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All of my rules are making the kids feel like this isn't their house says FDH

Anne Boleyn's picture

FDH and I went for our second counseling session last night. It went pretty well for the most part despite the fact that he irritated me right before the session about something I won’t go into right now.

During the session, he actually said “the kids don’t feel like it’s their house because of all of Anne Boleyn’s rules”. Are you kidding me?? So I said,
1- Did they tell you that or is that your opinion (it’s his opinion)
2- Their BM’s house is a dirty shithole despite being a fancy house in a great neighborhood. Should our house be allowed to get filthy too so they feel more at home?
3- Just because BM doesn’t require anything of them, does that mean we should too? Is it OK for them to grow up not knowing that dishes don’t scrape themselves and magically jump from the sink to the dishwasher, etc? Don’t you want them to be productive adults who can clean after themselves?
4- You are acting like I am some sort of ogre. I am not asking them to scrub floors. Hell, I (not FDH)even pay for a housekeeper to come every other week to do the heavy stuff. All I ask is they clean up after themselves and help us keep the home tidy. How am I making them feel like it’s not their home with all these supposed rules??

Finishing blog in the comments...

Comments

Anne Boleyn's picture

The last part has really been irking me all day. Seriously, I have hardly any rules. I decided to write them down so I could take inventory to show him how minimal it is. This is what I came up with, in order of when/how they were implemented since we moved in together a year ago:
• Do not drink the last two diet cokes in the fridge. Choose another option because I need them to wake up in the morning ( I don’t drink coffee and this rule has been in place for 2 years)
• Scrape your dinner or snack plate into the garbage can, rinse and place in dishwasher. (This is opposed to BM’s requirement that they place their unscraped plates on top of one another in the sink)
• Piano playing hours are now from 1PM to 10PM on weekends and mutual vacation days. 6PM-10Pm when I am working in my office adjacent to the piano/
• When you are here and I am working, do not talk loudly, slam kitchen cabinets, blast the TV or walk into my office. My income pays for 50% of this house and our lifestyle.
• Do not walk in my room or bathroom without knocking or asking. Plan ahead to share the other bathroom with your siblings.
• When enjoying a beverage in the living room, please use a coaster before setting it down on the wood furniture because you will ruin it otherwise.
• When you are finished with your soda can, please place it with the other recycling on the counter instead of leaving it all over the living room or your bedroom.
• Please do not leave your medical waste on my kitchen counter.
• Please do not use your hands to pick up food from the serving platter as they are probably not washed and you are touching multiple pieces of other people’s food while you search for the best piece for yourself.
• Go to bed on time without a two hour fight.
• When you leave on Sunday of your EOW, please pull off the sheets from your beds so I can wash them and have the housekeeper replace them for you at her next visit. (This was the most recent addition).

And of course, there are ad hoc extras from time- to- time like “Please don’t stuff your wet pool towel in my couch cushions” and “After shaving your bikini area in the shower, please clean up your mountain of pubic hair from the shower floor”.

So, all in all, the message is basically, “clean up after yourself, don’t be loud late at night and early in the morning, don’t ruin the furniture or leave unsanitary conditions for the others in this house and get some rest in a nice clean and comfy bed.”

Man, Do I sound like a task master or what???!!

Anne Boleyn's picture

The point is that I am NOT the housekeeper and have no plans to be. (I told him this again last night). He does their laundry. I sometimes throw in a couple things with mine if I am feeling generous to him. I pay for someone to deep clean after they leave EOW. (I had a housekeeper the same amount when I lived alone or with BS so I don't mind continuing that. CS prevents FDH from helping with that now but that's OK). I do the dinner dishes if FDH cooks but that means my plate, the pots and pans and serving dishes. They can put their stuff in the dishwasher. So basically these few rules are in place to keep things tidy and running smoothly without me having to pick up after three teenagers who are quite capable of doing a couple things to keep the house decent.

Totalybogus's picture

Maybe its not the rules themselves, maybe it is the way you say it. I noticed that I am a little harsher with kids that are not mine. I am more willing to compromise with my own kids. Sometimes its not what you say but how you say it. I've had to do this myself

Anne Boleyn's picture

I'm actually very nice when I ask them to do anything. For example, Sunday I said "Hey girls, when we get home, please strip your sheets for me again so I can wash them and have them put back on your beds so they'll be nice when you come back". Seriously.

Now, FDH knows I get mad behind the scenes and he says my body stiffens when I run into a mess. I usually just look at him and leave the room. He feels everyone can sense that I am being rigid and that makes people unconfortable.

Onefootout's picture

this is just not right.

Here's my suggested list of rules:

1) You are a good person and you do not need to seek validation of your rules, even in StepTalk. But I understand feedback always helps.

2) it is perfectly reasonable for your skids to clean up after themselves, you are not a hard-ass.

3) If DH would do his job you wouldn't need all of 'your' rules.

4) Do not ever fall for lines like you are making skids feel unwelcome because of your rules, or even worse, 'you are coming between me and my kids.' these are highly manipulative ways for DH's to get out of parenting. My ex told me I came between him and his kids because I didn't want to be their maid or live in absolute filth.

I feel for you.

Anne Boleyn's picture

The counselor came down on him pretty hard related to your #3. I told him that asking them to do a few minor things and not be obnoxious wouldn't have to happen if he parented. I mean seriously, should I really have to say "Hey, please don't play the piano at 3AM???" or "Please don't touch all the food with your hands". Those should be a given.

The counselor told him that I had the right plan and he needed to jump onboard because he's letting the kids get away with doing little to nothing. She said these rules should have NEVER been presented as Anne's rules and that they should've been presented as OUR rules for the home. He started saying "well,they know this started when we moved in together". She told him "So? Tell them that you love them and Anne and want a nice home for everyone so this is how it will be". These are all things I've been saying for some time so it was nice to hear it come from someone else's mouth to his ears.

#4- I am with you. I want them to feel comfortable and welcome here. But as I said to him, I am not going to have that come at my expense. If their mom lived on a pile of dog poop, should I do the same so they can feel comfortable? Also, I pointed out that this is their home 10 days a month, max. They don't have all their stuff here. It will never feel the same as their home with their mom. That's got nothing to do with me and was the case before anyone even met me. The best part is that they are moving in with BM's BF and his 2 kids in a couple weeks. I bet our house is going to feel a lot more like home then! Can't wait for that scene.

Onefootout's picture

Anne, I can tell from your writing that you are legit, meaning you are not being too harsh. Max 10 days per month? You are right, there's the real problem. You are being set up, maybe not intentionally, but you are. I think you see that, and I'm glad you're not buying into it. Thank goodness for a counselor who truly gets the step family dynamic.

I admire your strength.

WarmBody's picture

Your rules are not too demanding. You are not ogre.
It might also be true though that the kids do not feel it is their home anymore.
It might also be true that your husband doesn't feel it is a welcoming home for the skids.

I think you should respond to him expressing how you interpret his words and show that you really do listen and you do care instead of getting defensive first. Try "mirroring" him. Then have him do the same for you. When you express your concerns he has to listen too and NOT attack.

It would make both of you feel better to just know you're being listened to and not talking to a brick wall because if you feel like you're talking to a brick wall then that ultimately means nothing will change and there's no hope.

WarmBody's picture

I'm only saying this because the impression I get is that there's a lot of negativity going on. I could be off base and I won't be mad if you let me know this isn't something to worry about:

There's nothing wrong with enforcing rules or teaching good habits but if the only time you ever speak to the kids is to correct them, nag them, or make snide remarks then that's going to create a lot of tension and hostility. You need to try to balance it out with at least some positive or even neutral interactions. Otherwise if they feel attacked they may revolt by purposely doing things to annoy you and suddenly you have a contest of who can be meaner to who going on and that's not good for anybody.

Anne Boleyn's picture

There is negativity between me and FDH on this topic. And SD11 resents being asked to do anything. And I mean anything. The other kids have no issue with it. One even loves that there are standards and wishes her other home was run better and cleaner.

I am very nice to the kids. I do a lot for them. I buy them nice things. I go out of my way to make their favorite foods and desserts when they visit. I laugh and joke with them. I am very, very kind to them. I even attend their events when their dad is out of town.

And, BTW, I uncovered that the kids NEVER said anything about that. It's FDH's interpretation because he thinks I have too many rules. That's why I wrote them down to see for myself if they were bad. I have come to the conclusion that FDH thinks kids should be coddled, and not asked to do anything. BM feels the same way. I refuse to live that way with a crowd of people in my home once a week and every other weekend.

Fortunately, the point of counseling is to help us learn to communicate better and compromise.

WarmBody's picture

Gotcha, yes kids actually like structure and discipline.

My skids gravitated towards me as soon as I started being tough on them. Same thing happened with the dog that my partner had. When I first got a hold of the dog it had no rules on food and never walked on a leash. I do feeding at specific times and make it wait before going to the food and I walk it on a leash. I taught her to not bark at other dogs while walking also. The dog loves me and I'm the only one it comes to when called the first time. Everyone else has to say it more than once.

Maybe your fDH doesn't like your rules and wants to be more messy and is just assuming the kids feel the same (projection) or perhaps saying they do to influence you knowing they might not (manipulation)?

Lazy sloppy men...what would we do without them? Have clean houses perhaps? Wink

Anne Boleyn's picture

Totally agree. As I mentioned in a comment above, the counselor basically told him this was not outlandish and he needs to step up and have them do these basic things and present them as OUR rules.

In the session, we finally agreed we'd sit down and create a new list of rules which HE will be required to present (with me by his side) as our household rules. Now, we have to see if he does this. I am willing.

Living the dream's picture

Didn't you get the memo? It is a travesty to ask a skid to clean up after him or herself. These kids are special cases and all of us ordinary humans exist to wait on them hand and foot throughout their lives because, after all, their parents are divorced.

Anne Boleyn's picture

I really wish someone gave that memo to my step-dad who believed I was there to wait on him and care for all his future bio kids. Smile

New second wife-step-mom's picture

Anne, boy does all of that ring a bell with me.

I went through the same exact things with SS13. BM and DH had never expected or required that SS did any chores around the house and when I moved in and it was a
mess.

___________________________________________________________________________________

Now, FDH knows I get mad behind the scenes and he says my body stiffens when I run into a mess. I usually just look at him and leave the room. He feels everyone can sense that I am being rigid and that makes people unconfortable.

He started saying "well,they know this started when we moved in together".

I have come to the conclusion that FDH thinks kids should be coddled, and not asked to do anything. BM feels the same way.

___________________________________________________________________________________

^^^ All of THESE, I went through.

It finally got spewed out from BM and SS, then DH that SS did not feel at home there anymore because of my rules.

Funny thing was that SS still hadn't done any chores yet...

hereiam's picture

What, may I ask, is medical waste? Sounds way too nasty to be leaving on the kitchen counter!

I like a clean house, not only for myself but I always wanted to provide a clean environment for SD. So, if she felt like it wasn't her home when she was there, because it was clean and we made her clean up after herself, too bad.

She is now 21 and we have visited her in 3 different places where her & her husband have lived. All filthy. They are PIGS. So, yeah, she probably felt uncomfortable at our house, probably still does when she visits. Not my problem.

All of your "rules" are common courtesy things that should should be common sense. Let somebody play the piano at 3 AM at my house. Things would really get uncomfortable. Painful, even. }:)

Anne Boleyn's picture

Diabetes supplies. Needle and cap for insulin. Used alcohol pad and wrapper. Blood test strips (used with blood on them). So yes, used needle, blood and dirty alcohol pad-- on the kitchen counter.

hereiam's picture

That's kind of what I thought. Eeewwwwww. Nobody should have to be told where that goes.

Willow2010's picture

Have you tried what other SMs do? Stop being the housekeeper and don't clean anything until they start cleaning
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I would NOT be able to do this.

AB..your rules are right on the money. Let me tell you what DH and I did. I had basically the same rules. BUUUT…If skid did not follow them, then DH had to go behind skid and clean plates, clean table, tell skid to use coaster.
Example…if skid was not using a coaster, I would go tell DH (very nicely) that skid is not using a coaster. And he would either go make skid get a coaster or make him put up his drink. Same with my kids…if my son left dirty dishes in the sink…DH would come tell me that my DS left dishes in sink…then I would go make DS clean up his mess. Neither kid was being told what to do by the Sparent.

It may not work for some…and your DH MUST be on board with it. But it worked really well for my family.

Anne Boleyn's picture

That is actually a point of contention. I do exactly what you do. I try to nicely tell FDH that "SD left her medical stuff on the counter" or "There are dirty dishes left in the sink". He thinks I should be the one to tell them. In theory, I wouldn't have a problem with this if that didn't give FDH lisence to make the bad guy and do nothing. I told him that the reason I refuse to tell them myself most of the time is that I think HE needs to step up and parent and then I can join him. So for now, he needs to be the one to correct the kids. He claims he does not see these things and thinks I run around the house with my hawk eyes looking for messes. Sorry man, it's not hard for me to see the unrinsed chocolate ice cream bowl in the sink when I go to rinse out my glass and put it in the dishwasher. That doesn't take hawk eyes.

My son lives in his own apartment so FDH never has to deal with any issues of his. So that nakes the dynamic hard soemtimes because it's always me being upset about his kids and not the other way around ever.

Unfreakingreal's picture

The thing is these men feel that the SKIDS are on a VACATION when they are visiting. SO as such, GUESTS shouldn't be expected to clean up after themselves. Yet, they insist they are treated as FAMILY and NOT GUESTS.
Catch 22.
SD12 asked me a few days ago, "Do I need to wash this cup?" I said "ABSOLUTELY!" She huffed, puffed and sighed, but she washed it.
If it's YOURS you wash it, that's just the way it is.

kathc's picture

OK, I've been slammed for my stance on things before but I'll say it again.

Who cares if they don't feel like it's their house? It's NOT!!!

YOUR house, YOUR rules. They are visitors.

RedWingsFan's picture

^^^^I will get slammed with ya on this one Smile

I don't think any of the OP's rules are outlandish or outrageous. And no, it's not THEIR house!

bi's picture

sd didn't feel at home here because of my simple rules, either. i agree with the poster who said, who cares, it's NOT their home! she also felt "hated" and "unwanted" because of my rules, which were simple and few, and imo, should not have been considered rules at all, but common sense things you just do.

1. stay out of things that do not belong to you.
2. if you want to use something that belongs to someone else, ASK THE OWNER.
3. no eating in the living room. (because like a toddler, she left a huge mess every time).
4. clean up after yourself in the kitchen and bathroom.
5. do not leave your dirty clothes all over the house.
6. get your ass in bed by 10pm on school nights, not stay up all night then bitch that you are too tired to go to school in the morning.
7. here's the one that really pissed her off: you are expected to go to school ALL 5 days EVERY week. (i know, what a horrid witch i am!)

Anne Boleyn's picture

Sounds pretty much like a differently written set of the same rules I have. And #7 isn't even close to happening. She goes 0 days a week now. You know... because of "anxiety".

hereiam's picture

And let me just say, when I lived at home, with my mom and my dad, it was their house. Yes, I lived there but do you think I could do whatever the hell I wanted just so I would feel more comfortable, and feel like it was my house?

Your DH needs to step up.

giveitago's picture

I get the correlation of suddenly there are rules when Anne comes on the scene, of course the SKids are going to resent it and fight against it. It's the united front that really would solve a huge amount of the problems. It's natural that SKids are going to think (at least for a while) that Anne is making daddy do this too. I hope that once your DH starts stepping up that he maintains it...he will see a huge difference and hopefully he will want that easier life that comes as he steps further and further up to the plate.

Bojangles's picture

Every single thing you describe happened to me. Slobby BM, lazy teens/preteens, SO disinclined to make an issue out of it and perfectly willing to do everything for them and make me do it too. It was just a horrendous impasse. It seemed like either I had to feel uncomfortable and like it wasn't my home, or they did. Or either I had to accept a dirty messy home, or I had to do the work to correct it because apparently I was the only one who was bothered. My desire for a calm tidy house became a huge political issue; I used to tidy up after they had all gone home on Sunday, which on one occasion prompted H to say that it was like I was trying to erase them from the house. He was shockingly defensive about it, as so many Dad's are when they misinterpret their partners desire to have some of their own rules and standards hold sway in their home, as some sort of rejection of, or attack on, their children.

I tried to compromise, because I didn't want them to feel out of place at our house and really wanted to create a happy household. I could see the contrast with BM's house was quite extreme, and I recognised that my having no experience of children around the house probably made me over sensitive. I relaxed about some things and for the rest, I told H if he didn't want them to do anything, then it was his responsibility to pick up the slack, because it was not right to expect me to live in an environment which made me feel uncomfortable. But to some degree we never got over it. I thought we had for a few years after we had counselling, when we moved house and our counsellor motivated H to give the children chores and stop treating them like guests. But as soon as the youngest turned 13 the whole thing became a huge bone of contention again, because once again we had a sullen teenager who resented helping at our house when he was allowed to fester in chaos at his mothers and never lifted a finger to help. And my husband was STILL making me the bad guy by 'forgetting' the chores, or being half arsed about enforcing them.

Fundamentally if you've got a partner who is not all that tidy himself, and finds it very hard to follow through on boundaries with his non custodial children - on noise, mess, chores, diet, bedtimes, curfews etc etc etc, in my experience it's nigh on impossible to make that leopard change his spots. And it is impossible for the children not to be aware of those tensions in the background, and able to leap on them as a reason to reject the stepparent who they had no wish to have included in their lives anyway.