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futurestepmomnowstepgf's picture

Thank you all of you who read and commented on my last blog post regarding court. So apparently proving adultery in court is not as easy as you would think in a fault based state. For the BM to prove I exist she would need video proof, images, or a witness to us doing something sexual, etc. Just having even texts, calls, etc. between us would not be enough to say my bf has committed adultery. On the other hand, having the genetic blood test done, once the results reveal the oldest child (4) is not my boyfriend's, it proves the BM committed adultery. BM is going to then say it was rape, but without any report, any proof, etc. it most likely is going to be thrown out since other than her word, 4 years later, there's nothing to prove/point to it being rape. So that evidence in itself will be enough to get a fault based divorce granted. The advantages are the judge can't order my bf to pay anymore spousal support, the divorce will be wrapped up and done rather quickly because it is proven BM is at fault, according to my bf's lawyer since it looks bad on BM, it is likely a judge will favor what my bf wants in regards to his bio child (not sure how accurate it is, just telling you all what I know).

As for BM taking the child away from him, it is because it is all a game to her. She wants to be able to at least "win" one child to be 100% hers. On 8/23, it is 95% likely that then and there the judge is going to say my bf is not the father and is going to take his rights away from the child. While it is extremely sad and the only person it benefits is BM (not even really), my bf has accepted this is going to happen and after everything, I think it is in the best interest for everyone. BM has proven she is always going to use the older child as a bargaining chip, always going to use her as an emotional game to my bf, etc. It is not right for either my bf or the child to go through this emotional rollercoaster for BM's mistake. My bf could of had all of this wrapped up and done 1.5 years ago if he went the fault based route then, but did not want to lose the older child. Unforunately now, after thousands of dollars later, constant drama, etc. it is going to go that route anyway, but at least he knows he tried. Yes, those of you think he should of just agreed to what BM wanted as being the custodial parent so that didn't happen, but he thought she should not be their primary caregiver, not for vindictive reasons either. 

The goodish news is my bf and I saw the children for the first time in 5 weeks on Sunday. From talking to BM at the court hearing, he had convinced her to let him have at least one of them for a few hours to just spend time with. He ended up asking for the younger one since he did not see her on her birthday. However, when my bf showed up to pick the child up, BM left the door open and the older child ran outside and got upset she wasn't going, so he got both to have until 6 pm. BM reminded him if he didn't return the older child it would be kidnapping since he is not the biological father. So we took them to this cool toddler water park I had found that we had planned on taking them for the child's birthday. We had a great day with them, the younger one had the best time, and then at 6 pm, my bf brought them back to her. Technically he could of kept the younger one since there is no court order, but other than start more drama and look vindictive in front of the judge, there is no benefit other than being able to see her, so he took them both back. He asked to have them on Thursday this week and she gave him a time to do so, so we shall see how that goes. Reason I said goodish news is because now it looks good BM has let him see the kids. However, at the same time you can't really fear for them as much as she has claimed if she is letting him take them. 

So anyway, between now and next Friday, it is really just a waiting game. The BM and her lawyer responded to his settlement agreement, turning down his offer, their offer is her having full custody, my bf's attorney is supposed to respond to them with another offer. Later this week my bf will go see his attorney and they will decide whether they are going to request to go in front of the judge before the genetic hearing or wait to see how that goes then make their next move. Also, BM's lawyer said in his opening statement that my bf has been a "step father" to the oldest. Literally so f***ed that was said. 


tog redux's picture

I feel bad for your BF. He went into court with crappy advice from his lawyer, believing (as well all do at first) that Family Court would be fair and a reasonable process.  Now he stands to lose one of his kids.

I would say that he should see what will happen on 8/23.  My guess is that either it will be postponed, or they will just finalize the divorce, and kick the custody matter down the road.  If that's the case, in his shoes I would agree to being the NCP, and try to get as close to 50/50 as he can get from BM - just to avoid endless litigation and drama that will damage his child. 

I agree with you that it's time to tell the 4-year-old he's not her real father and stop taking her for visits.  As hard as that will be for her, it will be better than BM using her as a pawn to control DH. She's going to use the 2-year-old as a pawn anyway, but at least if he's her father he might have some legal means to deal with that.

My dream is that some day, attorneys stop thinking about "wins" and money and learn about high conflict parents and how to approach them in a way that doesn't make everything worse for the kids.

futurestepmomnowstepgf's picture

I feel really badly for him too. The BM's attorney asked for longer time and the judge said no I am giving you two weeks, so I doubt it will be postponed. Also, according to the judge the kid that isn't his, is a totally separate matter, so it is sounding like no matter what the decision on his rights will be next Friday. But yeah, I agree that waiting till the hearing on 8/23 is best because it will direct the direction the rest of this will go.

Thank you for also saying that you agree with me on the 4 year old that isn't his. I feel a little guilty feeling that way, but really it is in best interest emotionally for the child and my bf. I think until 8/23 he will take time with both of them. I asked him at dinner on Sunday when it was just us that given how things are looking to go if he thinks continuing to see her until she is offically taken from him is in the best interest for him emotionally and the child. He said he thinks it is best for the younger child right now and since he has accepted what is to come, that he rather have them together until then. 

Yeah that would be nice! Like my bf said to me the other day, there really is no "winning" in this, both him and BM are going to lose.

tog redux's picture

 I also started dating DH while he was separated, and in retrospect, this is why it's sometimes not great to do that - it does ramp up a high conflict ex who now has an even bigger stake in "winning" once they know their ex has a new partner he wants to marry.  I can see how it makes them feel both rejected and fearful of losing their children.  Looking back from a place where I no longer hate BM, I can see how that caused her to have even more distorted thoughts about losing SS and wanting to punish DH for moving on.

Anyway, you are right, there is no "winning" in Family Court, not even for BM, though she will feel like she has won. 

ProbablyAlreadyInsane's picture

IDK that he will lose the child...  Unless she has another person willing to step up as dad, courts are slow to remove rights from a parent, even one that's not biological.  And typically if someone has been "acting dad" for so many years (no clue how many, sorry) and were initially on the Birth Certificate, the courts are slow to remove those rights too because it can be "upsetting to the child"  Courts like seeing that a child has two parents whenever possible, offers more support to the child, and lessens the liklihood that the child will end up a ward of the state.  Plus it means more CS moving through the system.

It may not work that way, and I hate giving any form of false hope, but idk that I would count the child as completely lost until AFTER court.  Just wait and see what chaos happens.

Also it's not kidnapping, until the child is proven to not be his AND he's stripped of his rights, he has just as much right to them as she does.

Also to help in court.  Original Birth cert with his name on it will squash any claim he's only been a "stepfather."

Our BM (Psycho) just lied her entire way through court. It was disgusting.  Family court is a messy and twisted place.

tog redux's picture

Apparently in OP's state, they will remove the rights of a parent not deemed to be the biological parent. 

ProbablyAlreadyInsane's picture

That's terrible. Understandable for legal reasons. But logically missing a bit imho. Sad

ProbablyAlreadyInsane's picture

I just looked it up According to her profile, she's in VA.  The legal definition of a father has nothing to do with biology, but marriage. So if he was married at the birth of the child he's the presumed father.  As long as his name was on the birth certificate at the beginning, he's been legally responsible for the child, and has an emotional bond with the child, it's up to the judge to determine, but he has a liklihood of maintaining parental rights, from my understanding.

tog redux's picture

You might want to go back and read her posts - he was told that if BM wants his rights removed, they will be removed.

I'm sure it's usually a man asking for his rights to be removed and BM fighting it, but apparently the other way around, the BM can request it and it will happen. 

futurestepmomnowstepgf's picture

Yes, I read all that about paternity in VA too, months ago and told my boyfriend I thought his lawyer was wrong. Then, this new lawyer told him the same thing, but also gave him more information on why/how this can be done. Somewhere in the constitution, it states that only the biological parents can make decisions, etc. for their children, which he is not. Also, I did research, it is entirely plausible if the biological mother wants to remove the non-biological father from the birth certificate, even if the child is born during marriage and he is on the birth certificate. The reason it is so unheard of, is because like tog said it is usually the father asking to be removed and the court doesn't like to do that just so the father does not have to pay child support. However, because it is the mother asking for it, now there is a court ordered genetic test, and the judge said he cannot order my bf to see either child until it is determined whether or not he is biologically their father, is very much supporting it going that direction.

ProbablyAlreadyInsane's picture

That's literally BEYOND frustrating... Your poor BF, I can't even imagine how he's feeling Sad Good thing he has your support.

futurestepmomnowstepgf's picture

that is for sure, but he is being strong about it. I think the only reason he is coping as well as he is right now is because he is looking at the facts and the logic side of matters right now, he isn't looking so much at the emotional side. However, he also isn't bottling everything up either.

Thank you, it wouldn't be easy to support him if he wasn't still participating in our relationship and talking about things. I am lucky that he is remaining open and communicating with me through it all.

lieutenant_dad's picture

C'Tucky put her XH, my former BIL, through this with her eldest daughter. Had her committed to inpatient psych treatment for no reason we could figure out and listed her BF at the time as father. When XBIL showed up stating he was father and wanted his daughter released to his care, C'Tucky threw out that he wasn't the father.

Several court dates and 4 paternity tests later (for each kid), found out the oldest wasn't his. C'Tucky lost custody around this time, and the court wouldn't allow XBIL to take all 4 girls, only the 3 that were biologically his. He ended up signing over his rights to them all so they could stay together, and C'Tucky's mother adopted the girls (which created a whole 'nother set of problems) after a judge stripped C'Tucky of her rights.

Here's what BM is going to do: she's going to ALWAYS use the eldest as a pawn. Even if/when BF loses rights, she's ALWAYS going to play head games with BOTH SDs and try to pawn BOTH of them off on BF when it's convenient for her (and alienate them the other time). It is a game, and it's stacked 100% in her favor unless the judge has the cajones to give full custody of YSD to BF and let's BM keep OSD. She'll CONSTANTLY try to get him to pay for things for OSD, and she WILL trash talk him for not doing so.

I usually don't say this, but if he has the means to sign over his rights to both kids, I'd almost advise him to do it. Or, get no custody and just pay CS until they reach adulthood. I *know* that sounds like a crappy thing to say and do, but there is NO WAY BM is going to allow a healthy relationship to flourish, and I feel "abandonment" by one parent has to be better than 16+ years of high-conflict alienation.

I RARELY suggest men give up, but with YSD being so young, there is a TINY chance that she might grow up somewhat trauma-free if there isn't conflict between BF and BM. If the court won't give your BF any more than EOWE visitation, despite BM pulling these BS shenanigans, then stop playing the game. Your BF will bleed himself dry trying to fix something he can't.

As always, this should be a cautionary tale to ALL men of reproductive capability. Not all women are crazy, but the crazy ones have serious leverage. Don't breed with crazy. Don't sleep with crazy. And if you do, DNA test that wee babe right out the womb before playing daddy.

futurestepmomnowstepgf's picture

Well that makes me feel a little bit better about how I have been feeling about the situation. I am really sorry all that happened, it is terrible. Absolutely terrible. 

We had a very real conversation about what if at 8/23 he gets stripped of his rights to her what that means for the future about the oldest. My bf said as soon as his rights are gone, he will never pay for, act as a father to, etc. to the child. We both predict the BM just wants it to be legal that the child is 100% hers but she expects my bf to still act as a dad in every way. He has very much come to terms this is probably reality and once it is gone, BM will have to keep the child away, he will not allow her to manipulate him into anything. Which is good because I have told him a few times over the last week that BM has proven she will always use the child as a pawn to get what she wants and she doesn't care about using her to hurt him or hurt the child. I told him while he feels like he might be giving up, that he has tried for 1.5 years, he has fought for the child, most people wouldn't of done everything he has and that he cannot feel guilty for the outcome. He tried and that it is not his mistake to suffer for the rest of his life for.

I agree, I think DNA tests should be mandatory at birth, married, not married, idc. 

Harry's picture

so the kid does have s father.  Just BM does bit want to let him know he’s the father.  Most likely he a loser with out a good job to keep BM in the life she she think she deserves.  

futurestepmomnowstepgf's picture

she knows who the dad is, but he is a loser and thought the best option was let my bf think he is the dad because he will take care of the child. It's terrible, but I really believe that is what happened, my bf was the better option to be daddy then who the actual dad is.

thinkthrice's picture

Paternity Fraud and Wallet (errr I mean FATHER) Shopping

justmakingthebest's picture

The waiting game is the worst. Your whole lives get wrapped up in the stress. It feels like you can't have a conversation about anything else. I know that DH and I keep note pads and pens everywhere in the house, we don't want to think of something and not write it down real fast- It might be important! (It usually isn't, but you are so emotionally charged that you have to do something!)

I guess since custody was never established until now, it makes sense that the judge would take away the older SD. I still think BM will use her as a tool to get what she wants from your BF. I can see the texts/emails now- "I will send OSD too if you give me $500. The girls need xyz." or "I will let OSD come too if you agree to only keep them for 1 month in the summer and not the whole summer". If he doesn't agree "God! I am so glad OSD knows you aren't her dad, you never loved her anyway! I am going to tell her how you won't send her money for school supplies. You only love her sister. Worthless father you are!" 

It is going to rip your BF's heart out over and over and over. I honestly recommend that you guys do some counseling for this and how to cope with the loss of a child. That is what is happening to him and there is going to be some serious grieving- even if he doesn't recognize the emotions. 

futurestepmomnowstepgf's picture

We luckily have stuck to our rule about our conversations revolving the topics. We discuss when there is new information or something that we think should be talked about, we discuss it, then afterwards we move on. It is the only way we can keep some of the stress level down and plus allows us to still have a relationship that isn't revolved around these issues. That is a great idea about the note pad though! I think that is helpful because we forget things that want to be asked or brought up to his attorney frequently.

Well we discussed that over the weekend. That it will never happen, no matter how much it is going to hurt to not see/help/etc. the child, but as soon as his rights are taken from her, he will not participate in any conversation like that or assist or anything. Also, this is not me telling him this, this is him deciding and answering questions I had. 

Counseling would probably be good about it. I mean we both agreed it was great to have them both on Sunday, especially since our original plans were to take them both to this waterpark for the youngest's birthday. Obviously doesn't hurt me as much as it hurts him, but the oldest has always had an attachment to me, "I want (my name),"  was constant during Sunday, as it always has been since I have met the children. I think it is good at least my bf is not in denial and is able to talk about his feelings/thoughts on all of this though, rather healthy than bottling it all up.

WTF...REALLY's picture

 I am so sorry this is happening to your boyfriend and to you as well. When mothers want to use their children as pawns, they are usually incredibly successful. Even with court intervening. 

 The BM in my life let my husband have primary custody when we moved out of her state. She wanted to party and didn’t want the work of raising her child who was in fifth grade at the time. At this stage, that was about nine years ago. 

 So she came to live with us full-time, the mom proceeded to go in and out of jail three different times. Would call the daughter saying just the meanest stuff to her and then would call the daughter telling her what awful people me and my husband are. 

 She never financially supported her child in the nine years she lived with us full-time. 

 Finally senior year, she wanted to go live with her mom so the dad let her. And guess who no no longer speaks to her dad. Yep. Years of phone calls  encouraging her to hate me and dislike like her dad and then finally living at the mother worked her magic. 

 Unfortunately, mothers have a lot to say over their daughters emotional health. My husband tried to do everything right.  When we moved, they shared 50-50 custody. But at some point, my husband had to go for full legal and physical call because of all the different jail time she was doing. He won no problem. 

 And still, the mom was able to turn the daughter against him. Everyone loses when you got a fu*king crazy BM. 


futurestepmomnowstepgf's picture

that people do this to their children. It really really is. I am sorry for your DH and you. Thank you for the support, just trying to take it all one step at a time

Exjuliemccoy's picture

Wow WTF. I can't believe your SD prefers her meth mouth mom over the life she had with her dad and you.

Blood really does tell, doesn't it?

Livingoutloud's picture

She replied to the other poster above, the one whose SD has BM in and out of jail and SD still went to live with BM 

Livingoutloud's picture

I can’t wrap my mind around parental rights being taken away because he isn’t a bio parent. Would they leave birth certificate blank? Outrageous. I’ve never heard of such a thing 

Petronella's picture

I actually think a half-blank birth certificate makes more sense than just automatically putting the husband’s name on the birth certificate even when one or both spouses know he’s not the father. 

Livingoutloud's picture

I agree if it’s initially left blank but not if there was a father before and now it’s blank. I’ve never heard that could be done 

futurestepmomnowstepgf's picture

I feel the same way you do. I told my bf for months there is no way, a judge wouldn't do that. I have done a lot of research on it, it is very plausible and from the fact that he can't order my bf to see the children until a genetics test is done, just further proves that. They are testing both children, even though my bf did a test over a 1.5 years ago himself, it has to be done through the court system. 

Livingoutloud's picture

The reason they are testing both children is because BF goes for “fault” divorce based on adultery and paternity fraud. They check both as part of the process 

It’s also done in response to him wanting to take kids away from their mother and move with them out of state, one of kids isn’t his. None of it is a big shock. It’s a response to his requests/demands 

BF can’t have it both ways: stating BM is adulterous and birthed a child that isn’t his and still continue expecting this child to be his.  Can’t have it both ways. This is the second time him filing “at fault” divorce because she cheated. So what he expects? Judges don’t go around investigating whose names on birth certificates and take fathers names off unless it’s being set in motion.

It’s also likely that they would try to locate bio father before they remove BFs name of the certificate. 

futurestepmomnowstepgf's picture

Not trying to be mean, but boyfriend has not gone for fault divorce yet. The reason they are testing both children is because lawyer told judge they cannot do a pendente lite hearing as one of the children is not biologically his. As one child's genetics are being called into question, the judge cannot legally make a court order of either children until the genetics come out of who is a biologically his. He has not yet followed through with filling for fault divorce where it makes it to the judge, so it is not at all related.

Also, while you think this is true, everything has pointed towards this is actually not the case at all. Especially when BM is claiming she was raped and has no idea who the dad actually is. I appreciate you trying to be helpful. However, this particular situation you are not familiar with the logistics, neither am I, but I do know what lawyers have said, the judge has said, and based on research the way this works a bit.