You are here

Frustrated and Hoping for the best

futurestepmomnowstepgf's picture

So for all of you who read my update yesterday this is just building off the update from the new lawyer. When I wrote the update I was just trying to be quick and was on my phone writing it. One thing that was really frustrating with the lawyer yesterday was he asked for reasons of why my bf would not want to include the older child in the agreement. My bf told him about the false allegation the child already made against him, his rights being taken away, and the whole counselor saying she shows symptoms of sexual abuse and how he does not want in any way BM trying to say my bf did any of that because he 100% has not. The lawyer kept trying to push the issue and wanting to know reasons, asked several times if he was sure he only wanted it for his daughter, and also mentioning he could put in there "visitation for older child as BM and bf agree," so it is not totally off the table forever. I THINK and HOPE the reason he was being this way was to make sure 100% without a doubt, this is what my bf wants to do because once it is done, it is done. Then the attorney also added how asking for both if going to trial, raises his chances from 25% to 35% likely to get what he wants. I was there when the attorney called and my bf put the call on speaker so I could hear everything. He asked the attorney to hold and asked me what I thought, at this point there was no percents thrown out there, just a "increases your chances" "looks good they have rebutted it" etc. so I told him to ask the attorney what he thought his chances were with all the different options. THEN is when we got all the percents and the lawyer basically saying, there is a chance you could do a lot better than what you already have and there is a chance you could a lot worse than what you already have. One good thing the new attorney caught was the last attorney in the agreement wrote something about my bf being responsible for BM's debts and the attorney was like I assume you don't want that in there? And my bf was like definitely not! So basically when the agreement gets written up, my bf will have me also read it before he agrees to make sure it is all what he wanted. BTW my bf is not dumb, but he trusts me a lot and knows I am good at the details and catching things, etc. so he asks me to be more involved than most people would want, plus this all is part of our being 100% open.

So on to the HOPE part of the blog, I hope bf's attorney was able to get a hold of BM's attorney last night. I hope BM will agree to the agreement or at the very least, come back with a counter agreement that is reasonable and something that would be worth agreeing to. BM has said over and over again how she does not want a faulted divorce and if they can't agree, it will be going the faulted divorce route, so maybe that will help sway her. If not, pre trial is 8 days away now and bf's attorney said if it comes to that, he would ask for the default judgement at the pre trial, or it was called something like that, which would give an indication where the judge's head is currently at. Personally, I think the judge already showed how he will rule about not wanting to separate the sisters and will rule that way no matter what he hears at trial unless something really really bad happens between now and then and even then could still rule that way. At least the older child cannot be added to the agreement unless bf agrees and the judge cannot include the child either unless my bf asks for it. I also hope they can agree so maybe we can go into the new year with this being over, but if not the attorney was very certain since custody is the only thing to be decided upon, it would not even take the two days scheduled for trial. So at the very least, mid January this will be over and I could not be any happier about that.

I am happy my bf finally is not going with the optimism of the last two lawyers who have been like "we have a good chance" etc. but is being realistic. Let's be honest, the chances were never in my bf's favor and I think we have both finally accepted that and rather choose what our losses will be not some judge. My bf thinks his lawyer thinks he is a POS for not wanting to include the other child or at the very least has presented his opinion that way, but I also kind of think the attorney really was trying to push him and make sure there was not a chance he wanted to go the other way since this will be irreversible. The attorney also asked if he knew who the dad was of the child and my bf was like no, no idea, to which he was told even if he included her in visitation if the real father came around, he could get rid of any visitation he has, so why on earth would anyone risk that to just make this happen all over again?

Comments

tog redux's picture

I was a little worried the attorney would encourage him to see the older child as it "looks good", and appearances are all that matter in court, really.

DH had several attorneys and they were all nice guys and women, but I now understand why people hate attorneys so much.  They don't give you a straight answer, they equivocate, they encourage false hope and they run up bills dragging things out (however unintentionally).  I was really impressed that DH's last attorney told him to stop fighting BM in court and give SS time to grow up and come around on his own.  I was at the point of leaving if that didn't happen so I was glad he did that, and that he was ethical enough not to run up more fees fighting and fighting.  He even put it in a letter so that DH could show SS at some point in the future when SS asked why he didn't "fight for him" (which he had already asked DH once - oddly (not), BM asked DH the same thing when she had an affair and he left her instead of "fighting for her").

If your BF goes to trial, he will spent 10K+ losing to BM.  And there will be all kinds of lies and false allegations, and zero chance of any kind of coparenting relationship going forward.  That's what his attorney should have told him.

futurestepmomnowstepgf's picture

even if the attorney suggested it, I think my bf would of refused. We have had a lengthy discussion on while our emotions want one thing, the reality of acting on those and all of the facts of everything, it really is not an option. But I agree, I am glad his attorney did not tell him that because he probably would of been tempted.

That is a good attorney! I would LOVE if his attorney would write something like that because that is a worry my bf does have is about what especially his daughter will think of him and also of course the older child because BM will probably spin it that my bf is a POS who didn't want her, etc. 

I think between hearing his chances are well below even 50% and that in like a year he would have to go back to court as we will be moving, just confirmed an agreement is our best chance and what he should do. I do hate these games these lawyers play I just want a straight answer, but they don't give that :x

tog redux's picture

I know, they will never give a straight answer! Even though you know damn well that in their heads, they are thinking, "this guy has NO chance".  It drove me nuts. I'm glad that part of our lives is over.

I think your BF just has to be prepared to talk to his daughter consistently about what happened with Older Girl, whenever necessary and maybe even before she asks.  Just to say - "I want to make sure you understand why your sister doesn't visit anymore ..."  etc.  Don't make the mistake of thinking if she doesn't ask, leave it alone.  It doesn't have to be discussed endlessly, but just so it's not a big secret.

Aunt Agatha's picture

Here's hoping the negotiations go well!  
 

Although "reasonable" and high conflict BMs don't often go together, miracles can happen!  
 

This is such a tragic situation.  You two really deserve a break.  

 

futurestepmomnowstepgf's picture

That is why I booked us a trip to visit the other side of the country for four days to visit my bf's closest friend at the end of January, so whether agreement or trial, this would all be over. It will be a good break and plus gives us a chance to visit somewhere neither of us have been together.

ESMOD's picture

Lawyers are very good at covering themselves.  They can't give outright odds or guarantees because in the end, sometimes it can all come down to a judge on a bad day.. a fact coming up in court that was never discussed etc..   So they hedge and put limits on what they may be able to deliver.

I can see how and why the lawyer pressed him on the older child.  I can see how someone might have expectations that someone who has been acting and believing they are a child's father for over 4 years.. might be inclined to want to continue that role despite what the paternity test indicated.  Yes, I understand it shows BM to be deceitful, but some people in your DH's position might still be inclined to want a relationship.  I can also see the lawyer's angle that your DH might be in a better position for more custody time since the judge in the first hearing already has shown his preference for the girls to be together.. so an offer to continue custody with the older child might mean MORE with the younger child.

BUT.. I do understand that your DH has problems due to past allegations and concerns over future wrangling with BM over her.. and he wants to limit that exposure.. I get that too.  And.. hopefully the lawyer also gets that and can advocate for your DH to the best of his ability.

futurestepmomnowstepgf's picture

After his attorney gave him the percent chances, my bf asked what he thought was best and the attorney went on this whole I can't tell you that, etc. it is what you think is best and what you can live with, etc.

My bf did want a relationship and fought for it for 1.5+ years, but after BM took his rights away, all these allegations happened, BM was bragging about bf not being the child's bio dad, etc. that chapter closed the day she took his rights. Doesn't mean it doesn't upset him or that he likes the decision, because it does upset him a lot and he does not like the decision at all, but at this point it is what had to be done, plus with the chance this could happen all over again, it's not worth it. However, even the attorney said it COULD not that it would help chances and even with her included, it doesn't put his chances over 50%.

I sure hope so! I think his lawyer was pushing him so when asked by someone else why bf doesn't want to include the older child, that he has answers to that. Thanks for the support and insight, I am just waiting and waiting for this to be over.

tog redux's picture

I don't get why anyone thinks he should see the older child. When it's a bonafide stepfather and he divorces, they don't ask him if he wants to include the stepkid in his CO, and stepparents often function as a parent to their skids (as we know), and love those skids very much.   Your DH was her stepfather, essentially.  Just because BM wants to ditch both kids so she can have kid-free time doesn't mean your DH should be compelled to take her.  

futurestepmomnowstepgf's picture

some people think that is because a step father USUALLY knows when they are being one, not find out 3.5 years later after raising the child thinking it was your own.

As an update, the lawyer suggested that to sway BM to agree to the settlement offer, the older child is listed, but states "Primary physical and legal custody to Mother. Visitation with *bf* as the parties can agree."

^That way BM can THINK that bf is swaying towards what she wants and might agree, but really bf has to agree and he isn't going to

 

tog redux's picture

I guess, but still - it makes no sense to me. 

Ugh, I'd avoid that clause in the CO, but if he thinks it will help...  I think it will just stir up more trouble. 

futurestepmomnowstepgf's picture

that unless there is any mention of the older child, she will not agree. This makes it look like maybe there is a discussion and she might agree. Only other change to that I told my bf to tell his lawyer is I think the word primary should be changed to sole as my bf has no rights to her.

I told my bf I worry that then BM will try harder for him to take her. Bf said once everything is signed by her and she agrees then he will be an asshole about it and say how he does not agree and will not be taking her. I think this could backfire, but as it states they have to agree and he doesn't agree, I can see what he is getting at

bananaseedo's picture

I completely and fully disagree with the lawyer on including her at ALL in this.  Let it go to trial if it must but I would not once address ANYTHIHNG pertaining to BM'S CHILD in HIS/HIS CHILD's custody agreement.

I don't care how pushy she is....he can send a cease letter, and advise her lawyer older child is not a factor in this agreement.  You and your DH are signing up for years of torment and misery to appease this psychotic bitc*....tell your attorney you do NOT negotiate with terrorists...especially on a kid that isn't his and he has zero rights to.  Leave her OFF.  Tell him (lawyer) NOT up for discussion of inclusion...no matter what.  BIG mistake.

futurestepmomnowstepgf's picture

TRUST ME. I do not like it one bit. I do however not want to go to trial either. 

I do not want her included at all either. However, the clause says "as the parties can agree" and bf's plan is after she signs it and it is finalized to basically be like we aren't going to agree and I won't be taking her. That way it is done, but nothing can be done about it because he has zero rights to her, etc.

I just asked bf if we could instead totally leave her off and see if BM will agree first then if it comes to it add this stipulation. Waiting on a response. I also said how I am worried having that in there then she will never stop asking/pushing for him to take the child. Still waiting on a response.

 

bananaseedo's picture

HOnestly? I would make this my hill to die on with the new attorney and your dh IF he already agrees he's not going to see her.  There is absolutely NO REASON whatsoever to include bm's child in his agreement.  What is your attorney smoking?  Wow.  If it's IN there she will continue to use it as a reason to abuse him, manipulate him and ask him and 'bring it up' at EVERY turn for the next 18 years.   One day he may want to show HIS kid how his sis is not even in the original visitation order.

You dont' include NON children in a custody agreement...no matter HOW/WHAT bm wants.  That is something even a mediator can help her understand, or her lawyer, or yours...

When you say you are worried, you should be, because from experience in these groups, that will happen.  In the end it's his decision and you aren't married...but you bet your arse if I was married I would push back HARD on that attorney. It would be MY life at stake also.  HELL no. 

futurestepmomnowstepgf's picture

my bf said he honestly thinks it is a good idea and will make her agree. I don't think she should be included either and I don't see how legally she can be at all anyway since he has no rights to her. Before BM said she does not want the older child included in any agreements or paperwork, but as she has been pushing for him to take her, I could see her not pushing about taking her out of it.

Nope we are not married, but as long as he never agrees to play BM's game, then I will compromise. We just made an agreement and he promised me that 1. when BM tries to push for him to take the older child, he will shut it down, and be mean if he has to. I will not listen to this for the next 13 years, 2. that because that is in the agreement, that it does not change anything that we have discussed and already agreed about in the situation, 3. To change the word primary in the wording to sole because since his rights were taken BM has sole everything and I don't want to risk anything because it does not explicitly say sole. 

Bf agreed and promised me on that. I honestly 100% believe that, something this major when he knows how uncomfortable it makes me and I don't like it, but I am compromising and trusting him on it, that if he goes back on it we are over. So I guess we shall see what BM responds to the agreement

BethAnne's picture

I am not sure the clause in the paperwork is necessary. As it stands BM and your BF can agree visitation of the older girl if they want to without it being stated on the paperwork, just as BM can have anyone else watch this child if she wants...I wonder if there is a way for the lawyer to convey that sentiment informally to BM and her lawyer without including it in the official paper work? 

SteppedOut's picture

I agree that bm daughter should be left out. Seriously, if for nonother reason than this girl has been through enough already losing the person she thought was her father. Do you really think bm will never show her (and your boyfriend's daughter) that she was included in the custody agreement but "daddy didn't want you". Seriously.