Update on SD's situation
Ok, so I'm starting a fresh blog because Janice was driven to tears from wading through the 50+ responses to get to the new posts! ;o)
I was very upset that SD was never admitted to the psychiatric hospital on Tuesday night, but now I have a little more information so I'm beginning to understand.
SD was saying that she "didn't feel safe" in her mother's home, and given that she can't flat-out go against her mother or choose her father over her mother, she said she wouldn't feel safe in our home either. So the therapist (who I will refer to as TT - "the therapist" - from now on) said that the safest place for her would be the hospital.
TT actually said that the hospital would not be pleasant, that it would be a long time getting admitted, that staying overnight in a hospital is no fun, etc which sounds to me like she was trying to talk SD out of it. Maybe TT really didn't think it "medically necessary"? Maybe it was just an option since they were at an impasse? Given that she didn't insist when BM objected, I will just accept that TT knows what she's doing and she is the MD, not me.
My gut feeling is that SD is not truly suicidal, just desperately crying out for help, because if she were suicidal, TT would have taken her to the hospital herself. SD is certainly having suicidal ideation which is very serious, but I don't think that she will actually throw herself out the window.
My heart goes out to this little girl. There she is, screaming "I want to die!!!!! I'm going crazy!!" because her mother drives her to this state, but she is so fiercely loyal to her, she can't even take the "escape routes" available to her. She could have come to our house or she could have gone to the hospital, but knowing her mother did not accept either of these solutions, she would not do either of them. BM refused to go with SD to the hospital, she even disappeared for an hour when TT recommended going and SD was just a wreck during this time - "Where's my mommy? I can't go to the hospital without her! Why won't she come with me? Where did she go? I can't do this!
Even if/when the court rules that SD live with us, I fear her reaction. She will never be able to leave her mother. How are we going to do this?
- Caitlin's blog
- Log in or register to post comments
Comments
I think that is what it was too...
TT didn't feel that SD is really suicidal, hence the hospital would have been not the right choice probably, however, it does confuse me a little since so many are too slow to react to any reactions, until it's too late. It was as a means for attention.
Is SD on medication? There are substantial reports regarding some of the psy meds that induce suicidal ideation- especially in younger people, I think mainly because they have a whole whopping range of new emotions that they are not capable to deal with yet, but I don't know for sure. You may just want to keep a watch out for that. Make sure it's all documented throughly, which I'm sure the TT will do.
First and foremost, take a deep breath. Take one step at a time. It will be a long road, but I think it will be best that everyone attends therapy in this case. If you get custody, you certainly should continue as much as you can the sessions already established... which I know you will, but you and your fiance should also attend separate family counseling too, because the stress levels will go through the roof. I think it's best for this child that she does slowly be weaned from her mother. Easier said than done, I understand.
So, for now, try to remain calm, so as not to agitate the issue for yourself or anyone else. Instead, be the rock and support. My grandpa always told me... if you can not fix the problem immediately right now, don't worry about it until you can. So, one step in front of the other. Take a bubble bath- Shoot if I were there, I'd give you a basket full of bubbles, soaps, bath gels, scrubbies, and fuzzy soft stuff! ;~)
SD is on Luvox
Do you think that the Luvox could possibly be contributing to her suicidal ideation? Wow. This is something we will definitely bring up with TT. She's been on it almost a year now. Once last summer, after about 5 months on the drug, SD shared with her dad a weird story about a little girl who jumped off a tall building to escape and then everything was ok. This was the first evidence of her suicidal ideation. This is some scary shit. My fiance told TT right after SD told that story, so she is aware of this.
The saddest part is, SD had been doing so well until we announced in November that we're having another baby. Things had been relatively quiet from her mother until we told her and then WHAM! She just started all her shenanigans again with gusto. The stress on SD is too much. She can't cope with her mother's terrible behavior. And her mother is so sick, that she doesn't see that SHE is the cause of all this turmoil. She continues to blame us and hurl horrible nonsensical accusations at us. She just doesn't get it. She is hurting her own child, making her sick even, and she goes to bed at night with a clear conscience?! She pats herself on the back at what a good job she is doing, "protecting" her daughter from her terrible father. She's delusional!
For now, I will just take a deep breath, let all BM's crap roll off my back, remain calm and do everything I can to support my fiance and get the ball rolling on retaining a lawyer and filing for custody. (While we're at it, we'll close this damn divorce!) Oh, and therapy for ALL is definitely on the agenda.
I'm not sure if Luvox is...
but I know that Prozac, Paxil, Lexapro, Zoloft and some other ones, but I don't remember...
Luvox is a fluvoxamine maleate ingredient. I think it is mainly given for OCD. But I'm no expert. It's a SSRI (selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor). http://www.mentalhealth.com/drug/p30-l05.html
Prozac is a fluoxetine hydrochloride ingredient. It too is a SSRI. I'm sure that one is a derivative of the other but I don't know which one is what.
There are numerous complaints, reports and some court cases regarding a controversy regarding Prozac and other antidepressants (SSRI's and antidepressants of related classes) due to findings of increased suicidal tendency in some children and adolescents on the drugs.
But you must understand that SI is not an accurate indicator for suicide.
http://www.healthy.net/scr/news.asp?Id=8341
http://www.levinlaw.com/PracticeAreas/Paxil.asp
Let me add...
I certainly would ask the TT about it, but don't panic either! Chances are that she will say, yes it's rare, not to worry, yata yata yata... but it's note worthy just the same. But still always be cautious when taking a medication regardless if it's just aspirin. You should ALWAYS speak to a pharmacist, not just a doctor, regarding prescribed medications.
I don't know
It seems to me that there is an increased incidence of suicide in patients taking these drugs because they are depressed or otherwise mentally ill to begin with. (Although the articles will lead you to believe that they weren't contemplating suicide until they were on the drugs, so the drugs caused it.)
Thanks for the info. We will talk to TT about it and go from there.
Oh, yes, I agree with you
but it was all I could find at the moment. Just research it a little more and talking to the TT will probably certainly help.
Thanks!
I appreciate the hugs!
I know as hard as it's been already, we haven't seen the worst of it. Yes, SD's only 11. Wait till she becomes a teenager and those hormones start screwing with her on top of what her mother does to make her insane! She will NOT be able to handle the stress.
Her dad and I will be there for her, and her younger siblings too. She sure does love coming to our house. And every time, she begs to stay an hour or two longer. The poor thing just doesn't want to go back to the insanity.
Quite understandable. I
Quite understandable. I just feel for you. Just breath... count to 10 backwards, whatever... but you WILL get through this. ;~)
BM is being super cooperative
Well, after this whole ordeal, I guess BM realized the real danger that she could have custody taken away so she's on her best behavior. In fact, she's pulled a complete 180.
SD called last night to tell her dad on her day, that she's doing well, etc. and then she passed the phone off to her mom so that she could also share with him how SD's doing, just to keep him posted after such a scary ordeal. The conversation was civil, like two normal parents having a discussion about the best interests of their child - you know, like it should be.
I don't know how to convey this to you, but THIS IS WEIRD. She has NEVER been forthcoming with us about SD's welfare. She thinks she's the only parent, that dad is nothing more than her kid's twice a month playmate, that she doesn't need to consult him on anything regarding her child. She does all this, even though they have shared legal custody. What's more, she does not allow SD to call her dad, she does not take phone calls from dad for SD, she "misplaces" SD's cell phone we got her, she just does everything in her power to shut him out of her daily life.
So now that she's all buddy-buddy and cooperative, it gets me worried! What has she got up her sleeve? I have a feeling she's working with him for now because she feels she's "won" in that I wasn't at all involved in this fiasco. She loves to exclude me, and boy was I excluded on this one. So, as soon as I show up for a family therapy session, we'll be back to her old ways.
I'll let you know if my predictions are accurate.
I think she may be thinking
UH oh they may have some legal grounds to try and take "K" away from me. Its not your fault or this babies fault your SD is acting this way, she is acting out because her mom is like a complete wacko.. If she did come live with you and "HUBBY" she might snap out of everything and find some happiness, she has to much on her shoulders for being so young. her mom has mental issues and uses her daughter as her sound board when in all reality she is damamging her. Her mom is very bitter, unhappy in her own life and is really just letting that trickle down into her daughter.. Who will always remember the older she gets the time she had a melt down and will realise on her own it had everything to do with the one person who is suppose to protect and care for her.. HER MOM..
Caitlyn I wish you the strength and love to get thru all of us. And the strength that this will make you and your "HUBBY" stronger..
Love, Happy
My thoughts exactly
I couldn't have said it better!
And thanks for the wishes of strength and love - we've got lots of that between "hubby" and me, so we'll get through this!
What's that disease
where mothers create illnesses for their children because they thrive on the drama and need the gratification that comes from appearing to be supermom? God, I'm having brainfreeze, I can't remember the term, but it has something to do with making a child sick to get attention for herself. It was something "by proxy." That's the only part I can remember, the "by proxy" part. It's some kind of syndrome. Anyway, whatever it is, it almost sounds like that's what this mother is doing. Mom is creating drama so that child gets sick, whether mentally or physically, then mom basks in the glow of all the attention. She's gotten a pretty big "fix" after this latest episode, so that might make her seem a little more cooperative for the time being. But what happens the next time she needs a drama fix?
~ Anne ~
Munchausen Syndrome by proxy (MBPS)
Here's more on it...
http://www.kidshealth.org/parent/system/ill/munchausen.html
I'm not certain if this is really related to Caitlyn's situation, but could be. I think more that the mother has some issues, such as bipolar, or ocd, or something on that nature. BM sounds way too erratic for that.
For one thing in MBPS, the parent or caregiver usually is alll for the doctors, and facilities, in fact, they are often the ones to push for further tests, exams, etc. So taking SD to the hospital would have been on top of her list to do. She would want her to go so that she could be 'reassured' that there is nothing wrong with SD. They are also usually very calm, and it doesn't sound like BM is ever really calm... until now, unfortunately...LOL.
LOL - nope, that doesn't sound like BM at all!
Calm? Ha!
Yes, BM is bipolar, so that explains her erratic behavior. Just given her aversion to taking SD to the hospital for this makes me think that it's probably not MBPS.
RE:
Wow, that is a perfect description of BM in my situation. She constantly has SS in the doctor's office. The kid has bags full of medications that he takes. BF and I were wondering if he would notice a real difference if he stopped taking all the meds. The weird thing is that she takes him to the doctor if he farts, but she neglects him in every other way.
After I originally wrote this reply, I went to the MBP website and read it. It's scary how perfectly it describes BM and her actions toward and about SS...
*~So sayeth Nymh~*
I'll let you know...
it can be very hard to prove.
Does he see the same doctor all the time, or is it one of those you get who you get type offices and all they do is read the file?
It is something that I would really consider researching though. Use the excuse that you are just 'eliminating' your avenues and trying to 'rule' out it's possibilities.
RE:
He sees several different doctors for several different things. The thing that really stood out to me was that BM is constantly using SS's "ailments" and multiple doctor visits as excuses to do or not do certain things. She filed incompletes on all of her courses for the past semester and used SS's medical problems as her excuse. Of course the professors are all sympathetic and "Oh I'm so sorry..." which gives her exactly what she wants. The first thing that she tells someone about herself is that she has a son who has "special needs" and has lots of medical problems. Then they hear all about his medical history and exactly how "hard" it makes things on her. He is not a special needs child!!
I am definitely going to do more research on this. It seems difficult to prove and in our small town I don't know if it would even help. I think the most difficult part of all would actually be finding someone to evaluate the situation who knows enough about the disorder, and getting BM to let them evaluate her. Is there a way that I could speak to a counselor or psychiatrist or doctor about the situation and get their opinion? Something that scares me is that BM fits every single one of the "red flags" and signs that are on that site. The worst part is that she does have an extensive knowledge of medicine, and has had education in psychology. I'm afraid that even if we DID somehow get an evaluation on her, she'd just know all the right answers to get herself deemed "sane" and it wouldn't do any good!
*~So sayeth Nymh~*
Well, one thing
you do document everything don't you?
You could try to speak to a psychiatrist and get their opinion on it. I would also speak to a lawyer who is educated in psychological disorders. You really need a lot of paper trail in this case, and it might be possible to contact the child's primary care physician and just ask them... do you think that it's possible for BM to have MBPS? They may dismiss it, but at least you may be able to get some wheels turning.
Another thing to do instead, is perhaps it's time to take the child to an unbiased physician on your own, with all the medications in hand, request copies of SS's medical record from all the doctor's he's visited and go get a 'second' opinion. Stick with ONE physician about it too, and each time, he supposedly has an aliment, take him in to see your doctor for an evaluation and have him confirm or deny if anything is wrong. Document it all. They may seriously reconsider you're suggestion if they start to see a pattern. Don't by any means, indicate to BM what's up.
This is it: Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy
MUNCHAUSEN BY PROXY (MBP) (also called Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy, Munchausen by Proxy Syndrome, and Factitious Disorder by Proxy) is a label for a pattern of behavior in which caretakers deliberately exaggerate and/or fabricate and/or induce physical and/or psychological-behavioral-mental health problems in others.
This pattern of behavior constitutes a separate kind of maltreatment (abuse/neglect) that manifests as physical abuse, sexual abuse, emotional abuse, neglect, or a combination. The primary purpose of this behavior is to gain some form of internal gratification, such as attention, for the perpetrator.
http://www.mbpexpert.com/definition.html
~ Anne ~
I have suspected this
I have suspected this especially because BM is constantly "hurting herself" for attention too, so why not do it by proxy as well? She certainly thrives on drama and playing the victim. She's the poor single Mommy with a psychologically disturbed child. Let's all feel sorry for her and lavish her with attention.
We'll bring it up with TT.
What's your opinion on this?
My fiance was so delighted to hear from SD & BM last night that he didn't say anything about this, but he and I just don't agree with what BM is doing post-breakdown.
SD, understandably, has been out of school all week. She went in on Tuesday after her initial suicide attempt Monday night, but skipped most of her classes to meet with the guidance counselor and tell her about her breakdown. I don't know if she's in school today, but I imagine she's not. I think by now, she should probably be back in her classes. I don't see a reason she shouldn't be in school today, but I have a feeling BM kept her home again.
So, if SD is too ill (mentally OR physically) to attend school, then why is it ok for her to go to her extracurricular activities? BM took her to swim practice and cello lessons on Wednesday and Thursday night! The real kicker was that after swimming last night, she took her to a movie! They are not on vacation! SD is supposed to be recovering from a major mental breakdown, she needs to be in bed by 9pm, not off to the cinema! It looks to me she's being rewarded for attention-getting behavior.
As always, before I start jumping to conclusions and judging other people's parenting skills, I'd like to have some other opinions. Is BM just giving her some special TLC and letting her have fun, unwind, be a kid, get some good exercise at swim practice to boost her endorphins, etc? Or is this just plain wrong? Is BM "bribing" her to forgive her insane behavior that led SD to break down by creating a special "vacation-like" atmosphere for them to share, like everything's all hunky-dory?
We just don't have a good feeling about this. My fiance did not say anything to BM about it on the phone last night for several reasons though. First, we HATE it when she tries to control how WE spend OUR time with SD, he felt hypocritical if he tried to criticize her decisions of what they do on HER time. Second, this was the first effort on BM's part (ulterior motives or not) to keep him informed and he would much rather know what's going on and silently disagree with it than be kept completely in the dark like we have always been in the past.
Your thoughts?
Well...
under the circumstances, if my SS had a meltdown too, I probably would take him to his extracurricular activities too. And the only reason why is because those are gratification activities. They boost the moral, so in all hindsight, I too would have gradually started to increase SD's activities, but I would have her back in school by now.
So, while it appears that she is rewarding her, and yes that is true, it was also all very dramatic, obviously, event. BM is MOST certainly giving SD TLC, it's a guilt driven factor. It doesn't sound too excessive to me, so far.
I won't bring it up to her, it will create waves, and certainly more tension. Instead, 'reward' her for keeping him up to date. LET her KNOW that you really appreciated her cooperation and being upfront with you. That was really great. Thanks. (Keep it simple though, to the point, direct, so she knows.) Document it too.
Also, enforce to SD how much you care for her, you love her, how much it meant to you to hear from her, and that you're glad she's going okay.
You don't want to over do it right now, but rather, while the waves are calm, enjoy the ride. Make sure that all is involved with her therapy.
I see your point
It's just that when I was growing up, if we weren't well enough to go to school, we weren't well enough to do the fun stuff. I recognize that this might be different though. I just hope she was in school today. She has already missed 10+ days of school!
Thanks for your input. We certainly won't create waves by bringing it up. We pick our battles and this one is definitely not worth fighting!
The most important thing is that SD is doing much better. We will certainly continue to reinforce how much we love her and cherish every moment with her, and every phone call and text message when we can't be with her.
continue loving SD but watch out for BM
I also do agree that you keep trying to show SD that she is loved despite the drama. With BM, don't let your guards down coz you never know what she is trying to spring up next. Its unfortune that when the bms start getting all nice, one can't help but to start suspecting them. As one of our friend said, enjoy the calm for now, hopefully it lasts. Its unfair for the kids who are innocent to be brainwashed by sick uncaring BMs. As she gets older, SD will begin to see who the real caring people in her life are and she will appreciate your efforts. All the best.
Not only was SD not in school all last week
Not only was SD not in school all last week as I feared, but she didn't go again today! And we didn't hear this from BM, we heard it from TT. BM is up to her old games again not keeping the father of her child up to date about her welfare, education, physical and mental health, etc. That didn't take long.
I'm worried about SD! She hasn't been in school since December 22! (besides the 2 classes she attended on Tuesday last week.) She has terrible anxiety attacks about schoolwork sometimes, and when she's missed this much, she gets stressed, which creates more anxiety attacks and a vicious cycle of missing more school because she's missed too much.
Now, when she was out last week, she should have been keeping up with her schoolwork as the days went on. Instead, they left it until 2pm on Sunday to make up a week's worth of missed lessons! No wonder she's stressed out! My fiance got her on the phone yesterday for about 10 seconds and he said she sounded terrible. She was trying to work on her homework so he let her go. We're worried about her.
Home schooling!
If BM is capable of keeping SD while she's out of school for weeks at a time, maybe you should consider home schooling. It'll definitely help with her panic attacks..
I know this probably isn't a viable option but just wanted to throw it out there.
*~So sayeth Nymh~*
thanks for the suggestion!
I appreciate you throwing it out there, but if you knew BM, you'd know that it isn't a viable option for SD! It makes me shudder to think!
SD and BM get into HUGE fights over homework and the stress levels soar. The fight that culminated into this suicide attempt was over (you guessed it) homework. If she were her TEACHER -- I can't even think about it.
Didn't you say that the
Didn't you say that the guidance counselor was privy to a lot of what's been happening? Maybe (s)he can give you guys some help with the school aspect. But she definitely needs to be back in school by now. The longer she puts it off, the harder it's going to be for her to go back. I hope TT is encouraging her to go back. This poor kid! My heart goes out to you guys.
~ Anne ~
guidance counselor
That's a good idea. I will let my fiance know so he can give the guidance counselor a call to see if she has any suggestions. This might be a moot point if SD goes into day therapy, but we'll see.
Hmmm....
Can you get the school Principal to call BM or someone in the school board to give her a little visit... not just the counselor, but they would be good to. But you need someone with a little more authority to tell her, you know, you as the mother are at risk for your daughter. (Although, believe me, I've been reading your posts, and she probably won't listen to that either...)
At least in my state, if your child isn't in school and misses a certain number of days that isn't written off by a doctor, YOU the parent face JAIL time. Is it that way there?
truancy
Yes, in BM's county, the parent faces a $300 fine and if they won't or can't pay it, they can spend up to 5 days in county jail for not making their kid go to school. However, I'm quite sure BM knows her way around that one. She will say her kid is sick and she will know how to get a doctor to write it off.
BM won't communicate
My poor fiance is at wit's end. He's been in touch with TT, thank god, otherwise he would know nothing of what BM and SD are up to. BM won't answer or return any phone calls or emails. Frankly, she is breaking the law because they have shared legal custody and she is not consulting him and making huge decisions without his input.
According to TT, BM took SD to another doctor (we don't know if it's a family doctor, a psychiatrist, a witch doctor or what) and that this doctor recommended day therapy. Essentially, SD would be going to therapy all day, where she would be receiving schooling with other troubled kids. That's all we know.
My fear is that BM will cut off all contact with us. The only contact we have at this moment in time is through TT and if BM pulls SD out of therapy with her to put her in this day therapy that we know nothing about, we won't have any way of knowing what's going on.
TT is onto this
TT is onto this woman....that's why she's trying to separate your SD from this therpist and start the games fresh with a new one(s). IMO
AND becasue of what you/hubby & therpist have witnessed...she is also separating you guys from SD and any 'new' treatment....
She can't go in fresh and fill the new therapists head full of BS about what's really going on...and put SD's condition all on you guys...if your involved...can she!
She needs to gain leverage now...to prevent you guys from getting or going after custody..after everything that's happened....do not forfiet your legal rights to have a say or visitation right now...but keep the courts and SD's therapist informed and follow their advice..work hand in hand with them..they are your & SD's strongest allies right now.
I think its a great idea to begin talking to everyone in SD's life....her school counsellor...her teachers..her freinds..her neighbours...anyone and everyone. You never know what you may turn up....and who your allies are. Boy if you could gather up TT, a teacher or two, a school counsellor, etc....along with biomoms own record of instabiity/mental illness, history of parental alienation....her hadling of this situation..SD's state of mind..etc.
God how can a mentally ill person...possibly be seen as the best person to take care of SD...given her current state. MOM was given an opportunity to take care of her... but it is now obvious that given all that has happened...that she is not doing a good job...SD is NOT THRIVING in that environment...(I think that's the family court jargon that's used)...and needs a mentally stable caretaker to help her through. Her mother is NOT able to deal with her own mental illness AND help SD deal with her own mental breakdown.suicidal threats...... Speak to your attorney again..ask him what he thinks of that as a legal argument.. for a change in custody order..at least temporary...(but be mindful of what TT recommends as well)
Good Luck!
I wonder what she has said...to this new doctor for him to recommend a change in therapists...... CAn you get a court order for her to divulge who this person is..and meet with them along with TT. IF she is playing more games..lying, and all parties get together to figure it out. It would look SSSSSOOOOOOOO BAD for her..I would say it would guarantee..her to loose custody!!!! I think its worth pursuing....don't let her get away with this BS anymore...SD will continue to pay the price....