Back to controlling.
So I don't know if this is so much asking for advice or more just to vent but here it goes.
For a little while now SO and BM have actually had some progress when it comes to co-parenting. We had inklings that there was some manipulations behind close doors on her end BUT in the public eye and what could be documented things were improving.
We have a couple of events that came up that both parents wanted some adjustment of the CO agreement in terms of time. It was a pretty equal give and take on both parts. SO got extra time here and there while BM got the kids back early here and there.
Honestly it's been going so well that SO and I were looking at the upcoming holidays and he was considering being a bit flexible on return times and such because that's what you do when effective co-parenting is happening.
Well this weekend blew all that.
Let's remember that BM works all weekend. That as far as we understand from Friday night till they are dropped of at school money the kids are in the care of a member of her family if SO does not have them.
We had something going on and were going to be going through town and I told SO he should see about stopping so we could take the kids to lunch. No big deal right? Gives him and the kids a little extra time while giving the one watching them a short break.
Of course the people watching the kids wont let him take them unless BM gives the ok. This same person as admitted they know BM is being a horrible parent and doing him and the children wrong but they are afraid of backlash from BM. SO shoots BM a message through the parenting app and she quickly calls him. Of course she calls. She refused.
When we pick up the kids on Friday's sometimes we,ll stop so SO can see some of his friends. We don't stay long and these people are in no way harmful to the children nor are the kids left alone. Well that was why BM refused. On the phone she said "No because your going to take them to see X"
This of course upset SO greatly. BM before the lawyers got involved pulled this stuff all the time. If she did have complete control of everything she wouldn't let him see the kids. She went as far as saying they aren't allowed to be around my family at all. Of course there's nothing she can do about what he does with the actual CO time but her she is now trying to control him by refusing him extra time with the children. She's also very smart about it because she calls so there's no record. She's careful because she knows shes wrong and it will hurt her in court.
He does his best to restrict communication to the app but there are times like this that if he doesn't answer she just ignores it and time is important so what do you do? SO did message back through the app and she changed her tune and allowed him the kids but very cryptically made it clear if he did take them X place there would be retaliation.
So that's the first.
Second we now have the kids telling us that they are not allowed to do particular things with their dad. His daughter was talking about something and you could tell she slipped up and said something BM told her not to. BM is clearly "allowed" to do this with the children but not dad despite them sharing the same legal rights to the children.
So as we thought. BM wasn't co-parenting for the sake of the children. She was engaging in give and take for herself only to get what she wanted and now that she doesn't want anything of she's back to thinking only she has rights to be an actual parent and that him spending extra time with his kids isn't that important.
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You vented for us both. It's
You vented for us both. It's sad that co-parenting is only done when BM needs or wants something. It is confusing and frustrating. DH always ends up second guessing himself.
I am sorry. I know this scenario all too well. My hope is the skids (no ones in particular but all) come to realize the CP manipulated and played games, definitely did not make decisions in the best interest of the child.
As there is nothing in the
As there is nothing in the agreement (did she sign it yet?) about giving ROFR or some mention that if father asks for a few hours now and then while the BM is working and the kids are at Grandma's or whichever relative of the day , there is nothing to take to court making BM 'look bad' over. Sadly, because why not let Dad see the kids if she is not home but working and therefore not with the kids herself, she doesn't have to let Dad have any extra time. None.
Being co-parents, and good ones at that, doesn't necessarily BM has to agree and say 'yes' just because Dad asked This is partly why you'll read around this site and find members often saying to stick to the CO. There is no room for misunderstanding between parents nor of one parent being taken advantage of while the other parent plays stingy and controlling.
What your SO needs to remember is that even if he is trying and attempting to be agreeable (such as bending times on schedule for early arrival , early drop off) and BM is seemingly happily following along there is no reason to believe it will continue that way. Or that BM will give towards Dad because he gave towards BM.
Bm has proven herself to be a controlling high conflict person. She has proven herself to have no intentions of ever playing 'fair' or nice. So why keep expecting her to come to her senses and be all warm and fuzzy? You will get warm and fuzzy when and only when BM wants or needs something. Dad will get f-u when not.
Dad got f-u at first and then BM relented. Not sure why the app thing may have caused her change of heart, because she did not have to say 'ok'. But once BM did agree and let him have the kids for a few hours on her time, she really lost control of where Dad and kids were going or doing. Unless she can prove to a court these friends of Dad's are a bad thing (selling drugs with kids present, having an orgy with kids present, the friends are registered child predators blah blah) she'll come out sounding like 'I told Dad he could take the kids to McDonald's for lunch BUT he took them to Wendy's instead'.
Eh, the bottomline to all my rambling here is BM is never, never ever, ever, going to co-parent in the manner you wish and hope she will. Not going to happen. Dad can give and give and give some more all in the name of 'co-parenting' or "children's best interest" and it all means jack if BM doesn't want to return the favors and attempts of working together with the kids at the important consideration.
That's what happens when parents try and go out of the CO and why you read so many members here say stick to CO. Because they have discovered the hard way. Their DH/SO/BF gave and gave and tried hard to accommodate and put the kids interest first and time after time BM kicked Dad in the face aka simply told Dad 'ain't happening' when Dad tried to be the one asking a slight change, or a bit of extra time, or what have you. Your So can still keep trying to do a give and take thing outside the CO, sometimes BM might say 'yes', just be prepared for the times she says 'no' and don't get hung up over it. This time she gave in and said yes, but next time it may be a 'no. Why? Because she can and because Dad will only ever get yeses when BM , herself, wants something. As terrible of a comparison as this will sound, remember just because one gives a dog a doggie biscuit , doesn't mean the dog will also be your buddy. The next time dog may bite you.
The thing the judge might not
The thing the judge might not look to kindly on is that she is now telling the kids what they are and are not allowed to do with dad which is wrong.
That she is interrogating them to make sure he follows her "rules" and that she is in a form blackmailing him except it isn't money.
"You don't do what I say and you won't see them outside of CO."
She can say no but that's not what she is doing.
Just like I said. The only reason she "let" him have them is he wasn't afaird to put it in writing in the app which breaks that image she's trying to project of bring mother of the year prefect coparent.
She is the primary parent. She is suppose to be helping to encourage a positive relationship with dad and she's already showing clear signs of attempting parental alienation.
It's just building the proof.
She is crazy but it was
She is crazy but it was expected. He needs to go through legal channels, not asking her
Did dad request to have every weekend? Was it denied? Or did he ask for ROFR and it was denied?
If not (why not?) and CO states he has EOW then BM is just following CO. If dad wants to adjust CO he could talk to a lawyer and make proper adjustment. BM will not "look bad" in court for following CO. She is terrible but she isn't violating anything
Ideally of course parents could play by ear and make adjustments for each other. Ex and I did but many exes can't and won't do it. Your SO and BM don't get along so such positive co parenting will not take place. If changes need to happen, he has to go through courts.
Also if he wants full custody he needs to start asking for more time. Instead of only EOW he could ask for every weekend and ROFR. When and if he goes for full custody he'd show that he asked for more. Otherwise he'd be asked why he oriogjnally only requested 4 days a month and now wants full custody. He needs to show (through legal channels) that he wants kids more.
She did attempt to enter ROFR
She did attempt to enter ROFR but they were a twisted joke. That it didn't take place until the parents or grandparents can't watch them.
She refuses to accept anything that gives him more time offically without an expensive lengthy court battle.
She wouldn't accept normal ROFR. She wouldnt accept him having every weekend.
She is in control right now because she has the kids and he doesn't have the money.
He has requested more time. He has tried to show that she is harmful to the children.
What he has isn't enough.
Well it was not Dad's time so
Well it was not Dad's time so he can't be upset about BM refusing.....
but she's a bitch for doing it anyway....
now I downloaded an app on my phone where you can record phone conversations, and it's totally legal if you tell the other person, you are being recorded.... before saying anything else... so it's like answering the phone saying, Hi BM, keep in mind you are being recorded on this phone conversation....
Unfortunately, that isn't
Unfortunately, that isn't true in every state here. Some states you don't have to inform a person, some states you have to inform the person, and some states all parties have to agree to be recorded.
Remember Acra, Mars has weird laws compared to the US, in that they make sense and are universally applied.
Most countries does this... a
Most countries does this...
a little warning you are being recorded for record keeping blablablablabla.... and if the recording should be used in a court of law, then both parties have to agree (this is now on company phones, they are not allowed to share the conversation unless all participants signed a yes)
but domestic calls and personal phones.... you simply warn the other caller you are being recorded and then you record, remember this BM avoids emails cause it counts against her, she ignores CO and parenting app, she calls to belittle and swear at them.. now if you record her it's evidence enough IMO an d I think any court will accept it
in Canada you can legally
in Canada you can legally record a conversation without the other party's knowledge or consent, as long as you are an active part of the conversation. You don't have to tell them they're being recorded. The recording can be used in court, with only one party's consent.
so for us, in family law proceedings, Dad can record phone call with McB!tchy-BM and use the recording in court, even without BM's knowledge or consent.
It's great.
I would still warn them... as
I would still warn them... as soon as they know I'm recording them they will stop their shit, cause no one really wants to go to court now...
but it's just my opinion.... people tend to calm down as soon as they know it can be used against them.. thus a fair warning is a decent thing to do
oh I know they do... but I
oh I know they do... but I still wouldn't bother warning them - they should already know better.
I have no patience for two faced bs. They get what they deserve. Do the crime, do the time.
In our state only one party
In our state only one party must be informed that a recording is being made. We already looked into it.
And again it's not that she said no. It's that she's pretty much blackmailing him. "Do what I want or no extra time with the kids."
She'd rather they sit in the house with a dying family member playing on tablets and phones all day then see their dad an extra hour because he took them with him to say hi to friends. Such a horrible father. I'll clarify that during this extra time he had no intentions other then spending time with the kids.
It's when he picks them up for the weekends that he will sometimes stop for maybe an hour or so. I'll watch the kids so we can get a drink or they can play around for a bit before we sit in a car for an hour.
The family members themselves either don't care that dad wants them or are thankful for the break because BM leaves the kids so often BUT they are afraid to do something without her consent because McBitch / manipulator she is.
This woman once threatened to prevent him from seeing the kids because we took them to the movies and she got pissed because it was the youngest first movie. She literally thought that he was going to leave me and the youngest alone at the house while he and the oldest went alone. Then a month later she threatened to call the cops if I was every alone with the children while she withheld them during that weekend.
No she hasn't broken the current CO agreement and he is a few signatures away from it being finalized. She's been warned how well that will go over but it's the extra time while she's at work that she pulls this crap over.
I'll talk to him about seeing which app the lawyer would say to use for recording because this last one would really hurt her in court. It shows just what kind of mother she is.
Make sure you protect your
Make sure you protect your own mental health and sanity. His ex causes you so much mental anquish, pain and frustration and even intense feeling of hatred (and not just skids related) and you two haven't been together that long. Imagine many years of this ahead. You need to find ways to ground yourself, let some things go or you drive yourself nuts. It's detrimental to your health. Protect yourself
Thank you. Yes I do
Thank you.
Yes I do understand the concern here. Thankfully I've got years of experience when it comes to protecting myself mentally. I work in mental health so I understand the value of therapy as needed and do have someone that I can see as needed. I did see him a few times in this past year to talk about things like work, SO, the kids, and his ex.
Though she causes me frustration I am very fortunate that my partner is so amazing. Honestly he does act as a very good boundary so I don't deal with her directly. I get upset about how it impacts him. Being able to come here and vent / gripe does enough to help me chill out and go back to supporting him. There are also times I do tell him "Your problem, I'm done."
Our home life is amazing considering how it's been for me in the past and my relationship with the children is very positive for me and I hope for them. There father has done a wonderful job of setting up expectations of how they are to treat me and our home.
I am aware that there will be many challenges in the future which I can not prepare for. For that reason my partner and I constantly talk about where we are and what we want.
I'm not going to say that I could leave him tomorrow without considerable anguish but I do know by this point in my life I will live. I do have back ups in place should I ever need to run as does he. Neither of us intend to give these up since we feel it is healthy for us to always have the option if needed.
Over all though it's not easy I am happy. I very much love my partner and the compatibility is incredible. We are very much on the same page as to what we want from life and where we want to be. He supports me as much as I support him. I don't want to say either of us is perfect but we do well to balance out each other's weaknesses.