saffron5567's picture

Any suggestions on this one?

Husband and I are moving to Italy for two years. SD26 declared she will "definitely be getting over there to visit" when she and husband visited his family (without me, of course) on the other coast. (Didn't ask; just declared.)

I know this is his daughter and two years is a long time for him not to see her. But she has been a real hellcat to me in the past and he did NOTHING to defend me. Now he sees her alone, visits his family alone with her but without me. It's just the way it's barely working now.

After her last and worst outburst (she was AWFUL to me), about two years ago, I told him she can visit us when we move there, but has to stay in a hotel.

Two years after that outburst, I still hate her, don't trust her and try to avoid her. She's insufferable and only nice to me when she absolutely is forced to be. Depending on the time of year, he'll be working and I will feel as if I have to avoid my own house to avoid her. I thought about taking off somewhere, but I have a dog so that might not be easy. But I feel guilty pushing the hotel thing because she has been less aggressive since - not nice, just less aggressive.

Any suggestions?


ItAlmostWorked's picture

Less aggressive is sadly

Less aggressive is sadly usually temporary. My hunch is you will have a bad time of it if she visits and you remain at home. Perhaps a nice restful B&B that allows pets would do the trick.

Does anyone on here have a story of improvement? In my case, just when I thought things were starting to go well, everything got exponentially worse.

saffron5567's picture

I pretty much just expect the

I pretty much just expect the worst from both of them because it's safe.
Husband says the fact that she got me an xmas gift last year was improvement, even if it was a regift bar of soap and a regift knitted scarf, both given to her by other family members the week before. She "wrapped" them in a computer bag we had moments before given to her as an xmas gift. She handed the bag to me, then stood and waited with her hand out for me to take the "gifts" out and give her new bag back. It was humiliating.

Yup, that's my story of improvement.

Lalena75's picture

Give them the web address for

Give them the web address for apartments apart for rental apartments there (just came back from Belgium and stayed in one of their properties with 6 of us and it was #1 less expensive than hotel rooms for all of us #2 a kitchen saved us hundreds in food cost as we didn't have to eat out, and #3 was great location clean spacious and fantastic location and a great company) Don't feel bad about not wanting people filling up your space if she wants to visit it's her vacation and not your responsibility to put them up. My sis offered her tiny home with her husband and 2 small children to us but I was not going to do that to her free living space or not.
http://www.apartmentsapart.com/

I am not an option

saffron5567's picture

But we've already told scores

But we've already told scores of other people they CAN stay in the apartment with us...it's huge, so it's hard to make an argument on space. If we're allowing friends to stay with us, we certainly should be allowing her to stay with us, except that friends don't treat me like crap. And anyway, we'll probably foot the airfare and the hotel even if she doesn't stay with us...

I guess I'm stuck.

realitycheckmom's picture

Except friends don't treat me

Except friends don't treat me like crap...and that is your reason for sending her to a hotel or wherever at her expense. Why should you be put out of your residence for a nasty person that treats you like crap?

RisingAboveIt's picture

EXACTLY!

EXACTLY!

Disneyfan's picture

Give her a list of local

Give her a list of local hotels. If she's normal, she won't to spend her time in Italy sitting in your house. A normal person would plan to visit as many famous places as possible.

Poodle's picture

Make sure you know roughly

Make sure you know roughly the time she intends to come over and book friends in fr that period. Or book friends to stay back-to-back. If your DH is like so many on this forum, he will never organize anything properly anyway and will leave it all til the last minute. So the ball is in your court to make sure she stays elsewhere whilst you swan around with friends.

It's nothing personal.

Whimsey6's picture

^^Agreed^^ You have a basic

^^Agreed^^
You have a basic right to feel emotionally safe and comfortable in your home. Take a stand; it can be done without making a big deal.
Should your DH broach the subject of hosting his daughter, simply tell him it doesn't work for you and change the subject or leave the room. (Another poster suggested this phrase, and I've found it really helpful)
The idea that you would devote time/energy entertaining ANYONE that mistreats you is just ludicrous.

* Out of suffering have emerged the strongest souls; the most massive characters are seared with scars.

** I'm not giving up. I'm transcending the situation.

Orange County Ca's picture

Considering you are footing

Considering you are footing the air fare I assume the step-daughter is not financially able to pay for lodings - or at least it would be difficult.

Also from what you said she is being minimally polite now.

So the door is now ajar and I'd exploit it to see if a truce can be worked out and obviously your allowing her into your home is a huge step forward.

Try to schedule her stay during pleasant weather when all of you can go places outside or at least away from home. Different places that is from your places. On days when they're not touring you can be taking the dog to the dog beach or whatever there is to do in Italy.

Although I'm a huge proponent of disengaging with kids I'm equally in favor of letting childish things be bygone. She's maturing and any attempt, however small, on the former childs part to open the relationship should be received. There is no point in carrying on a war when both sides are no longer willing.

I know have a working relationship with my steps because I didn't push aside their baby steps at reconciliation.

saffron5567's picture

Good point, Orange County.

Good point, Orange County. And when I see husband making baby steps toward better behavior that will make me feel like his wife rather than a third wheel in their cozy little setup, I may consider letting her stay there. But this time, I'm going with Sonrisa's suggestion and everyone else's that I deserve a safehaven.

In fairness, (and I realize now that I didn't make this clear in my earlier posts) it is not all the kid. A lot of it is husband doing stupid things to pit me against her and probably her against me - like saying "yes" when she had the nerve to ask him if she could have one of my wedding presents before I ever had it out of the box.

He has never set a boundary for her and now she's got no sense of where she should end and let the rest of the world begin. She's a mess. I would have to be absolutely out of my mind to want to be around someone who treats me as she has.

Thanks for the advice on this, everyone. I appreciate it.

stepdown's picture

My DH told SD she can have my

My DH told SD she can have my painting (I am an artist), she said she loves it, I said thank you and made a mistake commenting I got a bit tired of it since I did it awhile ago . At that point DH said "SD, honey, you can take it".

I am not surprised your DH gave her YOUR wedding present. My SD asked her dad at HER wedding in front of wedding party why isn't he buying her same jewelery he buys me.

hypovic's picture

ONCE..I found something from

ONCE..I found something from our wedding in DH's daughter's room in our home. It was nothing particularly of much value, but it was part of a fun kind of gift my brother and sister had put together for me and DH. I am so rarely sentimental, but they went to the effort, and it was actually quite useful. I had much use for it...still do.

I have no idea if DH gave it to her or if she took it herself OUT OF MY FREAKING DRAWER!

I dumped her crap out of it and took it back while she was not there. I never said a word to her or to DH. I did not ask. I did not care.

"Sometimes good command decisions get compromised by bad emotional responses." - Ben Linus, Lost

emotionaly beat up's picture

Saffron, DO NOT ever leave

Saffron, DO NOT ever leave your home to make someone who is rude to you feel more comfortable to visit. Wherever your home is, even Italy, it is your home, your haven and no one who dissrespects you should be welcome in it. You have said if she comes she is to stay in a hotel, so be it. You worry you have offered to let other people stay with you in the apartment, okay, so how many of these other people have been as rude to you as your SD has. I am sure the answer to that is NONE and that is why you invited them.

You need to tell SD seeing as your husband will not, simply this, I realize you do not like me, and so I have found a list of hotels in the city where we will be living for you to stay in if you decide to visit your father in Italy. You also need to let her know that you will not be paying for the cost of the hotel, so tell her you hope the hotels you have chosen, or the website you send her to is affordable for her, as you will not be paying to accommodate someone who hates you.

You need to see her for what she is, a woman who hates you. As wives we seem to think of these woman as our husband's children and do not ever look past that. However, the truth is, they are just men and women who hate us, and we should treat them as we would any other person who hates us. Would you leave your home if the next door neighbour liked your husband but hated you, would you leave your home if a friend wanted to visit your husband, but they didn't like you. Of course not, leaving your home for this woman is a big mistake. Every action has a reaction. You leave your house, she feels free to visit safe in the knowledge you won't be there, your reaction to all of this is a build up of resentment, her reaction to this, is she feels very comfortable in popping in because she knows she is chasing you out and she enjoying the power surge she gets from knowing that.

You need to discuss this with your husband and you need to tell him, if he wants to see his daughter and he cannot bring himself to tell her to respect you, then HE needs to leave his home to visit her. You are making it far too easy on these two to keep hurting you.

Orange County Ca's picture

Beware of people on this site

Beware of people on this site who would start or continue WWIII over the slightest snub. Not pointing fingers just sayin......

emotionaly beat up's picture

OCC, the slightes snub. Did

OCC, the slightes snub. Did you even read what the poster said.

Gabriels Mom's picture

I agree with both sides. I

I agree with both sides. I would never allow someone to stay in my home that hates me. However, I see no reason to completely ignore an opening to make a truce. It's the Libra in me Smiling So how about half way? Provided she does not completely revert back to being an a**hole prior to the first trip, her first trip out she can stay with you. Keep a list of hotels handy and at the first sign of a**holery you put her up in a hotel. Since this is not an expense that she will be expecting to pay maybe you can pay for her accomodations this ONE TIME. If she has to be moved to a hotel during this first trip then she cannot stay with you for any subsequent trips and she has to pay for her own accomodations.

"Life-It is sexually transmitted and is always fatal" ~Anonymous

giveitago's picture

I think I agree with

I think I agree with GabrielsMom Talk to DH and say you are willing to be agreeable but at the first sign of disrespect get an AGREEMENT with him that she goes to an hotel. He cannot then say you are being unreasonable, the girl may well have grown a little since you saw her last? Let go of the grudges, seriously, let it be! Once you start holding grudges, or harboring resentments, then it's too much negativity and it would be a shame to spend a vacation time in misery.

I forgive but I am damned if I'll forget!

stepmisery's picture

Considering their little

Considering their little gruesome twosome, what about telling DH that if SD comes, he is taking her on a tour of Italy. So the trip must be scheduled during his time off, even if only a long weekend with perhaps allowing her to stay either the first or last night depending on flight times.

Would you be comfortable with something like that?

SMH at the wedding present thing.

saffron5567's picture

Ohhhh, I'm liking this idea

Ohhhh, I'm liking this idea very much, Stepmisery. One of my big worries was being stuck with her while he's working, but I could negotiate that she only comes in the summer months -- I hear it's god awful hot over there, so that could take some of the spit out of her, especially when she insists on running all over the city in her tight short-shorts and skintight shirt!
You know, these comments are helping me figure out the terms to negotiate. He will break any of them if the kid asks, but at least I can sulk about it or...maybe...MAYBE even put my foot down!

Thanks, Stepmisery!

Lostinthemadness's picture

She runs about dressed like

She runs about dressed like that in italy unless shes really fat/ugly she is going to have bruises. Italian men pinch girls they like and it isnt gently.

`Tis better to stay quiet and be thought stupid, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

LizzieA's picture

First, I would do NOTHING to

First, I would do NOTHING to foster the visit, don't even mention it. And after reading your blogs, I'd probably plan a trip to another spot during her visit. No more hostess while they cuddle and coo! Gag me! You've got the full boat--disrespect (which maybe can change) but the mini-wife thing too? Ugh.

Italy is incredibly awesome, my ancestors came from there and I visited the birth spot a few years ago in the Tuscan mountains. Not sure where you will be, but hop on a train and go to Venice or Florence or Rome for the week. Or the coast!

I read your other blogs, and I too have crazy bio family. Not talking to 2 of my sisters and my mother is on thin ice. Over the past few years, I've had to learn a lot about boundaries and standing up for myself. My DH went ONCE to see his family without me (SD engineered a visit for GSK's 1st bday). I had a fit, it was very hurtful as they paid for his ticket (we couldn't afford to pay for mine because we'd booked tickets for 3 months later just before). DH felt emotionally blackmailed by it all. I told him never again and he agreed.

You're paying quite a price for this marriage. Is DH worth it the rest of the time? I hope so!

saffron5567's picture

Is he worth it? Been asking

Is he worth it? Been asking that a lot lately, as I've had a full plate of spineless husband/mini-wife in the past month.

Literally, the only thing I can say to that right now is...two years in Italy! (Really trying to look on the bright side...)

You know, Lizzie, when I read that you flipped out the one time your husband saw family without you, I think I'm crazy for putting up with this. But when I'm not on this site and I'm dealing with him, I feel like the pettiest, most pathetic person in the world -- like I'm jealous of dad giving more attention to my sister. I absolutely hate how crazy he makes me feel because I don't think many women would put up with this shit.

Thanks for your words. My inclination is to not foster more than negotiating the terms. I will leave the rest of to them, and I'm sure they will manage quite, quite well!

LizzieA's picture

Hmmm, did your dad favor your

Hmmm, did your dad favor your sister? If so, try to make peace with that---the situations are not the same!

What I do when I am questioning a situation is study it, analyze the dynamics, check with experts (books, therapists) for validation, and compare it to a healthy relationship. It can be pretty confusing because it's not always obvious what is going on and there is usually good mixed with bad so it's not black and white (like if he hit you). I've learned to listen to my gut, too, if I don't like something or am uncomfortable there is a reason!

In your case, it sounds like DH and SD form their own little unit when she's around, one that excludes you. These controlling manipulative SDs set up an "either or" situation where the DH flops in loyalty from wife to daughter instead of integrating both relationships into the whole picture. Blaming yourself for being jealous and feeling left out is muddying the waters. Don't forget she has been rude and awful to you so you are NOT imagining this! Picture if she was a nice sweetie--how would you feel about her in your house then?

saffron5567's picture

Nah, my dad favored himself!

Nah, my dad favored himself! And at 79, he has maintained his robust selfishness!

I expected to be first in my husband's life and perhaps that was my mistake. I never had a relationship with my dad that looked and acted more like an affair than a father/daughter relationship. I didn't sit on the sofa tickling him while the extended family watched in awkward disbelief, nor did I call him "Daddy" when I was 26. I didn't take vacations alone with my dad and later go on about how "everyone thought we were married." I never refered to my dad as "cute" when I was 25 and he was 55.

(Wow, that's worse than I thought now that I reread that last paragraph. Might have to study and analyze THAT.)

I guess my point is, I don't think this is spillover anxiety or jealousy from what my parents didn't give me. They had two other kids and their own miserable marriage to deal with -- they didn't spoil any of us!

I think another woman might not be bothered by this stuff at all. I think many other woman would. It's a weird creepy dynamic that makes me feel like I'm back in high school trying to keep the quarterback on my team now that I gave up my virginity to him.

I do often wonder how different this would be if my stepdaugher were decent rather than a mean girl. I think we all lost out on this one.

saffron5567's picture

You know, Sonrisa, I had a

You know, Sonrisa, I had a pretty crappy wedding too, although it wasn't my SD's fault (she didn't help, but so many worse things went wrong that she was small potatoes that day). I also have trouble thinking about my wedding without feeling I got royaly cheated. It sucked that one person ruined yours and now you are still dealing with his interference. I'm sorry that happened. One good thing for me is that the photographer screwed up so badly, I don't even have a single photo to remind me how shitty that day was!

I have no problem being deceitful to get around this situation. I will, however, stop short of poisoning the dear girl, of course! Smiling

sandye21's picture

I agree with EBU. Why allow

I agree with EBU. Why allow someone in your home who hates you and disrespects you? Why should you accommodate someone who dislikes and disrespects you by leaving your home and trying to find something to do? If DH wants to pay for their visit it's up to him but should be from HIS money, not yours. You do not owe this to anyone who treats you badly. Ya, it might be WWIII but who declared it?

StepAside's picture

I think our situations are

I think our situations are often the same but can vary to some degree. I have seen and experienced change post-disengagement. I think often the problem we have all experienced with crappy behavior with our adult stepchildren was partly our responsibility. Many of stayed passive or eager to please for too long and contributed to the notion that we are doormats. Hence, once a clean break (boundary) is made, there is a greater chance for at least more respectful behavior face to face. You have destroyed the familiarity she had with you and your presence.

My stepsisters are some of the biggest losers I've ever known. They gave my mom hell. After my mom disengaged (this was years ago before I was married), they changed how they act around her. They aren't all best friends but they know where the lines are. Likewise, since disengaging, I have noticed a more cautious attitude in my stepdaughters when it comes to being intentionally hateful to my face. I don't expect to be friends with mine ever but they are backing off.

I think you don't need to focus on your sd's visit till you start actually planning it. And of she's still a total bitch than stand your ground. But if she is showing signs of backing down and you continue to forbid her from your home that could be trouble. I agree with one of the above posters. She will be in Italy! She'd be gone everyday. Just stay home. But I do believe there is a chance that she has gotten the message by now that you are done playing games.

"Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet." - Napoleon

hypovic's picture

Let go the guilt. Even my

Let go the guilt. Even my husband would tell you that. She has been an ass. Consequences are associated with that or should be. Too bad for her and her behavior. Now, she doesn't get a free lodging ride in Italy.

I would not have her stay with me. No way.

"Sometimes good command decisions get compromised by bad emotional responses." - Ben Linus, Lost

saffron5567's picture

That's what I keep thinking:

That's what I keep thinking: her behavior in the past, should have consequences. You make an enemy, you don't get a free trip. Unfortunately, her father has never shown her any consequences for her bad behavior, so this would have to come from me. That will put me soundly in the evil stepmonster role. So be it. Husband owns this too, as his behavior even just yesterday put her first and left me in the wings again.