Hi there!
This is my first post. I am about at wits end. I joined a board years ago on AOL when they still had boards but I was constantly being attacked by "step-moms" who were also BM's. Actually there was just one, but she was mean and had enough anger for 12 people! Well, I thought I'd reach out again for some help and support and you all seem to be pretty nice here.
My DH's (I hope I can get all the Abbrv. right. Anyone have a key?) ex has Narcissistic Personality Disorder or NPD. This of course has not been professionally diagnosed as NPD is nearly impossible to diagnose. Do any of you have any experience with an ex with NPD? Please share your experiences with me. Everything I read says to "run like hell". As you all know that is not possible when kids are involved.
I look forward to hearing how some others have dealt with this.
I am still here
I am both a BM who raised her sons as a single parent and a SM to 6 children. Three who live with DH and myself. I suspect BM is narcassistic. She thinks the world revolves around her. Everything is about her. The best way I can tell you how to handle this is not to handle it at all. DH doesn't even talk to BM anymoe. She was taping her calls trying to use those tapes against DH. She refuses to communicate and tries to engage DH through emails. She is constantly baiting DH and I and we just don't fall for it anymore. The best thing to do with someone like that is not to give her any power. Her opinion means nothing in my home. The kids are getting old enough where they are seeing her games. It is a same because it is HER loss.
"GO BACK TO YOUR BRIDGE YOU EVIL TROLL. YOU HAVE NO POWERS HERE"
Good advice Cruella, but...
As you know the NPD is flaring up again this week. I came back to this post to remind myself of the advice that was previously given. I understand what you are saying here about not giving her the power and we really do our best not to directly. However, we have come to a point of not even being able to talk to the kids about anything or ask them simple questions like "where is your sister" without getting a snippy email from her about "putting the kids in the middle". How do you continue to talk to the kids and ask questions when she has them so brainwashed. Mostly when we ask them questions all we hear is "I don't know", but they seem to relay our conversations to her verbatum (she misinterprets of course) Any advice? Anyone?
In our case
We have custody so she can't do much. I do know I saw a HUGE difference in my skids last summer. SD couldn't even tell us she missed or loved us. That is because her mom told her not to say it to DH!!!!! The funny thing about this nut is we have the kids 10 months out of each year. Doesn't this idiot realize that we will ask SD when she got home what was going on???
It is difficult in your case if BM has the physical custody.
"GO BACK TO YOUR BRIDGE YOU EVIL TROLL. YOU HAVE NO POWERS HERE"
We have joint custody but we
We have joint custody but we are the non-custodial parents. Our time-share is only 30% and most of the time is spent sleeping or in school! She has all the time she needs to manipulate and brainwash them. We are having a good weekend so I'm feeling hopeful. Foolish, I know.
My SD BM has an undiagnosed personality disorder
And my SD has been diagnosed with "Emerging Personality Disorder NOS."
It's hard to say which one BM has because she also won't be diagnosed. She only even went to any of SD's counseling visits to appease the court during our custody case. After a year of challenging us after we sued for full custody, BM conceded the night before our actual trial date, because SD's shrink told the GAL the following-
BM has a self centered approach to relationships
BM is unable to collaborate with BF or SD
BM is rigid and unable to understand things from the child's perspective
SM and BF have a very collaborative relationship with SD and have age appropriate rules for behavior
Collaboration is essential in raising an adolescent and I feel that SD will be most able to flourish in BF and SM' home.
THEN the GAL recommended we get full custody.
We had also requested a psych eval and I think that BM's attorney told her if she fought this out in front of a judge he would order it based on what the psychologist said. BM is terrified of psychologists and caved instantly.
SD's shrink is the only DR to ever have an opportunity to meet with BM. She felt that BM had a classic case of Paranoid Personality Disorder. But when I look up symptoms (and I have had a lot more history than a few visits and phone calls) I think BM has Borderline Personality Disorder. Because she has symptoms of ALL of the PDs.
This is a very tough road. You will find many of the ST SM's in the same boat. Most of our DH's likely left because of the mental illness of their exW. It's exhausting. And unfortunately, travels in families as is the case with my SD. She likely inherited the tendency then had it reinforced through BM's behavior model.
Long road ahead
BUT welcome! You won't find many negative folks on here. It happens occasionally but we settle it down well. Sometimes people have left over online spats but that seems rare. There are many SMs on here who are also BMs but because of what we suffer from with BMs we are not quick to judge another SM's feelings.
"Om Tare Tutare Ture Mama Ayurpunye Jnana Putin Kuru Svaha"
~Sita Tara Mantra
dh and I are starting to
dh and I are starting to suspect that his mother and bm both have BPD, and I think his mother has symptoms of histrionic personality disorder as well.
The more I read and study about these disorders the more I feel like my uneducated, non medical diagnosis is right. Unfortunately they both claim to be seeing a "therapist" but it doesn't seem to be helping either, which reinforces my belief that they both are BPD.
Our counselor even commented in re: to MIL's over-reactions to normal things that "it sounds like she lives in a fantasy world bubble and that any time you disagree with her it threatens to burst her bubble"
I am not sure of all the different disorders
All I know is BM is a freaking fruit loop. I think she has every disorder in the book.
"GO BACK TO YOUR BRIDGE YOU EVIL TROLL. YOU HAVE NO POWERS HERE"
THAT'S IT!
BM has FFLD - Freaking Fruit Loop Disorder.
It's been absolutely hell lately. No one has said what BM has but she has a combination of anger, rage, anxiety, wild and rapid mood swings, depression, irrational thoughts, blames everyone else for her problems, doesn't like who she is, doesn't have any boundaries, no self esteem, self centered, self consumed, constantly feeling sorry for herself and victimized, and has started to confide in SD9 about how she didn't have any friends when she was 9, 10, 11 and 12. SD pities her and who knows how that is affecting SD.
BM's behavior has been so bad lately, it's affecting SD. I am so stressed out about this right now. You know the kind of stress where if a complete stranger just smiles at you, you almost burst into tears because someone was nice to you.
LOL!
Too funny! Are you sure you and I don't deal with the same person. You just described my Skids BM. We can't do a thing to change what they do in their homes but we can control what goes on in our homes.
"GO BACK TO YOUR BRIDGE YOU EVIL TROLL. YOU HAVE NO POWERS HERE"
You crack me up Cruella.
Thanks for making me laugh, I really needed a laugh.
I also think the BM is Cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs.
I left out so incredibly needy that it feels like she trying to climb up your body with such urgency and panic to get out of the black hole that she's in. I think in BM's mind everyone else is the key to helping her. And anyone who isn't helping her is evil and out to get her. It must really suck to be BM. I wish she'd get some proper professional help with her mental issues.
Mine has a bad case of BUAS.
Broomstick Up Ass Syndrome. But I shouldn't say that. She's actually being human these days.
♥ Georgia ♥
"Good men don't just happen. They have to be created by us women." (from ROSEANNE)
How handy
I bet you she can fly that broom too
"GO BACK TO YOUR BRIDGE YOU EVIL TROLL. YOU HAVE NO POWERS HERE"
IF
she could manage to dislodge it from her ass long enough, that is...
ew narcissistic birth mothers!
ooh yes. I have researched NPD for years and BM fits the bill exactly. She honestly believes she is the most beautiful, most intelligent, most sophisticated, mother of the year. Nothing could be further from the truth. She's a horrible mother, doesn't look or act sophisticated, looks much older than she is,never makes herself look nice, and is as dumb as a goalpost. She will actually tell people how amazing she is. I laugh in her face and will continue to do so - she's a joke to my family.
She was diagnosed by our family doctor (she has the same one unfortunately) and a psychiatrist years ago with bipolar disorder, but she refused to take medication and said both doctors were crazy, not her. She has stated she has an 'imaginary world that has a lot of characters in it, and she stays there a lot' - she told my husband this one day when they were discussing child support. I pity the guy she's with now - she is truly nuts and no doubt he has seen the signs already (or she hides it really well). The best is when she's really upset (or caught in a lie) she makes her eyes go in opposite directions - I've seen this when I confronted her once on my front doorstep. Now THAT is a weird sight.
My husband didn't want to have kids with her but she tricked him, and tried to back out of the marriage before the wedding day but she got all her family & friends to talk him into it. He thought she was crazy and would cheat on him...he was right! Too bad he didn't listen to his intuition. I think anybody who uproots their family and has an imaginary world like she did is a nutcase. I can't wait until the day she kicks the bucket. The world will be a much saner, calmer, nicer place to live.
She is a true narcissist, devoid of feeling except for herself, and has only her best interests and not the kids' at heart. I'm glad I am better than her - in every way.
~ Remember it's your life too ~
Thank you all for
Thank you all for responding. It sounds like my research was right and that you should do everything in your power to ignore a person like this and not give them any energy/power. Like ignoring a misbehaving child. I tried to talk to her once when DH and I first started dating and she stabbed me in the hand with her keys. Beyond this one outburst her actions are very insidious so, it's hard for anyone else to understand. It's almost like having one of those dreams where you are screaming at the top of your lungs and nothing is coming out.
At least now I have someone else to vent to instead of driving my husband nuts! He knows how she is and was trained (by her) how to deal with her. So, he doesn't deal with her and that frustrates me. I am considering going to counseling myself (and dragging my DH) so that we can learn how to ignore her effectively. DH tried to take her to counseling but, people with NPD have NO problems and are very manipulative! She is sugary sweet and EVERYONE believes every untruthful word that comes out of her mouth.
Thanks again everyone. I'm glad to have found this place.
BTW...LOL...Love the sig:"GO BACK TO YOUR BRIDGE YOU EVIL TROLL. YOU HAVE NO POWERS HERE"
Now THIS is a club I could join.
BM is diagnosed bipolar. I'm also pretty sure that she has Borderline Personality Disorder.
My advice for you. Go to that counselor and leave your husband at home if he doesn't want to go. I went to a counselor and learned so much about her mental illness and ways to deal with her. My complete contempt for her has turned to pity.
It's such a Catch22 with these women - they need to be treated the most but because of their illness are the most reluctant to seek treatment. So they are stuck in a chaotic world and are convinced that the rest of the world "just doesn't understand".
Welcome to the site and please know that I've been where you are and lawdy, do I feel your pain.
"For every ailment under the sun....There is a remedy, or there is none;
If there be one, try to find it; If there be none, never mind it." ~ W.W. Bartley
BM is bipolar but wont admit it
one time fiance told BM to get back on her crazy meds when she was being particularly crazy and bitchy. she responded by saying those were for post-partum. he said thats funny bc youve been on them since i met u which was way before SD was born!
Colorado Girl
Colorado Girl,
I should not have said I was going to "drag" DH to counceling. He is all for it but, having been in that situation (married) for almost 17 years with her personality he can't see the light at this point. They have not been together for over 5 years and he is still bruised by the experience.
I'm glad to hear that you were able to turn contempt into pity. I have been trying to feel sorry for her for what seems like forever and I really want to be there. Oh what a joyous day that will be! : ) Good for you!
Wicked2Three...
My hubby was married to BM for 8 years and together for 13. He learned how to deal with her over all that time. I didn't. I had never encountered such a beast and didn't realize that all that was rational would be disbursed of at any given moment.
It took me coming to understand her a little better to realize that it was ME that would have to learn to adapt to the chaotic environment because SHE IS NEVER GOING TO CHANGE. I learned coping skills and most importantly I learned to leave the bulk of the dealings with her to the man who decided to bear three children with her. I have made it as clear as possible what my expectations are to MY husband and what I am comfortable with and what I am not in the dealings with the ex-wife. It's all a process and there are good days and there are bad but all in all it's about him balancing the need to get along with BM and making sure the boundaries I expect are valued.
Me....I'm just a spectator for BM's roller coaster ride. I jumped off a long time ago and will never board that ride again.
You'll get there....I promise.
"For every ailment under the sun....There is a remedy, or there is none;
If there be one, try to find it; If there be none, never mind it." ~ W.W. Bartley
My DH is the same as both of yours
He learned coping mechanisms. The problem is they weren't very healthy.
Such as, every time he wanted to watch a game, as a former football capt and coach at West Point after all, he does love his sports. I have to say that he doesn't watch them obsessively either, though BM thought he did, and if he had a drink after work he was an alcoholic, if he talked to his mom on the phone every couple days they had an "unnatural relationship" etc. It's all that PD black/white thinking.
But he told me he finally realized if he would allow an argument to blow up about him watching a game, in very short order BM would throw the remote at him (hard, she was abusive to him) and stomp off to "her room" (they stopped sharing a bed the last several years they were married) to sulk.
THEN he got to watch the game in peace!
He still repeats these old patterns when dealing with BM. The problem is....he also does with SD because she has the same symptoms, and it's the only way he knows how to handle it.
The books I'm reading are very helpful. (The "Stop Negotiating with Your Teen" one DH will be reading next.)
Right now I am reading "Stop Walking on Eggshells" about "taking back your life" when you live or have a relationship (working or otherwise- ie BM's would fit into this category) with a person with Borderline Personality Disorder.
I highly recommend it to anyone dealing with a crazy BM, no matter what her "Diagnosis." Because it tells you both sides. It tells you about how they think, why they say what they do, what their projection (throwing their negative qualities at you, claiming they are actually "your" qualities and not theirs) stems from, etc etc.
I am already half way through.
I also am signed up for a teens parenting children with mental problems class, and am looking to go to a parental support group of mentally ill kids.
My sister inspired me here. She started with a program called IMPACT, when her son went through it (several times now) for rehab. They have family support meetings and she goes religiously. It has helped her to find ways to disengage from expectations that her son will ever overcome his addiction issues.
She also sees a therapist, and I think I am going back to my own as well.
It's sad that the mentally sound are the ones who seek the therapy to deal with the mentally ill who SHOULD be seeking the therapy. But according to a couple of different therapists I have talked to, it's highly common. Those who actually need it because they are causing 90 percent of the problem, don't think they do, or are afraid of it, etc.
Notice I said 90 percent...I know that we like to think it's "all them" all the time, but I have been wondering about my own "reaction contribution" for a while now. And in reading the BPD book, it covers that a lot. Not blaming you for developing your own coping mechanisms, but showing you that your unhealthy ones contribute to the borderline's retaliatory behavior at times.
GOOD READ. Get into their minds and perhaps we can find a way to get along with them better.
"Om Tare Tutare Ture Mama Ayurpunye Jnana Putin Kuru Svaha"
~Sita Tara Mantra
What is with these BMs?
BiPolar- Nacissistic Personality Disorder- Borderline Personality Disorder- Emotionally Abusive Personality- I think "stepping" sums it up beutifully...they ALL have FFLD (Freakin Fruit Loop Disorder)and they're just all crazy!
Lucky us. We're usually the ones who are left with the fallout and the mess when the children come over and are total emotional wrecks from all the damage these nuts have inflicted on their children. And the saddest thing of all, is that because it's mostly emotional and so hard to prove, having them removed from their permanentcustody is a challenge.
And in our case, even when the child does finally wise up on their own and leave, they still can't totally escape the tremendous guilt and emotional blackmail from the crazy woman. Who could ever imagine saying something like this to their children:
"If you don't come back home, I'm never going to eat again and then I'll die and it will be your fault." (to the SD who left at age 16)
"If you leave me, too (to the 2 remaining children, then ages 11 and 14) I'll have nothing left and I'll just kill myself and it will be your fault.
I swear, sometimes I think it would be easier if she would just physically abuse them- at least that way, we'd have hard evidence to
show to the courts! Plus physical wounds heal a lot faster than what these nut jobs are doing to their children!
For us Stepmoms, the road is very long and we do need a lot of support and encouragement. Counseling is the key. Together is best, but if your significant other won't go, get the help you need for yourself. And here's a great tip that saved us if you can find one in your area- Parenting Coaching. Not a counselor or psychologist, but an actual parenting COACH, who gives practical, non-nonsense solutions to everyday living with children. It's what helped my DH overcome his overindulgence divorce guilt and probably saved our marriage. It also helped him deal with the crazy, intrusive ex on a practical level.
"If you have never been hated by a child, you have never been a parent."
-Bette Davis
We won custody from BM ....
Well, after a year of pre-trials she conceded the night before our trial date. I've posted on this a million times.
If you really want to get custody from them due to mental illness, it's a LONG road. But it is possible. We had SD in therapy a year before we even filed for a termination of shared parenting.
We also released ourselves from attachment to winning. In our case we figured it was the extreme differences in our homes that caused a lot of chaos for SD. Of course in our opinion, we were the better home. BUT if the court found otherwise then we felt that was what had to happen first.
They didn't. Just the fear of having to have a psych eval was enough for BM to throw in the towel. Not for a year of course. But once SD's shrink gave a formal opinion about BM through the GAL report, BM caved rather than let a judge order her to therapy.
Sometimes it's just that simple (NOT easy, but simple. Black and White. As in Personality Disordered thinking!)
I am so glad we did it before SD's own PD started to really rear it's evil head. I don't think SD would have ever said she wanted us to have custody if given the chance now. Although...when she was fighting us over everything a month or so ago DH asked her if she was happier over there and she screamed NO DAD I DON'T WANT TO LIVE THERE! at him. So she must get that our normal is better than BM's crazy at least.
"Om Tare Tutare Ture Mama Ayurpunye Jnana Putin Kuru Svaha"
~Sita Tara Mantra
5TEENS - you are so right!!
5TEENS - you are so right!! After 12 years with his EX, my fiancee had to develop the wonderful skill of shutting down and shutting everyone else out when he is angry or faced with some sort of conflict. This can sometimes cause problems for us because I am definitely a "talker", I want to discuss an issue, resolve it or compromise on it and then move on - when he shuts down and refuses to discuss something it can be very frustrating for me. I just started counseling on ym own this past Monday and at some point will ask my fiancee if he wants to join me.
Good Luck Serendipity
It's so important that you stay strong and positive for your own self-protection first. A lot of men balk about therapy or counseling, so tread lightly when it's time to bring him in, but it's so much better if it can happen as a team. Luckily, my DH is the "talker" in the family. We've only been a couple 5yrs (married almost 4) and already:
*I've been to counseling by myself
*he's been to counseling by himself
*we've gone to couple's counseling
*we've gone to parent coaching (the best so far in yielding real
results!)
*4 of the 5 children have been in counseling
Gee, do you think we should consider having a live-in therapist?!
I guess that's what you get with 5 teens and a crazy ex-wife!
Hang in there. I hope it goes well for you.
"If you have never been hated by a child, you have never been a parent."
-Bette Davis
Entitlement Monsters made by NPD Moms
Unfortunately BM has made (her claim for all the credit) straight A students, award winners, sports players, and productive members of society. I would love nothing more than for one of them to chew me out but that would never happen because (to embarrass mommy) it's not allowed. What I'm saying is that they give me nothing to work with. I know, I know, boo hoo. But, I mean really they say nothing! If I (or even Dad) asks them a question the only response we hear is "I don't know". SERIOUSLY! "What did you do this weekend? I don't know" "What did you have for lunch today? I don't know?" I'm sure this is a reaction so that Mom won't get in "trouble" and they aren't sure at this point what they can say or who they can say it to. It really leaves me wondering how a straight A student can't remember what they had for lunch that afternoon!
On the flip side she (I will give her ALL the credit for this one) has made them into little entitlement monsters. That's a huge irritation for me. There are specific laws for new drivers in the state I live in. BM has told the kids both as new drivers in the past 2 years that it's OK to drive against these laws and it's all for her convenience. When called on not obeying the law this week, kid #2 responded "I thought that was just your rule." Ugh!
me too
My FH is the same exact way, I am also a talker and want to get it all out in the open and come to some resolution, my FH just kinda stops talking and hopes eventually I will just drop it..but sometimes it is an issue that can not be dropped. I think too that learning to deal with his crazy ex wife made him part of who is with me, but counseling is in our future too.
CRU I love the fruit loop comment!!!
"Better a diamond with a flaw than a pebble without one."
It can be so frustrating at
It can be so frustrating at times. I am not an under the rug sweeper and think that open communication is so important in a relationship. We can talk about everything else openly - except his children and the way he deals with his children. He gets very defensize and accuses me of thinking that he is a bad father. I know that he feels pulled in different directions at times but avoiding an issue isn't going to make it go away!!
Same guy?
SerendipitySM,
We must be married to the same guy. Any little mention of how I disagree with the way the children are and he's a bad dad! If I honestly thought that he was a bad dad I wouldn't have had children with him myself. Mostly what I have issue with is how he deals with Herrrrrrrr! I can't say it without growling! : )
LMAO!! We probably are
LMAO!! We probably are married to the same guy!! The thing that still amazes me about this site is how so many of our Hs or SOs say the exact same things to us almost verbatim. I love my fiancee but has always been way tooo laidback when it comes to his kids. I know he wants them to enjoy themselves and have fun at our house but that doesn't give them cartblange to trash the place and treat it like a hotel. This "funhouse" mentality contributed to both of his daughters failing or coming close to failing several classes this year. His youngest was failing 5 classes as recently as 2 months ago. The BM is more interested in winniing the popularity contect than she is in being a good mother.
The BM "Guilt Game"
It's amazing how many BMs play that game, isn't it? 'Our' BM has achieved master status in the art! I could not even imagine saying things like that to my boys or to my SDs.
You brought up a good one...not being able to "feed your brother".
I'm assuming the BM in your situation had another child after the divorce? That's the situation here. She LOVES to throw that one in the girls faces, "If I have no money, what will happen to your little sister?" (their 1/2 sister).
I would love for them to stand up to her and reply, "How about your NEW husband, her FATHER, taking care of her? OUR dad's not responsible for her!"
Or better yet, and like you said, "Get off your lazy butt and get a job!" (She's never worked for longer than a couple of months PT without quitting- it's TOO HARD to work!!) Boo-friggin'-Hoo
But, unfortunately, after years and years of being worn down by emotional abuse, they simply 'buy into' the BS. I refer to two of them as Cleopatra, because they are queens of denial! (I know, it's a coping mechanism). The youngest SD13, actually screamed at the oldest SD17, who lives with us, "just come back to mom's and get over it- it's not THAT bad!
"If you have never been hated by a child, you have never been a parent."
-Bette Davis
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