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child support feels like robbery

Focusonthepos's picture

Hey everyone. Before I get into this I wanted to say that I fully support my DH supporting his kids in a REASONABLE manner. 

Backstory: BM makes around 24,000-maybe 30,000 a year. DH makes 80k-over 100k at his job when you factor in overtime. They were married for 8.5 years and has the kids (10+12) Sunday 12-9, Thursday  5-9 and every other Saturday into the Sunday beginning 12PM Sat.

 

He currently pays $690 in alimony and $1100 a month in CS. In order to cut down on alimony, he also pays her cell phone bill and car insurance and is court ordered to also pay her medical insurance. DH went for all these "extras" thinking it would keep his alimony down and I guess it does because he could have to pay much more. To make it worse they live with her parents rent free in a beautiful 5 bedroom home, so does she pay for anything of her own?? And no the court doesn't care that she lives rent free.

We had them 27 extra days this summer (9 days at a time, 3 separate times) and it is astounding to me how little we actually spend on the kids during that time. $1100 a month is ridiculous!!! And the fact that when they are here for nearly an extra month he doesn't get a "refund!"  Of course our mortgage payment is higher too because we have to have a 3 bedroom home. 

I know child support will never really be fair but i really think he's getting abused by both his ex and the system. This is nothing but a rant. 

Comments

Harry's picture

So it looks like BM has the kids 100% of the time , that is why CS is so high, then you don't have a weekend to yourself for a adult time.  Weekend get a way.  He should go back to court to fix this schedule and get CS lowered 

Rumplestiltskin's picture

I agree. This schedule sucks and CS is often based on overnights. My SO's BM2 does that, too. Has him keep the kid until bedtime, but she gets credit for the "overnight" amd therefore gets paid for it. 

CastleJJ's picture

Single day visits only help BM... because they aren't overnights so they don't count in your favor toward the CS amount, meaning that BM still gets CS for those days that you provide care. So you are only counting 2 overnights per month/12 overnights per year toward the CS calculation, giving BM max CS. Your schedule sounds like a real pain in the butt. These kids are definitely old enough to have more overnight contact with their Dad. Who came up with this arrangement - BM and DH in mediation or a judge?

Does DH have to pay lifetime alimony, or just for a set number of years? You guys need a better schedule - one that is 50/50. A lot of people do one weeknight overnight like Wednesdays from after school until school starts the next morning and then every other weekend from Friday evening to Sunday evening. I also know a lot of people do week on/week off in the summer. If they don't want week on/week off, they can do two weeks on/two weeks off or split the summer in half and do half/half. How long has it been since the visitation arrangement was updated? 

lieutenant_dad's picture

Based on that scheduled, he's paying out the max because, on paper, he only has them 26 nights a year. Is there any way he can get them for more overnights to better reflect what he's actually doing, like those Sundays and Thursdays?

CS is a racket. DH paid $1000/mo plus medical and extras (because BM would never pay) for the boys. BM's standard of living was the same when he was broke and paying $400/mo (which was only the CS on paper; he paid more in extras) as it was when he was paying $1000. It's an obscene amount of money to give to someone else for no accountability with how it's spent. I'd actually be perfectly fine if DH had to pay more if it could be accounted for in some way. The stipulation-free, tax-free money, though, is crazy. I have to keep more proof that I spent my HSA on Tylenol than BM has to show to prove she spent CS on the kids, and that is just absurd to me.

CastleJJ's picture

I've always said that CS needs to be taxed or the CS recipient should have to show it as income on taxes and the payor should have it taken off of their adjusted gross income. There needs to be some benefit for the payors - like a child tax credit, even if they can't claim their kids as dependents. Maybe like a tax write-off. 

My DH pays $750 per month in court ordered CS for SS9,  which I know it could be much worse. DH makes average money, not great but not terrible, but after CS, taxes, and health insurance, he only brings home about $900 biweekly and that includes 10-20 hours of overtime per week. This leaves me picking up the slack on household expenses. DH is incredibly hard working and is always looking for ways to grow and advance, but the necessary deductions take a huge chunk of his income. BM is making close to double what DH makes and lives with her GF who makes hefty six figures. They recently bought a house, both of them drive brand new luxury cars, and they travel a lot. BM has admitted to DH that she uses her CS to buy herself stuff and pay her student loans and "get ahead", yet, BM loves to tell DH that he is such a deadbeat and a loser because we have to live in an apartment because we cannot yet afford a house and we drive older cars. DH and I have finally saved a decent chunk for a nice down-payment on a house and would like to buy one next year. BM has told DH in the past that she isn't comfortable with SS being with us often because we cannot provide the same standard of living that SS is used to in BM's home... well DUH, wonder why that is?! We have a nice two bedroom apartment in a nice, safe area. SS has his own room with a nice bedroom set and plenty of toys and clothes, but it doesn't nearly equate to the 3,000 square foot 5-bed, 4-bath monstrosity that BM has. 

While I totally believe in supporting your children, I think the CS system is broken and needs a major revamp. I know this will never happen because too many agencies are getting a nice kick-back, but the current system allows CS recipients to alienate and abuse the payors by weaponizing the children and the payors can rarely support themselves and are essentially imprisoned by the CS system. 

Rumplestiltskin's picture

It's sad, really. I had a divorce with 50/50 custody, similar incomes, and no CS. SO and his brother pay out the a$$ in CS, though, and it seems to control their lives. SO pays CS on a kid he has had 100% for 5 years, and just spent $12k in legal bills fighting it, only to lose.

His brother recently lost his job and his main concern is how will he pay his CS, not how will he keep his lights on and food in the fridge. He is terrified of his ex-wife, and his current wife is ready to leave him, as he was paying like $2k per month in court-ordered CS plus paying for BM-requested extras just to keep her happy. But, of course, she never seems to be happy! 

ESMOD's picture

The CS is "fair" due to so few actual overnights.. and it is meant to cover more than "out of pocket" spending.. it covers things like housing... transportation..etc.. I'm sure that she is not likely getting rich on that 1100 with two kids pretty much full time.  You don't have them but for a couple of full days during the month.. so I'm sure her costs are a lot more than you imagine you are spending.

If the schedule is in fact, many more days overnight with dad than is in the order.. he could try to go back but with the income disparity.. I'm not sure how much he would gain when you factor in lawyer costs.

I mean.. for my DH and myself.. I easily spend 100-150 per week  for groceries alone.. so of that money easily half of it for groceries.. factor in other things like clothing, bedding, household items.. could add more.. then cost to drive them around... pay for incidentals.. meals at McD's.. and you are easilly going to spend a few hundred more.. at least.. so in the end.. for 2 kids 1100 can go pretty quickly... and I didn't even mention clothing and other stuff she may buy for them.  For 2 kids, that's not astronomical.. and on paper she has them almost 100% of the overnights save for 26 nights a year of 365.. add in that income disparity.. and he probably is lucky it isn't more.

ESMOD's picture

But... yes.. of course watching money go out of your home that you can't control the spending of is tough.. your DH has a double whammy of CS and alimony.. so it adds up to a lot.  If the kids were in your home FT.. there would be a whole set of other issues.. but he could decide to budget differently.. he can't control how BM spends.  and I get that is frustrating.

lieutenant_dad's picture

I understand this to a point. I think where CS goes off the rails is when it assumes that an NCP is a deadbeat who isn't involved with their kids or doesn't treat their kids like a member of the household.

NCPs still have to have enough bedrooms for their kids. Still have to pay more in food and utilities when the kids are over. Still have to spend gas to go to kid activities, appointments, school events, etc (even when they don't have the kid). Still have to supply toiletries, clothes, shoes, supplies, etc (if the kid doesn't bring that stuff back and forth). Still have to have toys and entertainment. And kids outgrow all of that stuff just as fast at the NCPs as the CPs.

I'll grant that it's not the same as a CP, but an involved and active NCP is paying to maintain their kid's standard of living in BOTH homes, not just the CPs. I think judges who allow COs like what OP's DH has are just as unjust as those who sign off on orders allowing NCPs to not pay CS (or who don't enforce consequences when they don't pay their COed CS). The courts need to focus less on giving kids the same standard of living pre-divorce because what ends up happening is kids living that same standard 70-80% of the time and living in poverty or not having proper visitation or having miserable experiences the other 20-30% of the time because the NCP is sucked dry financially and can't provide any sort of life even close to what they had before. That is so easy to weaponize, and courts would be better served finding out what a NEW standard of living should look like and seeing how that is financially viable via CS.

Also, while CPs aren't getting rich (typically) of CS, they are living comfortably. Their standard of living may decrease, but should generally be stabilized. For NCPs, it's a crapshoot. Losing $14,000/yr when you make $70,000 hurts but is survivable. Losing $10,000 a year at $50,000, though, puts you near poverty with multiple kids. And working more isn't a solution, either, because that just increases the CS obligation. That extra just makes the CP more stable without any additional work, while the NCP is more tired with more stability in total but less than what they worked for.

This isn't directed entirely at you, ESMOD. I'm just making the counterpoint to this. CS was meant to keep single mothers out of poverty (and off government assistance) but never adjusted for changes in societal roles or even inflation outpacing wages. I'm not saying NCPs shouldn't pay CS, but there needs to be more consideration about what taking 20% out of an active NCPs paycheck does to them AND their kids.

ESMOD's picture

I absolutely get that... and yes.. NCP do also need to maintain a lot of the same resources.. but they sometimes can do it to a lesser extent.. like the kids may share a room at the NCP house (circumstances being conducive)... there are likely fewer demands for transport and other things too.. 

I do sometimes think that they system is somehow inherently assuming that the NCP "left the family" too.. and sometimes there is more of an attempt to make the kids and BM (most often it is a bm).. not take any dip in standard of living.. but that doesn't hold true for the NCP and any family they may have later.

FinallySkidFree's picture

CS needs serious reform. It is not right that DH has paid over 250k in CS to BM and she has never spent a penny of that money on the skids. Every dime has gone to 3 vacations per year with her friends (not even vacation with the Skids), designer bags and clothes, drinking and eating out various times a week. Those Skids went thru their entire time of school without a computer or internet at their house, they had to do HW at the library when they needed internet and access to a computer. Or they would wait to be at our house to do any projects. They ended up having to buy and pay for their own cellphones because BM refused to buy them and insisted DH provide cellphones, which he obviously refused citing that she should use the CS to provide such things. Not once in 21 years did DH ever claim his kids on his taxes, BM refused to allow it. Thankfully, CS ends this week. We have rid ourselves of that burden and can say good riddance to that bum bit$ch. Can't wait to see how many lavish vacations she will take now that the money train has ended.

Rumplestiltskin's picture

Pathetic. One of SO's BMs is like that. Collects on one kid who she hasn't kept in years and on another that mostly just sleeps there on her nights. She has purses worth 3 of my mortgage payments and only drives Lexuses and Mercedes. There really ahould be some accounting for CS. My SO also pays for everything out of his pocket and also serves as BM's after-school daycare provider, and she won't commit to picking the kid up a minute before she has to. Totally uninterested in her kids except as a paycheck and occasional social media photo prop. 

thinkthrice's picture

Between local CSEUs getting fed kickbacks for highest amount ordered/collected,  the divorce attorneys that make a killing win or lose, the various so called "women's" lobbying groups, (N.O.W. etc) and the archaic, "false chivalry" court system, they have a good thing going.  No incentive to change it.

CLove's picture

And it seems there is an underground group of women who have conspired together to teach each other different ways to work the system and milk the system for as much as possible.

I used to laugh when my friends would cook up these lists of desirable traits for a mate. One of the top items was "no children from previous relationship. No divorced men/women"

This is when I was just out of college in my 20's.

Now I am looking at things from a 50-year old childless perspective.

If I were a divorced/unmarried baby-momma, this system would really work well for me!

DH pays 347and makes 50-60k annually.

Toxic Troll gets to be HoH, and claim kiddo. Luckily no more Spousal, that went on for 3 years 11 mos and has ended.

Id follow the reccomendations above and seek some counsel during the process. It just needs to be fair.