SD17-almost-18 Caught Shoplifting for the 2nd time - and I am shocked. What to do next.
SD17 has no prior records. She doesn't party at all (no friends to hang out with, no drugs, no drinking). She DOES like to lie, and she gets a thrill from pushing buttons.
Here is what I have been told: SD17 was caught New Years Day in JC Penny, while shopping with BM, and I was told that the security person claimed it was the 2nd time they have seen her stealing. She was given a warning and a fine to pay, because she is under 18. JC Penny has banned her from any of their stores for 1 year. If she tries to go inside, she has been told she will be arrested for trespassing.
We live in California, so I have been reading up on the penalties. The fiscal punishment amount is up to $250 for petty theft (petite, under $500). To us - that is A LOT! SD17 has NO JOB, and the only job she has had, she was let go because of a short drawer. I believe it is possible that she was let go for stealing.
I am hurt, dismayed, and shocked. I have always made it clear that stealing is a crime and to be taken very seriously. Her father, my SO, when in his 20's made mistakes and had to do prison time, for non-violent crime. It has affected his entire life - lost jobs, lost opportunities, etc. She knows of this, yet still chose to do this and I believe she has done it more than we know.
My SO was NOT going to tell me at first, and so I badgered him, and he told me, finally. Then he became angry, and said that I was going to tell my family and use it against her in an argument, and "shame her". We had some words, but I have been largely quiet and keeping thoughts to myself. He said it perfectly when he said that "he couldn't trust her in a store ever again". He also made mention of exploring some "scared straight" programs, taking her to view inmates in a prison.
If she does it after 18th birthday in April, it will affect her record, and her entire career opportunities will wash down the drain. (I am freaking out right now, sorry for the drama!). I am concerned, not because I care about her to that degree - she has effectively diminished her role in my life and any connection we have is tenuous - but that would severely hamper the "launch plan", and make her ever more dependent on Daddy cakes.
My SO, tells me that she is like a "special needs" child, even when she is yelling at him or myself. That when she is snotty and disrespectful, I should just ignore it and "move through it". Well he is paying the price right now. I am almost laughing through the anger and sadness, because just last night I tried to tell him that doing everything for the kids is hurting more than helping them. This is when he knew of the shoplifting charges and I did not. He argued with me and said "they are my only children (sd10 & sd17), I just feel like if I want to do things for them, I should be able to." I told him "you should teach them to do for themselves, to help out, and not just sit there in the living room watching tv, or on their phones, or in their rooms doing whatever."
The REAL kicker? It was like a punch to the stomach when he told me "YOU are the one with the problem. You are always arguing with her (SD17)". That he was ANGRY at me, as if it was my fault, somehow. That was the ultimate. Because as part of my backstory, yes we have always argued, and then I apologize, and we have civility. When I met her she was always arguing with her father, and being disrespectful and lazy. Nothing has changed. I have just been better at dealing with her.
I do not want to always be watching my wallet. I do not want to argue with SO about her anymore. (its been 2 1/2 years of arguing about her behavior) I am going to wait 4 months to see if he follows through on his promises of "when she turns 18, things will be different, there will be no child support issues". Her BM, she has very little money, so of course any fines to be paid will be paid by my SO. I have 4 months or less to figure out my exit strategy, because this has become more serious than I can or want to handle.
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Comments
Yes, Super Jew, I definitely
Yes, Super Jew, I definitely should have said something like that. I was still in shock, and wasn't really thinking clearly. You know how you always have the perfect response AFTER the conversation is over? I keep mentioning "hey, shes NOT a little kid anymore!" To deaf ears.
Oh! No - I took you at what
Oh! No - I took you at what you were saying - not judgmental at all. But you know how it is in text. Cant see face, hear voice, etc.
Thanks! I am feeling that she (and consequently us) were very lucky, but there is a lot I do not know of this situation. All the emotional rollercoastering is occurring for us right now as a result.
Its tough not take it on - I
Its tough not take it on - I have been better at disengagement, however, and this pretty much is sealing it. I do not have children of my own, but I think that you are spot on - lax and permissive parenting. She does whatever and there are no consequences. Nothing is expected of her either.
SaneCatLady, his reasoning is
SaneCatLady, his reasoning is that with 2 children, because it is 50/50, and he pays no child support, that once she turns 18, he will not have the responsibility hanging over him. We will then "downsize" from 3 bedroom to 2, thusly making it more difficult for her to "land" at our house. Right now, she has been thinking that after high school she will still live with us, because it is comfortable, she is his daughter, etc, instead of with her BM.
Yeah, I agree - he is not doing the right thing by his child, but she is almost an adult and able to make her own choices in life. I think he is angry at her, but cannot show it to her.
I am thinking that he is
I am thinking that he is going to make it more difficult, for her to justify living with us, when she has other alternatives. Her BM has a small 2 bedroom apartment up the street and around the corner from us. We live in a large 3-bedroom house. We are planning on moving so we are not so close to BM, and all of HER drama. Not as much booting her out, as making it more difficult, with expectations. Rent $. Job. Etc.
You know what, though? I don't know!!! Seriously, I feel halfway to crazy trying to explain, but I do know that when 18 happens, he will readjust his life. I think he is in conflict right now. His precious daughter, who doesn't do any drugs, or drink, or have a boyfriend is caught STEALING. he is still trying to wrap his head around things. And keep his head above water. Im sure it is breaking his heart, and making him feel like a failure right now.
STILL not a good reason to be angry. We are good right now, I think it was an initial reaction.
I do not know what to do about this. My gut said "run!!!"
OMG that is rich!! It's all
OMG that is rich!! It's all YOUR fault she chose to steal from the store, because you argue with SD. How did you not junk punch him right then and there???
I know - logic at its finest.
The word "Consequences" is a
The word "Consequences" is a bad word, obviously, because when I say it, there is conflict. He calls her "special needs" because although she is 17-almost-18, she has emotional maturity of 12-maybe-13. She does not drive a car. No permit. No job. Cant really cook. I know she will always be his child, but even HE is frustrated at this point. I think, with his life experiences, he is like a deer in the headlights. Freaking out inside. I'm keeping silent, which is highly unusual for me, and letting it sink in and the smoke clear a bit.
She gets away with SO much. She's little and acts cutesy when she wants something. Everyone thinks she is so precious, and sweet. The monster only comes out to play at home.
I am extremely afraid that
I am extremely afraid that her "launch" will not happen, and that my SO, will have to shoulder the responsibility. I do not want her in my home right now, so when she comes over (to give BM and BF a break), I am stressing at what she will bring with her, in terms of bad energy. Heck, Im just stressing, period!
Yes, BM, when she drinks,
Yes, BM, when she drinks, would get violent and physically abusive with my SO, who is a large solid man. He couldn't defend himself really (spousal abuse charges not worth it). SD17 TRIED to curse in our home and was told that was unacceptable, but she is "mouthy' harsh and in-your-face snotty too. YEP. Sounds too darn familiar!
Talk about a great
Talk about a great mother/daughter activity...NOT!!!
IMO, the dad is upset and unfairly projecting that on the OP.
Wow, I am just now learning
Wow, I am just now learning that it has become common for mother-daughter shoplifting cases to happen!
Yes, he is projecting, but I think he is in shock that his sweet little baby girl would do such a thing. He seems to think she is smarter than that. After all, she isn't dating, doesn't drive, has no friends, doesn't drink, do drugs or smoke...she must be perfect, right?
oh hrnyc you'd be
oh hrnyc you'd be surprised.... when that happens, they usually also charge the parent with "contributing to the delinquency of a minor".
i've had up to three generations on probation all at the same time. it's sad.
what's really surprising to me is how OP's sd got a slap on the wrist with this one. we get 17 yr olds all the time. 1st shoplifting offense here is $700.00 fine, 12 months probation at $50/m, plus 24 hours of community service, and a $200.00 8-hr "alternative behaviors course". if a 17 yr old gets caught stealing, they are expected to GET A JOB to pay the penalties of their chosen actions.
HRNYC - In California perhaps
HRNYC - In California perhaps things are more lenient. I don't have all the information, of course, I just saw a text sent to SO from BM. He has not spoken to either one as of today. But who knows. He might be hiding things from me. According to text, she was given a warning, BECAUSE she was with mother, no mention of child endangerment. Perhaps that is a separate thing? ARRRRRG I do not know all the ins and outs of this kind of thing!
I did a basic search. If they are juvenile, the item worth is under a certain amount, then its perhaps cheaper not to prosecute. I know there is certainly a fine being mailed. And she is banned from any store for 1 year period. It might be under jurisdiction of the store, what they choose to do under the existing codes.
He seems to think that it is
He seems to think that it is only restricted to stores. I don't have anything missing that I have noticed. But she is into new clothes/makeup/products. Not anything that I have. She doesn't have any friends at this time, no boyfriend either.
I have not a single shred of idea what JC Penny will do. I know there were fines mentioned. My SO is definitely hiding details from me. Exit strategy is in the works...!
I know - weird, right? BM is
I know - weird, right? BM is very permissive. My sneaking suspicion is going all over the map on this one. There is a lot I do not know. For instance:
- "How long has she been doing this?" - she always seemed to find great deals, and have lots of makeup and product REALLY cheap, like 2 dollars...clothing given to her by cousins and aunties. She was let go from her only job, mysteriously.
- "Why? What is motivation?" - she received a lot of cash over Christmas, plus took paid care of granny for a few days.
Im wondering, if it was just the thrill of it. The thrill of maybe getting caught. The only reason she was with her mother was because she cant get anywhere on her own, and she wont walk to places. She is always driven. So she has to "perpetrate the crime" when with a parent, because that's who takes her to these places. Her father will drop her off for a few hours at the mall. Her mother was taking her to the grandparent for holiday, so it might just be situational.
1. Snowflake steals cuz SM !?
1. Snowflake steals cuz SM
!? Good to know, you won't have me to mess up your kid anymore. Bye.
2. You're gonna "shame" her, oh, the humanity!!!
She shamed her frigging self and damn straight she otta feel some shame!!! Is that how you feel about every other shoplifter/thief in the world? 'Oh, no one better shame them!' Yeah, didn't think so. She's no damn different. Just ask Penneys. Next time, you'll find out what the courts think about it. All that child support you're gonna save? You're gonna need it for bail, defense attorneys, fines, commissary accounts at jail, etc.
I know that he was projecting
I know that he was projecting his anxiety on me just because I was right there, when the REAL object of this emotion was his daughter dearest. His main complaint is that because we are always arguing (I am always "on her") I will use the information to "shame her", not that I caused her to steal. I really have been hands off in any kind of parenting with her. She has taken a very strong stance against me guiding or helping her understand anything, that I "do not control her because I am not her parent", and that "she was here first, just so I know", meaning that I have no jurisdiction over my own home.
Last night, when he knew this and I did not, we were talking about all the benefits of moving. Like to start fresh, away from BM and her drama (drinking, meds, boyfriend issues/arguments he gets sucked into), and now I understand that he was including SD and all HER drama too!
We had this conversation about how the attachment to childhood home would be broken, so it would be OUR home instead of HER home that she grew up in.
But, yeah. She should be ashamed, and I am hoping once he gets himself together, he will be very strong in giving some kin of consequences.
BM is really a piece of work,
BM is really a piece of work, with her excessive drinking, and she has been a monster with me and my SO. She is Bi-polar, and she DOES lie. SD has learned how to lie, and I have caught her several times. So, what you have experienced is mother-daughter "having fun together, lets take something" activities?????
To my knowledge, BM has a DUI, and that is all. She made it seem in her text to SO that she was surprised and disappointed. Wouldn't security have caught BM too? I don't know the procedure, or how that would work. But I DO know that BM has a wonky moral compass.
yes, that's what we are afraid of. Crossing my fingers that this was a good enough scare, but I think that having just a fine (that Daddy will pay, after a short little angry lecture) will not have scared her enough.
JC Penny. Which is located in
JC Penny. Which is located in a high crime city. Gangs etc. So I think they were lenient because 1. Juvenile 2. Cost of item low 3. No proof (?) I don't know enough of this kind of thing, but I always see signs on department store dressing doors "shoplifters will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law".
The mother is definitely weird. hmmm. Bonding. Like two schoolgirls taking a dare...? Great.
I really hope that somehow, someone cracks down on her before 18th birthday.
O! yes, contributing to
O! yes, contributing to delinquency of minor - serious offense I believe, children get taken away from parents and go into foster care.
Scratch a liar, find a thief.
Scratch a liar, find a thief. Stealing is sometimes an addiction in itself. They like the high they get after shoplifting and getting away. If she's done it once, you can bet she's done it many times before. I have the feeling mom may have introduced her to this little hobby.
I can't believe her dad wasn't dying of embarrassment. I'd be sick if I found out I had raised a thief. Maybe this whole feeling like a failure thing isn't so off base.
Only four more months and then she can't call home the next time she's caught. She'll be asking dad for bail money.
Just know for sure that none of this is your fault. Her parents have not prepped her for life and that is a failure on their part. She obviously does not want to grow to and no one is going to make her. I hope you find some peace in this insane situation.
There was a poster here who had a step daughter who chose to do a fifth year of high school because she wanted to be with her 12-13 year old friends in drama club. I'm sorry you're having to deal with the fallout of mom and dad's mistakes.
(((Thank you for
(((Thank you for kindness)))
I have discussed this with my SO - the way SD acts sometimes, she pokes and prods and button-pushes with her 10-yo sister, me, her father, I think she DOES get a thrill from it. I mentioned that to him. She doesn't DO ANYHTING, so she gets her drama from acquiring stuff illegally. We have been going back in time and thinking "yeah, she gets paid for watching grandma, but she always seems to want to go shopping and always has new stuff". Plus, with her going between our house and BM's apartment its hard to track how much stuff she actually has. Im learning that mothers and daughters often do this together...weird. My mother and I would go out to lunch and read books...
I do not know what is going through his head right now. He wont talk to me, just doesn't want me telling my family or bringing it up in conversation with SD17.
REALLY super tired of drama.
"doesn't want me
"doesn't want me telling/talking about this"
Well, he can't control his 17 year old daughter but he's very confident at controlling you. Nice.
I would flat out tell him it's not your secret and in fact it's not a secret at all. The consequences of having raised a thief is that people are not going to want to be around her and they are going to warn each other about her. Furthermore, this situation is very stressful for you and you have a right to talk it over with your own support system. That's just a fact of life. If he thinks the rest of the world is going to go around making excuses for her and "keeping the secret" he is going to have a rude awakening.
Also, I hope this gramma she gets paid for is BM's mother, not SO's. From what our ST "Legal Department?Criminal Justice Department" is telling us there's a good chance there's tons of illicit loot at BM's, the little hobby may have started with that Gramma, and whichever Gramma it is will sooner or later be a victim of the girl's five-finger discount.
Chief - I agree. And already
Chief - I agree. And already spoke with my mother. Need that support!!!! I still don't know what to do/expect/how to react with all of this. Like how do I ACT around her? She still lives with us parttime. I just KNOW Ill say something (Im a smarta$$)
My SO's 93-yo gramma is who she watches. She takes the kids turns for cash.
Now I am wondering WHO is she in cahoots with.
Yikes, if it is momma - will the SD10 do the same thing if influenced? She has already hacked into a friends account in an application called animal jam and stolen that friends stuff, transferred it to her own account, at her other friends urging (bully behavior, she was severely reprimanded by me.) The mother just thought it was "cool, a hacker", and laughed.
Im seeing a trend...
Yes Rosa - I am planning exit
Yes Rosa - I am planning exit strategy as we speak. Nice new location would be the best thing on the planet. Luckily SO and I are not married as of yet, and do not own the house where we reside (renters) so dashing is easier. Just need the boxes and ca$h.
APPARENTLY
APPARENTLY
This infuriated me. I am in
This infuriated me.
I am in retail management. EVERY theft directly effects ME.
I have 0 tolerance for thieves. I do not under any circumstances care about the thief. I don't care if your parents divorced, suck it up f===kwad. I don't care if you are homeless, I don't care if your child died. I DO NOT CARE!!!! IF you do the crime YOU will do the time. I will prosecute you to the FULLEST extent of the law.
IF your mommy and daddy don't bother to teach you about laws and consequences, jail will. I will put you there if you steal from me.
Blueorblack - I was manager
Blueorblack - I was manager of a small but busy candy shop. When I first came on board, I found one of the other employees stealing cash. I was also infuriated. For a few reasons:
1. Were they framing me and going to get me fired?
2. I work hard to pay my bills honestly, and if I have to suck it up to do so, I suck it up!
3. Why should they not work and make more through dishonesty?
4. As a fellow woman, I want my female co-workers to be better than that!
When this happened, I spoke of it to the two skids, and mentioned how angry I was and how they got caught and fired. I thought the eldest was smarter than that. I think that is good - juveniles SHOULD get in trouble to the fullest of the law, and hopefully wont continue to mess up their lives when they become adults. I think she got away too easy, but I don't know all the details, and we haven't received any notices or fines yet.
Im still trying to wrap my head around it. But I CAN say that she wont be allowed to go into ANY stores with us, at least until May, when she turns 18. Her mother (who she was with when caught) is on her own.
CLove - this is not your
CLove - this is not your child, no one wants to listen to your concerns, now fill up the wine glass sit back and laugh when she does this age 19 - if SO then comes to you, smile and say - oh no Hon, you told me you will deal with it, deal with it.... SD is killing away her own future and there's nothing you can do about it...just let it go
Make sure she does not move in permanently till age 40... not even till age 19... DH said she will be out, keep him to that
I drank my wine and let it go
I drank my wine and let it go last night.
I REALLY do not want her as a housemate when she graduates from high school. In some of my other blog postings, I made mention of the tensions between us - she regards me as the interloper, because "she was here first, just so you know". We are at odds because I consider myself "queen of the castle", and she doesn't like my rules. Rules like have a towel under the rabbit when playing with her inside, don't allow the 60-lb dog to jump on you just because you think its cute, don't let the dog jump and lay on the furniture just because you think its cute, and clean your own dishes.
This little escapade took things to a much higher level. Cant go to store with her, at least until May, or I could get into trouble, or my SO could get into even more trouble. So, yes, its all really on him. And the Ex. Time to LET GO.
BTW - reading my post was a choice, yes?
how much wine...... Aergia
how much wine......
Aergia once played the card I was here first and I smiled and said and I'm the one giving blow jobs so who do you think has the power...... 12 months to go before she flies the coup!!!!!
Obviously not enough!
Obviously not enough! Tequila.
LOL. I need to use that!!!!! But since we aren't speaking to her really, there is not going to be much of a chance, so I really "blew" that one.
yeah I went there.