It really NEVER is enough for BM is it.
Previously I've vented about how SS doesn't share jack diddly squat with DH. He's been told his whole life what happens at his house with BM stays there and he isn't equipped to understand the difference in if mom's drinking don't tell us that, but if you wreck your car, tell DH that.
DH wasn't included in any testing for college info, or even the fact that college was on the radar for SS. It was previously always trade school which I FULLY support the idea for him. He's not college material in my humble opinion.
SS got accepted into college and didn't even tell DH he applied or was accepted. The way DH found out was by asking about SS Senior pics. SS non chalantly told him about outfit changes, poses he did and mentioned one of the outfits being that college shirt.This was pretty close to Thanksgiving.
So fast foward to Christmas break which just ended (they left Sunday). The kid waits till the very last day as I'm up at the front desk checking out and his sister is in the bathroom packing to tell DH that "BM wanted him to ask DH if he's going to help with College tuition".
We are not in a situation where college is in the CO.
This is the same woman who just went for a CS review at Thanksgiving, thats still pending.
My husband has no intention of paying a dime for college. He has been talking to this kid since 7th grade about options and the kid can never be bothered to pay attention. They discussed the military as DH is retired military. BM went and put a block at the school not allowing any military contact of SS. SS used to tell us his mom wouldn't let him go in the military.
DH explained how when he was in school he worked and took the summer to save up to pay for semesters.
I'm just in awe of the ask. I don't blame the kid, other than the timing, but dang.
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Is your husband in a position
Is your husband in a position to help at all? Would he have helped with trade school etc?
If he isn't and you can't afford it, that is the obvious answer to her.
I was not intending to pay for college for SS, so, I will not be contributing.
Lots of kids get some assistance from their parents. They can also work part time to help cover some costs.
If you and he think some level of support is ok.. then I think you need to get more full information from BM/SS on the school, the cost, the amount of FAFSA that has been awarded, if any and what SS plans on doing to cover part of the cost of his eductation.. even if it is just spending money during semesters. Then, you and your husband can decide on a set amount and advise to BM, you will pay X portion of tuition or rent.. directly to the school.
If he can afford it but is irritated that he is being asked so late in the game.. and wants to refuse on that basis.. I can understand. I would try to look at the bigger picture though.. just maybe SS is actually going to put in the work to try for a degree? he may do better .. or worse and it will be a short lived expirement.
He may help with books, but
He may help with books, but NO he's not in a great position. BM took everything when they divorced including half his 401k and a portion of military retirement. DH has been barely surviving for the last 12 years so he has a lot of retirement money to make up for and he is mid 50's so not a lot of time to do it.
Child Support mod still pending?
Will your DH be paying child support through college? If yes, then there is the answer!
The kid has had advice from your husband and still is not willing to discuss these important topics. Id let the kiddo and his momee figure it out themselves.
the pending is to see if
the pending is to see if there is going to be an increase, no college involeved. We have less than a year for him to be 18. I guess she thinks it will go up and she'll get the most she can even if it is for less than a year before he ages out.
I'd want to know a WHOLE lot
I'd want to know a WHOLE lot more before I said yes or no. Although I might say no to helping for the first semester since this was sprung on you so late and your DH wasn't involved in the decision.
What college and what program for starters? Does he have long-term goals, or interest in particular professions? (Not all kids do at that age, and that's ok, but what is he thinking college will do for him?) Where will he live? How much is tuition, and if living on campus or in an apartment, how much is that? What is the estimate for books and other expenses? Most colleges have that kind of info on their website. Has he applied for financial aid?
I'd also have an agreement in place with him that, if you do provide financial help, that he needs to maintain grades of a C or better in all classes, or a GPA of 2.5 minimum, or some reasonable standard. He will need to actually show you those grades or allow you access through an online parent portal at the college. If he falls below whatever minimum you set or if he doesn't provide his grades, then no additional support.
Well, to be fair, it's not
Well, to be fair, it's not really possible for kids to save up for college during the summer anymore - unless they are going to community college, and even then it's a stretch with the minimum wage being 7.25 in some areas.
Your DH is not obligated to pay for college, and I wouldn't blame him for not doing it if SS is a terrible student who won't make any effort. Can BM get tuition ordered? That happened to my DH - he was completely alienated from SS for over 3 years and BM managed to get college tuition ordered in court. Thankfully, SS dropped out after one year in Community College (which wasn't cheap because they had to pay the out-of-state rate). And that was why DH didn't want to pay in the first place - SS was not college material.
He makes more than minimum
He makes more than minimum wage now at his little job but isn't getting a lot of hours due to weather and what his job is. He initially told us he was looking for a 2nd job but when pushed and asked hasn't filled one application out at all.
I don't know that she can get it ordered. They've been divorced 10+ years and it wasn't even discussed or broached in the multiple versions that went back and forth before finalizing. It scares me that there is a chance out of no where that it could be....have you ever heard of that? We are not local and I'm not aware of either state being one of those that have college included in divorce COs.
I'm in a state where Child
I'm in a state where Child Support goes to 21. And even though it wasn't in DH's CO (since BM works at a college and it was assumed SS would go there for free), they ordered it.
Gone are the days that kids can work and pay for college, unfortunately.
The days where kids could
The days where kids could attend full time and pay for it are probably gone... but my SD does work full time and her company pays 100% of the classes she takes in college.. I think she can take up to 2 per semester and be reimbursed... so not full time, but over time, she can graduate without loans. Yeah.. it takes a while... but she has gotten valuable real world work experience and has done really well at this company. She actually has a management position there in HR currently.
Lowering tuition to a
Lowering tuition to a reasonable rate is what needs to happen. No one should have to work full-time AND go to college over many years.
I absolutely agree that the
I absolutely agree that the cost of college has become prohibitive. The student loan process has been a large part of that problem. Since money was fairly easy to borrow.. more kids could "afford" to attend (even those with no business being in college)... so schools could ramp up tuition.. they could build fancy things to entice the loans.. er I mean.. students to attend their schools.
I think it could be attacked in a couple of ways.
1. revamp student loans Don't allow people to borrow more than they could reasonably be expected to repay with a degree from that specific universitie's degree program and graduation rates should also be taken into account. If you want to study the evolution of social media in our society? fine... but I don't think it's reasonable to expect that the job prospects will be great with that degree..haha and allowing you to saddle yourself with debt to cover that? it's kind of being very complicit in the problem we have today. It might mean that if you choose to study accounting or engineering, you would likely be able to borrow more than if you wanted to study "basketweaving". It wouldn't be out of the question to expect some minimal standards of college preparedness in order to get student loans... either a HS transcript/ SAT's.. or initial success in some CC classes.
I get that not everyone that didn't do well at HS is doomed at college.. but I think showing some potential for success should be part of the process.
2. I think there should be some level of tuition reform. Colleges charge more because they can.. there are enough people who are willing to pay the price.. either in cash.. or by borrowing to fill the seats. But, schools are held less accountable for ensuring the students graduate.. and not very accountable for whether there are careers waiting on the other side of that diploma. In order to continue to be eligable for any govt funding.. there have to be some standards set. It's time these schools learned how to tighten their belts so to speak. I don't think it's the professors getting rich necessarily.. but tuition has outpaced inflation for many schools.. and that has led to a lot of the problems we have now...
3. Instead of the military being the only option for kids getting "free college".. It would be good to have another outlet for government service that would allow for some amount of subsidizing their college educations. Sign up for the program.. and we will pay a modest wage for the 2 years and you will get a stipend towards what might amount to a decent offset for your in-state tuition. You may still need loans but you might not end up with near the level that people see now. Fold in some college prep training in that program so that kids are better prepared to do the work too? It might delay going to school by a couple of years.. but that maturing time would likely do a lot of kids some good...they would get real world full time work experience.
Supply vs Demand.
Supply vs Demand.
There aren't enough seats for everyone to go, but people have been beating the "you have to go to college" drum for decades. Online nano-degrees from places like Udemy have become an option for some careers. I agree people should only be allowed to borrow what they can be expected to pay back for a specific career. Useless degrees should only be allowed to those who can afford to pay cash. But even then, I still don't think there are enough seats to meet demand. Colleges need incentive to create more seats.
That would fill some empty buildings and create more jobs.
I actually think some
I actually think some colleges are closing due to low enrollment - people can't afford it anymore. And COVID has accelerated that.
https://www.highereddive.com/news/how-many-colleges-and-universities-hav...
BM in my situation makes 100K to teach 2 online classes. TWO whole classes. BADLY. I know that's not the norm, but if there many others like her, that's a huge issue.
I don't exactly know how..
I don't exactly know how.. but we need to figure out how to get to the point where a degree isn't the only way in to a decent career. I think that for a lot of kids, it's not so much the knowledge they get in school.. but the maturing process that needs to happen. And I can understand the military being a tough comittment and def not for everyone... but pushing other ways to get to adulthood careers would be great.
How is it legal for college
How is it legal for college to be ordered? Is that in all states? That's scary if you're in a state where CS goes to 18 then that gets sprung on you!
No, it's different in every
No, it's different in every state - my state goes to 21 for Child Support, so not really surprising.
Shellpell, yes.
Shellpell, yes.
DH's response should have
DH's response should have been "Sounds like you and BM have it all figured out."
Exactly!
Exactly!
Not that your husband is
Not that your husband is under ANY obligation, but has he used his post 911 GI bill for himself? There is a lot of money to be had towards college and your DH should have allotted at least a month of funds to go to him before he retired.
Thankfully that is something that can be changed at any time, so your DH can set up however many months he wants to give to SS and he can set stipulations of holiday time, school breaks, dinner, weekly calls, etc. If SS wants to keep him cut off, DH can turn off the $.
As a bio parent I needed a
As a bio parent I needed a lot more information. What are you planning to major in? Why this school? Did you apply to any other colleges? Is the FASCA completed? What financial aid do you expect? Have you applied for work study? You don't get me to pay without full details and a solid plan. And I expect to see semester grades.
BM is custodial. Her info should be on the FASCA. It's her responsibility to fill it out. It's son's responsibility to present the full financials to his father. Once DH has the full picture he can then decide on what, if any, his contribution will be. (My youngest changed his major when I refused to finance his first flight of fantasy.)
Since CS is back in court, DH may want to know if it is going to be extended for college before he commits to an amount.
DH needs to be prepared to say no to co-signing loans.
Satan told GBM that she plans
Satan told GBM that she plans to live off Killjoy once she graduates HS. College is not mentioned either way in DH's CO. In the past, if it wasn't mentioned, it wasn't included, but that is starting to change, and I'm worried about it.
https://www.natlawreview.com/article/are-divorced-parents-required-to-pa...
Theoretically, Satan could go after DH to pay for Killjoy's college tuition and living expenses. Which really pisses me off, because married couples get to choose how much they want to pay and what conditions they want to set.
IMO, more kids should go to trade school or join the military, or just accept that they aren't college material and learn to live on whatever career they can get. Too many are going to college and bombing out, or getting useless degrees. I wanted to join the military but I got pregnant as a teen. I paid my own way through college, took on student loans, and paid them off. I actually got a useful degree, but now I'm not even using it. People in my field make great money and most of my coworkers don't have degrees.
I literally always wanted to ask Satan this question. "How much is enough?" Because no matter how much she got, she always complained. Greedy AF. Would 100% of DH's income be enough? 100% of our combined incomes? More? Plus all our assets? I'm really curious.
I can only give you my
I can only give you my perspective dealing with DH and a PAS'd out OSD18 who didn't speak or communicate with DH for the laast two years and barely any communication 2 years before that. So an almost lack of communication about anything for 4 years. Then out of the blue, oh, BM you'd like DH to tell you how much college $ he'll cough up for OSD?
DH said nope, not unless OSD has a conversation with me about it. At 18 and looking at colleges, she should be able to iterate what schools she's looking at and why, what costs are involved, where they are, where she plans on living, etc. Like pretty much any kid who's off to college SHOULD be able to do. Well, that call ended in her and BM yelling at DH because he dared to ask "why now" (because he's not a wallet only) and had questions for her. Apparently they expected a blank check?!
He agreed to complete the FAFSA (as OSD, of course, is applying to expensive out of state private women's only colleges - of which DH had no input). He did not agree to any amount of payment with OSD/BM. We do live in a state in which CS ends at 18 after high school, or the end of the summer (August) after they are 18 if enrolled in college. The CS agreement states that BM and DH 'must agree' to college cost coverage, but there's nothing specific. HOWEVER we live in a state that can require the non-custodial parent to pay anyway, even if there is PAS or any other estrangement involved - I agree with the above poster who noted that if they were married they couldn't be forced to pay for college costs but divorced? Meh - make 'em pay even if they have 0% say is anything. It's extortion IMHO. ----} "...pisses me off, because married couples get to choose how much they want to pay and what conditions they want to set."
Note though that there's sometimes an out to the parent paying for college requirement: 1. If the student doesn't allow the paying parent to have full access to school information and grades and 2. Once they reach age 23 or 3. if they flunk out.
If he isn't the custodial
If he isn't the custodial parent.. why would he be filling out FAFSA? If you are married, you have to provide information on your income as well. I guess if someone wanted to be underhanded.. they could pick the parent who would present the lowest income.. like the person without a spouse.. and making less money. But, they ask for the COUPLE's income.. even the step parent of the primary residence household.
I'd prefer to pay for college rather than child support
Where I am, DH had to pay CS until all the skids had finished there education. OSS and YSS stopped after the equivalent of high school but MSS went to college/uni. DH was paying BM a ton of CS and MSS took on a ton of student loans (circa $70k) for a degree in fine art. It would have been cheaper for DH to pay for MSS's accommodation, tuition, living expenses, etc. I have no idea what BM wasted the CS on.
Is this a general american cultural thing
That parents are expected to cover costs of college tuition instead of their adult kids getting a job and taking out a loan themselves? Do they seriously expect their elder parents who should be focused on retirement savings to for out cash and go into debt for their kidults education?
Even rich people in Australia who live in million dollar plus homes tell their kids to get the govt help loan, get a casual/part time job then a real job when you graduate to pay off the student loans. Thats the only way you'll be motivated to get off your arse and be productive
It really depends, I think
My parents footed the entire college bill for my younger brother, for his 4 year bachelors. Then he turned around and got a grant to pay for his masters, and ended up paying my SIL's student loans.
My parents offered me the same deal, but I went to community college and worked parttime. Graduated and they had helped me along.
But they could afford that as well as their comfortable retirement and house paid off.
There are a great many scholarships - some that are merit based (grades and such) and some that are income based and some that are based on ethnicity/background/affiliations.
Then of course you can join the military and its all paid for.
Its the Entitlement Class of America that expects parents to pay for college whether they can afford to or not.
Thanks for the explanation clove
It just seems ridiculous some of the posters here saying courts can mandate a father pay half or all of college costs and go into debt. What happens if he has remarried and has kids with current wife of minor age still in primary/elementary/middle school etc? He needs to prioritise forking out funds for university?
my husband earns a 6 figure salary, he isn't paying for university fees of alienated sd's because they can and should apply for govt loans and got scholarships to make up the shortfall. Hubby just provided a monthly allowance to pay for stationary, books, rent etc and they got casual jobs for the difference/pocket money which they hardly earned anything.
even after finishing uni and being in fulltime employment and living rent free in hubbys home, they still expect a monthly allowance and hubby is too chicken to say no, be financially independent. They pretend they're incapable of being self sufficient like they're little kids.
In malaysia you actually have daughters of divorced parents taking daddy to court that they have no relationship with, ordering court to pay for their university fees when they are perfectly capable of getting student loans and a job.
they only let dad off the hook if he has a disability, pensioner, or has other younger kids he is reponsible for if they're much younger and even then no guarantees. Court can say your responsibility for basic necessities for your younger kids is not enough for you to not contribute anything for uni/college because kids can be considered dependents till 26 if in full time uni and no job. The bio mum is let off the hook completely because mums are not deemed financially responsible for their kids, they'd rather stay home and see their husband work several jobs, on call 24/7 etc as sole income earner with minimal time available for the kids just so they could stay home and max out hubby's credit card. Apparently access to her uterus equals lifetime monthly financial support.
its total blackmail. There are however those wives who do go back to work when kids are a bit older because they want they're husband to be home and spend time with kids and hubby + wife at work equals more financial stability
It has gotten prohibitively
It has gotten prohibitively expensive to attend many colleges in the US. And.. it's difficult for a kid with no credit history to get that kind of a loan. The govt provides a means for some amount of assistance depending on income.. but at a certain point, they expect the parents to pony up before putting the govt on the hook for too much. That kind of sucks when you have kids that may not get any support from their parents.. but the FAFSA still requires the parent's income.
Even at my mid-sized regional
Even at my mid-sized regional public uni, the cost for four years, full-time is around $100K for room/board/tuition. Financial Aid can cover some of that for lots of people, but not all.
So, students can take loans or they can work and take classes as they save enough money. That's a long haul through college, but lots of motivated people do it. Lots of parents help support, or fully support, the cost of a college degree. If they can afford it, great. If they can't, then they shouldn't. My DH is still paying off a parent loan, and he's 72. The kid didn't even graduate.
if it makes you feel better
if it makes you feel better My dh is putting us in major debt to pay for little darlings college. BM told him to pay half and that their kid was taking no loans....he owes 15k like now...i don't know if he took a loan or what...but school starts back on monday and i'm sure tuition is due for this semester which is 15k.
bm took out money on her house to pay for the first semester. i told DH No we are not going into debt....he's doing it anyways. oh and he had the nerve to say " if ex and i were still married we would be paying for it all so why wouldn't i pay half."
we have 5 kids between us and one shared toddler....so yes let's go into major debt so his oldest daughter can go to a 30k a year school....with zero financial aid and zero loans in her name . brilliant. i want a divorce yesterday....