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Ladystark's picture

So a few ups and a few downs- super long so read if ya have time! lol

After New years i tried to talk to him a few times and he made the phone calls short - i expected that the way he was sulking- so i figured id give him a few nights then on friday or saturday we could really talk- no kid weekend.

well he sends me an email- and I was a little irritated by it but was not mad till the end. What he wrote really got me.

A little background on the effing cassett tape:  ok he is a bit nerdy- he loves records, going to record stores...he knows and retains names of singers producers- he is one of those people that if a guy produces an albulm and he hates the albulm he will never listen to anthing that comes out by that producer- same with movies. so my girlfriend also is a cassette VhS kind of person- when CDs came out i was all in i never went back to cassettes unless i had to.

Anyway these two are talking about cassettes and records- i made it clear buy my comment of "ugh why do you even keep them? most cars are CD ... when CDs came out i was done with cassettes" so why on earth would this man make me a mixtape for a christmas present?  I did not even want to exchange presents because o felt like it was to early. so he goes on and on about this present- i finally go to my friend and tell her that i think he is making me a mixtape- she is all oh no!  really?  i had no idea what to do my face is just my face and everyone knows when i dislike something- anyway he comes to visit the next weekend and brings this up to my friend- she tries to tell him as nicely as she can that i wont like it, and asked if he can put it on CD. he get upset. so cat outta the bag we end up talking about it.  I asked him to save if for valentines day since it meant so much to him that i listen to it, like no I do not want it for christmas when we are leaving and im fully focused on the trip- i figured valentines day would be nice just us he could explain he song selection whatever, and then id never listen to it again as i dont have a cassette player anywhere. but whatever.

whew- sorry- he makes reference to this in his letter- and i had to let ya'll know why he brought it up in his letter-

*** HIS email***

I’ve spent a great deal of time thinking. I’m not sure if you noticed it or not, but I haven’t exactly been “up” lately. I understood you being upset not being with you children on Christmas. I knew it wouldn’t be an easy time for you. That was a major driving factor for the trip. I wanted to show you a fun time so you weren’t focused on the fact. When you got upset, I expected that. I did my best to try and comfort you, but also give you space. I wasn’t upset or mad. But there were a few times where I was feeling down too. I do my best to try and mask it. I want to be strong for you.

I’ve debated if I even wanted to bring this up. But it’s still eating away at me. I spent several months working on your Christmas gift. I don’t know if you remember what was involved in making someone a tape, but it’s a lot of work. I spent so many hours listening for the perfect songs. I know I’ve brought it up before, a tape isn’t an exciting gift in modern times. But, it’s about the symbolism. It’s like you didn’t put yourself in my shoes and think about all the time and effort that I put into it. You made me a hat, which was the most touching gift you could’ve given me. If I had rejected that gift, you would’ve been hurt (justifiably). Yes, I know I didn’t wear it much on vacation. But, that was because it’s a very warm hat and the weather didn’t justify such a warm hat. I get hot easily. The point is, you made it for me, so I love it. It was from the heart and really meant something to me. That was what the tape was supposed to be for you. But, you don’t go seeking out tapes.

However, the more pressing issue is New Year’s, which stung pretty hard. When we discussed the vacation, you agreed that we’d be spending NYE together. By your own volition, I know holidays don’t mean a lot to you. But, that doesn’t mean that they don’t mean a lot to others. New Year’s is very much a couples holiday. The idea of being around the people you love to celebrate the optimism of a fresh year. The old adage is, the people who spend the New Year with are the people you’ll spend the year with.  On New Year’s we make promises to ourselves to be the change we wish to see. I understand those are generally thrown to the wayside. But, regardless, it’s the symbolism of the New Year, fresh start and optimism. I was looking forward to kissing you at the stroke of midnight. But, rather than having a romantic evening with you, I spent it completely alone. I had planned on spending it with you. So, I didn’t have a contingency plan. Rather than spending what should’ve been our first New Year together, I spent it alone in my house. It was probably one of the all-time most depressing moments of my entire life. Then to make matters worse, when I called you, you were all smiles, laughing, and having a good time. You were around your friends and singing karaoke. I could literally feel like heart shatter. You were enjoying yourself and celebrating while I sat alone. Seeing you all carefree and happy makes me feel like you weren’t thinking about me being sad and lonely. I was sitting at home. Alone on New Year’s. Your concern wasn’t with me or how I was feeling. You haven’t even asked me how I’m doing. As hard as it is for me to understand you being without your children on Christmas, it’s that hard for you to understand what it is like to spend 95% of your waking life alone. New Year’s Eve was supposed to be in the 5%. New Year’s isn’t a holiday that has a postponement date. It’s like the 4th of July. You either celebrate it that day or not at all. And yes, I know what you are thinking. I didn’t tell you to stay. But, how was I supposed to? How am I supposed to tell you to stay and have mandatory fun with me? If I say stay then I am being a controlling person. I didn’t have time to make other arrangements. But, I was so crushed at that point that I wouldn’t have enjoyed myself if I had done anything. I didn’t want to be anywhere you weren't or with anyone else. I only wanted to be with you. Your solution was for me to follow you to your place and then I’d have to make that drive home with all the drunks on the road.  But the situation made me feel very much like an afterthought.

My last thoughts are these, I don’t know what we are. I know you have to be mindful of social media. I don’t care about Facebook. That’s the furthest thing from my mind. We’re on the cusp of 6 months since our first date and I don’t even know what we are. You say you can’t be all in. I don’t know what that means either. Does that mean Facebook or some other arbitrary thing? Does that mean that you can’t be all in with your heart? I really have no idea. For far too long my ex-wife didn’t appreciate the things I did or treat me as a priority. You’ve said you noticed this when I do things for attention. I guess I am guilty of that. I have felt invisible for such a long time that I am waiting for someone to actually see me and care.

I don’t want you to misconstrue the purpose of this letter. I am not saying you are a bad person or you did any of this intentionally. I still want to be with you. I just want to learn from my past mistakes and address things when they bother me. I need you to know how much you hurt me. I don’t believe it was intentional, but that doesn’t make it hurt any less. I did my best to try and give you a wonderful Christmas just to be abandoned on New Year’s. This is after you told me that I probably wouldn’t see you until February. I know there is distance. I know you have responsibilities. I’m not down playing those. But, when it’ll be over a month until I get to hold you, then we should make the most of the time we have. I appreciate you taking the time to read this. I would ask that you please take some time to re-read this letter. Allow yourself time to reflect. Then we can have a discussion. I am not trying to make your life more difficult. I just need more consideration from you.

***** the re-read and reflect really pissed me off***

 

***My response***

I am allowed to change my mind, I am allowed to leave. It was not a binding contract that I stay for New Years.

 

 I knew you were down I have kids I know when someone is sulking.

 

I have things I need to work on, one being communication- I was very clear with you in the beginning that i cant be all in, if you don't understand what it means, and were not sure you should have spoken up MONTHS ago! two- I did not voice very well that I did want to spend some time with my family too(which is my girlfriend) over the break.   it was a long break and for you to put on me that i should be with you for the whole break, while we are still getting to know each other  was a little much!

  I don't feel the same intensity you do- i don't want to be with just you everyday!!  I JUST GOT OUT OF A SITUATION WHERE I WAS HOME ALL DAY EVERYDAY BYMYSELF WITH A BABY!!!! (and guess what buddy being with a baby all day is pretty lonely)  ALL I GOT TO BE WAS A MOM!! so I guess with you it was nice having you see me as a person.  And yes its nice hanging out with you- BUT I STILL WANT FREE ME TIME TOO!! And guess what there is not much free me time!! im trying to figure out what I want and need, you say you don't want to complicate but you are! you want to make this a relationship so fast and I just cant right now!

  Part of the reason I left was because you made it way to heavy for me to stay. Yes, I intentionally left. I got very uncomfortable with how much you were putting on new years, and by your letter you just confirmed your feelings.  I don't feel like making any heavy decisions till my divorce has gotten started!! (key word started)  Its great that you are done and ready to move on, and want to flash us together all over instagram, but I feel stuck, I cant "move on" because I still have to deal with my ex so much right now.

 

about the tape-

you can say " i don't go seeking out tapes" as much as you want-  and try to throw it in my face as much as you want- it does not bother me because I do not care!!   If you want a girl that understands how long it took, how much work and effort it took, then please find a girl that has that interest!  If you want to be with someone everyday then please find that girl that is able. I cannot be there for you all the time.   Maybe its time to just give space I think you need to figure out what type of girl you really want, because the more you put on me the more I don't think Im right for you.

I was already with someone that compared me, told me what I should like, what I should be doing, sulked, and pouted. Also would not let me see friends- id like to see some friends and do things- and figure out what i like and would want.

 

Oh and another thing- I am not retarded I can read! I don't need to re-read, or be told to reflect asshole, or be given the definition of holidays and NEW years!! 

***

so ya i got a little rude in my email.  we have not spoken or anything since.

Questions-  i do need to get back to him I have his little space heater he was letting me use- its going to be expensive to mail it to him should i mail it?

Should i reach out? should I wait?  my friend says I should not do anything  and keep his space heater lol but im not that person...

anyway i think ill be looking for GIRLfriends for now on- im thinking about starting a divorce meetup group on facebook women only lol

Comments

Ladystark's picture

what should’ve been our first New Year together, I spent it alone in my house. It was probably one of the all-time most depressing moments of my entire life---- really the last time he said this was about his divorce, so im compared to his divorce---  like man i need a jackhammer for the concrete he just laid on me! he is alone everyday with his cat- I suggested him getting a roommate but he shot it down so i dont know.

 

justmakingthebest's picture

I just have to tell you my story and I will try and keep the short version. 

When I 1st joned this group I was with my exH. We were married for 13 whole months- rebound from my first marriage that turned abusive fast. This group saved my life. They gave me the encouragement I needed to leave and be a 2X loser in the marriage department. 

My boss's husband had a coworker that was recently seperated too, he was "soooo nice" and I was just going to "love him". So... out of loneliness I agreed to lunch, a couple of dates... one sleep over where I cried afterwards and threw him out. I wasn't there. I just wasn't. 

2 years later, I decided to get on a dating site. I had dated a few guys but nothing really serious and no one that I was willing to ever get serious with. Anyway, up this guy pops. I am thinking to myself- great. This is what I get, the guy that I cried after sex and kicked him out. Oh lord... So polietly I tell him that I just didn't feel a connection but we could be friends if he wanted to grab lunch or catch a movie sometime- he really was a very nice guy. 

Well... we went to lunch and he never went home after that. He is the greatest guy and still wanted to be with me after all my crazy. I needed time to heal. He gave me that. He said I would have been worth 10X that wait. He became my best friend and the best thing to ever happen to me. We got married in May and the past 3 years have been the happiest of my life (If we can delete out all the BM stress). 

I totally get not being ready and not being able to be all in. But don't close a good one out forever. They are few and far between. 

Monkeysee's picture

I love stories like this, that’s great it worked out for you two!!

Not sure OP’s guy is cut from the same cloth. Dude is HEAVY. All that sappy stuff about New Years - after only knowing OP 6 months?! Then the guilt trip about this magical mixed tape? *Gag*

I don’t mean to take away from your story, I’ve got a gf with a similar story & hearing yours really made me smile for both you & my friend.

justmakingthebest's picture

I think the OP just isn't into him. I think he sounds insecure, that happens after being hurt and trusting again. I don't think he sounds like a bad guy, just needing more reassurance from her. 

I don't think she is there- in a place to be in an actual relationship- right now. It sounds like she needs to date casually if she wants company and give her heart more time to heal. I think her perceptions of this guy are skewed due to her last relationship. Of course this is just my humble opinion.

Iamwoman's picture

He does sound pretty controlling and intense. 6 months and he is already sending you a victim letter? Ick.

He wants someone to praise his ability to make a personalized mixed tape. That present wasn’t about YOU at all. It was about him getting credit for doing something he enjoys. A thoughtful gift is something the recipient wants or needs.

You know, we have seen a few stories here of men giving their SO a gift that SO specifically said she doesn’t want, yet he gives it anyway and gets upset when she isn’t grateful. This is a form of control.

It really doesn’t matter what your letter back to him contained, because you are wise to break this off. He is too much, too fast, and that my dear, is a major warning sign of a potential abuser/control freak.

BTW the inconsiderate gifting is not just a male thing. My DH’s exW gave him gifts he didn’t want or need despite his protests, and spent HIS money doing it! It is simply a sign of complete self-focus.

Ladystark's picture

ya my girlfriend said it put a bad taste in her mouth-  and i think cause his ex is off with new guy and her baby - he wants to be in something so he can flash it around- im not there yet-

I dont get that- like how can you ignore someone saying they dislike something? 

My ex did this to me a few time-  for mothersday he bought "me" wall decorations, that he liked....

the tape thing is just ridiculas and kiddish   and just really out of touch and explaining it over and over again isnt going to magically make a cassette player form in my car!! (or make me like it)

futurobrillante99's picture

Wow. I see your POV and I agree that he was pressuring you and I agree you made the right decision to leave early - you have to do what works for you.

However, I think his email letter was a very well written letter. I didn't pick up on any nastiness or major guilt trips. He was sharing his POV and explaining why NYE was important to him.

Communication is definitely an issue between both of you. He should have asked what you wanted around the holidays and you should have spoken up if his plans didn't suit you and his sexual comments and behavior bothered you.

I understand visceral reactions, but I think you lashed out at him and were really kinda nasty. Main case in point, by asking you to read again and reflect, he was saying he wasn't pressuring you for an immediate response. You reacted by telling him you're not retarded?

Did you say you're seeing a counselor? If not, it might be a good idea to help you get through your separation and divorce. And maybe holding off on dating for a bit would help.

Ladystark's picture

i had to be a little nasty- he has not fully been listening-  he tried in the letter to say "i did not intentionally mean to hurt him by leaving"  but in a way i intentionally left, and i knew it was going to hurt his feelings-  no matter what i did it was going to hurt his feelings- if i stayed because of guilt- i would have been miserable and i would have had to put my foot down with sex- which would have hurt his feelings- so it was a lose lose situation.

yes its a very well written letter- and he his like a dictionary-  but sometimes he says things in a know it all way-  i am not great with the writting lol- thats why i wanted to talk to him-  but whatever thats why im getting opinions cause my girlfriend agrees with me, but i still feel like i need to talk to him.

futurobrillante99's picture

"he tried in the letter to say "i did not intentionally mean to hurt him by leaving"  but in a way i intentionally left"

He was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt. Most people will start off saying, "I'm sure it wasn't intentional, but this hurt me." It's pretty standard speech when you don't want to come at someone with guns ablazing, thinking you know their motivations were to hurt you.

There is a LOT that he did on the trip that I saw red flags on, but the tone of his letter is one of explanation - sharing his thought process and motivations.

I've been with a passive aggressive man and a narcissistic, manipulative man. I don't get the vibe from his email letter to you that he's either trying to guilt trip you or control you.

The only thing I felt it important to point out is the quick and incendiary responses from you towards his letter. I think that warrants more exploration. If I've learned one thing, it's not wise to decide you know what someone's intentions are or what is going on in their minds, but it seems as if you have decided what he's about and are angry with him because he made plans and had expectations that you felt uncomfortable telling him didn't work for you.

If we go along with things that someone is doing for us with good intentions, however far off base, and we don't tell them, how can we chew them out like they did it with malice?

FrenchPeas's picture

Are you dating my ex of 20 years. He was awesome with his emails. He could threaten me without even being blatant about it. Very cunning. He was also controlling by using guilt. Reading that BS took me right back in time. In fact, it’s been almost 9 years since our divorce. To this day, he attempts to guilt me with his loneliness and depression. I still get lecture text messages about how I belong to him. God gave me to him. It’s weird and gross. I spent years getting gifts that he wanted for himself. It’s still something we joke about  - for instance - this Christmas he kept asking if I wanted a bath pillow. He likes to take hot baths. I reiterated repeatedly that I didn’t have time to take hot bathes and no, I don’t want a bath pillow. Take two guess what one of the gifts he gave me from the kids was?! Did you say BATH PILLOW?! DING DING DING!!!

you’re looking at a codependent nutball. Mail him the heater and drop contact. Codependent people attempt to make you responsible for their happiness or sadness. It’s not on YOU! I hear the lonely spiel all the damn time. They never consider how you feel. They just can’t emote and get thru life without you or another symbiotic host. 

 

Good on you for bailing. What a damn turd.  And burn that idiotic letter. It was nothing but a huge dose of manuipation and oozing weirdness. Like the time my ex told me that if he was “under my skin, we wouldn’t be close enough for him...”. Makes me want to throw up even now. 

Ladystark's picture

hahah omg you are right!  your bath pillow sounds like the tape!    ya, that line  made me picture a horror movie!! 

Aniki's picture

This is what stood out to me...

I spent several months working on your Christmas gift.

You've been together 6 months and he spent SEVERAL months working on your gift? From when - the second date?? His behavior and presumptions and victim status are such YUGE red flags. Especially so early in the relationship. I'd cut bait.

Ladystark's picture

hahaha  omg- i was so focused on the ending of the letter and him defining new years for me i did not even think about that!!    i think i passed it off as like 2 months- but i never asked when he started it- omg several   hmmm.... I wonder if thats why he brought up talking about the cassette tapes  with my friend the firsttime?! but why did he not toss the idea after i made fun of them and said i like CDs???

advice.only2's picture

So my take away you just aren't that into him...LOL!

I would say maybe take time off of dating and focus on you for awhile. Sometimes it's nice to be alone and to learn about yourself and what you want. When the time is right and you meet that one it will mean even more.

susanm's picture

He made you a mix-tape?  Is he wearing LaCoste polos with the collar "popped" too?  1984 called.  They want him back!

This guy sounds seriously tightly wound.  I get that his feelings for you are a LOT stronger than yours for him but that letter screams of manipulation and neediness.  And you have only been dating for 6 months!  Yowza.

I would drop off the heater with the mutual friend and avoid any additional contact with him.  He seems like the kind that could become a bit stalkerish wih any tiny contact.

Ladystark's picture

thats what my girlfriend was worried about, me showing some nice-ness, and him using the heater to see me- she said to keep it ....im just not that person to keep it.  id rather buy a new one than stare at the one he let me borrow.

hereiam's picture

Nice guilt trip that he laid on you.

Really, there are a lot of underlying issues that come out in this letter but I'm at work and don't have time to go over them (and I'm sure you already know what they are). He sounds like an ass, and kind of pathetic and desperate.

I am not saying you are a bad person or you did any of this intentionally. I still want to be with you.

Well, lucky you!

tog redux's picture

OMG, he's way too high maintenance.  I'll say what I said on your last blog - find someone else, this one is a dud. Relationships really should not be this much work, especially in the FIRST 6 MONTHS.

Step-girlfriend's picture

While this is something I totally would have done, it would be a turn-off and come off as needy if a guy sent it to me. Lol.

This whole situation is all over the place. I agree with some things he did and do feel you were a bit harsh in your response because his intent was not to be mean. However, he went a bit far with guilting you.

The mixed tape thing was blown wayyy out of proportion. He's mad at you because he put all of this time into it and you didn't like it- yes, putting time and effort into a gift is nice, but you should put just as much time and thought into making sure it is a gift the recipient is actually going to LIKE. It's not all about how much time you put into it. And if you didn't do your due dilligence in that aspect, well, you can't be that upset when they don't like the gift. However- there is something to be said for realizing someone took the time and effort to give you a gift, and saying thank you and being appreciative of it. 

I do think he's justified in being upset about New Years. I would have been sad about sitting home alone too. Enough to write a 10,000 word essay to my would-be date about mixed tapes and bailing, leaving me to experience one of the worst nights of my life? Meh. Probably not. Smile All in all, although he has some very good attributes, his actions as a whole would be a no for me.

 

Aniki's picture

As for bailing New Years... what if LS got sick? Disappointing, but unavoidable. Or called into work? Same. She could have kicked him to the curb for his weird behavior before that, too.

My point is that, while it's a bummer to spend NYE alone, it's a possibility. I think he could have found SOMETHING to do so as not to be alone. But I also think he was trying to guilt-trip LS over it.

Step-girlfriend's picture

He did take it too far for sure. One of the worst nights of his life? Easy killer. 

Aunt Agatha's picture

than my teen skids.  This would be a big turn off for me.

You don’t even own a cassette player because no one does anymore. Why not just make you a wax record that plays in an old crank up Victrola? 

Heck, we had trouble at work trying to find a DVD player for a project because laptops don’t have them anymore.

Is he aware of the internet and how much easier that makes things?  Playlists are super easy to create.

But then I suppose he would have lost the opportunity to complain that you don’t love him enough to appreciate his Luddite ways...

Cooooookies's picture

This guy is a nut job.  You've been together 6 months and he's this dramatic?!  So if you don't spend NYE with him then he has no one else in the whole entire world to spend it with...and that's your fault?!  He was warned you wouldn't like a mixed tape and did it anyway.  He was warned by you that you couldn't be all in and he expects it anyways.

This guy is manipulative, clingy and dramatic.  I know this is cliche but....RUN!

Ladystark's picture

i was waiting for you to comment!!  always say the right thing cooookies!   I like the other posters comment too, I mean not even me being sick what if something happened to one of my kids?  Id leave too.  i mean if something happens to my kids or kids get sick plans get dumped so fast!  and sometime when i make plans with him- the way he talks its like LOCKED in for him, but im like eh ill mark it down lol... cause man kids ruin your plans at the drop of a hat!

I know he is lonely he tells me ALL the time-  when I had my daughter and was stuck at home with a colic baby i had noone to complain too!  but those were some very lonely depressing days- and you know what i did once she got over crying everyday and sleeping better- i joined a moms club- like solve your lonely problem - rent out your house and get a small apartment- or rent a room out- or get a maid so you see someone else? i dont know  but i cant feel guilty for his lonely issue.  

 

 

Ladystark's picture

thanks everybody-  its nice to have some other opinions....  ya i really think i need to focus on me- I gave him a shot more so because of how we met, but it was just to soon to jump into things.....i obviously still  need to work on me a bit more.   

StepUltimate's picture

Glad you're here on StepTalk getting perspective & encouragement. Hope you have a great day full of confidence, joy, and freedom.