How should I handle this?
I disengaged over a year ago and it has been a relief. However, now I'm seeing the downside. I'm looking for advice on how to handle an upcoming event.
My husband and members of his family living on our side of the country reconnected with a distant relative about a year ago. They all went to this woman's house and had a meal. I stayed home because I wanted to avoid SD, even though I wasn't officially disengaged then. I couldn't fathom all that tension at this old woman's house and worried what digs SD might make. At the time, I feigned illness to husband, but shortly after, I disengaged and told him I was disengaging, so he knows what's up.
I am now aware that there is a March date set for another gathering like this and my husband plans to attend, but my husband has not told me about it. The same family members also intend to go, including SD, who was the first to RSVP, as usual.
I am sort of estranged from husband's family. There's a geographical distance issue, which creates a timing and expense issue when planning visits. Also, historically, every time I saw his extended family, SD managed to get off work and travel across the country to be there for the duration. It became so uncomfortable over the years with some very ugly blowups by SD that I eventually stopped visiting his extended family. I have seen my MIL twice in probably five years. She's very old. I might never see her again. When husband and I discuss a trip to see extended family, I am never told if SD will magically appear, so I stopped risking it and let him go alone. Interestingly, since I stopped going, SD doesn't go. Hmmmm.
I've been edged out of his family by SD. Yes, it was my choice not to be where SD is (disengaged). But I made that choice because of aggressive treatment by SD and my husband's utter inability to defend me, no matter how egregious her behavior. And because they tend to do things as a clan, I'm always outside looking in.
I remember my husband returning from last year's dinner with this distant relative. He told me how wonderful she is and that I must meet her sometime. But the recent emailed invitation from this person was to "the group," and SD has already RSVP'd and I haven't even been notified it's happening. I'm sure my husband is wondering how the hell he's going to bring this up because SD has already claimed her seat, which means I won't go. I will watch him squirm. But I'm squirming too.
I've been thinking about how to handle this, especially given the advantage of knowing about it without him knowing I know about it. I've toyed with telling husband he should tell SD he'd like me to meet this relative and asking her to stay home because otherwise it will be too tense. After all, on many occasions SD told husband to leave me at home so they could be alone and he did it. Surely this isn't such an unfair request in light of that. But I already know husband won't do it and it will just be a big ugly fight that I will lose. This idea is sort of my Walter Mitty dream of how it would be handled.
Realistically, I have few options. Should I just say screw it, I have no need to be part of his family and stay away? I feel as if SD has cheated me out of having relationships with so many in his family. I've written about SD's FB campaign several years ago that resulted in several of husband's family "liking" a nasty comment she wrote about me. I won't be around these people now, which dramatically reduces my already limited time with husband's family.
I don't deny that there's part of me that feels like SD just kept up bullying me until I finally relented and always stay home - exactly where she wants me. I feel like she just kept up until she got what she wanted. That's fine when it's just about her. I don't want to see her. And she has a right to avoid people she despises and I guess I'm one of them. But does she have the right to keep me from his entire family? And is she keeping me from them if it's my choice not to go to avoid her? I don't want more than my share. But I deserve my share.
I only see these two options: he tells her to stay home so I can go (won't happen), or me just skipping it again. Are there any options I'm missing? Any compromises? Any advice on this whole this? I appreciate any thoughts. I know I keep going on and on about this in these blog posts. I have enjoyed disengagement, but I knew there'd be ripple effects like this. I'm just trying to figure out what's fair and reasonable.
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Third option, if your husband
Third option, if your husband wants you to meet this person you and your husband should take her out to dinner. Just the 3 of you. This way you can meet her and have one on one conversation. Just a thought.
I like this - so obvious! I
I like this - so obvious! I get so overwrought, anxious and tense when this stuff arises that I don't tend to see the obvious! It would be much more fun one-on-one than dodging barbs. Thanks, queensway.
I agree that this option is
I agree that this option is possibly the best one too.
I don't believe that guests should be given the power to dictate guest lists to hosts.. so.. you don't get to tell your DH to get his SD to stay home. In fact, how do you think that would play out anyway. I can give you a few guesses. 1. She goes anyway and causes a big scene. 2. she tells his entire family about the drama and THEY cause a big scene with you.
Also, you said you are estranged from his family. that is not all on SD. Relationships are a 2 way street and certainly, if it were important to you, you could have made attempts to have connections without SD's involvement. Maybe it might have meant 1 on 1 visits etc.. but you could have.. but you didn't because it obviously wasn't that big of a priority. That doesn't make you a bad person, but it doesn't really give you license to come in now and semi demand they accept you in.. without SD.
It's unfortunate that your SD put her father in the position of excluding you if he wanted a relationship with her.. that doesn't make it right for you to do the reverse really. And.. in the end, it was your husband who allowed that all to happen without correction.
Now, don't get me wrong, she doesn't have to love you.. or want to have lunch with you. It's ok if a kid wants time with a parent without their unrelated to the kid spouse around. It's not ok for her to be rude TO you and to get your DH to exclude you from family events. It's not ok for her to make digs at you at events.
You disengaged from his
You disengaged from his daughter not his family. So avoiding everything to do with his family in case his daughter turns up ...well that is up to you. But it seems a little of an over reaction. And now you want to go somewhere and you don't want her to be there.
As my mother says "It takes 2 to tango." So unless you actively engage in a fight or argument or behave in a unacceptable manner in front of the extended family then she will look like the immature one. So you may have to suck up some of her nastiness but you make the family and reconnecting with them the focus of your visit.
I will not allow ANYONE to dictate by their presence where I can be in this world. She can turn up at everything for the rest of your life and you will stay at home to avoid her. It isn't a matter of 'winning' but of not engaging in the battle but show by your presence you ARE a good person. If there are some people who side with her because they are a coven all of their own, so be it. But visiting with the new relative and seeing your MIL should be your focus. Even if you stay in a hotel and cut your time visiting short to go back to the hotel, you will know you gave it a shot and the coven is still circling their potion of bitterness.
Wake up Walter ....yes, the
Wake up Walter :)....yes, the option that you are your own person and can go where you want is something to consider.
You have fear. You are afraid to be around her and you need to contemplate that and understand from where the fear comes. Is it her words? Is it that you fear that you won't know how to respond? Is it you fear that she and the family will gang up on you?
SD is not keeping you from the family, YOU are keeping yourself at home. I know you have your reasons and I have no doubt they feel valid, but if you want to go, then go. Be prepared to stand up to whatever SD dishes out. You don't need to be dramatic about it....in fact, you can act as if it bores you but regardless, be firm about not participating....remove yourself as the target.
I know you think staying home is a part of disengagement but it's not, it's hiding from the SD. You see it as protective and it may very well be what you need to do to feel safe but call it what it is. True disengagement is viewing the person as a stranger. No emotions about them, no fear of them, no anticipation of what they will say or do.
I won't tell you to go but I will suggest you seek out the reasons why you are letting SD's place on this earth dictate all your moves....
Yes, veritas, you totally
Yes, veritas, you totally nailed it. In fact, your post brought tears to my eyes because I think you got to the heart of it.
I am terrified of her. I have been on the receiving end of her tirades and it's terrifying, embarrassing, and it makes me hate my husband for allowing anyone to treat me that way. I've even been on the receiving end of her mother's aggression twice. I don't like Lifetime movie scenes. I am embarrassed that we are at odds. I feel people blame me and I want to scream that I did everything I could to get her to like me. I am ashamed that others might think I am the evil stepmother. All along, I've just wanted someone to acknowledge that I did my best and SHE is the problem. I am a woman's woman. I value women and believe we must empower each other. But I am not used to women like SD - when I encounter them, I avoid them. That is how I cope with ugly people.
On top of all that, I am at the end of my rope and I have vowed that I will defend myself to SD next time, even if she just says something a little ugly, a little jabbing, I will defend myself. But after all these years of her bullying, I might just flip out at the smallest thing. I don't know if I can keep it in anymore. I don't want to go there. I have always been able to say I have never said a cross or wrong word to her.
I'm not sure I'm getting the nuances of "disengagement" as you explain them. After all these years, how can I have no emotions toward her? I can't erase the past. For a year, I've had little thought of her until now. I thought I was succeeding! And now it turns out I've just been hiding? What is disengaging? How do I do it? From beginning to end, how?
Let me stand up right next to
Let me stand up right next to you and say that I was terrified of my SS. I was not afraid of anyone in my life so I knew that I had to dig deep to find out why because I could not go on like that.
I was afraid every time he came to the house, that something I would do or say would be used against me. I was afraid to speak my thoughts as he twisted everything so bad and was able to make DH see his twisted thinking as truth. I was afraid because he would constantly get angry with me and used it to convince DH I was being "mean". I was afraid because he made false accusations against me to DH and my DH chose to believe SS, not me. I really starting hiding away and this even affected my life outside of step life. Please do not think you are alone in this!
I think this is less about how well you are disengaged and more about how you react to a confrontation. You may be doing great with your disengagement but SD is not a current part of your life, so you just have not had much practice on the occasional interaction with SD and you don't know what she will say to incite you when you do, so this is frightening. Again, this comes down to you. Only you can choose how to react.
The most important step I took was I worked on myself. I worked on getting strong in my beliefs and my foundation so that no one, not SS, not DH, not my family or friends...NO ONE could shake me. That fixed the SS issue for the most part. I still have a lot of work to do on me but I see a lot of progress, at least enough to know I am headed in the right direction.
Can you practice addressing criticism, back handed compliments and taunting? I did, and it helped. I acted out scenes in my head. They started with harsh tear down words to SS but finally got to a place where I felt I was keeping it classy and reflected back to him the person I know myself to be. I see nothing wrong with using the same response to SS as I would to a stranger, because he is a stranger to me. I don't know this person. Smiling, saying hi...that is a far as I could take it because I have a strong sense of being authentic, being true to myself, so I am not going to fake being nice when I don't feel it. I am not asking him how he is, how is his job, blah blah blah because I don't care. He doesn't care. Truth is, SS wants to be around me LESS than I want to be around him.
Ultimately, my reactions were the problem. MY problem. MY fear. MY anger. All of that made me feel weak but I knew I was strong. I just made a choice to not live like that anymore and I went looking for guidance through books, online seminars, StepTalk, anything that would teach me how to view myself for how I really was. I wanted to be able to speak with strength, not in anger, but in truth. To not be afraid of my words but to use them carefully to convey my own feelings and thoughts, so that I would feel comfortable with everything I would say and do. And I practiced it until it came back naturally.
I needed to trust my voice and my opinions because I didn't trust them at all back then...I could not defend myself because, what if DH and SS were right? What if I was this horrible person?? What if what if what if???
I wanted to learn things that would teach me to straighten up my expectations and trust myself again while teaching me to protect my own personal rights at the same time. See, I think our personal rights get skewed a lot and we lose the ability to see what we need to do to stay strong because we have SD/SS tearing us down, DH protecting them, sometimes family protecting DH and skids...all this makes us feel like we are wrong in our thinking and keeps us second guessing our every word and action. After a while, we lose sight of our strength as we are beaten down and have little direction. It happens so gently, so quietly you don't realize it until you are there. I did not recognize the woman I had become...my confidence was seriously lacking. I got "me" back. You can get to a stronger place too!
I am sorry for going on so long, I just see me in you and I really need you to know that you have control over much of this, it's possible to change it for the better
Veritas, I so appreciate what
Veritas, I so appreciate what you wrote. I think we're on just about the same page - I have been trying to be more measured in my responses to things, including SD and my marriage. I've tried to work on my self confidence, because I agree, skids really wear away at it. Some other things in my life prevent much movement on self esteem, but considering my circumstances I do OK.
But it doesn't take much to shake my confidence. In fact, it takes almost nothing. And maybe that's why I can't afford to see her. It's not that easy to keep myself afloat. I don't want to waste precious esteem on SD's bullying.
I'll think about what you wrote - what everyone wrote. I think I landed at no contact with SD because it was the surest way to avoid the hateful feelings I had for her. And anyway, she gets to avoid my existence by being nasty; he gets to avoid the guilt of making his daughter be civil to his wife by allowing daughter to be nasty; with disengagement, I get to close that circle by not being there for her to be nasty.
Wow, what a mess. Thanks for your help.
Your husband has not told you
Your husband has not told you about this event, or am I misunderstanding it? Are you sure you are invited?
If it turns out you have the option to go, you should decide if there is anyone you want to see more than not wanting to see your SD. If there is someone you want to see, you ignore SD while you are there. Stay away from her; don't discuss her with your DH since he won't agree with your perceptions anyway. I like the idea above about you spending one on one time with this relative. Stay in a nice hotel and enjoy the spa services the rest of the time!
In my case, there is no one in DH's family that I would want to see enough to put up with the victim histrionics of my OSD. So I don't go. His family is not rude to me; but his sister is a gossip and his brother communicates very little, so I am not missing anything. All they do is sit around and talk about the old days in the town where they grew up, so he's free to go have their reminiscing sessions and I stay home.
I was invited last year.
I was invited last year. Perhaps husband won't float an invitation this year assuming I won't go if SD is there. He'll have to tell me at some point, though, because I might notice husband is missing - the relative lives about two hours away so it will be a full day away.
Regardless, yours is a reasonable approach. I hear this old relative has an adorable dog. I regret I won't get to meet it.
I would not let a dumb acting
I would not let a dumb acting SD keep me from meeting a dog I wanted to meet. And what better excuse to ignore SD? "Oh, I am so sorry I missed you! I was so in love with the puppy and meeting X for the first time!"
If you want to meet so and so, go early, then uber it back to the hotel, tell DH to take his time.
My OSD won't keep me from doing things I want to do . There is just no overlap in our lives, except for her father, and I live with him, sadly for her.
Lambie, I'm wondering if OP's
Lambie, I'm wondering if OP's DH already knows about the event, but has not mentioned it to OP because of past history??? :?
Could be. My DH is well aware
Could be. My DH is well aware I don't want to spend time with his DD. He will clear dates with me on the calendar ahead of time. He doesn't bother asking me if I want to go because he already knows the answer.
Maybe OP's DH also does not want to go? I mean, March is close. One thing these SD's don't realize is that their dads sometimes get sick of the drama, even if they say nothing when it is happening.
I can field this one... My
I can field this one...
My husband is conflict avoidant and always has been.
It is worse in this circumstance because I think he feels guilty that he failed to defend me against SD, whose behavior embarrasses him. He said he understands why I don't want to be around SD. But of course, he still sees her because she is his daughter. That causes guilt and shame on his part, as it should, so he waits as long as possible to tell me when it's going to happen.
He also knows that I feel SD has poisoned the family well against me to a degree. So family get togethers are always awkward because I don't feel welcome around people who jump on the SD bullying bandwagon. And frankly, husband knows by not speaking out, he is part of the problem. So he's ashamed of all of them who were part of that, as he should be.
I gotta tell you, I would DIE if my family acted like this. And I sure wouldn't stand around and allow it.
Ahhh we have the same DH.
Ahhh we have the same DH. Your DH is likely ashamed of his DD but also of himself for being a coward.
If you decide you want to go, tell him you understand you cannot count on him to defend you, so you will take care of crap that arises yourself. When I told him I would handle it moving forward, he actually started addressing some of the issues!
I think that might work. I'm
I think that might work. I'm smiling at just the thought of THIS conversation!
Aaaaaaah, I see. IMHO,
Aaaaaaah, I see. IMHO, there's a 50/50 chance he knows but has yet to mention it.
Lunch/dinner for 3 sounds like a doable option.
I have family members (b!tchsters-in-law) who thought that treating me like crap was "the fun thing to do". For a time, I allowed their bad behavior to keep me away from family gatherings because I LOATHE conflict. Well, I'm not my father's daughter for nothing. The next time it happened, I looked at the offending b!tchster-in-law and said, "Ah, the old 'high school mean-girl act'. I love what you're teaching your children." That became my mantra each time. I admit that the first time I said it (I practiced at home!), my insides were quaking and I thought I was going to throw up. It got easier and they eventually stopped treating me like crap. I haven't been the target of their bile for almost 20 years now.
If you truly want to go, don't let anyone keep you away. Hold your head high, be polite, and look sadly disappointed at anyone who is crappy to you.
Hahahahahahahha..."look sadly
Hahahahahahahha..."look sadly disappointed!" Love it!
Practice that look in the
Practice that look in the mirror. Maybe even give little head shake and sigh...
I think it's only right to
I think it's only right to punctuate my disappointment with a gentle nod...hahahahahaha!
I personally say go, but tell
I personally say go, but tell your DH that if SD starts in then you're leaving. Let SD make a fool of herself, tell the new family member it was lovely to meet her and leave, and then hope the new family members tells SD to suck an egg and be gone for good. Worst case scenario, the family member tells SD and DH that they are no longer welcome, but that's the consequence for letting your daughter be rude and disrespectful.
Or go separately on another night, as suggested above.
Maybe I'm not reading it
Maybe I'm not reading it correctly, but this sounds like a rather large family gathering? Not like an intimate 5 person gathering? If so, I'm not sure why you can't go and just avoid SD?
It would be about six people,
It would be about six people, not including me, of course!
See, it's weird. No spouses will be there because...
one brother is divorced;
another brother's spouse lives on the other side of the country and she has NOTHING to do with my husband's family (??? always wondered about this - seems the ex wives are more welcome in this family than current wives);
SD never brings her spouse - always says he's working, but that's pretty obviously an excuse;
a nephew is single;
and the distant relative is a widow.
Yea, I could avoid SD to a degree, except she will probably be holding court the way she does, so all eyes will be on her. She's an only child, and the only *present* female in the family, so she's used to having the stage all to herself.
Yeah, 6 is a bit more
Yeah, 6 is a bit more intimate than I would be ok with. I'd go with Queens idea of having a small dinner just you, DH and relative he wants you to meet.
Dear dear Marble..... I say
Dear dear Marble.....
I say talk to DH and say you would like to go this time and meet this lady..... DH will probably tell you SD will be there, then smile and say, we are adults we can manage. Stop staying away because of this girl, this is what she wants, to exclude you, do not let her get away with this.
For the event you are going to do the following...
Have a hand full or calming meds, get your hair done, get your nails done, get a gorgeous outfit if you do not already have some, borrow a huge diamond ring from a friend or some gold chains etc - if you do not have some }:)
Then go to the event, meet this person and enjoy it, pretend SD is not there, there's enough people to avoid being in the same conversation as SD,
WE call it working the room, mingle.... be the butterfly in the forest. Be sure you are at DH's side, and if SD approach steer him in a different direction, now and again you leave him behind..... Talk to the host, SD probably told her you are a bitch, show her you are not...
It's time to play SD's game Hon, and play it better cause you are a good person, kill them with kindness, if you see SD, smile and say Hi SD how are you... people will be in shock and all eyes will be on you and SD, she will ignore you and walk away, people will think she's a bitch... SD will bring it over herself, here you are, all bubbly and friendly and there she is being a total bitch. People will warm up to you...
You only need to do this once or twice and invites will be more for you and DH and SD will be excluded, or she will stay away...
Final step of disengagement is not to care if SD is there or not. There's some ground rules for DH as well, he will attend to your needs cause you are the stranger, and it's his job to make you feel comfortable.... You will win him over by pretending you want to be part of this, Works every time like a charm lol..... and Aergia (my SD) usually runs away, her cousins invites me and SO to their birthdays and not Aergia, simply because they say I'm way more pleasant and they do not want her around their other friends
This is good advice. I once
This is good advice.
I once worked with a woman who was a very bitter pill. She always took any opportunity to put me or my ideas down. I always took the high road and was professional and civil. On more than one occasion, I had people tell me that they couldn't believe how evil she was acting. I just said..that whatever the problem was, it was clearly on her side...so I wasn't taking the bait.
Don't take the bait. Be the pleasant guest. Ignore the digs. Compliment her dress or hair. Be charming and everything she is NOT being.
Revenge is truly a life well lived. Show you are living a good and happy life. It will probably kill her.
That Ex-coworker? Well... she eventually left our department and moved to a different office building. Several years later, I moved to that same building (in a different work group) and every time she sees me, she is "oh.. How are you doing..nice to see you etc.... She is just nice as pie. lol..
Some people have success
Some people have success using responses like:
"Why would you say that?"
"what do you mean by that?"
Always respond with some varioation of "why".
If they say something mean about you.... "why would you think/say that?" "what have I done to make you believe that?"
When they give you a reason.... "how did you come to that conclusion?" "did you consider that....?"
Also, statements of confusion. "I don't understand what you mean by that." "Can you help me understand what you're trying to say?"
Treat them like you would a colleague. Polite, to the point, with a view to resolve - but don't tolerate shenanigans. Nothing wrong with saying something like:
"At this point I'm not sure whether you're trying to hurt me or if you're just trying to give others a negative impression of me, but I don't need to subject myself to how you're treating me". Excuse yourself... leave... whatever.