do with the unhealthy dynamic between a divorced daddio and his princess.

Tell your friend to make sure her soon to be husband is ready to move on and make her the priority. Tell her to guard her heart and remember she is not the bio mom. Is her fiances family accepting her with open arms. Are they treating her with respect and not comparing her to the deceased wife? Thats a big big fricking problem for many SM's.

Maybe she will be ok because the SD in question is a baby. 

Your friend should be the one on here. 

 

GrudgingSM's picture

So many people here have done a fair and thorough job discussing step family dynamics in the context of culture. But you said you came here looking for support for a friend. So I want to address that. I'm not an expert, but this is my advice:

1) Pay attention to all red and pink flags. She's not imagining them. She's not blowing it out of proportion. Note the things that make her feel uncomfortable and make sure she listens to that and addresses those issues. Those problems tend to get worse after marriage. And if that man tries to gaslight her and expect her to treat his kids as their own, then he can back right off. If she's not bringing children into this, Then he can't say he does the same in return. And straight up, he probably wouldn't.

2) separate finances. I know everybody feels differently about the stuff, but I am not paying for the mistakes somebody else made. I am not paying for $40,000 weddings for children I don't even like. I want to treat myself to things and go on trips without feeling like I'm taking food out of the mouths of children. They are not my financial responsibility. And straight up legally, your friend has no rights to these children she doesn't get to make medical decisions or school decisions or anything. But also legally they can come after her financially. There are tons of stories on this site of ex wives using the step parents income to try and get more CS. Separate accounts!

3) baby steps, baby steps, baby steps. If your friend jumps in the deep end headfirst, there's likely to be more consequences. If she and the kid or kids take things very slowly, then they can adjust as they go and feel out what's gonna work best for their dynamic going forward. If she rushes in trying to be step mommy and make everything feel like a first family, she's in for a world of hurt. I personally like my stepmom a lot. In fact, I have more in common with her than my biological mom. But she is emphatically not my mother. And the reason we get along so well is that she has boundaries. 
 

those are just the guidelines that have helped me the most and have kept us for more friction in a lot of instances. Good luck to your friend. I really hope she ends up being one of the success stories and doesn't end up needing to come back here.

Maxwell09's picture

To simply put it: when you sit on your dad's lap for attention do you do it to make your mom jealous or to make her feel like she isn't as important as you? Do often feel like your dad should choose you in any and all situations-not sometimes, ALL, instead of your mom? Because that is the mentality of the type of relationship you are specifically speaking on. There are plenty of educated articles written by specialist going deeper into the subject so you can look them up if you like but I don't think it applies to you. 

Sidebar: I do think it is highly inappropriate for you to be sitting on your dad's lap, holding his hands and displaying any of those sentiments that a couple would display.....but I think this comes down to where we live and how we are raised. In the deep south, it is very common for incestious relationships to occur in fact as a teacher we are told to look out of odd things like this to report because so often it is a family member or close friend that prey on young children so all of these are all giant red flags.  Just a different perspective for you. 

Naina's picture

True I don't want to make anyone jealous. I don't have a monopoly over him but I do know I am important to him and that's enough for me. I actually tried to study the articles  but they are very generic to Americans or more specifically white culture,  we are lagging in the research sector ( obviously your society had more resources , got independence almost 100 years earlier than us )our society needs more time to research on these topic and also a temperament to research on humanities subject we have a lot of bias here in terms of education. For instance, I recently studied that the calculation of normal basal metabolic rate is actually flawed because each ethnicity has a different metabolism and hence a different normal which wasn't considered up until now in the hospitals so healthy people were actually diagnosed unhealthy on the basis of a flawed concept. And teachers monitoring students to check for sexual abuse that's actually a very brilliant thing to do. I really appreciate this. I don't sit on my dad's lap on a daily basis it's usually a joke also with adults who decides appropriate and inappropriate as long as it is in legal constraints. I remember watching American tv shows growing up and close relationships ( instance Monica sitting on Ross's lap in friends) between family members was quite a norm. Then when I met people in US I realised for some people the closeness was okay  and for some it was not.

Dc3sc2's picture

Hi there I'm from the uk and although in comparison to most people I know I have a close relationship with my parents. I won't however sit on my dads knee/sleep in bed with either parent etc. Mine is more an emotional closeness that I know no matter what I do, where I am or who I'm with they will give me their 100% support. I talk to both frequently will call etc. I used to see them every couple of weeks before COVID. We do hug and kiss on the cheek on special occasions like birthday Xmas. Maybe it's a culture thing.
Small children get mega loved on though. Loads of hugs but as they get older I think it naturally tapers off. Even with my own children I'm not as physically close as I was when they were younger. They still get hugs and kisses told they are loved but we don't "snuggle up" like we did when they were younger they don't spend time laying in bed with me they don't hold my hand everywhere (only while crossing busy roads now). 
My sd10 usually gets in the middle of me and dh to cuddle him effectively pushing me away from him or sits on him so her body is covering his. She also says things like "he's MY daddy" if one of my children tries to give him a hug or if I'm sat next to him. If we are out she will hold BOTH his hands so he can't hold hands with anyone else. In my opinion she might as well p**s on him to mark her territory. Because all these actions are followed by her shooting daggers at the 'invader.' She used to intentionally break all my things no one else's items got touched but she always managed to accidentally break/rip/smash anything of mine. She doesn't do it anymore either because she got fed up of being told off or because I don't have anything left that's breakable. Could be something really ridiculous I stuck some foam letters to a door saying "I love you more" for my dh so she got a pen and scribbled on them. They didn't cost anything they were left over from a craft project we (me and mine) had already done. So no harm done financially but that she had to ruin it was really upsetting. These are the kids I think most are talking about when they're talking about this type of stuff.