i know a few people here have but if u wouldnt mind letting me in on how it happened that way(whose choice & why), how thats worked out, for the NCP and the SK, and are there any legal repercussions for it, like can BM hold u in contempt for not following the terms of the parenting plan?
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maybe i should preface...
due to our situation, my FH has decided he doesnt want (aka we cant handle) visitation more than EOW, and bc during the wk we think is too much for the kid too during school. but we dont know exactly whats gonna happen next court date as far as whether or not the judge will order more. so we're thinking, well if he orders a day or 2 during the wk, we just wont exercise it...any thoughts would help...thanks!
my understanding
It is my understanding that the NCP is not required to exercise their parenting time. The court says this is what they get, but it is up to them if they use it or not. My BS16's father has "resonanable visitation" (since BS was 2) and has exercised maybe 20 hours in 14 years. BD7's father has EOW for 48 hours total and he rarely exercises the whole weekend, usually its more like 30 hours or even not at all.
I guess its sort of like a credit card, just cause you have it doesn't mean you have to use it.
I cant believe the judge
I cant believe the judge wont listen to your dh's request to NOT have visitation..
I really dont think they should be ordering anything. My dh has "reasonable" visitation.. its much more fluid. We live to far away for him to go see the skids during the week... but at one time he did go and take them out one night a week to the library and dinner. Not possible to do anymore because of the commute and the cost of gas.
well the judge didnt listen
to fiancees request to give up legal custody and not have visitation last time, and he ordered a GAL instead. now his son, not to crazy BB, has to be questioned about whether or not he has an inappropriate aka sexual relationship w his 3 yr old stepsister,all bc the BB is a vindictive lying bitch who likes to cause trouble and try to damage/ruin us for no reason, which is what we were trying to get away from by no custody/vistitation in the first place!
One time we wouldn't let sd
One time we wouldn't let sd come because she had a nasty case of head lice. Bm had an absolute FIT about it but at the end of the day there wasn't a thing she could do. She tried really hard to punish us later on by being very inflexible about any change in plans. But this was a one time thing and I'm not sure if you were meaning here and there or just stop taking visitation in general.
clarification
say the judge orders every tues and EOW...not getting her on the tues. we just cant handle BM that often and dont think a 1.5 hr visit during teh wk is worth it...which is what it would be by the time we get her after work and what time she would need to be in bed by. we just dont know if the judge is gonna order visitation or if he will let them try to mediate again so we're looking at all possible options.
Best interest of the child...
I think that's what the judge is after. He may know BM is up to PAS and he isn't settling for that. Sounds like you may have a decent judge actually.
I would say, if you can really put the needs of the child above your own during this case, that maybe your BF should take his BD for dinner and return her to BM, without you or SS. Is that possible?
I am thinking of this little girl with a crazy mom. She needs her dad to fight for what's right. It's not her fault that BM is loony. Your BF may be this child's only chance at a decent life.
“I never gave away anything without wishing I had kept it; nor kept it without wishing I had given it away.” ~Louise Brooks
thats the thing
BM isnt doing anything to this kid, shes just set on this vendetta against us...she takes good care of the kid, i mean, i dont agree w her parenting style of no discipline and letting princess rule the house but thats her choice and the kids not damaged bc of it. her whole family loves and takes great care of her. THATS what no one sees. we need her to knock off whats shes doing to US, nothing is being done to SD. BM wants him to put SD on a pedastol so she can feel like shes there too and im sorry but its not happening. why should his own son have to go thru all this for SD? nothing happened and its all lies. i see what youre saying but from where we are, its prob best for her to just raise her and thats it. i dont know, hopefully after this she will calm down and we can see her EOW wo all teh drama, but honestly, why should we have to deal w all this shit form her? it shouldnt be like this just so he can see his kid.
let me just say
that not seeing her is not what we want...but we cant go on living like this w BM getting away w all this harassment and bs shes pulling, we have no money fr a lawyer bc of all the CS he pays, we cant even afford to get engaged properly and go get married like we want, nothing extravagent, bc of all the CS, and we dont knwo how to make her stop. and now if all taht wasnt bad enough, she is trying to ruin a teenage boy who did nothing wrong...no one cares about what hes gonna go thru bc of all this and the therapy hes prob gonna need, and what if down the road once we have a baby, if we can ever afford it, it gets worse?? thats what we're looking at here. shes damaging our lives, and we shouldnt have to go thru all that for him to see his kid. she doesnt want him in her life. and shes prob gonna keep doing stuff like this until hes not anymore, one way or another. im just afraid its gonna get much worse.
Has the judge ordered high conflict parent coordination?
Our GAL recommended this for us. It didn't work of course, but because BM wasn't "getting her way" she quit mediation. DH and I went one more visit and offered to keep going if the mediator or GAL felt it would be helpful. They didn't obviously. Mediation only works if both parties are trying. BUT what this did was show the GAL that it was BM who kept holding up cooperation. OVER AND OVER. I understand your financial situation, but I would try to find any legal aid you can, and go through this.
What I mean about SD's being affected is...based on what you are saying, SD IS going to be adversely affected. I think if the judge is not signing off on your BF walking out on SD then the judge is onto BM and is really trying to do what's best for SD. If BM is spoiling this child, lying to this child about SS's behavior, encouraging SD to lie about inappropriate conduct, then THAT is abuse of SD, and will cause SD to have major issues later. That may be what the judge is concerned about and why he is so interested in getting to the truth rather than letting it all go away.
Does that make sense?
“I never gave away anything without wishing I had kept it; nor kept it without wishing I had given it away.” ~Louise Brooks
whats high conflict parent coordination
they did mediation and were almost ready to sign off when the latest abuse allegation happened. thats when my fiancee said u know what, i cannot continue to put my son and teh rest of my family at risk bc of her vendetta...so he tried to give up custody. the judge ordered the GAL. i do understand what youre saying and it does make sense...shes not encouraging SD to say anything or lying to her...shes taking what shes saying and twisting to make it into a lie...but SD has no idea of all this. spoiling the kid isnt gonna stop unless u get full custody which will never happen. and if we werent around, she wouldnt need to be doing any of it.
i understand but i dont understand why no one cares about my SS in all this and he has to go thru this for no other reason than she is a liar.
I really do feel for your SS
And am disgusted the courts don't care about his feelings about all of this. I wish you could sue BM for defammation of his character on his behalf. Maybe...SS could approach an attorney probono. Sounds sort of Hollywood, but it might work.
Poor kid. I am appalled that any woman would do this to her child or anyone else's. My sons change Anna all the time, and help give her baths. There's nothing wrong with a brother helping out and doing those care taking things for his little sister. It's disgusting whatever BM is twisting around.
“I never gave away anything without wishing I had kept it; nor kept it without wishing I had given it away.” ~Louise Brooks
yeah its heartbreaking actually
he loves his sister and thats it, u know? she kisses everyone when she leaves, and no one tells her to do this, in fact, i have told my fiancee several times not to make her, esp w me. i dont want that forced upon her, but she does it bc she loves us. it is sick that shes doing this, she told my fiancee, "i dont care about SS and u need to put SD first!" thats just not rite.
all we want is a nice life and we want sd to be a part of it but what price do we have to pay?
he has a call in to find out more details, and if he should get a GAL for SS and how much it would cost. he asked SDs GAL and he said, thats not necessary, we're just gonna have a little talk and if nothings going on its no big deal. wtf? yes it is to a 15 yr old boy.
we are really just afraid it will never end and it will only get worse. my fiancee is a good man, he took full custody of his boys when his ex wife just up and decidd she didnt want to be a mother anymore. and he didnt want to have SD but he has done nothing but take care of her, provide for her and try to see her bc she shis kid and look how hes being punished for it. im actually starting to cry just typing this...
High conflict coordination
Is for parents who can't do mediation. Which they may not order if all this is going on with abuse allegations and such. I'm not sure. We ended up in normal mediation due to who the court sent us to. I only know this from a therapist I know who does high conflict coordination and after I told her how the mediator was doing, she let me know that didn't sound right. The mediator was siding with BM a lot, stroking her ego, I think because she could tell that we were the more agreeable of the trio. So she hoped to reach BM by soothing her paranoia. Didn't work anyway.
From what my friend who is a therapist said, high conflict coordination gives the mediator permission to say their opinion, rather than just try to mediate between the two parents. So if the mediator thinks someone's playing games they have the power to state that.
I wish we would have been sent to someone who did that well.
But it all worked out.
I wish I could help you more.
“I never gave away anything without wishing I had kept it; nor kept it without wishing I had given it away.” ~Louise Brooks
our mediator
actually did pretty well and the got a visitation plan in place. but after the abuse thing, which is the 2nd time, first it was me which is why they were in mediation in the first place bc she pulled a motion to modify and wanted supervised visits bc SDs "attitude had changed since I came into the pic and I was mentally and physically abusing her", so he said enough is enough. and its bc of her that the GAL is ordered bc shes siding w my fiancee...the prob is, theyre only siding w the fact that he shouldnt have to give up custody, but not helping to do anything to stop her.
zenmom
do u think it would be a good idea to contact her lawyer and try to get another parenting plan drawn up to bring to court that day? i think my fiancee and crazy can agree on the plan, esp since the mediator did what she wanted and went against what they did anyway. is this even allowed, or is it up to the judge now based on teh GALs recommendations?
I honestly think
You should tell your attorney to ask the court for EVERYONE to take a court ordered psych test. That's what we did. It never happened because BM caved when the GAL report included some psych eval about BM from SD's psychologist. Now that I know what Paranoid Personality Disorder is, I think the DR was speaking in symptomatic code. Phrases like, "BM seems to have a self centered approach to relationships" "BM is more rigid and has difficulty seeing things from the child's perspective" "BM refuses to collaborate with BF" Then the shrink came right out with "SM and BF have an amazing ability to communicate, set age appropriate guidelines and rules, and collaborate well together."
So in essence we got a psych eval. And I think BM's attorney knew that the judge would order another, more specific ones based on SD's Dr's statements.
So....if your SD's BM is nuts, then perhaps a psych eval would scare her off.
“I never gave away anything without wishing I had kept it; nor kept it without wishing I had given it away.” ~Louise Brooks
mediator got back to us
she said as far as she knows, there are no charges pending against SS so she said to ask the GAL if it was absolutely necessary for him to speak w him. FH did, but now that we have the mediators words, maybe he will change his tune.
the plan is to go in sat and just tell the GAL whats going on...that SD is happy w us and whats shes doing is only to us and bc of her vindictive jealousy. he is also bringing what he wants in terms of visitation...we dont know how it will be handled but FH wants GAL to know his wishes.
honestly, she wants to raise her, and he just wants to see her and be able to be part of her life. as long as she quits the shit w us, i think everything will be fine. she loves that kid and i know shes well taken care of...i dont agree w her letting her have her way all the time but we cant change that, we can only do the best we can when we have her. and it would be really hard to take her away from her mom in the eyes of the court...what shes doing to us is horrible, but its not being done to SD and in the eyes of the court, its not bad enough to take away custody.
I think your mediator sounds...
like they're over stepping their position. But in this circumstance it's working for you so GOOD!
I think if your FH tells the GAL exactly what you said above, and doesn't get caught up in negatives about BM, then the GAL will be won over. Paraphrasing to make it sound GAL friendly....
I would say this-
SD is very happy here. We know BM wants to raise her and we are fine with that. We just want to see her and be a part of her life. If BM would stop these control issues and dragging this out through the court, and allow us all to settle into the schedule we both agreed to with the mediator, we think things would be fine."
Something like that. Make sure YOU guys sound completely calm and rational. Make it clear that you have SD's best interest at heart. When the GAL asks why then FH offered to give up custody I would say "Because of how the painful false allegations were negatively affecting the kids. We felt that was what BM is after, and therefore if we let SD go BM would be happy and stop all of this. We don't want to see SD or SS go through this their whole childhood."
It will be a nice contrast when BM sounds crazy and irrational. This was the approach we took with the GAL.
“I never gave away anything without wishing I had kept it; nor kept it without wishing I had given it away.” ~Louise Brooks
thanks zen
those are great suggestions...exactly how we feel except u are able to put it into much better words!!
on a side note, the GAL told FH that he doesnt need to talk to me, so im not going...dont u think thats strange? but honestly, im not going if he said he doesnt want to talk to me...obviously im not a big enough part of the family for him to think my opinion/side is valid.
Our GAL talked to me a lot....
But we were already married. So maybe that's the difference. If you are comfortable not going than that's all that matters. Our GAL came here though. Kind of interesting since my ex picked up my sons while she was here. I couldn't have planned that if I tried. He came in and chatted with me in the living room while he was waiting for the boys to get their stuff. Then we tell GAL that BM stops in the street and blares on the horn to pick up SD. Great contrast for GAL to see.
Goodluck!
“I never gave away anything without wishing I had kept it; nor kept it without wishing I had given it away.” ~Louise Brooks
yeah im alittle upset that im not involved
that he doesnt want to talk to me, esp since the first allegation was directed at me...and i think it proves even more that SS hangs in the balance here...hes not trying to see what our home life is like, hes asking SS if he molested SD, ya know? and meeting at his office...i just thought from what ive read that it was supposed to be handled more like yours was. im not involving myself where i obviously am not wanted, but i do not appreciate the insinuation that i dont have a place in the matter...oh well...im taking bella to the "bark in the park" so she can play w other doggies and have some fun! and i can get my mind off it, if only for a few hours bc it takes over my thoughts most of the day every day and im sick of worrying about it and thinking about it all...
thanks for the well wishes!
I agree that in this case
If the GAL doesn't feel the need to talk to you at this point, then I wouldn't push it. This happened to us with mediator, which surprised me (as well as our attorney who is a SF himself- THAT was cool. He really wanted me represented all the way through.)
Anyway, the first mediator we went to I made the appointment and we DH and I both went to the initial visit. The visits with BM of course I did not attend which was fine. I was really putting SD first, over my need to have input. Then when the court assigned a high conflict parent coordinator/mediator I was thrilled thinking, "Finally someone who won't take BM's crap!!!" WRONG.
I went to DH's first appointment with him and she excused my presence as soon as we walked in. Mentioned MAYBE she would talk to me later. I was so angry. Then she never invited or mentioned me again.
Well, after BM refused additional mediation and said, "just let the judge decide" DH asked the mediator if it would be helpful to meet one more time and bring me.
The mediator acted like "why didn't you mention that before! What a great idea!" She was very flaky.
So I go, and am my Zenmom self, telling the mediator I am trying to help SD and BM improve their relationship, explaining that anytime BM wants to exclude me I gracefully bow out, etc. How I try to get SD to realize that her mom is doing the best she can, and that I would really LOVE for their relationship to improve because all benefit. I use my ex, my sons, their SM, DH and me as an example of how I know that shared parenting can work, IF all the parents do their best to put their egos on the shelf and the kids emotional needs first. BUT that with BM, no matter what we do to try to communicate and cooperate, she attacks in return.
Well...turns out the mediator is a SM, but the kids were grown when she came along, so I really don't think she can get all these struggles of control/power play when they are still minors. BUT...I pass martyr/SM status with this mediator with flying colors. She even said, "I wish I would have talked to you sooner. I think I really understand BM much better now."
I told this to SD's psychologist who said, "Well...I don't know why it took her this long, I was pretty abrupt about my feelings about BM when we talked months ago!"
Oh well...it was just one step in the whole process and we made it through. It has convinced me to seek mediator training though. I'm pretty sure I could do a much better job than the wingnut we had. Although from what I hear from my cousin who mediates....this wingnut TEACHES the course! EEK!
“I never gave away anything without wishing I had kept it; nor kept it without wishing I had given it away.” ~Louise Brooks
u definitely should
i think u would be great...the mediator we had forced decisions upon them and drew up what she thought was best even when it was different from what they both agreed to w one another in front of her. i know she cant do this bc i called the courts b4 he went and they said the mediator is only a ref, she cannot impose a decision upon u and she cant force u into anything.
so this is why he cant agree to what SHE drew up...and she never got back to him! he called the day BM alleged abuse against SS and said i cant agree to this now...3 wks passed and she did nothing, all the while she had told them they could change it at anytime, even on teh day of the hearing...that day, she was late, didnt show and the judge had to have her called in.
also, i dont see how
the GAL could make a custody/visitation determination w/o talking to me or observing SD w us in our home...or am i off base? just thinking mayeb his job in this case is just to make sure that nothing is going on so the case can porceed as it was b4 she alleged this time...also found out the GALs are mandatory in any custody matter where there is an alelgation of abuse. im just so pissed we, especially SS, has to go thru this bc of BBs BIG FAT LIES!
It sounds to me that GAL is just following up on the allegations
Not making a custody recommendation. One thing I've learned about the custody case process is that each and every recommendation/decision is gruelingly slow- one flipping step at a time. And they are BABY steps. That's why even though everyone "cooperated" with the court all the way through our case, it still took about a year from start to finish. That included countless mediation sessions, pre-trial dates, and several GAL visits, letters, and phone calls.
“I never gave away anything without wishing I had kept it; nor kept it without wishing I had given it away.” ~Louise Brooks
thats what im hoping
hes just following up on the accusation, will see its unfounded, and the 2 of them can proceed like they were before she decided to lie again and involve the courts. also, i dont think she realized what she'd done bc she told the mediator something different and i doubt she dreamed it would come to this. hopefully her lawyer told her to quit the shit! maybe they can iron out the parenting plan rite there then...
Hmmmmmmm
The thought of giving up visitation is very tempting to a lot of couples. It is about personal boundaries. Where I live, the judge will not let you "walk away" from your child. Mothers often try to take visitation to make $$ off the SK but in your case-
This BM is causing some very serious things. YOur son is going to need therapy after being asked about sexual things with a younger child. The younger child may also need therapy. You can bet taht what is being said in the other house will be said in front of those kids.
If you want to save what you have with this man and the two of you ahve come to a decision-he can petition the court by sending in his demands and asking for an immediate court date.
Screw the GAL and screw the Judge really, they say it they work for the best of the child-I know this GAL isnt free. Neither is the mediator. You are talking thousands before this is potentially over.
If that is too much then petition tht court. In the petition make sure you put all reasons as to why the visitation needs shortened.
Make it all about the chlidren not about strain bt the two of you or anything like that.
PM me and I will give you the correct format and you can tell me what you are wanting and give further details....I will sort of help you put something together that looks professional and in the correct legal jargon.
Hey, just fyi....we still haven't heard from that mediator. Did you read my post earlier...give me your email on the PM you send and you will pass out after you read these things.
Some people do not know when to stop. When that happens, sometimes the only way to make them stop is by YOU stoppng them. Even if that means walking away. Seriously. Get a hold of me, been thinking of ya.
the problem is, we just dont
the problem is, we just dont know where anything stands and what may come out of all this. EOW would be fine IF, and its a big IF, BM would knock it off...the GAL said she wont be able to pull this anymore after having one phony abuse claim but honsetly, how can he say that? the courts arent gonna punish her, so why would she stop. its not that we dont wanna see SD, its just that the potential of ruining our lives, esp SSs, just isnt worth it. not to mention how SD is gonna be put in the middle down the road. rite now, shes not even 3 so she really doesnt know whats going on. but who knows if that will stop. BM is a hateful, awful person and my fiancee cant see her just being like oh okay i better knock it off, in fact, she may be really pissed off after court and try even harder. thats why we figured it woudl be best for everyone if he just didnt see her. BM wanted her, forced him into havingher, so she can raise her and willprob do a better job if we're not around for her to brainwash SD about us. but the courts dont see it that way, in fact, the GAL told my fiancee that the judge is pissed he wanted to give up custody bc that told him that his life is more important to him than hers...
Yes We Did it One Year
The boys' mother sees the boys every summer.
One year she didn't come get them as she didn't want to make the drive and couldn't afford the flight and they were too young to send by themselves (which I still refuse to do).
She wanted us to pay. I said to DH that she knows she has to do this every year so she needs to save up the money.
There is nothing in the contract that says DH has to pay for them to see their mother.
At any rate, while it was a beautiful summer for us as a family, she called every single day to complain. Don't care. It was worth it. That is what earplugs are for.
The down side is that the boys missed out on their mother's presence but you know what? She actually puts forth the effort to get the Skids now ...
"Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves." ~ Abraham Lincoln
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