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No ho ho hope for a happy holiday.....

LadyTremaine81's picture

I wish my family was normal. The holidays are coming and I wish we were baking cookies,shopping and able to spend time together. Instead, we are-once again, dealing with the aftermath of a seriously damaged and possibly psychotic SD.

SD14 has gone and gotten herself arrested again. SD's mother went to see her in the psychiatric facility and SD beat the ever living snot out of her mother. For no reason. According to staff nothing happened. BM is hurt pretty badly, and she pressed charges against SD. While going through this process - the facility found a hidden cell phone SD had. In the phone she talks about robbing people for drugs, and having sex for drugs, money, clothing, you name it.....she failed a subsequent drug test and we are awaiting results from the lab.  There was even a Facebook account set up where SD appears to have been messaging some much older woman( my age) and sharing nude pictures of her frequent *ahem* "friends". This woman is now the subject of an investigation because this is a federal crime to send photos like this to a minor. There are several men under investigation. They range in ages between 19- 31. 

I'm not sure how to move on from this one. It is extremely depressing. My husband is ashamed and has been a total wreck the past couple of days. We approached the state and told the workers that she can not come back to our home, and we were told that it isn't up to us and it is up to the judge now. We begged them to put her in rehab or a permanent psychiatric facility or juvenile detention. It all depends on the hearing December 5 we are told. 

If my husband has to have his daughter after this- I'm going to have to file for a separation and he will have to leave. I know what I can handle and this was the end of it. It feels awful even saying this because my husband is my absolute best friend and such a great man. I have no idea where this child came from or what is wrong with her. I can't deal with this child anymore. 

What a sad, depressing and God awful way to end this already horrible year.  


ndc's picture

I hope for your sake and that of your husband that the judge decides to place your SD someplace other than your home (and hopefully somewhere that can help her) until she's legally an adult.  This is such a terrible situation for everyone involved.  I feel for your family and hope a suitable placement is found.

Anonymity's picture

How can any "authority" force a parent to..,parent? I smell BS. People give kids up for adoption. 
Anyway, you're making the right call. SD is a violent POS.

tog redux's picture

You can't give teens up for adoption. They are the parents' responsibility. Some places will allow voluntary placements but you pay the equivalent of child support to the state. 

OP, there are longer term (though not permanent) placement options for her, seems like no one working with her is helping to get her to those. 


LadyTremaine81's picture

NY state has made a law that a group home is now only two week stays. My step daughter has been waitlisted for several mental health treatment options. The plan was her mother was going to take her. I should clarify something. When I said nothing happened. I meant that nothing happened to provoke SD's behavior. Her mother didn't do anything. Her mother wasn't always involved but was trying to help us and that was at least something. Her mother has other children and just had a baby. I don't blame her for not wanting this there. We have other children. This child is a danger to everyone else around her. She has already tried to throw my daughter from a second story window before. When my mother in law had a double mastectomy she kicked my MIL in her chest. She once attacked me and called me some racial slurs and spit in my face. She was sent to a group home, but was recently kicked out of the home.

This whole thing is a nightmare. My step daughter told investigators she was abused again. We have CPS breathing down our necks, and I almost have to be thankful she did this to her mother- because now they have seen what she does, but I don't believe anyone deserves what she did. Not even her mother.

Mom is covered in bruises and bite marks. My step daughter is trying to get to her friends house. Told the CPS investigators she wants to be placed there. This friend of my step daughter's is where all of the problems began at age 11. This child has some serious issues as well, and the girl's mother was allowing 12 and 13 year olds to party there and have sex and it has been a downward spiral ever since my SD became involved with these people. 

I don't believe this is simply a mental illness. I believe it is a personality disorder. I'm confident it is more than something that could be treated with medications. And if she is using drugs it may explain why it seems worse than it was before?

My step daughter feels no remorse for anything she does. She has done some pretty serious things to us and other people. 

When she was 12 we caught her having sex with a 19 year old boy. She had snuck him in. She admitted she snuck him in and lied about her age to us. My husband wanted to have the boy charged for statutory rape. So, we pursued that. When my step daughter was interviewed by police- she accused this boy of violently raping her. She had us all believing this could have been the case. We installed a camera system after this afraid for our safety. The young man insisted this was not the case. Provided messages with her lying about her age and messages with her plans to get him in our home. Once confronted with this information my step daughter told investigators they never had sex. Told them we were lying. Because of her refusal to cooperate- nothing was ever done. It went nowhere. When I asked my SD why she would ever say she was raped like that she said "who cares what I said- he's fine." No remorse. No feeling. No understanding that she could have ruined someone else's life. Just nothing. There is a big difference between consensual sex (even with an older boy) and violent and forced rape. 

There is always just nothing emotionally. It's alarming and frightening. 

This child is a danger to society and she will wind up in prison one day. One day we can say we want nothing more to do with her and put her out- but who will she hurt then? That's what everyone should be worried about. All this system is doing is showing her how to manipulate them. She is learning nothing about consequence or accountability or even how to better manage her feelings and anger. Foster care? Who is going to take this kid? We haven't pursued foster care for fear she will hurt another family. That, and we would still be the people being sued if she did. 

It's a constant cycle of her committing crimes, doing drugs, putting herself and others in danger and nothing ever getting done about it. All we've been told is that this is a paperwork trail. What does that do for us when she seriously hurts someone again? 

I always thought there was help out there for kids- there isn't. 


tog redux's picture

I live in NY, have been a mental health professional working with kids for 30 years, and there is no such law. You are being given bad information.

Kids can be placed for up to 90 days in a Psychiatric Center, and up to 6-9 months in a Residential Treatment Facility.  They can be placed in detention and in locked facilities for kids who commit crimes. 

They are trying to decrease residential stays for kids, but then you should be given wrap-around services at home. 



LadyTremaine81's picture

Please tell me what services are available. Give me something to ask about, please? Please!

tog redux's picture

I can't send you a message for some reason.  Anyway - there are Children's Psychiatric Centers in various areas of the state - Buffalo, Bronx, Rockland, Elmira, etc -  kids can be sent there if they do not stabilize on an inpatient unit. They can stay for up to 3 months. 

Also, there are Residential Treatment Facilities all over the state.  A referral will need to be completed and reviewed and she will need to be accepted.  Kids stay there for 6-9 months.  

There are also Community Residences where kids can live, though she sounds too severe for that - that might come after other services have been completed.

And, NY just started more in-home services for kids with mental health issues.

If she's going to court and will be charged as a juvenile, she will become involved in the Office of Children and Family Services system (vs the Office of Mental Health system) - and possibly be placed in detention (though not likely since she has mental health issues).  She may be put on probation and ordered to agree to any services. 

At any rate, the 2-week group law is incorrect.  This might be a certain type of group home respite where she can only stay 2 weeks but there are lots of other services. 

Aniki's picture

Tog, it may be the way OP has messging set up...

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LadyTremaine81's picture

We have done the psychiatric thing. She did a partial program, and was in a six week intensive program. A therapist once told us she believes she is a sociopath. Another therapist coddles her and does nothing but tell us she needs love and attention. She has never gone without love or attention. Our other children have been back burnered bc of her issues for years. She has also been on a PINS petition. We pushed probation, but they did a PINS. We cannot afford private treatment options, but pending the results of the drug test- we are looking into rehab. I can't imagine such a violent outburst being the result of simply marijuana. The police officer felt very strongly that she was on something when he arrested her. I would still say drugs are only part of the problem. They may explain erratic behaviors, but this was a problem long before just drugs. Drugs don't make you accuse people of rape at age 12. 

Her behaviors are similar to behaviors of someone who has been sexually abused, but she refuses to talk to us and tell us if something has happened or did happen in the past. My own father is weird around her because he always gets the feeling she is trying to become sexual with him. My husband won't be alone with her. 

Her case would intrigue Freud, I'm sure. Her behaviors have so many different possibilities. 

I believe she is borderline, but I've had other borderlines tell me this isn't the behavior seen with that condition. 

The biggest problem is everywhere she goes, every friend she makes,  with every adult in her life she creates a problem. 

Even if she did tell us something now- how could we believe it? She's lied to everyone and cried rape and abuse so many times- that if she had been raped we could not believe that. She's had well over 50 sexual partners we know of at the age of 14. However, based on this phone we found ( which is registered to some much older woman in Ohio)- we do know that she is being abused by older men for drugs and money. This has turned into a huge investigation because of it. 

It's extremely depressing and upsetting. I am not optimistic for her future and feel it is beyond repair unless she starts to see what she is doing to herself with a clear lens. 

LadyTremaine81's picture

We have been told to voluntarily place her on our own is a 2 week stay. The court has to place her. That is what we are working on. Forget about psychiatric care here. That's a failure every time we try that. She behaves like this, we take her- she manipulates and cries child abuse- and they waitlist her for therapy programs. We've gone that route. 

You have no idea how manipulative this girl is. She is smart and knows what she is doing. We had her committed to a six week program and this is what she did to get out. With hope that she would be placed at the friends house. 

It all is up to the judge. I just hope that with so many offenses under her belt now and a serious investigation into the people she is in contact with- that they help us now. 


Aniki's picture

Who is SD claiming abused her? If it's your DH, I cannot imagine that she would be placed under his care. ???

LadyTremaine81's picture

It's him, me and her mother accused at this time. She hasn't been with us in quite some time now- she went from a group home to this facility. Hopefully from this facility to juvie. I hate to say it, but that's where I think she needs to be. You cannot constantly do this to people and get away with it.  I'm not concerned about those allegations. Hard to abuse someone in a facility of some sort for almost a year now. No one has ever abused her. I dont know what Mom did before I came along, but she hasn't been around to abuse her anytime recently. She hasn't seen her mother in years! 

Aniki's picture

Oh, hon, I'm sure no one abused her! However, if SD is making abuse accusations - even though they're false - I cannot believe the system would place her with her "potential" abuser. 

Praying for you. {{hugs}}

LadyTremaine81's picture

I told the CPS workers that it is the adults in her life and family being abused. Asked what they would do if I attacked another woman like she did? I was told I'd be arrested and possibly jailed. I'm not sure why they continuously make exceptions just based on age. I would think a record as a child is less to be worried about than as an adult.

My nephew did time in juvie for running away. He spent almost a year in a facility for repeatedly running away. They wouldn't even allow family to take him in. I think it is because she is female that things go this way. I really do. It sounds terrible saying that - me being female and all, but she receives little to no punishment for things that I'm sure men would be sitting in jail for. 

Thank you for praying for us. I appreciate it. 

Curious Georgetta's picture

that a person is a POS. Would you put your child out of your home or decide that their condition required too much effort if they were diagnosed with cancer?

This girl did not choose to be mentally ill anymore than a child with cancer chose that illness. The behavior is a manifestation of the illness.

Sometimes, parenting comes with some extremely difficult challenges. You don't always get to have sunshine and rainbows. Sometimes, you have to be prepared to go the distance even when it becomes difficult.

You,however, are not this child's parent ,and you are not obligated to deal with her issues and illness. You  know what you can and are willing. to deal with; no one should blame you for acting in your own best interest.

This is a sad situation for all involved. Hopefully, with good psychiatric help and proper medication, this child will be helped.


susanm's picture

Equating serious mental illness with a serious physical illness such as cancer only underscores the OP's position.  Some conditions require care by professionals who have devoted their lives to such work.  Simply loving someone does not automatically quallify a person to be a caregiver either for a major physical or mental illness.  Trying to do so results in everything from unnecessary undertreatment to actual tragedy..  Shaming a person into attempting to deal with a situation for which they are in no way qualified is cruel both to the potential caregiver and the patient themselves.

LadyTremaine81's picture

I thought you meant I was the POS. Sorry. Yes, my step daughter attempted to seriously harm my daughter and has seriously injured a child once before. She is dangerous and has some very severe emotional problems. All of my kids have their issues. My step sons lie and have some things going on, but her issues are very much the worst. The arresting police officer yesterday told us that she was the most difficult child he has ever had to bring in. It's shameful. She was not raised like this, as a matter of fact- until age 11 she was a sweet and very loveable little girl. She was clingy to me and I never did anything without her. Around 11 she made this friend and behaviors started. She started having sex. It's just been a nightmare. For a while I believed maybe she had been sexually abused. I've stopped trying to understand her behaviors. I just want her to be helped. 

LadyTremaine81's picture

What person is a POS? Please clarify? Out of our home for mental illness? She is violent and abusive. Are you saying her mother? Why would her mother want her there when the first contact she had with her in years was being attacked and abused? 

Mental illness or not- that isn't the best way to make anyone believe you are trustworthy and safe. Mom tried. I give credit where it was due. She brought her clothing and some things for her stay and was attempting to spend time with this girl for the first time in years. Mom is a jerk, believe me we have had our issues, but she tried to help us this time. I appreciated it. Mom has done nothing but ask me how I'm holding up after this. She sat and cried on the phone last night because she had no idea it was this bad. Sometimes you have to put the BS and the fighting aside and try to help eachother as humans. She's trying. That's all we ever wanted from her. 

notarelative's picture

Has DH talked to a lawyer about this? I wouldn't assume that what the worker told him is correct. DH needs to know what his legal options are.

tog redux's picture

What they said is true - you can't just refuse to take kids home. It either becomes a CPS issue or if they allow a voluntary placement the parents will pay the state. But there are other options. 

tog redux's picture

I think some state didn't have one and people were leaving teens, lol. I remember reading that story. 

GrabitAndGo's picture

Can't you picture some poor parent thrusting an insolent, smelly teenager at a fireman, and gasping, "Please, take my baby!  I'm in no position to raise him/her!"

tog redux's picture

Around here they very rarely take voluntary placements anymore.  And if your kid gets placed by the court, I believe you pay then, too. 

You don't get to walk away from being responsible for your kid. 

Petronella's picture

Paying CS isn't walking away from your kid. And in this case, the mother is refusing to take in the kid, why doesn't the father have the same prerogative?

tog redux's picture

Right, agreed - but people don't want to pay the state, they just want the state to take the kid and deal with them. He does have that right - and then CPS will become involved for both of them. 

Anonymity's picture


LadyTremaine81's picture

It isn't about paying the state. The state is trying to "keep families together". They do everything they can before they will allow this. And, my husband and I both are afraid of what she will do to other people. She is not an adult. We cannot just kick her out. We are financially responsible for her actions until she is 21 in NY state even if she is in foster care. We have been sued once after she put a child into a coma. Thank God the girl recovered. There are several things holding us back from doing it- the biggest being we are still responsible and the fear of what she does to other people. And then there is also the fact that she is our child and we do love her, that pesky little factor of the abandonment issue. I struggle with it myself- because I raised her. It's a lot harder to walk away when you love the person. I don't like her, he doesn't like her. We do love her. 

tog redux's picture

Agreed, that is the goal. All the options I gave you above are available to you - ask about them. 

LadyTremaine81's picture

We have a lawyer who was drafting up custody papers for us to transfer custody to mom. I'll call and speak to her about our options. 

Siemprematahari's picture

I feel for you and this awful situation and think you made a good call by having H leave the home should the judge decide SD needs to stay with him. You have put up with a lot, for so long and right now your mental health is at stake. Take care of you and yours and know that you are doing what is in YOUR best interest.


Harry's picture

You can not have her in your home.  She needs placement somewhere where professional can take care of her.  
She may never get better.  Somebody needs to find the right medications for her.   

advice.only2's picture

So since BM pressed charges shouldn't that help in keeping SD out of your home?  She's a violent offender.  When does she go to juvenile court for that? 

tog redux's picture

She was, per the post, and will appear in court. But she's a juvenile. They aren't going to lock her up for assault. 

LadyTremaine81's picture

She was arrested for domestic violence and assault.  And, a week ago she was arrested for selling drugs. And last year she was arrested for assault and battery. She put a young girl into a coma last year. They do nothing. 

LadyTremaine81's picture

Court is the 5th. I'm not too confident they will be placing her in juvie. She was processed for this yesterday in court and when we urged the judge to actually give her consequence and asked the judge for placement elsewhere than our home- the judge told us that it isnt up to us and she would do what she sees fit. She has done other similar things and nothing was ever done. We go back the 5th. 

MurphysLaw's picture

That's insane!

 I guess if she murders someone THEN they'll lock her up...till at least 21. Jaysus what a mess! Very sorry for your troubles!

LadyTremaine81's picture

I guess that's what they are waiting for. She's hurt people, is prostituting and robbing people, using drugs and obviously has some very serious issues. They just wait for it to get worse.