Update Shit Hit The Fan with SS13 - Need Help
I posted a blog last week about DH finding messages from SS13 to BM and GF, mocking us and DD and the stuff he has at our house. DH handled it really well, not citing that we know about the messages, but setting clear expectations for SS and his demonstration of love, respect, and compassion.
I ended up sick last night and went to bed at 8 p.m. This morning, DH pulls me aside and said there were more messages. SS texted BM and GF yesterday claiming that he "caught me glancing at his phone over his shoulder, trying to see his passcode and he needs it reset." When he texted BM and GF this, I was in the other room working, and hadn't gotten up from the computer for several hours. The only time DH has checked the phone is at night, long after SS has gone to bed. But yet, whenever I'm in the kitchen (where DH makes him keep the phone), he's all jumpy about it. I can't cook, unload the dishwasher, or do anything in the kitchen without him standing near me like I'm snooping. This was fabricated. BM and GF then asked SS to call them to talk about it. SS said he couldn't because DH is "making him" take all calls in the living room and we are all home so he doesn't feel safe to speak. BM said she would be emailing DH to address our requirement of having calls in the living room, to which SS asked her to wait until he goes back to BM's because he doesn't feel comfortable with us. So we know this will hit the fan when SS leaves.
DH never once told SS to take all calls in the living room. During DH's conversation, he highlighted that it's ironic that when we call SS at BM and GF's house, he is always in their living room or eating dinner in the kitchen, right next to BM and GF, but in our house, when they call, he runs and hides in his bedroom or outside. DH told SS that that makes him believe SS is saying stuff he doesn't want us to know or stuff that isn't true to cause drama. DH told him point blank, if SS is doing that for that reason, he needs to think about why. Nowhere in the conversation was he told to take calls in the living room.
I told DH that I was leaving. I took DD3 and left to my parents house before SS woke up and I'm not sure if/when I'm going home, but I told DH that I will not be in SS' presence to protect myself from additional allegations. I packed enough to stay away for as long as it takes and DH knows this. I guess SS asked where DD and I were this morning and DH just said "out." I also told DH that I was not okay with SS being alone in the house if DH had to go to the office tomorrow. Lord knows how much snooping SS could accomplish in 8 hours unsupervised.
I am ready to blow it all up and make DH tell SS everything and drive SS home today. If BM emailed DH freaking out, he responds that he will not engage in false allegations against his family and he will not allow SS to play the triangulation game and then stop responding. I am fine if SS never visits again.
DH is at a loss for how to handle this. If he tells SS that DH knows the passcode, could there be issues because legally, communication between kids and their other parent is protected by the courts, or is he safe because he is monitoring it as a legal parent? DH knows if he blows this up, SS likely won't visit again and BM will raise holy hell, so I think he is scared of that possibility too, but at the same point, we can't allow SS to be a tiny terrorist in our home for the next 5 years because he knows he can play BM and she won't ever believe DH and I refuse to be around SS again. I see the writing on the wall that SS visits are rapidly ending and I'm okay with it. DH isn't ready to think about that and is in full blown denial.
What was your turning point with skids where the games crossed the line and how did it end up? I don't see this ending any other way but WW3 but we don't know how to handle this with minimal fallout.
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Comments
To be honest.. if things are
To be honest.. if things are going to go south regarding this stuff.. might as well get to have a say with SS about his duplicitous behavior.
I think your DH needs to have a Come to Jesus meeting with the kid.
He needs to hear that yeah.. we know that you are stabbing us in the back with your mom and GF. That he is not a baby and that if he has a problem with how he is parented in his father's home, then he needs to go to his father. Not run back to his mommy (and yes.. I would make sure SS hears the kind of terms that clearly show how dissappointed your DH is in his immaturity and crappy attitude..)
So DH knows the passcode.. he hasn't prevented his son from communicating with mom.. he is monitoring his minor child's electronic device while he is in his home and under his supervision and control. THAT isn't wrong.
Son needs to be called out on his lies. So, son, you claim that wife was looking over your shoulder when she hadn't left her desk for hours? Why are you lying to your mother about things here.
And the various other lies he has told should be brought to light in this conversation.
His son needs to hear that his dad is dissappointed that he is so ungrateful for all the effort that he and you have put into him having a good visit.
That his negative complaints about the household and it's members is also very dissappointing... and uncalled for and that the kind of person who meanly gossips about others like that is pretty darn low.. and gosh SS.. I thought you were better than that..
What do you have to say for yourself?
I damn well would consider cutting his visit short as a result.. tell the kid.. I love you as my son.. but hate the person you are becoming..
The reason I see for going
The reason I see for going ahead and baring SS's butt..
It sounds like you will all be dealing with a dust up and pile of crap.. no matter what you do.
So, might as well pick an option that gives an opportunity to call SS out on his crap and let him know that we know.. we know buddy.. and we aren't happy...
I think after DH's talk with SS that SS figured out DH had the
I think after DH's talk with SS that SS figured out that DH had the code to his phone, or was pretty sure he had it. Because he has to run to Mommy for everything, he chose to blame it on you, knowing that would make BM happy. He doesn't want BM to confront DH while he is there, because he knows DH will then call SS out on his lies.
I am torn on DH coming clean about the code. I do think of DH decides to tell SS everything that he should hold off until closer to when he leaves, that way DH can continue to monitor the phone and see what else happens.
I am so sorry this has happened. I know how much you cared about SS and how hard you have tried to make it all work. Teenagers do really dumb and hurtful things all on their own, and in this case it is compounded because BM is such an awful person. I think you are smart to stay away for awhile.
I’m sorry to hear this and
I’m sorry to hear this and especially being pregnant doesn’t help with emotions. I can say for me when things blew up with Spawn was when she was plotting with Meth Mouth to take him back to court on a bunch of made-up allegations of abuse on our part (DH and myself) and Spawn was fully on board to comply. We only found out because Spawn ran her mouth to a family friends’ daughter who then told us, and after that I was done. I sat down with Spawn and DH and told her flat out I wasn’t going to be lied about anymore to suit her and Meth Mouth’s narrative that we were abusive people; I told her from that day forward I was disengaged, and she and DH could figure it out. I also let her know if she ever wanted to sit down and really talk (no lies or bullshit) I would be willing. Spawn was16 at that time. After that it was like she was a ghost in the house, we never spoke again and she ended up moving out a year later to live with her maternal grandmother.
As soon as mine had phones,
As soon as mine had phones, they would take pictures and record us and send it to their little group chats to complain or make us look bad.
How I found out is because after being told by my husband and the steps that they don't like when I ask them to not do something because I'm rude (supposedly although I would do my best to be super sweet and ask it in a super nice manner), I just started writing signs around the house like "please close cabinets" or "please flush" or "do not put your shoes/feet on the couch, thank you"...
They took pics of that and showed it to BM2 who complained to DH that I was treating them like babies by putting signs up and that they already know what to do and only need to be told once
Another time SS then 15 thought I wasn't seeing him but he was recording me multiple times telling him not to do something. Thankfully I never said anything bad or raised my voice. Once he had called a school mate a homophobic slur (completely unprovoked btw the kid was just walking in the hallway and he yelled at him "f**") and was suspended and I gave him a long lecture about why the use of slurs isn't appropriate and there is no reason to insult ppl unprovoked and I even used literary sources to educate him on it...Instead of listening, he was recording me the whole time expecting me to yell at him or say something bad so he could share with BM and claim I'm "abusive" to him
I have always known that steps are a window to BMs to look into your house so I always made sure to have a clean home and perfect areas for them to sleep and sufficient food but even so I knew everything would be repeated (what they ate, how the house looked, what me and their father might have said or done between us, who came over, etc)...
Once the phones and electronics were given, I had no doubt that they would be used for more spying and impeding on my privacy and I wasn't wrong lol
Everyone who has steps should know that as soon as they leave your house, they talk shit about you to their BMs and now with phones, they don't even have to wait until they go back, they can live stream from your own living room and give BMs live commentary on-site like a 24/7 live news channel
I have always made sure that
I have always made sure that our house is the picture of perfection, knowing it all goes back to BMs. Fridge is fully stocked, clothes all fit, house is spotless, etc. Its frickin exhausting to have to fake perfection to prevent issues and the funny thing is, the issues still happen, like SS claiming that we bought him a toddler brand of shirt. It just never ends.
I just want peace to live my life with my husband and my kids without this constant high school drama caused by BM and GF and their full blown dysfunction. If that means SS never visits again, so be it. I am so over this.
I know how you feel. I did it
I know how you feel. I did it for 10years. Every visit would require meticulous preparation. Sometimes after a long week of work, there was no way of kicking your feet up and relaxing at a slow pace because your house has to be impeccable by Friday 6pm and groceries and meals planned by the weekend...My husband would never understand and claim that i was "overthinking" and the children don't report to their BMs until he experienced it himself years later...
Unfortunately for you there won't be any peace. You might limit the use of phone/electronics but he will still be able to report in details verbally after his visits or he will use email/face time to chat to them directly without a phone.
The solution I found is similar to yours. I started becoming absent (I got a second job and filled the weekends that they were visiting with stuff to do out of the home - even sometimes fake stuff and I would just drive and park somewhere and take a nap lol). I would leave the house spotless and ready for them but I would be gone all day and only back in time for dinner which I would sometimes cook or sometimes order. On the holidays that they were around longer, it was more difficult but I still tried to be gone most of the time...While I was gone, I would always lock my bedroom and bathroom up. Everything else in common areas wasn't that important or worth looking through. I kept the mailbox key with me and ensured no mail was left behind. Electronics were never shared (mine would remain in my room) and they had their own accounts except for Netflix which was their father's.
The more absent you are, the harder it will be to track you or expose your privacy. It's exhausting mentally and physically tho...Im sure it would be even harder for you since you have small children and therefore less freedom to make up stuff to get out of the home. I hope and pray this issue gets resolved soon for you once your SS is fully PAS'd out (I give it two more years and he will stop visiting)
Update: As mentioned earlier,
Update: As mentioned earlier, I left the house and I've been gone all afternoon. DH called me and said that he did plenty of research and spoke to our attorney, devising a plan to handle this.
We were correct. Communication, especially text messages, between a parent and child are protected in the eyes of the court. What can occur is if DH admits to it, BM can file a cease and desist with the courts against DH and the courts can modify the current order to state that the phone be required in our home and that DH cannot access it or stop it. Our attorney said he has seen this done far too many times. DH and our attorney decided the best course of action is to continue this visit as normal, and when BM emails DH after the visit (which she already told SS she was going to do), blowing up, refute all of her claims and blatantly state that they are false allegations. BM has no proof that DH accessed anything. The attorney said then, respond to BM, stating to prevent future allegations pertaining to the phone, the phone is no longer permitted in our home on visits. BM can then coordinate communication with SS through DH, as they have always done before SS had a phone and as DH does with SS on their time. Our attorney then said if/when SS comes back at Christmas, it can be addressed then with SS and everything can be laid out clearly based on BM's email.
I still plan to be scarce with DD for the remainder of this visit. DH said he will make up reasons as to why - I'm helping family, went to visit a friend for a while, etc. DH has also cancelled all fun events that we had planned for the remainder of SS' 2 weeks with us. We were supposed to go visit family this weekend out of town and SS is super excited. DH called them and cancelled this morning, told SS they were sick and had to cancel. He isn't rewarding bad behavior and is totally okay with SS staring at 4 walls for the next few weeks. DH said it'll also be interesting to see how eager SS is to return if he knows his visits are no longer centered around vacations, gifts, etc.
So great that DH consulted his attorney!
So great that DH consulted his attorney! Your plans sounds like the best way to handle this situation. Again, I'm so sorry you are having to deal with this after all you have done.
This is awful and, sadly, it
This is awful and, sadly, it seems SS is "all in" with the toxicity. I don't think this is going to get better, so Im hoping that SS's no-fun time with you all this time leads to him not wanting to visit again. And it'd be great if your DH would be onboard with that.
For most of our marriage, DH has seen his kids outside of our house because of the same "can't win" situation in our home, including the spying, behind the back talk, reports to mommy,, and general rudeness. We expected that they would mature and change, and that didn't happen.
Hi Castle…
I am mostly, at this point in my life, a watcher here. My stepadults have been estranged and out of our lives for several years. I could not help but respond to this.
I have followed your story and it is a sunk to the literal bottom situation. These people, all three, are never going to change sadly. You have done more than is deserved for your stepson. I say blow it up, be honest, and let what is going to happen anyway just happen sooner and get on with living. He and they need to know you guys know.
It sounds like you and your husband have a beautiful little family. Spend your important time peacefully loving and nuturing it. There is no more for you to do here. You certainly do not need this super toxic stress during your pregnancy.
Go live well
I came home this evening per
I came home this evening per the attorney's advice to keep things normal but damn is it super awkward. SS seems off like he knows something is up but he can't figure out what. DH is doing everything so I don't have to but damn.
Honestly I'd tell SS to put
Honestly I'd have DH tell SS to put the phone away, NOW. Your DH should text BM NOW that all communication goes through him. Make up some reason that he's always on his cell and similar to video games, you're setting it aside for the remainder of the visit. Moving forward do not allow the phone in your house. This way you're punishing behavior around the phone without naming it directly.
Things changed for me once I had bios of my own. I would not sacrifice my children's happiness and wellbeing to appease an entitled disrespectful kid and a BM who wished me dead.
Or just blow it up! Screw it show the texts to anyone who will see them because at this point it's a done deal.... if the court insists the phone come to your house with SS then neither come to your house. Put an end to the games once and for all on your terms (for once) and blow it all up. At the end of the day you'd be expiosing the truth--- seems good enough a reason for me.
The issue is that SS isn't on
The issue is that SS isn't on it barely at all, but the five minutes here or there is highly effective for PAS.
We are following DH's attorney's advice as outlined above. The phone will not come back next visit (December) and if they refuse to send him without it, SS won't be visiting either.
Play grand master chess. He visits, they send him with the phone
at the airport when you pick him up or DH picks him up, the phone goes in an express pouch and gets mailed back to BM immediately. End of problem.
If they withhold the SKid from visitation, smack BM with a contempt motion for violating the CO and add on a charge of interference in the parent child relationship.
This kid has zero chance if he is not kept abreast of the full facts and truth in an age appropriate manner. Particularly with the harpy tag team he is raised nearly full time by.
Brilliant!
Brilliant!
Now we know why it's awkward
Now we know why it's awkward with SS. SS phone kept dinging so DH went to check it while SS was in the shower. The passcode has been changed, which could only be done remotely by BM or GF, due to parental controls. I'm sure SS is freaking out that DH and I will realize, which is why he is acting weird today. DH said if we act normal and like we don't realize it's changed, it will make SS feel crazy because he was so paranoid we knew and were snooping.
DH also googled and the phone won't notify BM and GF that a wrong passcode was entered so they'll never know. SS asked me to make my "special popcorn" tonight for him. I told him I was tired and went to bed. DH made it and SS said "but it's not as good as CastleJJs." Oh well buddy, you're about to find a lot of things aren't as good as mine.
IMHO, this is not a discussion, this is a telling.
SS needs clarity that he is a child, his lies and manipulation are unacceptable. he abides by the standards of behavior and standards of performance in the home, he gets no say in viistation and any time BM fails to deliver SS per the CO that BM will have contempt of court charges filed against her so if SS does not want to see mommy arrested and standing in front of a judge that he had better make sure he visits per the schedule.
We made this clear with SS at about the same age that your SS is. It was no secret, SS had been kept abreast of the facts, the CO, etc, etc, etc... in an age appropriate manner as the SpermClan rolled out their manipulations. SS knew that they were full of shit, liars, manipulators, as soon as they started that crap. As he aged through the 16 years of the CO, he was more immersed in the facts.
When he would return home from a SpermLand visitation with the crap the SpermGrandHag had loaced him up with we would counter her crap with the facts, reviews of the Judges orders, and any and ever other documented fact, rule, regulation, etc, etc, etc... that bared the oppositions asses.
One of the discussions was to state clearly that the CO stipulated what is stipulated, custody was what is was, visitation was what it was, and that it would remain that way until a court changed following a very long, expensive, and painful process that would highlight the lies SS had been told. We did not demonize them, we did not badmouth them, the facts are the facts. They are neither good, nor are they bad.
A COD kid needs the facts and if that includes highlighting the lies and manipulations of one side or the other, so be it.
IMHO of course.
I'm sorry. I remember many
I'm sorry. I remember many times where my SDs hurt me in exactly the same way. There was a point, when they were about 13 and 15 that I stopped doing anything "extra" for them at all because no matter how much I did for them, they would act happy and sweet to my face, but turn around and say the most vile things about me to BM. I never made a big announcement or anything, just informed their dad that I wasn't going to do anything besides the most basic of "mom" stuff for them when they were in our home. They definitely noticed, and it kind of rocked their world since I'd been pouring all my energy into them since they were 2 and 4.
We went on like that for years and had a very surface level relationship. I don't regret it at all, it was so much easier on my heart when I'd find out that they'd said something crazy about me to BM. Through my own therapy I came to understand that this was likely a way for them to protect/insulate themselves from BM's toxicity. I get it, but it still hurt like hell.
OSD started intense therapy when she was about 18 and went on a mood stabilizer at that time. About a year later, after a stay at an inpatient treatment facility, she came to me with a genuine apology and request to make amends. YSD took a bit longer, but around the time she was 18, she also started reaching out to me more and thanking me often for everything I'd done for her throughout her life. She never directly apologized like OSD did, but that's consistent with her personality in general and her actions have shown me that she wants to make things right. They're 21 and 19 now, and our relationship is better and more real than it's ever been over the 17 years I've known them. I really think what changed was them moving out of BM's home and away from her toxic influence. They came to see the truth, and then being exposed to more people at university, I think they realized that BM was not a healthy mother figure, but I was.
Anyway, I know we're the exception to the norm, it seems like for a lot of people once those bridges are burned with stepkids in the teen years, there's no coming back from it. But maybe (hopefully) your SS will eventually realize what a shit he's being, and recognize how well you've always cared for him. It doesn't help now, because it's so painful, I know. But time can heal a lot.
I'm So Sorry
You and your DH have done everything possible to combat the PAS but as we all know, PAS is almost always NOT beatable. And your SS's age is where it gets perfected...those early teen years when kids are pushing boundaries and will migrate to the "easy" parent. Regardless, he knows what he's doing and this is where you MUST protect yourself, your children and your marriage. You are pregnant and do NOT need this stress.
This is the situation most dads get put in when PAS is so heavy...litereally loosing a child. It's heartbreaking but your DH's hands are tied. Glad he talked with the attorney and ya'll have a plan in place. If SS doesn't return at Christmas, you will have your answers. Until then, get through these two weeks, then the crazy email. After that, be purposeful in living your life with DH, happy and content. Hugs, Castle...again, I'm so sorry that you have to walk this journey.
I'm so sorry. From your blogs
I'm so sorry. From your blogs, you have tried. Really tried hard with SS. I don't blame you at all for your feelings. The positives are the fact that (thank goodness) SS and BM/GF live so far away and that your DH is handling this as well as humanly possible. He seems to be a logical person who truly sees things as they are and has your back. It sucks that you are being made the scapegoat. Keep your head up and keep shining as the best mom/wife/person you can be. This visit will end and he will be shipped back across the country to live in the toxic stew that is his life. You and your DH have tried to help him as best you can.