Updated: We are in the new house and...
Everyone is thrilled...all the kids have the room and space they wanted, wife loves spending money and decorating (LOL joke people,,,but not really) and I have a little office in the distant corner of the house all to myself ( can't tell you how GREAT it is to have a room where there aren't any kids toys or things around lol). For those not familiar, my SD 11 was threatning to go live with BD because when we saw this house and decided to buy it I told her that she would NOT get the bedroom with the bathroom in it, that MY Bio daughter would get it. Reason, she never showed any responsibility toward her current room (cleaning, throwing clothes in hamper, leaving lights, tv, dvd, cable box on all day long, etc) while her sister, who is half her age at 5, did all those things. I felt it a just reward (plus I couldn't imagine how filthy she would keep her own bathroom). Anyway fastforward to a couple of weeks before the move and my wife comes to me and as usual,makes excuses for SD and thinks we should reconsider the room arrangements, to which I said absolutely not. My 5yo knocks on our door and comes in and says to us if it would be ok if her older sister gets the big bedroom (and my first thought was that SD put her up to this,to which she said she didnt)And explains that she is the bigger girl and needs more space and when she leaves for college she will then take the room. I figured if that is what she wanted then why not. Fastforward to this past weekend...we've been in the house now a couple of months and are settling in beautifully. This weekend we had SD...we had the families come over saturday for a nice get together and everyone was having a great time. She excused herself and said she had to go call her BD, went to her bedroom and used her Cell phone. A few minutes later the house phone rang and it was one of her new friends on the block calling for her. I called up to her to pick up but she didn't so I assumed she couldn't hear me...I then proceeded to walk up to her bedroom where the door was wide open and I heard the following..."Yeah Daddy I did exactly what you told me to do and it worked...he backed down and gave me the big bedroom. You are right he is scaredy cat!" I cannot tell you the unimaginable thoughts that went through my head at that second but trust me...they were bad lol. I knocked on the door and she turned her head quickly to see me standing in her doorway and covered the phone and said I'm talking to daddy ill get in trouble if he knows youre here listening...to which I said so and so is on the phone for you..she said tell them i'll call them back. I walked downstairs and decided I wasn't going to let this ruin the good time I was having with the family there. I waited til everyone was gone, kids were asleep and I told my wife when we were in our bedroom. She was just appauled...at me!!! Did I hear correctly? Why were you listening in on her conversation? You are looking for any little thing because you hate her...blah blah blah. The truth is, much the same way SD is petrified of her dad, darling wife is still afraid of him too. But here's the thing, contrary to popular belief, IM NOT! Which makes this even harder because the things I suggest to both of them doesn't seem so hard to do, but then again i'm not the one living with their fear...i'm just living with the residue it leaves behind and let me tell you...it fuckin SUCKS! Ive read many posts on here about disengaging and alot of really good ideas about how to handle these types of situations and I'm thankful for all of your postings, and I admit I've even learned a thing or two about myself after some good constructive criticism from posters on my posts. The one thing I know about myself for certain, and I've always known, is that when I became a parent, I would do everything in my power to be the best parent I could be...even being a stepparent. I always wanted my SD to know that while she was not mine I would treat her as if she were. And knowing that she had her DAD and myself in her life meant knowing she did not have to choose, because she had us both and that if she needed anything I was there. The problems started when she couldn't accept being treated as if she were one of mine...which means having chores and responsibilities and doing thing to help out around the house as well as taking care of your responsibilities...homework, assignments, studying for tests. It was expeted that i would give the world, but to expect something in return was unacceptable. Hey maybe it was the way I was raised but you had to EARN what you got in my household. All i know is that at this point disengaging has not worked for me, and that the support I expected from my wife is not there. I knew coming into this relationship what it was going to entail...I just never realized that the lying and manipulation started with my wife...which may explain why her kid is the same way...
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Was your wife's ex abusive,
Was your wife's ex abusive, either physically or emotionally? The comment from SD about "I'll get in trouble if he knows you're here listening" is very worrying to me. Perhaps if you're discussing it with your wife again you could highlight that part of the conversation, and that your concerned for SD, as hopefully it won't put her on the defensive.
LOL!!!! I agree.
LOL!!!! I agree.
AND she'd be cleaning the
AND she'd be cleaning the baseboards!
"God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy" and you can't change crazy!!
You crack me up! You must
You crack me up! You must have had the cleanest baseboards around!
"God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy" and you can't change crazy!!
Complete with fresh paint
Complete with fresh paint and dog hair! ROFL!
LOL! I feel you, DPW.
LOL! I feel you, DPW. We've got HUGE Mr. Leaf Collector here. I'm sweeping and vacuuming three times a week just to keep up with the crap he brings into the house! And this is the boy who LOVES the cold so he's in and out, in and out all day.
Sorry to hijack the thread, fedup. Gotta laugh sometimes.
DPW.... the last time I was
DPW.... the last time I was painting the bedroom my cat snuck in and I didn't realize she was in the room with me until she got spooked, took a leap off the bed and her back foot landed square in the tray of paint and then she REALLY went nuts so I was screaming like a crazy woman to CATCH THE CAT while DH and perfectson dropped to the ground laughing while I was frantically trying to catch the cat and clean up the white paint paw prints ALL THE WAY DOWN my carpeted hallway!!!! Argh! It took FOREVER to get all that paint out of the carpet! LOL!!
Sand, leaves, twigs, burrs,
Sand, leaves, twigs, burrs, ice.... this boy has a very thick coat. I'm tempted to look for buried treasure in there. Now he's got some kind of fungus in his undercoat from sleeping in the snow and my not drying his coat completely when he comes in.
The best is when he goes to the dog park after a rain or a thaw. He's a roller and a wrestler so he gets completely COVERED in mud. Luckily it dries and brushes out.
Sand dunes... lol.
Tempting. But newfs can't
Tempting. But newfs can't be shaved because they need their double coat to protect from cold and sun. Plus, the coat doesn't always grow back. Back to the daily brushing! At least it's a calm, relaxing activity.
Sorry again, fedup, for the diversion.
I'm sorry you're going
I'm sorry you're going through this. It's almost like you just found out you're living with a stranger that you happen to be married to. When you say that SD and DW are afraid of the ex, what do you mean? First and foremost, I would recommend that boundaries need to be set. Boundaries set by your wife regarding the manipulation of SD by her father. Also, have you considered counseling? I think I'd be most concerned about the fact that your wife immediately discounted anything that you were saying in defense of her daughter. It's not like you were standing outside of her room, eavesdropping. You were being courteous by getting her to tell her that she had a phone call. How is any of this your fault?
"There are two things over which you have complete dominion, authority, and control over - your mind and your mouth".
Thanks all...he was
Thanks all...he was emotionally and psychologically abusive to both and my wife has told me on one ocassion he got physical so I know why they are afraid...we've done all we can to get SD the help she needs with therapists and so on but its a work in progress. My wife likes to make him out to be this master manipulator...if you ask me...he's a classic bully and as well all know the bully will bully you until you push back...
Fedup, I'm going to
Fedup, I'm going to disagree with the masses here because to me disengaging means that your SD (and your wife) get to have a cushy life where they get what they want from you all under the guise of their "fear" while not giving you anything in return and you daughter will witness this. UNFAIR to both of you.
My dh used to be afraid of Wingnut and SD is clearly afraid of not pleasing her mother. And everyone, including dh, thought it was a good idea to just let SD lie to her mother and manipulate the situation because it made her comfortable and we should take the high road. All that nonsense. All SD learned is that it is okay to lie and manipulate to get what you want and it furthered her belief that NOONE defies mommy.
Does BD have a history of physical abuse? If not, I'd let him have it. I'd let him now point blank that he does not control what happens in my home. I would also let your wife know that he does not control what happens in your home and that as long as SD LIES to him on the phone in YOUR home, she will be punished for it. Now, I know this sounds mean, but kids will take the path of least resistance if daddy is making it harder for her to be honest than you are making it to be truthful, then she'll be a liar. Personally, she'd be switching room with DD. I think she thinks she has won some kind of control over you because you gave in (even if it was at DD request) and gave her what she wanted. And now she has her father believing that he has some control over you by telling him "she did what he said" and got her way. You can't undo that, but the first time her room wasn't clean, I'd be moving her shit out into the smaller room. I wouldn't consult your wife or SD. I would simply DO IT. This is your home too. You need to decide if your wife and SD's fear of BD is going to allow you to show fear of him through the two of them. They're afraid of her ex but they can walk all over you? Being a nice guy doesn't mean sitting back and letting other people trample all over your entire belief system.
"God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy" and you can't change crazy!!
I completely agree with this
I completely agree with this poster -
I am not a fan of "disengaging" because they wouldn't care, it would only hurt me. By disengaging, yes it may save my sanity, but then after a while they will not care about my opinions or respect me, because I stopped being in their lives basically.
While SD is in school I would start moving the rooms. Maybe this will be the step towards teaching her a lesson and teaching her respect. She NEEDS to respect you, and maybe removing the door of the hinges and taking away her cellphone may be round two.
If this were my story, I would have done that THAT NIGHT, and My DH being the wonderful DH he is, as my HUSBAND would back me up wholeheartedly.
I am SO SORRY you are going through this, But I have every faith in you to do what you feel is right. And IMHO switching rooms is right. A brat is a product of their environment, start taking some of the creature comforts away, and maybe she'll start getting humbled.
Well said!
Well said!
Thanks everyone...I too felt
Thanks everyone...I too felt that disengaging was not the right thing to do from onset, but at that point needed to try it. To me the greater problem lies in the fact that unfortunately for SD, this is how she has been taught to handle this situation known as her BD. My wife has told her, you do what you have to do no matter what to get through when you are dealing with your father. This has led to many a heated "discussion" in my house between us but ultimately it ends with the same "you don't know him and what SD and I went through." I don't have to know him to know he's an asshole...and that being said, I was very clear from day 1...any and all decision made in our house would be made BY US! Not by anyone else. This is where I feel my wife has "betrayed" me. Had it not been for the many discussions we had up front about life choices and decisions about family, I would probably be a little more forgiving, but I saw what this situation was since day one and I knew that while I wanted to be with this woman and start our own family, I was most certainly not going to let this jerk off hurt or rule my wifes and to whatever extent I could, their childs life. While I know disengaging works for alot of people it did not work for me. The fact that I would not tackle an issue directly with the person causing the issue was a problem for me. I felt that it her mind SD would think she was able to call the shots and i'm sorry but i'll be DAMNED if some 11 yo thinks they run this house. Got some news for you honey, like my folks said..it's MY house, it's MY rules, don't like it..make the rules you want to have up on a piece of paper and when you get your own house and your own family THEN you can give them your set of rules! lmao
Your wife is teaching her
Your wife is teaching her daughter a very bad habit. "do what you need to do to get through". My dad taught my brothers and I to "not rock the boat" and to "keep the peace", as a result both of my brothers married control freaks like my mother. My older brother committed suicide 3 years ago. My father thought he was helping us but all he taught us is that setting boundaries was a bad thing and we all spent our entire lives bending over backwards to please everyone, which is an impossible goal. We sacrificed ourselves away to make everyone else happy. this isn't a lesson she should want her daughter to learn. Stay clear of purposely pissing him off. YES. Lie and create havoc with a new person who is good to her to please him. NO.
"God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy" and you can't change crazy!!
I am with you Cruella. When
I am with you Cruella. When SD wants to talk to Wingnut, she does it in the office. No exceptions because she used to go hide in her room and tell her mother LIES, LIES, LIES. They don't really feel the need to speak to each other every day now.
"God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy" and you can't change crazy!!
We had CPS at our house too.
We had CPS at our house too. Wingnut promised SD Chuck E. Cheese if she told the pediatrician that DH slapped her in the face. Since then we have connected the dots for SD. Mommy may take you places, buy you things if you lie and make her happy, but you spend more time here and we are not happy and you are having stuff taken away, so which is better? I also took the phone away from SD once and blasted her mother for encouraging her daughter to lie and let her know (in front of sd) that if I EVER heard her leading this child into lies again on our phone ALL calls would stop. She touted the court order allowing her calls and I told her we can go to the judge and discuss the contents of her calls if she'd like. She had all ready lost major ground in court because of alienation and she knows that if we go back and prove she is still doing it, she will lose custody and, more importantly, her coveted cs check.
"God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy" and you can't change crazy!!
I hear you . There are
I hear you . There are double standards EVERYWHERE. It is documented in our custody case by more than one mental health care professional that Wingnut is emotionally abusing this child and basically setting her up for disaster, but the courts think the kid is still better off with her mother.
"God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy" and you can't change crazy!!
I would move the rooms
I would move the rooms pronto. No ifs, ands, or butts, and if the wife protested, I would move her too lol.
You do NOT have to stand for this type of manipulation in your house.
~*~When you kiss ass, your breath smells like sh*t~*~
Thats ok lol I just finished
Thats ok lol I just finished switching the kids rooms...life should be quite interesting after school today...lmao
I am so PROUD of you! Keep
I am so PROUD of you!
Keep us posted.
"God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy" and you can't change crazy!!
YAY!! yes PLEASE keep us
YAY!! yes PLEASE keep us posted!!
A hidden webcam would be
A hidden webcam would be great.
FedUp - Please take this
FedUp - Please take this with all due respect, because I really mean it this way and am truly "in your corner". I completely agree with everything you have written, so I am coming from that point of view.
Having said that.. PLEASE BE READY!! What you have done is more than a game of "gotcha"!
You are going to have to have real, rational arguments ready for your wife and your SD.
In my opinion, your SD needs to know exactly what you heard her say on the phone and the consquences of her manipulating you. To give her any reason other than the truth - that you just heard that and the fact that she does not respect you, nor keep her room clean - are the reasons for the move.
As far as your wife.... BE READY! You are in for quite the shitstorm. You have done something without her consent that directly affects her daughter. You are punishing her daughter for "listening" to her father. Yes, it was manipulation, but the mom may back her kid up. You are going to be in the doghouse if you are not confidently prepared. And by that I mean - logical as well as EMOTIONAL arguments.
In my opinion, you need to help your wife understand how this will help SD in the future. Because she is not going to get it. And isn't that the goal? Really? To help SD break bad, manipulative, disrespectful behavior and to help her become a better adult. But you have to argue that and it may take several arguments.
Also, don't forget your little 5 year old, who so graciously offered up the big bedroom. That kid just had a huge guilt trip laid on her that she did not ask for. All she is going to understand is that there is conflict and somehow she is "a cause" because she is in the big room. She is going to need your support and love and also an age appropriate explanation of why the rooms were changed back.
If you look vindictive, or petty, or as if you are punishing "dad" through the SD, you are dead in the water to your wife.
Be careful... Please.
*** A rainbow just threw up on me... and now I'm sh*tting glitter! ***
By the way - My husband is a
By the way - My husband is a wonderful man, but his ex, Of course!!, is a complete victim whiner who took advantage of him. I really am not like that. I am self-sufficient. But for a very long time, any time I would do or say something that would be reminiscent of a comment his ex used to make, my dear sweet husband would get his back up so freakin' fast. He was NOT going to be hurt that way ever again.
Your wife may react harshly to you because she is so over being treated poorly and she knows somewhere in her mind that you won't do that to her. But she still may get her back up and completely run you over - or try to.
Please don't take it personally. It's her fears of being "controlled" again coming out. That's another thing you need to help her understand.
*** A rainbow just threw up on me... and now I'm sh*tting glitter! ***
Update...TONIGHT! lol As
Update...TONIGHT! lol As could be expected after school was a real treat...SD called mom on her cell crying and falsely accused me of punishing her for no reason...I got on the phone and explained that I had switched the rooms and that I would explain in detail when she got home...when she did I sat the both of them down and explained why I did what I did, which was to show SD AND Wife that I will not let someone other than myself or my wife make the decisions in this household. I explained to my SD through her tears that I heard what she had said to her father and that I know she did what she did to make him happy but that I would not let it be at my expense. I explained to my wife that I could not in good conscience support this "do whatever you need to do to get by" stance she took and that while I may not have a say as to what goes on with her daughter I most certainly have a say as to what goes on in my house. While she was angry she understood that what I was doing was what I've always done and that is stand my ground when I don't believe in something...she says she wished I had included her in the decision but that she understood why I did what I did (score one for me lol). Well brattus maximus didn't agree (what a surprise) and threw an absolutely crying fit and tantrum...then stomped her way up the stairs to go to her old bedroom...WELL by the second stomp I yelled at the top of my lungs for her to stop and don't move another step! She stopped and turned around and looked at me and I said "This is not your house to go stomping around and throwing tantrums and you better understand that I will not stand for it!" Now you walk quietly upstairs to your new room! She yelled back "I'm going to tell my daddy what you did... he said you can't tell me what to do much less punish me and if you tried to he would come over and take care of it right away!" Blinding rage and fury took over so much so that I couldn't see straight but I managed to keep it calm...I said "Well lets call daddy then and straighten this out once and for all!" All of a sudden...she didn't want to walk up to her new room...and all of a sudden she didn't want to call daddy...but too late...I said "You have 2 choices...you can call him and tell him or I can and trust me I will if you won't!" "Understand I will NOT be kept in contorl by ANYONE inside our outside of this house"...She said "Go ahead...you won't call him!" She doesn't think I have his phone numbers, which I do, so I took out my cell phone, showed her his number and said..."Thats Daddys cell number right?" You should have seen the look on her face. She wouldn't answer so I said...I know it is so lets talk to daddy and hit send! She screamed and threw herself at my feet and said "NOOOOOOOOO please don't call daddy please...he'll kill me!" I said why would he kill you. She said because if he found out that she lied to him again he told her he would be in serious trouble. I said so you admit that you lied to him about handling me to get the big bedroom. She said yes I did I lied because I had to because if I didn't do what he told me to do I get in trouble. Well guess what...the call was through and my phone was on speaker so she just admitted to everyone with him listening what she had done. She heard his voice come over the speaker calling out her name and she turned white as a ghost. I took the phone off speaker and explained that while we have only had one encounter to speak about SD that it was time we had another one because there were some serious issues that were going on. He did his usual yelling and bullying telling me I overstepped my boundaries to which I responded likewise (You tell your daughter what buttons to push because i'm a scaredy cat and if she doens't get what she wants youll do something about it). So I invited him to come to the house so we could do this out in the open in front of everyone, SD, Wife everyone! Well guess what...he wouldn't do it! He said he felt like it was a set up and wanted to meet in a neutral place. I said when and where. He told me tonight and where and I said see you then. Hung up and both SD and wife were just white as ghosts. I said to them, i'll be meeting up with him and we are gonna have a seroius conversation about whats going on! They were speechless. My wife actually told me not to go...that he is sneaky and underhanded and it could be a set up. I told her i'm not stupid and i took necessary precautions to make sure it would be fine. Wewll I just got back from that little talk and let me tell you something...just like I said...he barked I barked back...he threatened, I threatened back...he said blah blah blah and I said do what you gotta do because I will to! And what happened..."Oh I think that maybe this was a good idea and I know i've been a little over the top but shes my only daughter blah blah blah..I said yeah i understand but workin together is what will help her most..i know hes full of it but at least i showed them what happens when you stand up for yourself...now its been a long day so im signing offf and having a nice cold one! Nite
OH FedUP that is so great.
OH FedUP that is so great. Just like any bully, give them some push back and they back right down. Sounds to me like maybe BD's problem is that SD maybe lies to him about you? Her fear that he'd be mad that she lied AGAIN, is very telling in what may be going on on his end.
I made SD call her mother once when she lied to me about something. Same reaction. Crying, begging, but I made that call and SD was forced to tell her mother she lied. It was b-e-a-utiful.
At any rate - you did good! And it is good to know that when push comes to shove, your wife was in your corner.
"God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy" and you can't change crazy!!
Hey, that is great-!! I
Hey, that is great-!! I really wanted BD to get that room, and for SD to get straightened out - glad it worked out!!
_________________________________________________________
“Learn by practice.” - Martha Graham
Wow -- what a crazy drama!
Wow -- what a crazy drama! I'm really glad that you stood up to the dad. It sounds like that's something that will help your wife and SD, too -- for him to know that there's someone in the equation who isn't afraid of him and is on to his B.S.
BB
You are not second best, you are not second class. Do not ever let anyone make you feel that way. - 2BLoved
Phew! One nice thing that I
Phew!
One nice thing that I hope comes of this is SD now knows it's possible for you to stand up to her dad, even in her defense if necessary. This might just improve your bond with her, especially now that she can respect you for setting and maintaining boundaries for your home and family - SD included.
I agree with DPW; get this kid into counselling. I truly hope you can all behave as a family together. Good luck!
Sounds like this last drama
Sounds like this last drama may have been a blessing in disguise; SD now knows you are in control and are willing to stand your ground both to her and her dad. Maybe dad will now have a better understanding that you're not out to "get" his daughter. Not to defend him or anything, but chances are he was getting all sorts of one-sided stories from SD. Now that he's had a chance to actually see that you mean business and aren't the ogre SD might have made you out to be and that you are only trying to maintain a sense of stability, balance & fairness in your home, maybe he will be a more responsible parent and quit pitting SD against you. Good luck to you!
There is no doubt in my mind
There is no doubt in my mind that she was lying to EVERYONE! My wife just doesnt want to see it, partially because she knows what BD is capable of..thanks everyone..this website really does provide help and support that is desperately needed
FedUpStepdad - I read your
FedUpStepdad - I read your update and was like WOW!!! I am very happy for you that everything seemed to go so well.
BUT.... I don't think this is necessarily over.
Your wife's ex may have seem to have come to some contrition, but I can bet that the next time he sees that kid he will manipulate and scare her more. I wouldn't be surprised if he says to her, "Oh, I just made FedUpStepdad feel better so HE wouldn't punish you more or take it out on you more...."
I think counseling is very much in order. AND I think that you need to be sure to not just be a hardass with your SD11, but also be someone that she can come to and confide in. That kid's head has already been played with, and unfortunately, I don't see it getting better. For her, I see these mind games by her dad getting worse.
Sorry if I am being a downer. I just don't want this to get treated as "problem solved". One problem has been solved. Some more MAY have just cropped up.
*** A rainbow just threw up on me... and now I'm sh*tting glitter! ***
Stick and Stepaside..thank
Stick and Stepaside..thank you both so very much. I know there is much more to be done and ive always made it a point to let SD know I will always be there for her. Ive also let DW know that although she doesnt see it the way she is going about things is hurting more than helping. SD has been in therapy now for 6 mos and wife has agreed to talk to someone about her issues as well. I know i'm in for a long battle and being the type of person I am I know there is a lot of work to be done and BD will continue to do what hes doing if not worse. The best I can do is help both of these people as best I can and show them they dont have to live this life of fear. Im in it for the long haul so if BD thinks hes gotten over on me hes got another thing coming!