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As My World Turns

CLove's picture

Well, I took advice given. And withdrew from everything as much as I could. Went radio silent, in fact. No one really saw me much over the weekend.

Last night Husband dropped a little bombshell on me - he has plans to redo all the floors in the house. Hes tired of looking at our old carpeting from 1960. He wants to rehab the kitchen and wants to look at another house thats for sale this weekend. He said that he plans to rent our current space to his close friend who needs to move. (I jokingly call him my other roomate) and live in something new and different. He said that our current house "has too many bad memories of the previous relationship". 

I am a little gobbsmacked. We had just had a bad weekend where he said "there is no more joy here and in my life there is no joy". Pointing to his two classic cars he sits next to while watching tv on his big screen. Now after this, hes telling me we are going to expand our real estate "empire".

I wonder if he has a little bi-polorism. We have talked about the need to rehab the house and move a few towns over. We simply have no community in our current location. And we dont go out that much because its a 20-30 minute drive 1 way to do anything we like to do. This kind of sudden getupandgo is just surprising, after we were both moping around all weekend. I wonder now at the cause. It is because his friend has to move in the next few months and in our area places are either rented right away or too expensive? The market is SUPER hot right now. our mortgage is SEVERELY below market. Like by 200k.

Then, another big turnaround.

Sd15 has a "friendsgiving" today (tuesday) and actually wanted to go to her mothers to complete her dish. And came to me almost in tears because she was supposed to be dropped off, and had planned on it and then suddenly plans changed and she was staying with us an additional night.

So that opened the door for a very short but intense discussion about the issues I have had as well. We make plans, we plan things, we organise our lives around these things, and then at someone elses whim, everything changes and nothing is communicated. I told her "I totally empathise with you, because I am also impacted by changes in your schedule. I dont completely understand what you are going through because your experience is unique to YOU, but I strongly empathise". 

I then decided to take it a few steps further, and added "this will all be different when you are able to drive yourself..." and like she has in the past, she finished my sentence for me "because then I can go when I plan on going and it doesnt change unless I need to change it..."

It was a surprising learning moment. She understood why I like plans and like to stick to them. Its about respect. She nodded when I said that. Respect for her plans (now that she has them...) and my plans and everyones life plans. The importance of communication is not lost either, because when I mentioned that lack, thats when the tears really threatened. Husband saw her being upset, and all he had to do was say "your mother is picking you up because Ive had a few drinks, and I dont want you to beupset, it make me upset when you act upset, so please try to understand." And she dissappeared into her room. It was THAT easy for him. The unfairness of this is not lost on me (or any of you for that matter)

In spite of the change in attitudes and atmosphere, I know that the underlying issues have not been resolved. I have communicated that I need to be informed of schedule changes for his child. That I dont feel I can trust her, the trust has been broken. That I feel he doesnt have my back when it comes to either of his children. Nothing has been addressed and resolved. Maybe SD15 will grow and become a better person eventually. I know that Ive had some growth. Steptalkers - progress reports came in. I printed and gave to Husband, and that was that. No discussion with him about it or the grades or anything. In fact - Im not going to even discuss it here! So...growth. Slow and arduous as it is...

I will keep on my current path towards creating my own joy. And plans. It seems that you steptalkers good vibes in my direction might be working, so thank you.


Stepdrama2020's picture

I was wondering how your world was going.

Lady keep keeping those boundaries. You handled backstabber very well. Bravo kind lady.

As for your DH, he sure flip flops.

CLove's picture

He sure does and its giving me weird vibes.

Things have been much better today, I was very despondent about the weekend. Everywhere else it was beautiful and gorgeous weather, but at my house all seemed so dark, I even drew the curtains.

Maybe thats what Husband was realizing and reacting to - and being a fixer as he is, his reaction was "how do I fix this darkness? Oh I know Ill redo everything today."

About her - I guess its supposed to be norma the up and down, but it just strikes me that she gets over things quickly when she wants my sympathy otherwise she couldnt really care that much. And holidays everyone pretty much shines up their attitude.

Boundaries. Im reading up on them and more importantly, communicating them.

Funny aside I think you will like. Husband actually asked me "what do the steps in your 'group' say when you tell them about skid wanting to stay extra and all that...?"

lol. I told him "well across the board everyone agrees that schedule changes should involve me...where do you think I get these ideas from anyway?"


Tried out's picture

I don't understand the logistical problems. Why was she spending an extra night when she had an invite to a friend's house and why was she upset about it if her mother was picking her up so she could go?

CLove's picture

My  brain just normally fills in the blanks in my story.

SD15 is off this week from school.

Her mother quit her job, and is available for transport to this friends place. Plus its her mothers week starting Monday. The mother hardly ever does ANY kind of kid transport. Husband was tired and did not feel up to driving her to her mothers place about 15 minutes away.

SD15 was making truffles and it wasnt going well (she had the whole of sunday and monday but procrastinated) and thought she would have monday night at her mothers to see if the refrigeration was going to be better than ours because they were gooey, so she was REALLY planning on being at her mothers Monday night. Since husband was tired and had a few beers he wanted her to stay until tuesday am pickup by mother. Which went against her monday night truffle plans...

LOL. So glad THAT was over!

caninelover's picture

Regarding the house.  I mean, does he want to renovate the current house, move to a new house, or both?  

The market is hot right now but buying is difficult with many houses going above asking price.  So be careful not to let him push you into a rush decision.  He sounds a little impulsive and irrational.  Also why is he telling you this?  Don't you own half the current house?  It should be a discussion and decision by both of you...

Good job with disengaging on B/M's progress report - not your problem.


CLove's picture

Thats right - there are bidding wars and homes are selling above asking. His idea is rent our 3 bed 2 bath to his friend who can pay over our mortgage with taxes by 400 plus monthly. Then if we can take the "market equity" (our home mortgage is at 300, market selling is 500) and use it to put towards another separate home that he is seeing for sale for 600.

I tried to tell him that anything we "take out" of our current home, will up the mortgage. I really think he needs to see the numbers. Maybe Im wrong. I dont think so, but will work the numbers and see.

Aniki-Moderator's picture

And what happens if Friend decides to move out and there is no renter's income? Figure that into the equation.

hereiam's picture

Not to mention that renting to a friend (being his landlord) can cause problems on it's own.

Aniki-Moderator's picture

Exactly. I let a friend use my exclusive-to-that-store credit card. His car had been stolen and was trashed. Another friend gave him his old van, but it needed tires. I offered to let him use my card on the condition that he pay me back. He pays, but it's when he wants to (or claims he can), whereas *I* have to pay that bill (minimum) every month. 2.5 years now to pay off $800. By the time he pays this off, he'll pay darn near double the price of those tires. I certainly learned my lesson about friends and money! *dash1*

CLove's picture

That is mind boggling.

Yeah, no the more I think on it the more against renting to anyone I am. Sell the sucker and move on. 

Meanwhile, if this gets him off his chair and ready to remodel the kitchen - great! I will point out the major benefits of NOT keeping home as a rental. 

Ive noticed he gets these big ideas, and then he encounters difficulties and the idea loses steam eventually:

1. Buying a fishing boat and proper licensing and creating a business. That was work, and made fishing not as relaxing

2. Bikes - went out once. This is something I need to remedy by training at the gymn.

3. Swing dance lessons  - yeah sounds good lets go!  - football season,crab season, salmon season...

4. more boats! - took my kayak out once. Sat by while I paddled. Not interested in getting another one so we can go together. Im going to go with my Dad and see if that will get things moving.

Maybe its me? Maybe Im not pushing things hard enough? I really dont know how to push hard. And when I try he pushes back...and football season.

Aniki-Moderator's picture

I should have clarified that he agreed to pay every month - and did not. There is ONE person to whom I will lend money. I've known her 30 years, it's never a big amount, and she pays me back on time. 

Anyhoo, yeah. Renting to friends/family is, IMO, a disaster waiting to happen. They will play the Family or Friend card as a excuse for, well, whatever! And of course you'll understand why I can't pay you this month (or for the next 3, 4, 10...), but I swear I'll pay it all when <donkeys fly, roosters lay eggs, Hell freezes over...>.

And then there is the issue of renting to strangers and all of the BS you have to deal with, the possibility (even if their credit/background checks out) they will default and squat, and they could leave your property in shambles. I bet your husband would poop a ring around himself if he learned his rental property is only fit to be condemned. Sell it!

CLove's picture

Plus I feel we would be on the hook for friend if something happened and friend gets injured, or loses his job.

caninelover's picture

So current mortgage is $300K, and he wants a house that is $600K.  Friend moves in and pays $400/month over current mortgage (I assume you both still live there with him?  Otherwise where do you live?).  Current house can sell for $500K, so to keep your mortgage the same you'd need another $100K up front.  With the $400/month you would have $100K in about 15 - 20 years.

Or, you suck it up and increase the mortgage to $400k.  

Definitely run the numbers as this plan seems to have a lot of holes in it.

CLove's picture

Current house = $300,000

Market Selling for equivalent homes = $550,000 and up

New House  = $634,000

so his plan is to see if we can borrow the down/closing from Current home to pay for new: $150,000 

So then Current Mortgage would almost double from 1,600. to a little over 3,000. Friend has roommates so can pay that no problem.

And we can afford the New Home mortgage together not a huge problem.

But these are all apple pie in the sky numbers. He is seeing his sister buy and sell homes and buying a home for 700 plus with okay credit score and she makes a little over 6 figures. 

I will need to meet with a broker and see if its even doable.

In the meantime hes going to be using some of his inheritance to redo all the floors. Ill just let him. Because for the last year plus hes not done anything.


caninelover's picture

I had a friend who tried this strategy back in boom years prior to the Great Recession.  Ended in bankruptcy and losing the 3 houses she had bought, including the beachfront place which had to be short-sold.

The sale and then buying is fine.  Personally the renting to the friend business could turn ugly as others have said.  If you and DH can afford both places and their respective mortgages for a few months if the friend needs to leave, then that's another story.  Ultimately it's both your decisions but run the numbers and consider the risks before you take the plunge.

notarelative's picture

- he has plans to redo all the floors in the house. Hes tired of looking at our old carpeting from 1960. He wants to rehab the kitchen and wants to look at another house thats for sale this weekend. He said that he plans to rent our current space to his close friend who needs to move. 

I get redoing the house you live in or buying a new one. I don't really understand redoing to rent to his friend. That doesn't make financial sense to me. Where does he plan to get the money to redo the current house? For the down payment on the new house?

Renting is not as easy as collecting a check every month. And renting to a friend has a whole set of other complications. No one should be making decisions based on their friend needs a place to live.

Don't sign onto this until you have examined all of the financials. Things that sound good in theory can look quite different when all the details are examined. This should not be a 'he wants'  proposition. What is best for Clove needs to be considered. The decision has to be made on what is best for both of you.

CLove's picture

I think the more he thinks about it the more sense it will make to sell current for a tidy profit and put that into a better place.

He has a little bit of his inheritance and does a lot of work himself and pays cash to his friends with skills.

Yes, I will need to speak with a broker or lender to see the actual numbers.

Aniki-Moderator's picture

CLove, to me, this is you flip-flopping again on disengagement. The minute Backstabber/Munchkin plays nice, you're right back to square one. Tomorrow (or the next day or next week) B/M will do something to upset you and disengagement will be a Go once again. At 15, I'm sure that B/M has realized this and is playing you like a yo-yo as it suits her. Sad

tog redux's picture

Yep, this is what I thought too.  I think you are still hoping to have that good relationship with SD. Otherwise, you could just say, "Oh, that's too bad, but you are a smart girl, you'll figure it out," without going into a long discussion about how changing plans affects people in hope that she will understand you.  And next time she is nasty again, you will be upset. 

As for your DH, he knows he was an ass and now he's trying to make it up to you. 

CLove's picture

I did in effect tell her that she can discuss with her father and negotiate, effectively taking me out of any and all equations. Thats what I was thinking.

The door is closed for me to be engaged at the previous level. But we are being respectful.

I really think that he wants to pack it up and leave our old place. I do as well. Built in the 1960's the paper floor tiles he installed 4 years ago are now peeling. The carpets are old and frayed and yuk. The kitchen tile is falling and cracking off the boards and a sickly yellow color, as is the sink. The oven is small, the place needs some walls taken down.

If talking about buying another place gets him in gear to fix up the place like he promised, Im going to sit back and watch, and do my own thing. He needs to put some skin in the game as my mother sais. She bought it low and gave us a discounted sale price in lieu of a cash gift. He needs to put an equivalent in there, and so far we have a concrete path in the back and our main bathroom is painted with a tile floor, new toilet and new vanity. 

tog redux's picture

I'm respectful with SS21, but no way would I get into such a deep conversation about how upsetting it is when plans change, and think it was a teaching moment. At best, I'd say "yeah I hate that," and not get into all the times he did crappy stuff to us and how I felt. I just don't care anymore if he learns anything or if we have any kind of relationship beyond the superficial. You are still engaging with her in hope that she can learn something. 

Aniki-Moderator's picture

I honestly don't see that door as closed because you re-engage whenever B/M plays nice. Bet she knows that all she needs to do to suck you back in is play nice and you'll reciprocate. End result: she does not see any consequences for her crap behavior. If a friend treated you like B/M does - running hot and cold - how long would you remain friends? Disengage, go Gray Rock, and stay that course for a good 6 MONTHS. 

Livingoutloud's picture

I thought that was the house you two purchased from your parents, not his house from previous relationship. Might be confusing you with someone else. 

He makes no sense, if the house isn't his unilaterally, why is he making a decision to rent it to his buddy or renovate etc. That's too crazy. Does he call all the shots and if yes, why? Surely he cannot do that in 2021. Those times are long gone 

is he going to qualify for second mortgage??? DH and I make a good money but I doubt we could get a second mortgage to buy another house. How is he panning on tangling himself with two properties and two mortgages. The heck 

Wherever you go there you are. Buying houses or moving or renovating or going places isn't a solution. Crap follows people everywhere  

I don't see you disengaging. You still look up and print her grades (why?). Still engage in back and forth with SD and DH who picks who up and who goes where. Ignore all of that. Who cares. 

well bipolar disorder is a legitimate mental illness. A little bi-Polarism is just not a thing. I'd not diagnose him or worry about all that. I'd worry about my own life at this point. On top of everything dude wants to mess with your finances 

CLove's picture

He initially rented the house when SD15 was a toddler and Sd22 was about 11ish. He was with Toxic Troll Bm and it was here that he experienced the bad with her and the subsequent cheating and fighting and all that fun and games.

He moved her out, met me, my parents bought it and a year later we bought from them. 

He and I own it joint tenancy with rights of survivorship. We have been discussing rahabbing the place ever since we bought 2 years ago, but instead bought a boat, then two more and then 2 mountain bikes and a concrete path in the back. His idea is that his friend is looking for a place to rent and we can leverage our current place for something additional and better and leverage that over time to where we ultimately want to live. Meanwhile we start fresh so to speak without the bad energy from TT.

Together we make 6 figures and have ok credit scores. He sees his sister who bought a home for 700's and makes about the same and ok credit scores. So hes thinking that we can do the same amount.

I got her progress report only. I told her she should discuss and negotiate with her parents about changes in pick-up etc...not going to get in the middle. She engaged me in conversation as I was sitting there. It mattered not what happened as far as Im concerned.

I should not have made that comment. Manic might better describe the way he acted. Like "Im going to do this new floor NOW..." After sitting in his chair for over a year not doing anything.

So if all this talk about buying houses and stuff gets him going on the rehabs we had planned great. Im just not going to get swept into something that is over our heads.

Livingoutloud's picture

How strange he bought his own house back.

By 6 figures do you mean close to a mil or more like 100k? 6 figures isn't a ton of money if it's say  150k and is a lot of money if it's 900k. I don't know how people qualify for this kind of mortgages. Maybe if they put a ton down. We have perfect (DH) or very good credit score (mine) and make a decent money. Or so we think. We'd never ever qualify for 700k house. Or two houses! Maybe because we didn't  have a lot of assets when we bought a house together? All our savings are in retirement/pension plans or went on to raising three kids collectively or put ourselves through schools couple of rounds.

We might be doing something wrong because I am just not fully grasping how people are buying such expensive houses or more than one house and they don't sound that rich. How would mortgage company qualify them?

progress report is grades! DH csn look them up if he cares. But again I digress 



CLove's picture

He was renting from an elderly person who desperately wanted to cash out and sell to him, but he was never in the position to buy.

We are in low 100,000.

Im thinking its another pie in the sky idea. We shall see where it all goes.

Livingoutloud's picture

How and why people with combined income of only low 100s and in a high cost of living state are considering buying houses for 600k? Planning on winning a lottery maybe. I think you are extremely lucky to own the house worth 300k. Here you'd not be approved  for even that mortgage and I am in a much lower cost of living state (although we are in the expensive county).

Your DH should count his blessings that he ended up owning the house, and the one that now costs 500k, he was lucky being able to buy it cheaper than the market. 

I'd tell him that if you two can afford it you could renovate and remodel the house you already have. But I'd not entertain  any other crazy ideas of buying something else and wouldn't encourage such craziness. He is ordering champagne on a beer budget. You are a better person than me for sure, I'd laugh if my DH came up with this nonsense. 
you need to get some balls girl. Don't let them steamroll you. DH and SDs. Stop being meak. It's good to be nice but there's such thing as being "too nice". You are being totally run over by these people. 

Livingoutloud's picture

I also kind of think now that the reason you want so much control over things pertained to SD: her grades, her job prospects, her day to day life etc is because you have no control in other aspects of your life.

You are willing to sit on a sidewalk and just "watch and see where it goes" in extremely important aspects of your life that are entirely your business like your property and finances, when you should be 100% engaged and involved and very much have a ton of control (at the very least 50%).

Yet you are not willing just sit and watch and want to be in control of things that aren't up to you and to some degree aren't your business like every little thing about SD.

It's not uncommon for people to become preoccupied with one aspect of their life if they are otherwise completely powerless in the rest of their life. You don't seem to be "in charge" kind of person in your marriage but you want to be in charge of things pertained to SD, possibly because you can't be in charge of anything else, certainly nothing pertaining to your DH.  He is free to do anything pretty much, go anywhere, do anything, decide on everything, say anything etc. 

I really really think a good therapist could help you sort it out. 

JRI's picture

You feel like nothing has changed, but I think they have.  The dance of intimacy -your DH is responding to your disengagement.  As you move away, he's coming closer.  Will these housing plans work out?  Who knows but it brings you two closer as you discuss them.  (Spoiler alert:  as men age, their desire and capacity to handle dyi projects drops).  That's not the point - you guys discussing this project, researching, driving around - that's the point.  Or, as my counselor used to urge, "JRI, I don't care if its just a walk down the street, more one-on-one time with DH".

Regarding Munchkin, I've always thought she's just exhibiting typical teenage SD behavior.  I realize my bar might be pitifully low (SD60) but my own BD did her share of lying, disrespect, betrayal and thoughtlessness, as I did myself.

But the important change is DH.  These kids are passing  ships in the night, she'll soon be moving toward her own life, its already starting.  But you and DH, thats your long-time thing.  Sounds good!

CLove's picture

Great point. "A Dance of Intimacy". I was just thinking "absence makes the heart grow fonder". Im changing up the routine. Expanding my world, while his stays the same.

He was much happier and we were on the same page and excited about the same thing and making plans. And that seems to be addictive to him. He gets a little manic with excitement and then fizzles out. When we redid the two bathrooms from scratch he mostly did the demolishoning and had his friends do the actual building part. And I shopped for flooring and paint. It was FUN. And we havent had much fun together recently.

About Sd15. Well maybe Im being too harsh with too-high expectations, but I lately have been redirecting my expectations to Husband.

He actually asked me "so what do your steptalkers think about you wanting to be in on the scheduling?"

JRI's picture

It's not important  whether you actually go thru with these housing plans.  It's important that you do something together.   Some folks, this is their thing, like my BD and SIL.  They are always talking about or doing some kind of project at their house, supposedly to get ready to move (it's been over 2 years of this prep now).  Typing this, I realize now that's their "thing" to do together,

So, ideally, you have your work, you have your hiking and hobby things and you have your projects with DH.  That doesnt leave much time to over-engage with his kids.  

How did you answer his question, "Well, DH, they all think I should be consulted about the scheduling because it impacts me.  What do you think?" The point is to get him talking when you guys arent angry.

Gimlet's picture

Not sure why your husband gets to decide that he's going to rent your home to his friend and announces it to you?    So what, he wants to play the hero to his friend by fixing up your house and renting it out and then buying in this crazy market?  Has he even done the preliminary math on that one?

How is that "fixing" anything?  That sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.

And this: Husband saw her being upset, and all he had to do was say "your mother is picking you up because Ive had a few drinks, and I dont want you to beupset, it make me upset when you act upset, so please try to understand."  is heaping his emotions on her.  Don't be upset because you'll upset daddy, yet he's cool with it when it's targeted at you.

he said "there is no more joy here and in my life there is no joy".

Ugh. Cry me a river, once again he's the victim and you get to choose aggressor or rescuer as usual.

CLove's picture

I wasnt sure if that was the right thing for him to say or not to skid. It didnt FEEL right, I just couldnt put my finger on it...the why of wrongness.

Thats his typical thing that he sais to her to keep Pouty McPouterson in check. Just not for me.

Hes kind of jumping the gun with respect to renting to this friend. I know this guy but really dont want to be his landlady any time soon. 

Hes thinking by keeping current house we can afford bigger and better down the road with the two properties combined.

Our area is currently selling at 700 minimum. Where we want to live eventually...on the coast...700-800. So keeping the two would give us leverage to get into that someday.

He DOES play victim doesnt he? We have so much that is great. A sunset, and its teeth pulling to get him outside to watch it with me. Our home is comfy and cozy and suddenly rather than fix up some major things and build more equity he wants to bend over backwards and shoot off into a house we probably cannot afford.

At any rate, if this is what it takes to get him out of his chair and get his debit card out, then so be it, Ill be on the trails...