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DH co-signing mtg for skid behind my back - vent

grace8205's picture

 

After the Christmas sh!t storm, skid returned a couple days later because DH said we all should sit down and talk. I told DH that I’m concerned that he will avoid talking and say nothing. Yup I was right. By the end of it DH just says “well I guess we will just hit the reset button and do better”. I could feel my face turn red with anger but I wasn’t about to let skid see that there is a great big divide between me and DH. All skid said is he frustrated that he doesn’t have his own place and he doesn’t have his dog. Like that gives you a license to be an a$$hole. 

 

I went out to the garage and DH followed. I was mad, I turned and looked at DH and he was in tears. I was sucker! I felt terrible for him, he apologized for his son, broke down and told me he thinks something is wrong with him and needs my understanding more than ever right now. I did tell him I am never hosting Christmas again with his son here because he always does something to wreck it. 

Skid has been much better since, but I am still mad. 

 

Now skid24 thinks he should by his own place so it’s not an issue to have his dog since lots of rental don’t allow big dogs. 

 

DH jumps right on that train, thinks that’s a great idea. Skid doesn’t have 2 nickels to his name and would need to save for down payment. The forced savings/rent that we charge him is $250 per pay cheque, which once the agreed upon 6 months is done there will be $3k which is enough for first month rent and damage deposit but not the $10k he needs for a down payment plus he would need more for other expenses. So by all the talk between the 2 of them it sounds like he will be here longer, especially since the place he has in mind won’t be built for 9 months from now. But no one asked me if that’s ok. The signed agreement says it may be extended upon agreement of all the parties. I’m one of the parties!

 

DH has been very tight lipped about anything to do with skid buying a place, doesn’t even mention skid wants to look at a few more resale homes, I just over hear skid tell his GF. DH didn’t even tell me he was working on skid’s mortgage approval until he asked me for skid’s tax stuff for the last 3 years, then I asked DH and he confirmed. That was a week ago and I have heard nothing, the approval would have come back by now. 

 

In light of hearing nothing it made me very suspicious. So i snooped. Found an email sent by DH attaching an employment letter, a letter from DH’s employer. The thread had the mortgage broker confirming approval and needed some more paperwork to make official. So this means DH is going to co-sign the mortgage. I am so effing mad. I already told him that we or him will not co-sign for skid. Too much risk. If he was a responsible adult I would consider but he is not. He will default in the first year or even the first 6months. 

 

DH is away on business returning late tonight. I’m mad because he is stupid for considering this but even more mad that he was going to hide it from me and just do it. 

 

I have told him over and over again don’t lie to me either outright or by omission because I will never be able to trust you. He lies about so much when it comes to skid, I’m just tired of it and pissed off. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Comments

SonOfABrisketMaker's picture

When my DH got the loan for this house ( I lived in another state), I had to sign a form acknowledging it and giving " permission". You might want to make sure your signature hasn't been forged somewhere.

grace8205's picture

Since the mortgage is not for DH himself but for skid and DH as a co-signer the lender will not be seeking spousal consent from me. 

ndc's picture

Ugh.  That would be the end for me.  It's such a blatant violation of trust - I couldn't recover from that.  I hope he's not really planning to secretly  co-sign.

grace8205's picture

I don’t when or if he was planning to discuss this with me. But I will be bringing it up before any contracts are signed. 

futurobrillante99's picture

I would be like, "DH - if you sign that mortgage application you'll have to sign these, too." Plonk divorce papers down in front of him.

Screw that!! What will happen is that the skid wont' be able to afford his new place so your DH will HAVE TO help him out because if he doesn't, his credit will suffer.

HowLongIsForever's picture

He already signed off on the credit pull if they are getting to employment/income verification.  I think that's more than enough signatures to merit consequences.

It would be interesting to know if he listed household income/assets on his application with SS.

Hopefully for OP they aren't as far down the rabbit hole with the lender as it sounds.  

 

SteppedOut's picture

I agree. This would be the end of the line for me. Not only is he lying by omission (he knows you would say no if he asked), but also showing he will do anything for ADULT skid - your marriage be damned. He is putting his ADULT KID above you and your marriage. 

And so let's say he signed...and God forbid something happens to him. You are married - guess who is on the hook for skid's mortgage....YOU. Super... responsible for a person's mortgage that is not responsible with money. Someone that treats you like crap. Awesome. And even if something doesn't happen to dh, you are still responsible for it since you are married! 

This would be it for me.

tog redux's picture

That may not be true (that she's on the line for a loan DH co-signed for) depending on state laws. Spouses aren't always on the hook for debt they knew nothing about.

But still - it's wrong of him not to check about that first, at the very least.

SteppedOut's picture

She's in Alberta Canada. Quick google search says yes. OP should seek legal legal advice.

futurobrillante99's picture

OH NO!

grace8205's picture

If skid defaults on the mortgage and DH takes it over as co-signer but then DH can’t make the payments for any reason, then the lender could attach to DH’s portion of our joint property and force a sale if it got that far. 

STaround's picture

1.   OPs DH does not have a lot of extra assets.

2.   Even if the kid does not default, the guarantee alone will likely prevent OP and DH from getting loans they may want.  I realize they recently bought a house, but they could move, want a car loan, whatever.  Having the outstanding guarantee may result in a lender saying no to them. 

SayNoSkidsChitChat's picture

My husband got screwed by Biohag by her sneaky credit card/loans debt. It was tens of thousands of dollars. 

thinkthrice's picture

left Chef with mountainous debts and he had to file bankruptcy.  She filed soon after due to her pie in the sky pipe dreams.

futurobrillante99's picture

Depends on where you live if the wife would be on the hook. I live in Maryland and any debt that is one spouse's name is THAT person's debt. It cannot be held against the other spouse.

tog redux's picture

Looks like DH is buying some new real estate!

I'd be most mad about the "we'll hit the reset button and do better".  Sounds like he's talking to two children.  Which is exactly the problem, he treats this as if it's a problem between two of his children.

 

justmakingthebest's picture

I think I would have to make it crystal clear to him that what ever mortagage he co-signs with SS, he better make sure that SS has a room for him becasue that is where he will be residing. 

I am feeling fiesty today.... maybe don't take my advice.

HowLongIsForever's picture

Feisty or not, I'm right there with you.  This would be the final nail in the coffin for oh so many reasons.  

A mortgage is a life altering commitment.  That it is being pursued with/for another party, without conversation, without so much as informing you is beyond the pale.  

Even if you are not legally responsible for the debt, how much will you get to indirectly fund for DHs little ray of sunshine? 

Picking up missed payments, DH unable to contribute in your household because he's contributing to SSs, the financial and emotional hostage situation you're likely to be in.  For how long? The term of the mortgage? Until SS can refinance under better terms? Bankruptcy? Foreclosure? The rest of your life if you stay in this marriage? 

So many (what I assume are) unintended consequences just lurking around the corner on this.  

No lender provides a pre qual, pre app or loan approval with a 9 month lead time.  Whether or not you intervene, whether or not DH voluntarily brings this up before he saddles himself with another mortgage, all signs point to this being a go from what you've written.

That would be it for me. 

Curious Georgetta's picture

Her feelings on the subject. The spouse has a right to tell  the OP his feelings about her snooping into his private affairs with his son.

The OP should contact a lawyer to see if I'm her state she would have any liability for the debt as she is not a cosigner on the mortgage.

If the OP has no liability, then she really has no right to onjevt.

Most couples would have discussed the issue but not necessarily agreed upon the ultimate outcome.

The husband knows his wife's feelings and obviously he wants to help his son 

The O P has to decide given her husband's position what she wants to do.

Winterglow's picture

It would be nice if it were as simple as that, however ...

The SS is highly liable to default on the payments. So, who pays in the case? The co-signer. And where is he going to find the money to make the payments for his son? In the family coffers, of course. 

I can only hope for the OP that they have separate finances.

HowLongIsForever's picture

Just because she may not be legally responsible for this specific debt what makes you think that should the lender need to pursue collection activities that JOINT resources are not available to them?

While the lender may not be able to drag OP to court as a third party the lender will be able to garnish DH, attach lien to personal property (including financial accounts), and damage his credit in the process.  So will the state if there are any hiccups in property taxes.  And the insurance company.

To suggest that simply because OP doesn't sign on the dotted line for SSs mortgage means there are no implications for her beyond a disagreement with her husband is willful ignorance at best.

ESMOD's picture

If his credit ends up damaged and in the future THEY want to get a mortgage or loan.. they will likely pay a higher rate.. or possibly not be able to get the loan at all.  His decision to cosign impacts her in many ways.  In a way, it would almsot be better for her husband to buy the home outright himself and then rent it to his son.. he would have more control that way.

HowLongIsForever's picture

Even going that route - becoming a landlord isn't all its cracked up to be.  Especially when there are already blurry (or non-existent) boundaries between landlord and tenant.

Still way too much liability involved.  More so when it seems DH is not willing to hold SS accountable for much of anything.

DHs new mortgage now cuts into his DTI.  It also raises his balance ratio.  Both are hits for credit.  That trickles down to insurance. Perfect payment history is not enough to trump overleveraged.  They are nearly equal percentages of your credit score. 

The breaks that come with primary residence status are not extended to rental units across the spectrum -  financing, insurance, taxes all get more expensive.

What happens when DH cannot bring himself to treat SS like the tenant he legally is?  Or when equity in the primary residence becomes necessary collateral? Or when someone/something is injured on the property - albeit by their own stupidity?  Or liquid funds are needed for whatever reason - emergency or otherwise - and it cannot be obtained because not only is their joint financial wealth tied to his landlord ventures but DH no longer has the credit standing to obtain it elsewhere?

Could it all work out perfectly and everybody come out of it unscathed and blissfully unaware of how close they were to financial and familial ruin?  Sure.

Would I be willing to bet my livelihood and marriage on those odds? Nope.

If DH wants to help SS he can gift the downpayment - from his own funds without impacting his household needs - anything else is signing up for Mr. Toad's Wild Ride.  

I couldn't do it.  And if SO went so far as to sign me up without my express consent? I could not rationalize or tolerate such a betrayal. 

Hill to die on for me.  

thinkthrice's picture

rent to a friend or relative.   Landlording is not for pushovers or the faint of heart. 

justmakingthebest's picture

So you seriously see no issues with a spouse signing a MORTGAGE with an irresponsible kid. This could seriously affect the OP and her life. If SS defaults on the loan her husband will be responsible. Don't you think that maybe, just maybe that will put financial stress on her and her household???

Don't you think that in a marriage you shouldn't lie and go behind your spouses back??

Seriously CG- some of the things you say on this site are so ridiculous, I just can't even deal with it. 

Curious Georgetta's picture

Rrsources. We are both aware of what our financial situation can tolerate and fund.

As a courtesy we share spending information of it is relevant. Neither needs permission to make an expenditure. Neither of us would put our situation in jeopardy. That  said we have wills and trust and everything that  we own will one day belong to our kids.

Neither of us would object to the other co signing a mortgage for a 24 year old child. At that stage no lender is going to offer a loan that should the worst case scenario come about, we could not handle.

I could more easily forgive my husband for signing a.mortgage without my knowledge than I could forgive him for snooping through my records.

STaround's picture

HI - read all of the back posts.  Her DH is not responsible and they own a home jointly.  This is terrible.  I feel so bad for OP.  This is one resaon not to combine finances with spouse

SayNoSkidsChitChat's picture

No right to object?! She is his WIFE. She comes FIRST even over his ADULT spawn!

mro's picture

I see your point, but it sounds like DH made this decision without knowing for sure how it would potentially affect her financially.  Is she liable for the debt?  Can DH make the payments if/when SS defaults, and will he assume complete care of this second property, while holding up his end of the expenses and chores at the primary home? I get that some couples have more autonomy than others; my marriage is an example.  Since we are both older, and have our own retirement in place, we are financially independent - but only to the point that the other is not impacted.  He wanted to buy a boat, he bought a boat (with his $). I want to buy rental properties, I buy rental properties (with my $).  However I would NOT go out of my way for an adult kid whose behavior was detrimental to my relationship, and I would be very cautious about any financial move that could potentially affect my contribution to the marital household, which comes first. 

The snooping is a bad sign.  I knew my first marriage was over when I started snooping.  Not saying it is wrong to do.  It just means that deep down you know there are serious problems with trust and with the behavior that is being snooped on and that is hard to overcome.

 

So to OP -  going back to your previous posts, does GF have a bun in the oven or not?

HowBoutScottyDont's picture

There are so many....

OP, please print out anything you can find related to this. Separate your finances, and if you have all combined finances, then put exactly half into your own account. Like... right now. When your idiot of a DH comes home, tell him that you know everything. Trust is broken. And that you plan on filing for divorce unless going forward he gives you full access to everything - email, phone, all accounts... and tells his idiot son that he is no longer welcome in your home.

mro's picture

Maybe speak with a lawyer to see if putting the jointly owned house into a different form of ownership that will reduce your liability to creditors, like tenants-in-common or a trust.  Sorry you are going through this. 

 

marblefawn's picture

This shouldn't have even gotten to this point.

If your stupid SS got a dog before having his own place, that's on him. I pity the dog, but you can't pity SS who banked on everyone paving the way for him to have what he wants before he does the work to get it and keep it. But that's history now...

If your SS hasn't found a rental place that takes dogs, that's on him too. Keep looking, junior. They're out there. Maybe he and dad need to start scouring for rentals together -- that way dad will see SS is full of shit telling him there are no rentals that take pets.

Your husband has been taken for a ride (although I'm sure he was belted up and ready to go the way they all are when skids snap their fingers) if he thinks the only solution to the dog issue is SS buying a place. Dad just wants to say "yes, yes, yes!" to this ridiculous plan because it makes him a hero to SS. No credit for you, I'm sure, even though you will also pay if SS defaults.

When you talk to your husband about this, that's the route to take at the start of the conversation -- there are other housing solutions than BUYING. In my area, there are apartment complexes that state right on their promotional materials that pets ARE permitted. I'm sure they're available where you are too. If no rental will take the dog, then the dog must go and SS will have learned an important lesson...but I'm sure if the option is to find a rental or get rid of the dog, your SS will figure it out. He just doesn't want to figure it out if he doesn't have to.

So first talk your husband into taking more time to find a rental -- immediate crisis is delayed that way.

Then you can deal with your husband's grand lie...and it is grand. I don't care if someone else here called it "snooping." If it's in your house or affects you, IT'S NOT SNOOPING!!!!!!!

If he has any conscience, he will be horrified that you already know what he's up to. Use that to your advantage.

You must make this BIG. You must raise such holy hell with him that he never even thinks of pulling this again. You must tell him that whatever half-assed plan he cooks up with his skid, you will always find out, "so wouldn't it just have been better if you asked me in the first place?"

I'd also ask him, "So when were you going to tell me? When SS defaults? Did you think I wouldn't notice that kind of money flying out of our account???" Make him feel ashamed for not foreseeing the damage this might have done to your relationship. Make him see that catering to SS would have potentially left your finances and marriage in shambles. If you can't bring him around to see that, it might be time to move on. But your husband sounds like mine...making promises in the moment to a skid without any thought to the worst possible outcome.

God, it makes you wonder how these stupid men survived to the age they are with such poor judgment and lack of cause and effect...

mro's picture

Even dogs.  Even large dogs.  Smart landlords know they have a much larger referral base if they do not exclude pets, and pet owners tend to be responsible (present company possibly excepted).  And they can collect pet deposits and pet rent.  The only reason I dont take dogs in my rental is the condo association says no. 

Many mid-20-somethings get 2 or 3 other young adults together and rent a property, even a house.  On their own!

thinkthrice's picture

at one time DD and SIL had 3 large dogs and 1 cat.  They were able to get a rental.  Methinks Junior

1.doesn't want to pay the pet deposit 

2. has such lousy credit/work history/ criminal record that no landlord will have him as a tenant.

futurobrillante99's picture

AGREED!!

Annoyed1's picture

OMG! I would be so angry if I were you!!! I live in Alberta too, and just went through the process of buying a house and it was HELL!!! If he doesn't have over 20% down payment, they have to go through a "Stress Test" with the CHMC insurance. You tell your "D"H to NOT sign those papers until he's 100% clear what he's getting himself, and you, into. 

See!! It doesn't end when they leave the home. This just goes on and on. I'm sorry Grace. I hope you're able to get through to him before he financially ruins you.

SteppedOut's picture

In addition to everything listed above...How about skid doesn't have a down payment? Is DH (the d is for dumb in this instance) going to give him the down payment?

grace8205's picture

Skid is planning to save over the next 9 months, however I would not put it past my DH to give him the money. 

HowLongIsForever's picture

Is 9 months the target for whatever property has not been built yet?

If the application SS/DH have started is with the builder's preferred lender with a 9 month build time there is a chance that when they go for conversion/final approval it can be done without DH.  Any decent lender will guide SS on what he needs to do in order to make that happen.

Hopefully they did not enter into a purchase agreement as those are typically done in tandem with a mortgage application for builder/lender combos.

If it's not the builder's lender and he really plans to hold out for 9 months for that specific property, any approval they're getting now won't be worth the paper it's written on by then.  So you may have lots of time to convince your DH that he started down the wrong path before it's too late.  Or remove yourself before he makes it official.

SteppedOut's picture

That is exactly why I asked... mortgage applications do not typically have a shelf life of 9 months. I think mine was 3months to find a house.

STaround's picture

I hope you ladies are right and DH has not already signed, but given the documentation going around, I am fearful.  And I dont see the kid getting credit worthy in 9 months.  this is ugly

somethingwicked's picture

Go back and read what you wrote in November about 24 year old loser skid coming to live at your home for 6 months .

Wow! How this situation has changed.

Layer upon layer of skid bull sh!t is shoveled with the help of DADDEE right on your head.

Skid wants a dog so DADDEE will buy him a condo or something that hasn't even been built yet??? And skid can stick around an additional 3 months while said  future skid home is built??WTF is that?

Am I correctly reading/interpreting  what you wrote (3rd full paragraph last sentence )?

      ~especially since the place he has in mind won’t be built for 9 months from now. But no one asked me if that’s ok. The signed agreement says it may be extended upon agreement of all the parties. I’m one of the parties!

 

This situation is now so out of control ,so over above  and beyond what you and dH originally agreed to which was 6 months move in for his dysfunctional toxic skid in your home while he gets his sh1t together then he is out the door.

You write you have been suckered by dH's tears. You were suckered long before he cried to you and confided that"something is wrong with my son "and asked you for your understanding (and obviously more patience and help.)

SOMETHING IS WRONG with his son alright. AND WITH THE FATHER.

The back and forth in the comments about betraying dH's trust coz you snooped is a non-issue because dH started the deception when he excluded you ,grace, from knowing about Plan B From Outer Space to  buy his 24 year old manipulative narc skid a condo that has not even been constructed . And why is this even being considered ~BECAUSE SKID wants a dog.

I have never heard anythng so asinine and ridiculous.Your DH is a bone head. MY THE DADDEE GUILT runs ever so deep in his soul .

So deep this man to whom you are wed will lie through omission to you of  financial plans that very well could negatively impact you if  skid blows off his responsibility and DH is unable to make the financial obligation.

And skid WILL  screw over theparty of the firstpart(DADDEE ) and thus screw you too.

Let's run the numbers:

A 6 month plan to house skid were he pays $250 a month now has morphed into a 9 months or more plan while skid's new pad is built that DADDEE is going to pay for with a bank loan that DADDEE then gets to pay the mortgage. For 15 or  30 years .What is the going intrest rate I wonder . Yeah, seeming a superfluous question but as this entire scenario is utterly ridiculous what the heck?

And a dozen or so crocodile tears flowing from dH's special eyes,too, figures in this mess because that is what brought you to this  alternate StepHell reality .

dH crying about his effed up son  and realizing there is something wrong (yes, skid is a sociopathic narc) is reason enough for dH to scrap the original plan BECAUSE the screwed up skid wants a dog and also wants to live in a brand new  not even yet constructed building or condo AND he gets DADDEE topay for the priviledge. Skid is TOO Speshul and ,too, his GF wil need a place for the lil bun coming in 9 months. Hey~ could there be a connection there?

 

I'm sorry ...I cannot understand any of this. Are you drinking right out of  your favorite bottle of liquor at this point or mainlining horse?

That would be the only way I would agree to dH's plans.

I would INSIST that the original 6 month plan is adhered and skid is OUT in that time frame ~ Rover or any other accoutrement skid believes he needs to define himself be damned.

You reap what you sow and  there will be  bushels of additional  bitterness to harvest 9 or 12 months from now ~and yourself ,too, to blame because you agree to this change with your silence~ when skid is still there, calling the shots,dH  jumping to his every demand and command and you are nursing an ulcer or aneurysm from the stress. Oh and the dog skid is planning to purchase soon will probably be sleeping in your bed.

You have to stand up to protect  yourself,grace, because your dH will not.

Just say NO.

shamds's picture

Because money is leaving our household to fund ss for something he should be solely responsible for then comes issue of defaulting. He doesn’t have a history being financially responsible so when he defaults (not if but when), hubby has to pay for it taking money out of your household meaning you are subsidising things and bills and if he defaults and hubby can’t pay with money he doesn’t have then your home has to be sold. 

This means hubby has gone behind you back to make you financially responsible without even discussing with you. He lied to you, went behind your back, the trust is gone and this is major betrayal.

this is involving your finances now but never were you consulted, i’d suggest hitting him with divorce at least you’ll get your share of money before he defaults on payments

your husband has not treated you like a wife or equity life partner in any way.