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She doesn't want my kids to go

Gunner's picture

After reading peoples responses, thank you! I texted my wife and asked her if more was going on and did she, yes or no want to go on vacation as a family. She texted back and said yes, her family and then listed me with her and her kids. I texted her and asked why not my kids and she said she wasn't doing this again. Some where I have missed why she doesn't want my kids to go other than she says they don't deserve to. I talked to my buddy and he gave me the number of their marriage counselor. I made an appointment, 2 weeks out, and sent her a text telling her I set us up to talk to a marriage counselor. Boy did that piss her off. I am really lost at what is going on with her, she is feisty but not like this.

Comments

Disneyfan's picture

Other than lying about her reason, what is she wrong about?

His wife, like many of the SMs posting here, do not view her SKs as part of her family. Like many SMs here, she would rather stick hot coals under her eyelids than vacation with her stepkids.

Oh wait, she's also wrong for trying to get the OP to vacation with her kids while leaving his behind.

Anyone else think this is a crew?

thisisnotmocking's picture

Yes

TwoOfUs's picture

But he doesn't pay all expenses. She does groceries and household items as well as "extras." That adds up to a lot...especially in a house with 5 kids...even if some of them are part time.

I'd be curious what the extras are. I know my household isn't typical since our house and cars are all paid for...but our food and extras add up to more than our set bills every month.

Gunner's picture

She has complaints about my kids but I have the same complaints about hers and I wouldn't push her kids out of vacation. I take care of my kids and their needs so I don't think it is resentment.

SMto2's picture

"she said she wasn't doing this again."

This definitely sounds to me like something happened during the past vacation(s) that makes her not want to go. I've been a SM 18 years, and I tolerate family vacations, now better than I used to. The problem with them is that all my DH has ever been interested in is that the SKs are having a great time and doing what they want, when they want. Never mind that it's supposed to be the rest of the family's vacation, too.

For example, when my SSs were young, 5 and 7, DH and I had an infant. We went to a waterpark at SSs' insistence, a HORRIBLE idea for a baby. My DH skipped off with the SKs to ride water slides all day while I was by myself in the hot sun following a baby around who did not want to play in the baby pool. Even later, it was amusement parks. SSs and my bios with DH were always so many years apart, it meant time spent separately while DH went to ride the "cool" rides with SSs and I was by myself with my and DH's son riding the toddler rides. Then, DH would let SSs buy anything and everything they wanted, including always ordering the most expensive thing on the menu at dinners. It would especially make me angry that we had to pay BM the FULL CS for the month yet we provided all their food, lodging, money for souvenirs etc. for the weeks they were with us on vacation and could barely even afford a vacation in the early years due to exorbitant CS. (And scr#w the argument BM still had to pay the mortgage and utilities while SSs were gone, especially since SSs now are 21 and 23 and BM now (shock!) STILL has to pay her mortgage and utilities, just without DH's child support. Note, this is my favorite part of the story. ha ha ha!) The worst part of family vacations with the SKs, which continues to this day, is that DH just wants to do whatever the SSs want, eat wherever they want to eat at whatever time they want. It's as though he's afraid if they don't have the PERFECT time doing EXACTLY what they want, regardless of what anyone else wants, then they won't want to vacation with him again. It's maddening.

Does any of this sound familiar? My guess is that things like I've mentioned above have made your wife miserable on vacations, to the point she would rather not go. It's a shame she had to make up excuses rather than be straight with you. HOWEVER, this is where I have to ask if maybe she HAS tried to tell you the issues in the past, and you just wouldn't hear of them and just shut her down or dismissed her complaints? I hope you do go to counseling together and work this out.

ESMOD's picture

Sure, but why on earth would his wife allow them to PLAN this vacation if she wasn't ok with it at some point.

I think OP needs to tell her that he will deal with the grades issue in his own way. Perhaps the kid has to do remedial math work over the summer? The vacation is for the family.. including her daughter if she chooses to attend.

SMto2's picture

Moving_on, we've wasted money on SKs for vacation before, too. One year, DH insisted we rent a beach house big enough that SKs (who were teens and would not commit whether they were going or not) would not have to commit 6 months out when we paid the deposit and have the option of telling us closer in time. Of course, that year, NEITHER SK went on vacation with us, so it was DH and our 2 DSs in a 4 bedroom house that cost several THOUSAND dollars for the week more than the 2 BR condo we otherwise would have booked. The good thing about wasting all that money was that DH could not deny what a waste it was, so that was the LAST time I had to endure booking a vacation with entitled SKs in mind who couldn't even be bothered to tell us they weren't going.

Icansorelate's picture

Gunner, for counselling, with or without her: There is clearly a communication issue in your marriage. Rather than discuss things with you, your wife has made up multiple excuses and given you the silent treatment. This is the real issue. A strong, loving relationship between two adults involves respectful communication around issues.

Gunner's picture

I listen I just don't always agree with her. She doesn't want me to pay anything above child support for my kids but I do because their mom can't afford it. They wouldn't be able to go to private school and live in a great neighborhood or play all their activities ect. My wife gets really upset but it doesn't affect our home. We have a nice home in a great neighborhood and her children also attend the same private school and have activities. I don't have as much spending money due to supporting 2 households but we do fine and that is what matters to me. I listen and I hear her I just disagree.

ESMOD's picture

TBH.. you earn the money, you get to decide how it is spent right? As long as you aren't sabotaging your future by helping out today, I don't see a problem if it's what you want to do.

For example, you spoil your kids now and then don't save for retirement and your wife is the only one that did??? that's bad.

Gunner's picture

I think I get the final say but I do see it as our money. My wife makes our house a home and I love her, want her to be happy but somethings I won't budge on. I want to make sure my kids grow up having 2 good homes, plenty to eat, everything they need and some of what they want.

Disneyfan's picture

Is her ex paying CS? If so, does he help out with extras? Who is responsible for the tuition for her kids?

Gunner's picture

Her ex is a loser and and owes her thousands. It will catch up to him one day. She pays for her kids extras and I pay a part of their tuition but she has to cover a majority of it. I pay what I can when enrollment comes and she makes the monthly payments.

Disneyfan's picture

So you make it possible for her kids to attend a private school, but she bitches about you paying for your own kids to attend the same school.

She's one of those SMs who expects you to spend on her bios while only giving your bios what the courts require. :sick: :sick:

FrenchPeas's picture

Go without her. Lmao. That simple. You pay the bills. Tell her to take her kids and go on her dime. Byeeeeee!!!!

She can make her own plans.
Truly. Its that easy.

Disneyfan's picture

THIS

I don't understand why this is such a big deal. Why would you want your kids to go on vacation with this woman when she has made it clear she doesn't want them around?

Why not just respond with FINE, then go alone with your kids and have a great time?

Gunner's picture

It may come down to that but I would like us to have a family vacation. I like my family and I enjoy spending time with everyone.

SM12's picture

The problem here is the DW isn't feeling heard and the issues aren't being resolved. Therefore she has turned resentful and you are just now feeling that wrath.
I'm not saying she is right for feeling that way or that you are right for not agreeing. I am just explaining my opinion. She doesn't feel heard.
You both basically agreed to disagree and didn't come to a compromise or solution.

I also get livid when my DH pays excessive amounts of money for the SS's over and above CS. However, that is because BM is trying to live above her means and using DH to compensate for her lack of income. Only he is not the breadwinner in the house, I AM. Therefore if he can't contribute to MY household then he shouldn't be contributing to HER household over and above CS and reasonable extras.

Personally, I would take separate vacations. There is no reason for either of you or your kids to be miserable.
I would NEVER take my SS's on a vacation. I can't stand them long enough to take them out to dinner, let alone spend a week with them. NO THANK YOU!!
They are rude, manipulative brats who would drive me and my BS nuts. So when I wanted to go on vacation, I took BS alone. DH was welcome but he chose to work. Not problem.

hereiam's picture

I would never vacation with my SD, either, but I also wouldn't make plans to do so and then come up with lame excuses to try to keep her from going (and be pissed at my DH about it, to boot).

Gunner's picture

I hear her but I don't always agree with what she says. I try to compromise when I can but making sure my kids are taking care of is a priority to me. I can't resolve the issue when we both disagree. I am the breadwinner but i also share with her children and make sure they don't need anything and have some of their wants. She wants me to stop paying all extra and use that money in our home. It would severely diminish my children's life style and that isn't acceptable to me.

Just J's picture

Tell her it goes both ways then. If you stop paying extras for your kids you will stop paying extras for hers too. Bye bye private school, how will she like that?

Cover1W's picture

You are texting her about this situation?
First trying to talk while she's doing dishes now texting... :?

I'd say there's some communication issues #1. Neither the OP nor his DW seem to be communicating effectively so there's absolutely a disjointed point of view from both of them.

There's nothing like sitting down in a calm way and discussing things.
DH and I have done this with good results (yes, it can get heated but we continue the conversation because we want it resolved)....talking face to face like adults is a good thing.

ChiefGrownup's picture

Well, Gunner, you have done a great thing scheduling that appointment. You can reassure your wife it's not a place where one person gets to be right and the other wrong. It's supposed to be a place where you get a highly trained 3rd party help you communicate with each other so the two of you can resolve things (not the therapist resolving things).

It sounds like you are heavily subsidizing your ex-wife's lifestyle above and beyond child support and the divorce settlement you reached. That's a decision you can make but that is certainly going to be fertile ground for resentment in any new marriage. You have to be prepared to hear from marriage counselor that you may not get every single thing you want. Buying (above your settlement cuz that settlement was fair, yes?) your ex-wife a home she couldn't afford may come at the cost of happiness in any subsequent marriage. It just feels wrong to the new partner, like you have 2 wives.

I believe your kids probably behave pretty well. They have good grades (well, I'm assuming since at least one does) and work at it and that's a good indicator that they are hitting their milestones and becoming decent people.

Your wife has either resorted to covert tactics out of desperation or immaturity. So counseling is a good place to untangle that and the 2 of you find a more successful way to work out your challenges.

Small potatoes like allowance money not coming on vacay will vanish when you get big issues resolved.

And for the record, I wouldn't go on vacation with my SD at gunpoint. We have never done so since the first month after we married and she made everyone miserable. But I would take my SS to the moon and back. So do not believe that sms just don't like stepkids. The kid's behavior can make a big difference. Also do not underestimate how very miserable a skid (or ex) can make a stepparent.

Disneyfan's picture

"It sounds like you are heavily subsidizing your ex-wife's lifestyle above and beyond child support and the divorce settlement you reached. That's a decision you can make but that is certainly going to be fertile ground for resentment in any new marriage. You have to be prepared to hear from marriage counselor that you may not get every single thing you want. Buying (above your settlement cuz that settlement was fair, yes?) your ex-wife a home she couldn't afford may come at the cost of happiness in any subsequent marriage. It just feels wrong to the new partner, like you have 2 wives."

Gunner's wife doesn't receive one red cent from her ex. For her to complain about him doing extra for his kids while her ex does absolutely nothing for hers is disgusting.

I wonder what his wife would say if he decided to stop spending extra on his kids AND to stop spending anything on her kids.

You have to be a special kind of greedy to expect a man to help you support your kids while limiting the amount of support he gives his own children.

Just J's picture

I don't really think that's the case. To me the crappy thing about this is that Gunner's wife doesn't want any of what she sees as "her" extra money going to his kids, but has not problem with it going to hers, meanwhile her ex contributes zero, for whatever reason. She seems to be the epitome of "what's mine is mine and what's yours is mine" and doesn't even contribute her fair share towards the household. She wants herself and her kids to be the only ones who benefits from the extra money while she has no extra money herself. And the fact that Gunner states the extra money he spends doesn't hurt their household one bit just makes her seem even more greedy and entitled.

ChiefGrownup's picture

Thanks, Goosie, and you and your dh do make a good point. Perhaps it's a hint as to why dw reverted to subversive tactics because maybe sometimes she feels steamrolled by someone who is very efficient and direct but unknowingly exclusionary in regards to other's feelings. (I've been guilty of being that person myself.)

But I was looking at it that so often it's the men who must be dragged by the ear to counseling and that is a very bad sign. A man who initiates it heralds a better outcome. I would still give him the points for making sincere and tangible efforts to improve their marriage and demonstrating he knows he has to do some work.

FieryEscape's picture

If my SO said my kid wasn't welcome on vacation then I wouldn't go and I wouldn't pay for one cent of it. I think the OP's Wife is being especially petty since he is the breadwinner who is helping pay for things for HER kids. If she wants things to be separate , then separate the finances and stop paying for anything for her kids.

still learning's picture

Sounds like you and the wife need to ditch the kids and go off alone. Put the marriage first, be a united front. You're never going to resolve anything by complaining about each others children. I work in schools off and on so believe me, ALL kids are annoying at times, yours are too.

Marriage counseling and time away from all the children will do your marriage a lot of good.

ChiefGrownup's picture

^^^ Can't argue with this. Very good advice(still learning)

p.s. (I don't fault the man for putting his kids in private school etc. But the back of my neck tingled when he said he paid for kids to "live in a nice neighborhood." Sounds like he bought an extra house for or co-signed with bm. That would be a sticky wicket for many women and possibly hints at other areas of blurred boundaries with someone who is supposed to have already gotten her fair share of mutual assets.)

Disneyfan's picture

He's also paying for his SKs to live in a nice neighborhood. Why should his SKs benefit more from his income than his bios?

smomofone's picture

I agree. This woman sounds like my exSM. Everything for her and her kids, nothing ever for the rest. My exSM was so petty if my dad bought 3 sheets of stickers (one for each daughter, including her one(with him)) She would take ours and rip them apart.

It caused a huge fight once when my dad confronted her about it...once.

She was the same with his family. She demanded my dad help her mom, cousins, friends. But my grandma couldn't even touch the washer and dryer in our home without the exSM flipping out. My dad too paid all the bills, The entire mortgage, bought all appliances and food and paid for everything that had to do with the kids. She worked part time for her clothes and stuff.

My dad was an IDIOT.

I would be curious to know why this woman is taking this stand. Do your kids disrespect her in any way and you not see it? Do you put her aside when your kids are around?

I don't think its fair that she wants to exclude your kids but not hers. That is shitty and I would say you go with your kids and let her deal with hers. But if that is how it will be then you need her to take on her share of the household bills too. She can't have it both ways.

smomofone's picture

I think his skids benefiting from stepdad is fine but it's when mom decides what is good for her kids isn't good for his bio children.

She can't expect him to pay for a better way of life for her kids, that aren't his, even if it is by default and then get pissed off because he is providing the same to his biokids

I Agree there is more we aren't getting here. There probably is an emotional issue between an and skids. Quite possibly a Disney dad situation based on his description of his kids vs hers. But I do still think she can't get mad over him providing the same with his money to his kids that he does for hers. And if she is going to throw the vacation into it because she is paying for it then he should request her to pay her fair share of the household bills

Disneyfan's picture

"I think his skids benefiting from stepdad is fine but it's when mom decides what is good for her kids isn't good for his bio children.

She can't expect him to pay for a better way of life for her kids, that aren't his, even if it is by default and then get pissed off because he is providing the same to his biokids"

EXACTLY

Especially when his choice is not having a negative financial impact on their home. The wife comes across as greedy, entitled and jealous. Jealous because her children do not have a father who is willing to go above and beyond for them(hell, he won't even do the bare minimum) the way the OP does for his kids.

TwoOfUs's picture

Gunner-money may have a lot to do with this, but it isn't everything. And money isn't just money. As another poster mentioned, if my DH bought a house for his ex to live in, I'd be incredibly hurt and distrustful of our relationship. Whether you mean for it to or not, it feels like you are caring for another woman. That's really unfair to your current marriage.

Also, my DH has gotten much better about this over the years...but early on in our marriage he changed toward me completely every time the kids came over. I am sure he didn't even realize it, but he became more distant, less affectionate...he didn't touch me as much...just disconnected from me in general. I could go on and on with examples...it was a thousand little things...death by a thousand paper cuts. This, at the time when, as a childless SM, I needed MORE connection with him rather than less...MORE assurance of my role and place in the household. Without even realizing it, this made me absolutely dread skid visits...like, physically. I started feeling sick to my stomach and filling with dread about 3 days before their weekends...and then I started hiding in my room, finding reasons to be out of town...running tons of errands. Anything to escape my own home and the constant reminder that DH had his little mini-family and I had nothing. Of course, he got offended and defensive...told me I hated his kids (that was never true)...told me I was a horrible, hateful person...told me that I was the only one with a problem and he just couldn't understand it...they were good, wonderful kids (for the most part, they really were). I hadn't pinpointed what bothered me about the whole situation yet so, naturally, I did displace my hurt and resentment onto the skids. I really dreaded their presence and disliked them in general, which made me feel like an awful person because I could recognize that they were fine, good kids. This made DH try even harder to get me to see how great they were. The more he tried to push his kids on me and force us to 'blend' the more trapped I felt and the more I retreated and wanted nothing to do with it.

Then, one day, it just seemed like DH 'got it' somehow. He told me I didn't have to feel like a mother to his kids or like anything to them...that our marriage was first and most important to him and that his kids have two loving parents and are growing up fine. He gave up his guilt over the divorce and over what they 'don't have' because of it as well as his fear-based, Disney Dad parenting. He started making it a point to spend extra time with me the day before skid visits and also during skid visits. It became more like WE were the couple...the main team...and the kids got to merge into that, into OUR life, rather than the other way around. Magically, I started being able to tolerate his kids again and even enjoy their company at times. I became much more flexible and easy-going about when and how they show up at our house (They all drive now and will drop by. This used to fill me with rage...now I don't mind it so much.)

Of course, I have a different dynamic than you have because I don't bring any kids to the marriage or have any with DH...so I think that adds an extra potential layer of resentment and feelings of unfairness. But the general principle is the same. I should mention...I am the oldest of 6, I absolutely love kids, have taught school for years...adore my nieces and nephews. I went into this relationship EXPECTING to blend easily and just love his kids innately...and this is how it turned out for me. I now care for them and hope they do well in life...and I'm even willing to put time and resources behind them to help them be successful. I'm also 100% committed to making sure they have a solid relationship with their dad. That's important to me. Practically, they are part mine and I take some responsibility for them and how they do in life. Emotionally, I feel far less for them than for my younger sisters or niece and nephews. That's OK...that's success for me.

How long have you been married? Speaking from experience...I went into the marriage full of hope and thoughts of blending, and my sanity and hope started to deteriorate after about 2 years. I started to feel taken advantage of and angry...and also disappointed with myself and depressed for having these feelings...while also feeling cut off from my DH. I would say that, if your wife has really never expressed much and 'suddenly' seems to dislike your kids, this could be what's going on. When I FIRST started having these feelings and trying to communicate them to my husband, it was the roughest for me and I took it out on the kids the most frequently...because the anger that things weren't as I expected them to be was so intense. If your wife is in this stage, and you do love her and want it to work, then I suggest you give her plenty of grace and understanding right now...whether she deserves it or not. Really listen. For me, the thing that made all the difference was a seemingly simple shift. My husband went from assuming and expecting that my time and money and other resources and efforts should naturally be spent on his kids...to realizing that this is a gift...thanking me and being grateful for everything I do for his kids.

ChiefGrownup's picture

What a great story. Glad I didn't miss it. So much introspection and openness and effort o n both your parts. Really a great model for how marriages can shape together when both people are loving and empathetic and willing to make changes and self-examine.

TwoOfUs's picture

Yes. There really has been a lot of introspection and progress on both sides. My DH is a gem. Truly empathetic and just...wants to talk and connect and his love for me is so genuine.

Sadly, I have to remind myself of this fact over and over and still often fantasize about being single again...because I think I have PTSD from "before" -- I wish I had a worse memory and an easier time moving on.

ChiefGrownup's picture

At some point you will forget. Yesterday I came upon some writing I had done during my first marriage. One was a sort of journal entry and the other was a marriage counseling exercise. That marriage, based on this contemporary evidence, was actually much worse than I had remembered.

I had come to the point where I was accepting of my part in it. Turns out that was amnesia at work, not maturity. He was much worse to me than I remembered. I told my now dh about what I found, gave him examples. He said "no wonder you're such a grateful person (toward himself)!"

So if I can forget how bad that guy was when he never did make amends you can forget the time of your marriage where a very good man was a little nuts. It will come.