Bruises and a HCBM
So for all of you who have been reading at least my last couple blogs know that we are so close to my bf and BM making an agreement and their divorce being done. That being said, my bf is really trying not to stir the pot with BM until everything is drawn up and signed because BM is very vindictive and would definitely say let's go to court then just to spite my bf.
So on Friday, bf picked up his daughter from BM's house, a couple hours early actually because she had a doctor’s appointment that conflicted with the time of the exchange. So shortly after I got off work, my bf, his daughter and I went grocery shopping. While in the store, in the awful florescent lighting, my bf noticed his daughter had two bruises on her face, one on each cheek. One was yellowing and the other was still black, but definitely healing, so the bruises are not new, are at least a couple days old. So my bf asked his daughter what happened to her face and she said *BM's older child's name*, bf asked her again 3 times and each time she said that BM's older child hurt her face. So bf was upset, especially since about a year ago when the older child was still in our lives, she was continually trying to hurt the younger one. Biting, hitting, pinching, etc. we ended up implementing time outs every time, not leaving them alone, etc. and it became super rare if the older child would do those things since we worked so hard to end it.
Bf asked me what should we do? I said I would message BM about it. BM is so trigger happy about calling CPS on my bf, I didn't want him to drop off his daughter, then next thing you know CPS is called on my bf making false allegations again. So he messaged BM and just said what happened to *his daughter*'s face. BM sent several messages, like what are you talking about, you've had her for a few hours and now you're saying something, I didn't do anything, why are you starting something when we are so close to this being done, xyz, popping off. So bf just was like I never said you did anything, but she has two bruises on her face and I did not see them until we were at the store in different lighting. BM says now I want to see. So bf takes pictures and sends them to her. BM says well I know *older child* slapped *his daughter* really hard in the tub the other day. I have been having problems with *older child* hitting, biting, etc. *his daughter* but I am handling it. Then something about I can't really blame her she has all this pent up aggression, etc. etc. So bf just calmly says back, thank you for the information, just wanted to know what happened. She sent a bunch of messages, big surprise
The hard part about this is 1. we know BM would of called CPS on bf if his daughter came from his place with bruises on her face, 2. we really don't want to stir the pot when things are so close to being done, 3. it really upsets us that bf's daughter is getting hurt by her older sister and it sounds like BM is trying to blame bf for her daughter's actions and justifying her acting out in the way she is, plus with all the other added things it is obvious she is letting the older child do whatever she wants and bf's daughter is getting shafted all the time.
Yes I know this is BM's house and we can't control what is going on in her home, etc. and siblings fight, but a 5 year old continually hurting a 3 year old, does not sit well with us. At the very least, it is documented in the co-parenting app, the bruises on her face and BM saying what is going on there
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I hope you took pictures
I would call CPS, but that is just me
This is a tough situation.
This is a tough situation. both the girls are young.. the older one is only 4.. and kids will occasionally hurt each other.. or simply hurt themselves..trip and fall etc.. In most cases.. that is really not needing a call to CPS.
I mean.. kids go to daycare and come home with minor bruises all the time.. I don't think this normally results in calls to CPS.
I don't think it's right to do it in a retaliatory way either.. she would .. so he should.
I would really hate to see these kinds of situations get called into CPS.. it's an overloaded system and there are kids undergoing real ABUSE... of many forms.. and I would hate to think that a child in serious danger would not be helped because a caseworker was basically wasting time over some sibling roughhousing (even if it is somewhat oneway).
Your BF needs to keeps track of this.. check her when she comes over and if it appears constant.. perhaps that is something he may need to document with pictures and texts of explanation. maybe that would sway a judge to give him more time?
also.. i know it's easy to
also.. i know it's easy to end up with bruises.. I have busted BOTH my knees in separate incidents in the last two weeks.. I think I actually have a bone chip on one knee cap.. I tripped over an airconditioner left in the way (by someone else).. while carrying a load of sheets in my arms in the first case.. and was sitting in a chair on a boat when we hit an 8 foot see yesterday morning and got flipped out.. I am not having great luck.. haha.
kids bruising knees is normal
Bruises on face is not.
Kids fall and run into things
Kids fall and run into things. Get hit by balls or swings or snowballs. The dog runs into them and knocks them down. Fall off bikes and scooters. And on and on.
I did hit my head when I got
I did hit my head when I got flipped over too.. .. and it is not uncommon to have bruises on all parts of your body.. we lived in a home with lots of tile when I was a toddler. My mom swore that if it were not me being born in the 60's that someone would have sworn I was an abused child.. I was forever running and falling and trippin. i remember vividly running in the house after watching a movie.. tripping over the edge of our oriental rug and basically rug burning my chin till it split open.. I still have the scar. I also had a younger brother and have a few permanent scars from him.. he threw a rock at me when I was 11 and I still have a scar in my eyebrow from that.. he was 9 at the time. I am sure we had various bruises.. both of us. We weren't stepkids.. we weren't even particularly bad kids... stuff happens.. kids get hurt. it is different than outright abuse.
Exactly. When my nephew was 2
Exactly. When my nephew was 2 he was running down a sidewalk, fell and had a big goose egg on his forehead. Bruises everywhere are normal.
I feel like things are getting misunderstood between a
few of you right now.
Tog is saying that yes children get brusies and scrapes all the time it is part of being a kid. She is not saying that the brusies on bf's daughter's face happened that way, especially when both the child and BM said the older child did it. What she is saying is a one off occurence, isn't going to mean anything to the court or CPS because kids get scraped up all the time. There will have to be a pattern and proof of it being a pattern.
Then ESMOD is also saying kids get hurt all the time, but there is a difference between that and abuse where this sounds like the older child might be abusing the younger child.
STaround you are also right that on the face is worrisome and not okay.
I scraped my knees almost everyday at 6 on the play ground. I played soccer my whole life and after a few ER visits they questioned me and my parents about abuse because it was so common. For anything to be done if something does need to be done, we need multiple times, etc. for anything to be taken seriously or we will just stir the pot and get no where
The facial bruises aren't
The facial bruises aren't worrisome, the source of them is.
Well yes that is what I mean
the source, both the child and BM confirmed it was from the older child
I'm not saying that it isn't
I'm not saying that it isn't an issue when one sibling is roughing up the other sibling. I'm saying that generally it wouldn't be worthy of a call to CPS.. (even though you know that the HCBM would.. doesn't make it the right thing to do).
What is needed is that there needs to be a stepping up of parenting by BM.. she needs to be supervising her two children.
Daddy needs to be vigilant as well. He needs to make a point of checking his daughter when he gets her for visitation.. and documenting the times she shows up worse for wear. He should bring up in court that his EX is not doing a great job of keeping the younger child safe from the older kid.
Some kids are worse than others.. sometimes I think perhaps daycare can expose kids to more aggressive behavior too. I know my OSD's son is hyper aggressive.To him, everything is a weapon.. everything should be destroyed or thrown around.. he is a little over 3.. but based on his behavior now.. and his parent's slack attitude.. I don't see him getting better.. just bigger.
Yes exactly
I understood where you were coming from.
Yes, BM does, but BM the whole time she has been a parent has never done that. Which is why a year ago they ran away, out of her house and down the sidewalk at an apartment complex without BM seeing or stopping them, etc. Unfortunately we cannot make BM be a better parent.
He definitely is going to be hyper vigilant about it especially how BM was trying to brush it off. The problem is we are 90% not going to court, so it would either be a CPS call or a future court date or something.
I agree with that too, except they are no longer in day care of any kind and have not been for months since BM started being primary her mother watches them when she works as a part time nanny.
That is frustrating about the 3 year old, the older child was getting like that too and some behaviors I agree she picked up from day care, but bf did not tolerate that behavior and it started getting better, until BM took over primary care in July and we saw them hardly. I can only imagine how bad her behavior is when with BM all the time and no one actually being a parent with structure to her.
We were just looking at
We were just looking at childhood pictures the other day, and were noticing that my older sister (a daredevil) always had bruises on her face, I rarely had visible bruises, and my younger sister (a true klutz) had bruises and bandaids on her legs in every summertime picture. My skids rarely bruise, even after a hard fall; kids in my family - very light complected - bruise with the slightest touch. I don't think you can tell a whole lot from an isolated bruise, but it's good to keep an eye on it.
She is very light skinned
and she can bruise easily, but not always.
Again, we weren't worried until after several times of asking she kept saying the older sister did it each time and all my bf asked is what happened to your face, didn't imply anything, she said it on her own
That is kind of how I was feeling too
The older child is now 5, her birthday was last month. She is still young though, yes. Siblings will rough house, definitely. However, I have seen the child do this before always one way, she wanted a toy that the younger sister had so she would hit, bite, whatever, sounds like from BM it is one sided there too. I think it is going to be a wait and see game.
I was thinking if it becomes a pattern, then something should be done. Each time she comes with bruises that are questionable, like this time it was both sides of her face, then he should text BM with pictures and see what she says about it. The other reason I wanted him to ask BM was because it would not surprise me if she tried to turn it on my bf and say that it happened on his time when it did not.
My concern would be supervision
Why is BM letting them bath together if the older one has hit the younger HARD enough to leave a bruise on two separate occasions. She either isn't on the room when the bathe or just isn't paying attention. And for all the posters saying kids get bruises in the course of life consider this--how hard would a 5 yr old have to slug a 3 yr old so that it left a bruise? This isn't normal play. And while it may not be reportable u should monitor carefully and vigilantly because it is not normal no matter what other posters say.
She's a lousy parent. Our
She's a lousy parent. Our point is not that it's okay for the sister to hit her sibling: a previous poster said that any bruises on a child's face were suspicious, which others disagreed with - kids can get bruises on their faces in the normal course of play.
No one is saying it's okay for the sister to hit her and leave bruises on her face.
Definitely is an issue
I would say both are probably happening. Everyone on here was really just saying that bruises do happen many different ways to children and for CPS and the court to take it more seriously, will need proof and a pattern for anything to be done about it.
^^^^^
OP, I agree with everything in your second paragraph. Your bf should be concerned and watchful, but not overreact. Looking for a pattern is indeed the key. He should check his daughter thoroughly each time he gets her, take pictures of all injuries, and text BM to ask what happened. The fact that BM likes to run her mouth via text could be valuable info in the future. Document, document, document.
Don't call CPS, it will only
Don't call CPS, it will only stir up trouble and they won't do anything. Just document and take pictures. Patterns are what court and CPS care about, not single events. Kids get bruised (as you guys know).
That's how I felt
and we weren't considering calling CPS on a one time event either. We just wanted photo documented proof sent to BM and her response recorded so if it becomes a pattern, then we have it all there in the co-parenting app and go from there.
My biggest worry was to not say something to BM then her call CPS yesterday after bf dropped the child off. Which they would then drop it because they would see based off the coloring it is a few days old and we haven't seen her in about two weeks. But still don't want to go through that any way.
Yes, that was smart to call
Yes, that was smart to call BM.
Yes.. and her BF needs to
Yes.. and her BF needs to start taking a good look at his daughter at pickup... and point out these things to BM right then and there.
I will say in his defense
at his place, I could not see the bruising either it wasn't until we got into different lighting. But now that we know to look for it, we will absolutely be doing so and each time it is something questionable will contact BM. Probably not in person though because there is no proof. At least in the app, there is pictures and her words recorded, but it would be as soon as possible looking her over when getting home.
I am not talking about knee bruises or anything like that either, but like bruises on the face or if bite marks (child before did leave a bite mark), anything abnormal
Unless you treat your kids
Unless you treat your kids like they are antique, porcelain dolls, they will get bruises. And yes, some of those bruises will be on their faces and/or necks.
Some kids are down right mean to other kids. Some kids are constantly rough housing. Some kids are just plain clumsy and awkward. It's silly to encourage the OP to start a CPS war over sibling issues between preschoolers.
When she is getting bruising
on her face from two different instances of the sibling purposefully trying to hurt the other sibling, I don't think it is silly at all. It is not silly boys wrestling or playing roughly with toys. Plus this is not the first time. If BM cannot stop it from happening and it becomes a pattern, we definitely will do something about it.
Something should be done, but
Something should be done, but that something shouldn't be a call to CPS.. UNLESS you truly feel that the child is in danger. In that case you act ASAP. Would youbhave called CPS when you thought both girls were your BF's children?
Do you know if anyone has explained to the child what is going on? Has anyone considered putting her in therapy? Her new normal has to be having an impact on her. She may be directing her anger, hurt,confusing...towards her sister.
That isn't an excuse for her actions but MAY be a reason forvwhat is goin on now.
I really feel bad for your BF AND both girls.
I feel as though BM
is going to be able to stop it from happening, but will excuse the behavior. I don't think the younger child deserves for her best interests to be put aside because of BM's mistakes and lack of parenting. If it keeps happening, then we will be doing something about it.
We have known she wasn't his child for a long time. When my bf first filed she put in the answer back that the child wasn't his, he did his own dna test and found out and treated her the same until BM took his rights away 1.5 years ago when she asked for the genetic testing to be done. So we have been in this position before knowing she wasn't and she was acting out and hurting her sister then. Only difference was they were both at bf's 70% of the time and we put an end to it, by issuing time out, explaining to her that her behavior is not okay, etc. plus keeping an eye on them together and even separating them sometimes and the behavior died down because we were on top of it.
Now BM has her 100% all the time and my we already know that BM does not supervise them as she should.
We do not know, but frankly it is none of our business. She has been in therapy since July or June with BM before she took his rights away. The child has been exhibiting this behavior since October 2018 and the rights weren't taken away till October 2019. So while sure it probably contributes, but when this has happened before, etc. it can't be used as the scape goat by BM why she's acting this way.
Is the older child in
Is the older child in counseling already due to the recent upheaval in her young life? If not, maybe BF could suggest that it would be helpful to help her sort out her thoughts and feelings about what she may view as abandonment (I'm not saying your BF abandoned her - just that she may feel that way). She no longer gets to see "dad" but the younger child does. I think it would be natural that she would feel resentful of her younger sister. She needs to understand what she is feeling and that it is unacceptable to take those feelings out on her sister.
You could argue that
if this wasn't an issue a year ago before BM took his rights away. A year ago, the child was doing this to her younger sister and bf and I were able to lessen it from happening with being hands on and keeping our eye on them at all times.
The child has been in counseling for at least 6 months before the rights were taken away too. This is where the child made a false allegation against my bf and the counselor said the child shows signs of sexual abuse. These are two major reasons we had to make the decision to end the relationship with the child once BM took my bf's rights away.
I also do not think bf should be making any suggestions or comments about the older child, as this will definitely stir the pot and make this a never ending issue. Not trying to be mean, but realistic
My biggest fear is that
My biggest fear is that oldest child really is going to hurt youngest child...and not by accident or sibling rough housing.
She's already shown signs of being aggressive toward younger child before...but she now is lost, confused, hurt and obviously acting out. She's barely five. She does understand all the DNA stuff is or even what creating means. Yes, losing her 'Dadfy' is technically all her BM's own doings and fault. But, she's five, it's all above and beyond her little immature head.
I believe she's blaming the youngest child and also punishing younger child. IMO, BM needs to get her oldest child immediately in with a psychologist. Of course your So has no say in this kid any more.... But he sure as he'll can make very clear to BM that the violence against his daughter needs to stop and stop now. And if not, he'll have no choice buy to take steps himself through the legal process to assure his daughter safety and wellbeing.
OP said she was doing this
OP said she was doing this before her SO stopped seeing her. And yes, she's in therapy.
Yep
Biting was more of the issue than the hitting a year ago. I do agree that it probably does impact things a little bit, but this behavior is not new, just is starting up again and in my opinion more aggressive when she is now leaving bruises. Before, she left a bite mark once when at my bf's and once came with a bite mark from BM's house. Now this is actually the second time, coming with bruises. The first time we did not say anything to BM or make much of it because kids do get bruises. However, these bruises are from two separate occasions and on her face so we asked her about it.
I too am worried the child will hurt the younger child honestly. Which is why when the rights were taken, I had to tell my bf that I was sorry, but I do not support if he wanted to try and still have a relationship with her. Between all I have mentioned here she has also told my bf she would cut him up like chicken, talks about blood and death a lot, etc. This was right before BM took the children away in July so we did not have a chance to take her to counseling ourselves like we were planning on. I have nicely, but firmly told my bf that I honestly do worry something more is going on with the child and I do worry for his daughter and our future children. We don't know anything about bio dad and maybe him or BM have passed something down regarding her mental health. Who knows, but to me it was not normal behavior. Then when bf took the children out of daycare because he got every other week in October, the director of the day care asked if the child's teachers ever contacted him because the child was demonstrating behavior that was worrisome, talking about blood and death, plus drawing it too. Guess what they NEVER told him, he just found out after his rights were taken away. So yes I agree, it worries me too, but don't want to sit here sounding like I am calling a 5 year old a dangerous person or something.
It might also be the older
It might also be the older child is not good at figuring what to do with her frustrartions.
For example.. younger sister "innocently" takes or has a toy older girl wants.. so older girl strikes out at younger in frustration that the toy was taken or won't be given to her. NO.. it's NOT the right response.. but for many kids this is a normal response when they are frustrated.. Many.. Many kids have issues with biting, hitting etc.. in daycare and with siblings and it is the parent's job to stop them from acting out and teaching them how to deal with frustrations.
I mean.. kids will lash out at their parents.. I have seen many a kid slap out at mommy or daddy when they are being brats. Of course it's not acceptable behavior.. but it is a normal thing for parents to deal with and correct it. Shoot, I think there was a case I read about recently where a kid detached a retina in mom's eye..accidentally.
BTW.. I seem to recall that pinching was a great way to get someone to let go of something.. (my brother and I both employed this little tactic.. and probably at older than 5 yo).
I am not saying it's acceptable for siblings to hit each other or hurt each other.. but it is usually not something that requires CPS intervention.. and in almost all cases doesn't result in permanent disfiguring or disability.
There may also be some coaching that her BF can do with his daughter on what to do when sissy hurts her. (go get mommy) etc..
I would agree if all this has not been done before
and I have witnessed it many times. It is not the younger sibling takes a toy from the sister, it is younger sister is playing with a toy, she tries to take it out of her hand and the younger sister says no and the older sister hits or bites her. I have also seen that someone is interacting with younger child for not even a long period of time, as little as 60 seconds and the child hits or bites her to get the attention on her and off her sister.
I agree that it happens, but a year ago went through this, she was taught it was not acceptable behavior and then she was not leaving bruises on the sister. Now, it is happening again and multiple times leaving bruising on the sister, BM needs to be a parent and stop it, we shall see at next pick up if she has stopped it or not.
I do know though if it doesn't stop we aren't going to just stand by and let the older child beat up the younger one at BM's.
I absolutely don't think it's
I absolutely don't think it's acceptable.. my point is that it is not abnormal for kids to go through these types of issues.
It does sound like the older girl really does have problems constraining her impulses... It sounds like the more stressed her life is.. the less her ability to "moderate" her behavior becomes.
I'm not sure how long it was between visits.. but if they are weekly visits and the bruising was so faint that it was almost gone within a few days.. it seems likely that they aren't super hard/vicious injuries.. again.. not right.. but the level of danger to the 3yo would be somewhat less from a glancing or light pinch vs a serious bruising that might take weeks to dissapear.
If the mother can't keep this from happening.. your BF may be forced to go back to court over this to try to get custody.. but he will probably need more than a few minor incidents for a Judge to really feel that a change is necessary.
It's almost
two weeks between when we see her right now unless BM agrees to the 50/50. It is every other weekend, so who knows when it happened, we last saw her on 12/1 and my bf picked her up on 12/13. We are just going to have to wait and see how the next couple exchanges go. Again, not planning on doing anything yet, just keeping an eye out and seeing how it goes, documenting and asking BM if it happens again, especially in the near future.
I would definitely be
I would definitely be checking upon pickup more carefully.. if anything more than a slight bruising is present.. I would take a picture.. and document asking BM about it.
It's one of the tough things I think parents have to do when they separate is let their children go to a place where they may not have the control they do in their own home.
My suggestion is to just keep
My suggestion is to just keep documenting. I would also suggest a therapist (especially if you can find one that does play therapy since she is so young).
My brother, sister and I beat the crap out of eachother growing up. It wasn't a big deal and the 80's were a different time. HOWEVER- this isn't "normal" sibiling stuff. This other girl has had her life turned upside down by BM. I know the court wants to keep the sisters together but at the end of the day, that might not be the right call if she is going to be hurt by her sister.
That is definitely our plan
to keep documenting everything
Siblings do beat each other up, but a 5 year old beating up a 3 year old, is definitely not normal. She has had her life turned upside down and I would say, yeah BM you're right if all this and other things did not happen before she took my bf's rights away. I personally don't think keeping them together is in the best interests of the younger child and I am not just saying that to get more custody of bf's child, but my honest opinion.
I am glad you turned out OK
But beating the crap out of siblings is not normal and to me is terrible parenting.