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When does visitation order end?

AlmostDone's picture

In DH's CO, support ends at 18 and HS graduation. It makes no mention of when visitation schedule ends (we are assuming the same).

This is BMs weekend.
YSD15 and OSD18 were with her today (MSD is working out of state for the summer). Both were dropped off at exchange location. Both were picked up at exchange location today.

Tomorrow, OSD18 (she has graduated) wants to spend the day with BM so she will be dropped off at the exchange location with YSD15. YSD15 works tomorrow (she starts about an hour before BM's time ends). She arranged for BM to take her to work and for me (DH out of town for work) to pick her up when her shift ends 6 hours later.

My I have to pick OSD18 up at the exchange location at the designated time (I have plans that conflict with the pickup time), or is it up to her - as an adult - to make arrangements (friend, BM, bus) to get home after she is done spending time with BM? OSD does not drive, which is why transportation is an issue.


AlmostDone's picture

I'm the caregiver when DH is away because BM has no overnights (per her request) and the CO is very specific about exchange times and locations, including requiring a purchase at the location and getting a receipt. He only travels for work 1-2x/yr, so it usually isn't an issue.

BM is mentally ill and rarely does anything that is not spelled out in the CO, even if she agrees to it in writing. Asking her to do anything extra creates too much drama.

notarelative's picture

While it is not your legal obligation to be at the exchange location to pick up OSD18, since she does not drive, and she lives with you, you should have discussed this with her before drop off. YSD's work schedule was known at that time.

At a minimum a phone call to inform her that you will not be picking her up is needed. Maybe OSD can arrange for BM to drop her for pickup with YSD.

AlmostDone's picture

Drop off is tomorrow, so I did not leave her there without a plan. I was asking tonight to make sure my telling her she needs to figure out a ride home tomorrow was legit. i informed her tonight that she will need a plan to get home tomorrow, since I will be unavailable.

The younger one already made the plan for tomorrow and I agreed to pick her up after work since it would be late, Sunday bus service is not frequent, and picking her up did not conflict with my plans. The oldest one has some developmental challenges and while intelligent, has the maturity of a 10 yr old, and the coordination of a 4 year old, which is why she isn't driving yet.

AlmostDone's picture

Do you mean that because BM didn't want overnights that their father (or you) had to pick up and drop off TWICE - two days in a row - every visitation weekend? I would never have agreed to be a slave to that.

Exactly this. DH did not AGREE to it. He spent $$$ fighting this stupidity and LOST. This was a judge's order. He filed a motion to reconsider and the judge then ordered him to pay BM's attorney fees!

You knew their visitation was this weekend, and you knew you had something else to do. If your other plan arose suddenly at the last minute, then you can't nix the obligation to pick up SD for what you prefer to be doing instead. Just arrange to do both if possible.

I made my plans weeks ago. When DH travels, he needs to stay until the job is finished. He initially thought he would be back this afternoon (Saturday) so Sunday would have been his to deal with. unfortunately, there was a problem and he won't be back until Monday, which is why Sunday became a last minute issue.

I've spoken with SD18. She knows how to ride the bus home from BM's (15 minute bus ride) or from the exchange location (40 min bus ride) .... And yes...the exchange location is further away than BMs home (again, not DHs choice!). She has plenty of notice. Return exchange is at 4 pm tomorrow (but not really anymore since SD15 - the one legally required to be at the exchange - won't be at the exchange. Since SD18 is 18.... She can come home earlier or later)

Disneyfan's picture

Why can't both girls take the bus?

You live in an area with public transportation, so there's no need for the adults to drive themselves crazy trying to get them where they need to be. Plenty of elementary school kids here in NYC ride the buses and subways without an adult. Surely a 15 and 18 year old can handle it alone.

Last In Line's picture

With the addition of the information that there are developmental issues with OSD, that could change things as far as the CO is concerned. In a few states, disabled children are covered for a longer time than typical children. I also think it's a pretty awful thing to do to a child, whether disabled or not, to just suddenly leave them in the lurch because of their age. "You're 18 now, sorry you can't drive but you just have to figure out what you're going to do to get home tomorrow, never mind that it's never been a problem before."

AlmostDone's picture

The developmental delay did not prevent her from graduating on time, so no special impact on the CO or support. She holds a part time job which she gets to/from on her own (bike or bus). She is not be able to ride a bus from an unknown location independently, but she can once she knows the route. DH rode with her the first few times when she started her job until she learned the route. Driving has too many variable and unknowns for her, and requires too much coordination, which is why she doesn't drive yet

She knows how to take the bus from her mom's home to ours and from the exchange location (the mall) to our home. She can handle those tasks independently.

Disneyfan's picture

If the parents aren't doing the drop off or pickup, why do the girls need to go to the exchange location? :? They are old enough to travel on their own so there is no longer a need for an exchange location.

She can just take the bus from your house to mom's house.

AlmostDone's picture

They usually do the official exchange. Sometimes one or more of the girls or (rarely) BM ask for extra time. DH gives it if there are not schedule conflicts. The girls bus to BMs on those "unofficial times"

DH tries to be flexible. The girls try to be more independent. But then BM goes off her meds and ramps up the crazy (see my previous blog)

twoviewpoints's picture

If CS has ceased for SD18 so too has her status of CO visitation as a minor.

So, no, you are under no legal obligation to accommodate visitation transport for SD18. With that said and keeping in mind this young has some maturity/developmental challenges I'd be certain that when you do drop SD off you're assured ahead of time 1)she has a guaranteed ride home, 2)bus fare and knowledge of route 3)or she selects a different day that isn't inconvenient for you/Dad.

The SD is not regulated by CO any longer, when it is just her and not also her younger sisters, you're under no obligation to use the 'destination' exchange spot. You're free to say 'look, SD I'll meet BM 7 minutes away (between the residences) at McDonald's at x time, that is all I'm offering today'.

Glad to read MSD got to do the summer camp work. BM had been squealing about revoking permission.

AlmostDone's picture

My DH usually does the driving to exchanges. This weekend is not the norm because he is out of town and was delayed in returning home.
The girls usually ride their bikes or the bus to their jobs on days that are not BMs, unless there are special circumstances.

Driving the girls (only YSD is required to go) TO the exchange was not my issue (stupid, but it is not a huge inconvenience for me today). Giving YSD a ride home after she finishes work at 9 pm tonight fit with my preexisting plans and I agreed to it (with the Sunday bus schedule, she wouldn't get home until 11:30 pm). That is not the issue or my question. My only question was whether I am (as DH's proxy today) responsible for picking up OSD18 at the CO ordered time and location if she goes. My thought was that I am not, since she is now an adult and the CO no longer applies to her. This was communicated with her last night so she knows either her mom needs to give her a ride home at the end of their visit or she needs to take the bus. There is a bus stop a block away from BMs house and one across the street from the exchange location, so taking the bus home later today will not be difficult for her to do.

This is the stupid CO that mandates that DH is present at the exchange (see below).
"Based on the wishes of the mother, the court affirms the Temporary Orders of [date] for Mother’s normal parenting time. Mother’s parenting time shall continue every other weekend on Saturday and Sunday from 8:00 a.m. until 4:00 p.m. The parties shall exchange the children at [store name] located at [address]. Both Mother and Father shall purchase some nominal item at each exchange from [store name] to provide proof of their arrival time and shall maintain receipts for a period of 6 months."

WalkOnBy's picture

Once a child has turned 18 and graduated high school, they are no longer subject to the court order regarding child support or parenting time.

So, no-you are not obligated, under the court order, to transport the 18-year-old anymore.

FieryEscape's picture

That's nuts and I think you said in an above comment that the exchange location is much farther from your house than BMs?

WTF of crack was DHs lawyer smoking to allow that crap in the CO ? Id be back in court , no way I'd follow that crap.

Maxwell09's picture

When I was a teenager I was really finnicky about my mom being on time to pick me up even at 18. If the plan before she left was for you to pick her up then I think you should be there. Once she gets back you need to explain to her that from now on she will need to find a way home if she's going to go be with BM off schedule since you have your own plans made around that specific schedule already.

AlmostDone's picture

I dropped the girls off at the exchange location at 8 this morning and headed out of town (2.5 hour drive to friend's wedding reception - they eloped last month)

8:15 -received a call from OSD that BM not there yet and not answering her phone. Told them to keep trying.
8:30 - OSD called to say they reached BM and she was running a few minutes late.
9:00 - angry YSD called and asked if they should go home since BM still not there. Told them to talk to their mom.
9:15 - OSD called. Said BM finally showed up and YSD left with her. OSD said she was taking the bus back home.
4:15 pm - OSD texted that YSD called her because BM was at YSDs work and wouldn't leave her alone. OSD called BM and agreed to spend time with her. She said BM would bring her home when done.
4:30 Reception ended and I started my drive home.
5:15 - OSD sent text saying she should be home by 7
7:15 - got home. no OSD. Sent her a text asking "running late?" She responded and said it would be closer to 9.
8:45 - left house to pick up YSD. She ranted the entire drive about her mom showing up late and almost getting her fired. OSD was home when we returned.
OSD and YSD still venting at each other about their crappy day / BM.
Glad DH gets home tomorrow evening.