Vanessa Winthrop's picture

Immature 25 year old Undermining Step-Daughter

I really could use some advice. My 25 year old immature step-daughter whose own mother enables her and lives her own lifeher to please and give to her having never moved on as this daughter has successfully prevented her from developing another relationship..and guess what..my husband and I have been married 12 years...she has always been a problem but is also trying now to come between us. She calls her Dad several time during the day..even works at the hospital where her Dad is Director of HR as a new RN grad...calls our house to his cell at least twice a day and totally ignores and undermines me as her step mom. Her Dad is aware but I don't think he knows how to handle her effectively. Should I step in and text her and tell her that she needs to call less and respect our marriage...taking the bull by the horns myself as it is impacting on my life, my home and what I consider a disruption to our privacy! She calls leaving for work and on her way home from work, no boyfriends as they could not afford her. Driving a Mercedes she leased!Help!!


smdh's picture

No you should not. It is your

No you should not. It is your dh's place to put boundaries in place. She is his daughter and she is calling him. It is affecting you only because he is allowing it. Just because someone calls/texts doesn't mean anyone has to respond. The disruption is not her calling. It is him responding. Your problem is with him. Not her.

Vanessa Winthrop's picture

THANK YOU..I SEE THE VALIDITY

THANK YOU..I SEE THE VALIDITY OF YOUR POINT BUT SENSE THAT SHE HAS HIM WELL TRAINED LIKED PAVLOV'S DOG! The phone rings, he knows it's her and feels he has to answer it immediately. What I have insisted that he does not do is keep his phone by the bed. I refuse to sleep with her per se and have her waking us at 7:00AM when she gets off work! These kids need to get a life beyond their parents at 25. When I was 25 i had two kids and live several states from my parents and had to make my own decisions, develop my own coping skills and am stronger and better able to survive on my own..amd this is how I raised my 41 y/o daughter and 39 y/o son who are both very self-sufficient and loving and respectful towards my husband.

Vanessa Winthrop

LilyBelle's picture

"SHE HAS HIM WELL TRAINED

"SHE HAS HIM WELL TRAINED LIKED PAVLOV'S DOG!"

The parent is supposed to train the child.... he allowed her to train him. He needs to man up.

~Lily

Drinking alcohol makes you an alcoholic? I drink Fanta, so that must mean I'm Fantastic!!

"I am a Bitch-- Beautiful, intelligent, tough, charismatic, and hell no you're not messing with me."

Vanessa Winthrop's picture

Yes, he needs to man up and

Yes, he needs to man up and hopefully will when I insist on this after his illness and if we can't do it together I will insist on counselling. I really want to save our marriage!

Vanessa Winthrop

Anon2009's picture

I agree, Dad needs to take

I agree, Dad needs to take the lead on this, ask her to stop calling at such an inconvenient time, and work with her to find a better time that would work for both of them and not inconvenience anyone.

Also, it might be a good idea to change your steptalk username. There have been posters here whose stepkids have found them on this site, and read their blogs.

Chapter 3, Ecclesiastes, vs. 1-8

Vanessa Winthrop's picture

How do you know this is my

How do you know this is my real name? She will never guess this in a million years!

Vanessa Winthrop

Vanessa Winthrop's picture

Thank You, I am seeking

Thank You,

I am seeking Christian counseling as well as my hubbie has been ill and at the end of treatment having done very well and the councelor is aware of this and we are trying to come up with solutions once he is feeling better but I am also looking for answers from laypersons as well who have experienced and dealt with this sort of thing. I would like to be direct with her as she needs to know that she is invading our privacy and also seems to call whenever we are out for dinner which has been rare lately. Last time she sat with her back to me and only talked to her father so this is why I don't invite her over to our home. I have the mortgage on this place and expect to be repsected and have peace in my home! My home is and should be my sanctuary!

Vanessa Winthrop

Vanessa Winthrop's picture

PS I am so sorry that you, as

PS I am so sorry that you, as well, had to experience this! It is not fun and when a vow between 2 people is made to love, honor and cherish til death do us part...I take this very seriously along with those other words of upmost importance..What God has joined together...let no man put asunder!!!

Vanessa Winthrop

Vanessa Winthrop's picture

Of course she knows what she

Of course she knows what she is doing. She wants to come between us like she prevented her Mom from devloping any relationships so she can have both her parents to herself. If he fails to call her back she just keeps trying.

Vanessa Winthrop

Superdad454's picture

I agree with the others that

I agree with the others that have said that it's not on you to tell him or her anything.
You can point out that he doesn't HAVE to reply or answer every call but pick your battles. If you are sitting on the couch watching TV and the texting or calling doesn't really interfere, don't address it, unless he is talking over a show you are into, then turn it up or ask him to go talk in another room. However, if you are at dinner on a date, or in a movie, or in bed, by all means tell him he can let it go to voice mail or respond to the text later, it won't kill her.
My SD22 does the same kind of thing, she texts all the time about random crap, and if Mom doesn't respond IMMED she starts to freak out and bomb her phone implying that Mom is "being rude" by not responding. Of course if Mom needs to contact SD22 and she is busy or chooses not to respond, she will simply ignore calls/VMs/Texts for hours and just state that she was busy or didn't feel like responding.

Baby steps, just get him used to NOT responding on occasion, and let him discover that her meltdowns over it will pass and not actually hurt him/her and he will be able to do it more often.

"My father loved us, but he wasn't IN love with us and I know he would have sacrificed one of us if it meant teaching the others a lesson for doing something tremendously stupid." Billy Gardell

Vanessa Winthrop's picture

It appears that there is alot

It appears that there is alot of long-standing guilt related to the divorce but since that time he has been a role model dad and probably has done more for her all these years than an actual live at home Dad. He has nothing to feel guilty about AND she is not the only child of divorced parents!! I appreciate everyone's commments and am still open for suggestions and will tell you that my fingers are moments away from texting her and just laying it on the line and ask that she not call our home so often and so early and request that she respect our marriage and see where that goes.

Vanessa Winthrop

Vanessa Winthrop's picture

Turning her back to me when

Turning her back to me when visiting us, and only facing and talking to her dad was NOT treating me like ////?

Vanessa Winthrop

Vanessa Winthrop's picture

I am thinking long and hard

I am thinking long and hard about this one! Thank You!

Vanessa Winthrop

Superdad454's picture

Well the "Please do not call

Well the "Please do not call before *:** because you wake us up" IS reasonable IMHO, but still better if Dad can be the one to tell her this and not you. There is NOTHING wronmg with telling someone not to call before *:** or after *:**, hell I bitch out ANYONE that wakes me up and have told both my mom and my son NOT to call be before 9AM on weekends or after 10PM on ANY night.

"My father loved us, but he wasn't IN love with us and I know he would have sacrificed one of us if it meant teaching the others a lesson for doing something tremendously stupid." Billy Gardell

LilyBelle's picture

Sometimes, men need to have

Sometimes, men need to have the tables turned on them in order to see a point.

I would sit down with him and tell him you feel his daughter's constant contact is interfering with your relationship and give your reasons. Try to set some parameters of when phone calls are appropriate, how long, etc...

For me, when I was a SAHM for a while before the divorce, I turned the phone off in the evenings.... that was family time for me, my husband, and our children. If I wanted to talk with my mom, my best friend, whoever, I did it at times that wouldn't cut in on family time.

If your DH won't agree to set some boundaries, he may need an object lesson....

you mght Get a friend or relative to whom you are close and with whom you can have lots of conversation, someone that is a totally appropriate person to talk on the phone..... NOT a member of the opposite sex. Start spending lots of time on the phone with this friend. Let him experience you doing the same kind of thing. Don't say anything about it, or let him know you are doing it on purpose.

If he doesn't get upset by it after a month, then he will not be able to see your point because he doesn't find it to be a problem. But, if it does bother him, then allow him to tell you what the parameters should be for accepting phone calls from your friend. Don't make any suggestions- simply ask him what he expects of you. Be sure you understand all his expectations clearly. Then, when he is happy with the agreed upon solution, you will have a set of expectations that are to be followed regarding phone calls. And you can say, "I'm sure you will have no problem following these same expectations with your daughter. After all, I know you are too good a guy to demand someone to do something that you are not willing to do yourself."

~Lily

Drinking alcohol makes you an alcoholic? I drink Fanta, so that must mean I'm Fantastic!!

"I am a Bitch-- Beautiful, intelligent, tough, charismatic, and hell no you're not messing with me."

Vanessa Winthrop's picture

OK!! All right, all

OK!! All right, all ready..the majority of nays win and I won't do it and have duc-tape bound around my fingers so I can't!! I know it will P/// her off and she will run right to Daddy who does not need anymore grief in his life at this point in time and realize that he has to be the one to set the limits and boundaries. We will have to talk this thru eventually but I fear the rejection that might come with his inability to hear me out. He hates confrontation at all levels but people can't walk all over us, either! I am always the one to not so courteously ~ rapidly end a conversation w/ an unwanted caller. No prob! No guilt! as my privacy is being invaded.
I am hoping also that what goes around comes around and that the little wench will have a rude awakening in life somewhere along the way. Funny though as she is saving for a wedding that will most likley never take place as long as she is still so emotionally dependent on her parents. She does not even have a boyfriend nor does her vindictive mother. The saying goes that the apple does not fall far from the tree! Why was this in the stars for me?? I bother no one!!

Vanessa Winthrop

Vanessa Winthrop's picture

Tried that one and

Tried that one and immediately fessed up as I feared in trying to silence the phone I may have deleted messages so I told him amd actually he was not mad. Better that way but what works is turning up the heat 1st thing in the morning and then the d/// phone can't be heard! I heard it and ignored it. Poor baby had to wait for 2 hours before he called her back! AWWWWWWW!

Vanessa Winthrop

Vanessa Winthrop's picture

Tried the dependency thing

Tried the dependency thing and how it is halting her ability to mature but seemingly he did not latch on to that!

Vanessa Winthrop

Vanessa Winthrop's picture

More excellent food for

More excellent food for thought. I have nursed him through a serious illness for 6 months and should I not recieve some credit and recognition and above all respect for all this 24/7 care? The doctors feel that my care worked miracles for him as my former career was that in nursing before I retired to a full time musician and teacher of music. Things are really off based and out of quilter!!

Vanessa Winthrop

Vanessa Winthrop's picture

T'is my love and passion! So

T'is my love and passion! So glad I had the opportunity to leave nursing after some 27 years to plug full speed ahead with my music performances and teaching!I am so glad in that respect that I never gave it up in the interum while working full time in my other career that was so demanding and stress provoking which at times seemed like the sane thing to do but I carried them both all these years and the music fianlly won out! Sometimes 4-5 gigs a week, and to awaken at 4:45 to get to work the the next AM! So glad that part of mt life is finally behind me!

Vanessa Winthrop

Poodle's picture

hypovic a lot of these DHs

hypovic a lot of these DHs are different from yours. I know mine is. They are unconsciously using the SD to put down the DW and they do secretly welcome and encourage the calls. For example since I put my foot down last month and led my DH to understand that SD23 is not welcome in my home, she calls him virtually daily and he goes outside the house ostentatiously to speak to her in private. I am awaiting marital counselling (I have asked him to arrange it and, as it is free with his employers, I am happy to leave him organising this for the moment) and I expect that once it commences, I will get a tirade from him about how he needs to have a relationship with her and I am allegedly preventing it etc, etc. I'm sure a lot of guys are like your DH too and have their balance right between their parenting and spousal role, but you need to know others' DHs aren't necessarily so sussed.

It's nothing personal.

sthomas3372's picture

"I expect that once it

"I expect that once it commences, I will get a tirade from him about how he needs to have a relationship with her and I am allegedly preventing it etc, etc."

Poodle - get ready for it. We've been to 4 different counselors (all Christian counselors, because DH is a pastor). It is going to be your fault - you are trying to make him choose between his family and you. OSD is not welcome in our home - DH and I agreed on it because of the trouble she's caused - but he hasn't told her yet. Why? I think he's afraid - he hates conflict.

Anyway - just be prepared. Be careful of the statement "There's a difference between parental and marital love". A counselor we saw said that, and DH brings it up just about every time we have a fight. We are even seeing a counselor that specializes in stepfamilies, and even she said that it is not right for me to ask him to cut ties with her (which I haven't done). I just want her to stop calling our house (she only calls when she needs something), and I want DH to turn his phone off when we are doing something together - there is nothing she has to say that is that important. Whatever you say to the counselor - be prepared to have it turned around into how DH is the victim. The counselor we are seeing is a SM herself, but even she doesn't get it. I think the problem with the counselors is that they aren't living in our situations. Yes, she may be a SM, but I'm sure she hasn't gone through half the crap that we have.

Poodle's picture

Gosh thanks for the warning

Gosh thanks for the warning sthomas. Sad

It's nothing personal.

Vanessa Winthrop's picture

St.thomas,perhaps you need

St.thomas,perhaps you need another counselor! Mine does seem very well to have a handle on our situation and point blank does not seem to be offering alot of hope for us. The goal will be to get him to come in once he is feeling better and during this time I am coming up with my way to approach him first and setting some deadlines for my approach times and results should they not pan out as expected. I refuse to have my SD come as an option as I know that this will just fuel the attention she is craving. I know she is vindictive and if she knows there is a problem she will take steps to personify it further in hopes of my throwing in the towel. When my DH had his procedure to determine the extent of his illness I was hoping SD and I could spend the day together to grow closer and even made her lunch. Do you know that she showed up with her BM?? Said she was sick ~ tearfully and that her mother did not think it safe for her to drive. Well, my hair stood up on its end and I left my DH side and went to the hall, was friendly, acknowledged that my SD was ill and promptly looked at her mom and said her name and told her that "you don't need to be here ,stating that SD was a big girl and that I would see to it that she got home...offerred options and let the two of them discuss it. Well, SD came back to the room crying and told me I should not have talked to her BM that way and propmtly left, with her BM and they both went home and boy was I glad!!! AN RN and all she could do was think of herself and not her sick father and all that he was going through! Her motive...for her BM to see her BD! Well, it didn't work and because I am the one to set limits and boundaries...I'm the bad guy.So these next few weeks should be very interesting to say the least. Good luck to you and seriously consider a counselor who is well versed in seeing both sides of the coin and understanding what SP go through!

Vanessa Winthrop

sandye21's picture

Glad to hear you handled it

Glad to hear you handled it as you did - good for you! It is sometimes hard to beleive these SDs have as much nerve as they do and that a person can be that self-centered but I have been just amazed with what my SD has pulled. It did not occur to your SD if she was too sick to drive she could possibly place he Father in danger if what she had was contagious, or make him miserable with her own complaints. A true narcissist in action. I hope you totally disengage from this one.

emotionaly beat up's picture

Someone said that it was not

Someone said that it was not all daddy's fault and it is not always about the parenting (something along those lines). I disagree yes when they are 25 chances of teaching them and moulding them are slim to none and the teaching days are gone, but who got them to 25 and turned them into dependent 25 year old children instead of young independent productive 25 year old members of society. Parents who indulged them and tried often for years and years after a divorce to "make up for divorcing the other parent"

I am on the side of don't text her. If dad cannot handle this alone, then HE could speak to her face to face in your prescence and say, by the way don't call me at whatever time ie: 7am it is far too early and we are busy getting ready for work in the mornings, unless it is an emergency, 6pm you interupt our dinner (unless it's an emergency),whatever you think you can handle, maybe it would be easier for him to just start by placing some boundaries on the times, and amount of phone calls, and as I said deliver this in your presence that way he has some moral support and if she starts on him in your presence, well treat her as you would any other person who is disrespecting your husband in your presence.

However while I like you felt the same urges to just pick up the phone and let SD have it, I didn't I felt it was my husband's place to set boundaries in regards to our marriage on his own daughter just as it was my place to put boundaries on my children. Now, how did that all work out, he failed to set any boundaries and after 8 years of being abused by his daughter I finally banned her from my home. So, was it successfull leaving him to do it, NOPE. I will say this for sure, if this situatin goes unchecked, it will get worse and worse and DH has to be involved in checking it.

emotionaly beat up's picture

Your parents raised you to be

Your parents raised you to be who you are. You left home at 18, clearly raised to be an independent young woman, whether by good or bad parenting. Let me explain, I married at 17 as my parents were alcholic so I wanted to get out. However, due to their parenting I was a strong independent woman. However, had my parents done as so many parents seem to do these days, never allowed me to take responsibility for my own actions, had I not learnt actions have consequences, then things would have been different. So while I do not blame the parents at all for every single action of the child, there are some occassions such as these step situations where clearly the parents are encouraging poor behaviour from the SK - as in this case. He fails to tell SD so much as 7 am phone calls unless in an emergency are not on, so SD makes the calls, whose fault is that.

I think this 25 year old has been raised in a similar fashion to my own SD - the Princess of the famiy and pretty well used to getting her own way. She according to the poster has interfered in her mothers realtionships and put paid to them as well.

However, looking at it from your point of view I am thinking that you feel the SD is responsible for her behaviour and we should let dad off the hook after all SD is 25 and she knows what she is doing. I am not condoning SD behaviour, but I honestly believe it takes two two to tango, he is the parent doesnt' matter if she is 25 or 85, and he needs to set boundaries about what SD will do in his home, to his marriage, and how many phone calls he will accept from her and at what times. SD Can ring him every two minutes if she wants to, no one can stop her - he however does not have to take every call, and in this case it is upsetting his wife, so it is more his responsibility to sort it out than SD's because it his wife and marriage this is affecting, not SD's.

Poodle's picture

I can see what you mean in

I can see what you mean in certain marriages and families hypovic, but I feel that in my family at least there is a group dynamic going on with groups joining together in complex patterns. I think Stepaside describes this very well with her RA analysis. And in my sort of situation, which a number of wives seem to have, there is a complex triangulation scenario where the skid tries to undermine the stability of the marriage (perhaps cos they saw that happening with their parents) and the DH COLLUDES with that in order to meet some immature need of his own, maybe, again, because he thrives on disharmony and undermining his wife and is repeating his game with the BM, maybe he is paying the SM back for some dissatisfaction in his marriage, maybe out of guilt to the SD for breaking apart her family as a child, who knows. But these people do collude with each other and of course, we collude too as you say. Such a lot of this is unconscious. But I do refuse in my case to project all the blame for this onto my SD. That is letting the adult man off the hook. The adult DH in this OP's situation just has to say no, doesn't he? Just not answer the phone every single time to the expense of his relationship. It's not rocket science. Why isn't he doing it a few times in a week if everything is so only the SD's fault?

It's nothing personal.

Vanessa Winthrop's picture

Sorry you are going through

Sorry you are going through this similar mess and I hope for your sake that it gets resolved real soon before you are forced to take action.I am usually very tactful when I speak and rarely lose it.I hope he will consider joint counselling when he is 100% up to par. I feel that this is the only way it is going to work.

Vanessa Winthrop

20YearsAsAStep-Mom's picture

I'm with you Poodle. My DH

I'm with you Poodle. My DH is as guilty as SD in the RA situation that I now live with. It has been going on for years but has escalated in the past 3 -4 years. There must be some sick sense of importance that they both feed off of by dissing me. Not sure why exactly, but my life is living hell right now. SD now calls every day at suppertime and DH will continue to chat with her for as long as they both want. What can I do about - NOTHING as long as DH wants to chat. If I ever asked her not to call at suppertime, sheesh I think they both would tar and feather me. It is a sick game to SD and DH is just so enthralled in the attention and admiration from SD that he can't see what is going on. DH is away right now so I am having some peace, but once he returns the war is back on. If things do not change in the coming weeks/months I will leave. His last chance is slowly running out.

So back to the OP - I like the idea of DH stating the boundries in your presence. No secrets. ONce there are secrets shared between DH and SD things go downhill fast and very difficult to undo. Good luck.

Vanessa Winthrop's picture

I wish that I could get him

I wish that I could get him to set some parameters in my presence. The last time I warned him that I had a sense that and mind you...I started the conversation on a positive note...I realize just how much you love her but it is obvious as to the way you recently was her treat me that she does not want to be a part of my life so in that case..BE CAREFUl as I suspect that she is trying to come between us just the way she was able to successfully sabbotage her mother from having relationships and due to his illness his comment was I have other things on my mind right now...so in a sense blew me off....the woman who has cared for him 24/7 for 5 months during his illness and successfully seen him through it! Is this what I deserve after all my selfless help, love and devotion? This is why I sought counselling.Could this have been worded any better?

Vanessa Winthrop

20YearsAsAStep-Mom's picture

I think the sooner you tell

I think the sooner you tell him how it really is the better. It sounds like you said it gently but accurately. I truly wish i had spoken up sooner. So much damaage has been done now, I don't know if we will ever recover.

Orange County Ca's picture

No offense here but do the

No offense here but do the women in his life run things?

You may have married him because of the same traits that you're complaining about here. Just a thought.

******************

I've observed humans for 70 years and dogs for 10. I prefer the dogs.

Vanessa Winthrop's picture

No...this is not at all the

No...this is not at all the case.

Vanessa Winthrop

thetrueone's picture

take action you need to take

take action
you need to take the bull by its horns
take no crap from anyone
tell her to respect
tell her not to undermind you
tell her not to damen you
from what i heard she is a rude disrespectful CHILD
so you need to treat her as such

Vanessa Winthrop's picture

Thank You..in some ways I

Thank You..in some ways I feel like I really don't have much to lose if I do.

Vanessa Winthrop

Vanessa Winthrop's picture

Augusta, perhaps you have

Augusta, perhaps you have never been where many of these writers who share their painful stories have beem. Years of hard effort and good intentions in an attempt to try to be a good step-parent! Also the reality of often having to take a back seat trying earnestly to NOT come between a child and their biological parent, without success only to see this being taken advantage of and getting more and more out of hand as these kids get older and wiser and more and more manipulative as is often the case. These childrens' brains are often pre-programed by a vindictive ex-spouse and so to begin with you are almost figting a losing battle, yet you push on for the sake of your marriage respecting the vows you made to each other. It can get very complicated and if you are anything like me...don't really want to see a battle ensue and honestly don't want to hurt anyome, above all my husbamd.

I will not go away until my issue is resolved after entertaining all the feedback recieved!

Vanessa Winthrop

Vanessa Winthrop's picture

Was actually speaking in

Was actually speaking in "generalization" about not going away until I read all the input and then formulated a plan on how to proceed and so far have held my impulse to call or text her. I felt the trueone was blantantly being honest maybe having had a situation such as this and unable to handle it in the past as to tell you the truth..she has angered me to that extent many a time time.....and to get right down to her level and let her have a taste of her own medicine...has often seemed tempting but I know her BD would not approve and have not of course acted on it. She has undermined me, she has ignored me, and I am sure has damned me to her mother and friends. I have seen her act out and it is not pretty. Your comment just seemed as if there was not much to back up what you were trying to say. It's OK and sorry I came across so defensivley!

Vanessa Winthrop

emotionaly beat up's picture

Hypovic our parents raised

Hypovic our parents raised you to be who you are. You left home at 18, clearly raised to be an independent young woman, whether by good or bad parenting. Let me explain, I married at 17 as my parents were alcholic so I wanted to get out. However, due to their parenting I was a strong independent woman. However, had my parents done as so many parents seem to do these days, never allowed me to take responsibility for my own actions, had I not learnt actions have consequences, then things would have been different. So while I do not blame the parents at all for every single action of the child, there are some occassions such as these step situations where clearly the parents are encouraging poor behaviour from the SK - as in this case. He fails to tell SD so much as 7 am phone calls unless in an emergency are not on, so SD makes the calls, whose fault is that.

I think this 25 year old has been raised in a similar fashion to my own SD - the Princess of the famiy and pretty well used to getting her own way. She according to the poster has interfered in her mothers realtionships and put paid to them as well.

However, looking at it from your point of view I am thinking that you feel the SD is responsible for her behaviour and we should let dad off the hook after all SD is 25 and she knows what she is doing. I am not condoning SD behaviour, but I honestly believe it takes two two to tango, he is the parent doesnt' matter if she is 25 or 85, and he needs to set boundaries about what SD will do in his home, to his marriage, and how many phone calls he will accept from her and at what times. SD Can ring him every two minutes if she wants to, no one can stop her - he however does not have to take every call, and in this case it is upsetting his wife, so it is more his responsibility to sort it out than SD's because it his wife and marriage this is affecting, not SD's.

sandye21's picture

What would you do if you did

What would you do if you did not have the support of your DH when you 'took care of things' yourself? If, when you took care of things he accused you instead of being too harsh and unaccommodating? The problem with a lot of us is that we have been used as a scape goat by the skids and DH has gone along for the ride becasue HE doesn't want to be the brunt of their anger. Better us than him. I agree - the marriage should be a partnership and truely believe the marriage is in trouble if it is not. If the marriage is a partnership, DH should take his share of the responsibility to set limits. If he does not I DO blame him. When she calls his cell phone in the middle of dinner or when he is alone with you it is his responsiblity to shut the phone off or take care of the message at a later time. If they speak on the phone when you are not present, it shouldn't make any difference to you.

emotionaly beat up's picture

Teachers, coaches, other kids

Teachers, coaches, other kids or their parents or other human beings don't teach them they are the centre of the universe either, they learn that at home.

emotionaly beat up's picture

Vanessa I too have read the

Vanessa I too have read the true one's intersting post and Augusta was definatey not meaning that previous post for you, she is genunine.

Vanessa Winthrop's picture

Emotionally beat-up...I

Emotionally beat-up...I apologized to Augusta and hope she accepted my apology for getting so defensive yet agreeing with some of what was offerred by the trueone amidst my fits of rage and anger and desires to not get mad, but to get even. That description of her WAS really quite accurate! Thank You and I have taken to heart alot of what you have written as well!

Vanessa Winthrop

Vanessa Winthrop's picture

Augusta..I tend to be alittle

Augusta..I tend to be alittle naive and the light of day does not always dawn as it should. You know another thought I had was the realty that these immature, adolecscent- acting grown ups, now our Step-children whom we have inherited and in have in so many ways adversly impacted on our lives....are tomorrow's leaders!!! It seems to be the same scenario played out over and over again about their total lack of responsibility, respect, coping mechanisms and problem solving abilities. These kids have for the most part been helicoptered by their parents and in the land of princesses, piercings,costly proms, limos etc.that sense of entitlement is paramount in their thinking PLUS parents now are totally accepting the full brunt of college education and CARS!! I had a student look at me like I was crazy when I suggested that he/she do some little tasks around the house to show gratitude for the piano that was purchased and given earlier before the child's birthday. My children of divorced parents paid back thier college loans and it took them years but they did it and went on to obtain additional degrees on their own.
When it comes to stress and making a decision the first thing they do is get on the phone and complain to their parents or ask for help....adult children!! They just can't take any pressure that causes them to have to think or fend for themselves...and these are tomorrow's leaders and the adult children that we have inherited!!

Vanessa Winthrop

Vanessa Winthrop's picture

Augusta...surreal yes and for

Augusta...surreal yes and for sure he has chosen the perfect profession I have to say! I have never seen such a sick, inept society of young ones as today where parents lick their every wound and yes...feel as if they have to explain themselves away to their kids so as not to upset or God forbid,inflict psychological damage to them in some way. When I was growing up no meant no and there was not always an explanation! I receievd the hand me downs of clothes, toys and bikes of older siblings and cousins and was grateful for them and never questioned this. Desserts were on weekends only and there was never enough for 2nds re:meals! Both parents worked hard and we were taught to do the same. These are the things that build character and make a person strong and able to cope in life and deal with problems effectively. I can't say that about these stepkids whom I am sure the majority were born with silver spoons in their mouths and handed everything along the way and now since the divorces...have had to deal with this situation that did not turn out the way they thought their lives would...and not their way at all and are now forced to deal with it minus the character, coping and appropriate problem solving skills! Yes I have found this site most helpful,indeed!

Vanessa Winthrop

StepAside's picture

Vanessa, I feel for you.

Vanessa, I feel for you. You've received some validation here from a "true" nutburger. Please do not listen to that.

Your husband is a man with (hopefully) two testicles and a brain. He owns a cell phone. He has enough of his faculties to maintain a director level position. Whose calls he answers while he is not with you, is up to him.

Do not think I don't understand your position. I have THREE grown SD's who ONLY call my DH during work hours. I doubt they even know our home number. He uses long car rides to call them all and talk for long periods of time, so they can get their fill of alone talk without worrying that I might overhear some of their most exclusive conversation. It is no secret that they want a relationship with HIM only, and not with me.

I've embraced the idea. It's almost as if they don't exist in my world. I used to resent their snubs, not it's nice. Less drama.

I can see your point if she is calling him when he's with you and taking him away from time that you're spending with him. That's particularly irritating when you're in the middle of something (like dinner out), and your husband stays on the phone. Mine won't. If his happen to call while we're doing anything (even breathing, lol), he'll give them the clue that he's not alone and they will quickly hang up.

However, on the subject of who your husband speaks with in your absence, think of it this way. Could you monitor how often his boss speaks to him a day? Your DH has interactions with others every minute of his day. Only a small portion of that is with his daughter. It's really up to him who he speaks to.

I call my dad all the time, and he calls me all the time. I can also call his house and not flip out if his wife answers. In fact, if she does, I make conversation with her. That's one of the perks of not being at war with a stepmother, the ease of not getting snubbed back. So if your SD's priorities are to cut you out, then the part I could see you putting some input into would be his time with you and long, extended talks with her during your time. If she has made sure to let you know that you are her enemy and wants the relationships all kept separate, then they really need to be kept separate.

And finally, I want to add... if you are questioning yourself and others about your reasons for setting a limit with his daughter, it's because you are in doubt, and understandably so. It is not your place to tell a grown man how often he can speak with his daughter. If he didn't want to talk to her, he could avoid her calls. Hence, if YOU stick your neck out and jump her, she is going to wail to her daddy about how cruel you are and the only one who will suffer from it will be you. You'll have egg all over your face. Then won't it be a blast to see her face again? Bet she'll have a permanent smirk on her face.

(ღ˘⌣˘ღ)

Vanessa Winthrop's picture

Thanks Stepaside for taking

Thanks Stepaside for taking so much of your time to share some very valuable information. Sounds like you have adjusted nicely and I am sure not without its moments of grief and anxiety along the way! I value your point of view and healthy perspective on things and I think he, admist his serious illness that he is recovering from,has been unable to be objective about things and least of all deal with anyone elses feelings other than his own. How he has been able to go to work through all of this I will never know but as his wife,caregiver and nurse all these months I haev felt the full impact of it all but pushed forward with my own interest and work to cope. I have heard him encourage her calls and even after they have spoken he will say to her that he will call her again later before she goes out with her friends so I know he enourages it and often hear him thank her for keeping n touch!!If it stopped at the calls it would be great but she even wanted to take him out New Years Eve for some matinee as his Christmas gift but he was too sick to oblige and in the middle of treatment.
It is painful when you know for a fact that someone is trying to wreck your marriage and is being very deliberate about it. After the last and final snubbing I told myself that was it and now he is I believe starting to come to terms with the fact that he can longer fix things or try to between SD and myself. When his health improves and he is finally stronger a long talk is going to ensue to work towards resolution of this longstanding issue. Thanks so much again!

Vanessa Winthrop

feo's picture

My advice would be NOT to

My advice would be NOT to talk to your SD about this issue - it is definitely your husband's place to do this. All he has to do is give his daughter some parameters about good/not good times to call, and then follow-up by not answering during those times. He could also tell her that texting or emailing is an option if there is something to communicate that can't wait. If you "take the bull by the horns" here, you will be seen as the interloper between the two of them, and you could open yourself up to all kinds of problems. I think it would make things worse. It does sound like counseling would be a good idea. Can't hurt! Good luck.

LostinSpaceandTime's picture

This is a tricky subject.

This is a tricky subject. It has been interesting to read the advice posted. I have a SD29 who stayed with us for 5 weeks while relocating to our area for work and to clean up her finances and legal mess of her own making. She was horrible from the get go. Lots of issues. Disrespect of our home, her father, me, everything. She brought a cat here against my consent and expected it to have the run of the house, claws and all around our pets! She managed to get it allowed to run in 1/2 of our finished garage space that is my painting studio area! Craziness! Her and I are not speaking. DH and I have started marriage counseling due to the disharmony she brought to our home and marriage. She was calling and texting him all the time while she was here , from the basement!
Now that she is out...since last Saturday...somewhat against her will. (I insisted we put her up in an apartment for two months) just to get her sneaky ass out of my house.
Anyway...now that she is gone...she still texts and calls him continuously while she is at her new job and while he is working. Monday it was 30 txt msgs, today at least 19 txt msgs. I discovered that the ones she sent on Sunday, the day after I booted her gently out, those where very nasty text messages to my DH telling him what a Bitch I am and that she wants nothing to do with him until he divorces me. Her other sister got her phone blocked the day before Easter for similiar texts that she sent to DH and some directly to me.
I have talked to my DH about setting boundaries for when they call and interuppt our dinner, time together, whatever. It is slow to sink in. He thinks he needs to be available to this one, despite her abuse of me and emotional blackmail tactics to him, because she needs mental help. Sometimes he is receptive to do this. Sometimes not.
My issue is that knowing that she is bad mouthing me to him, and that he has done nothing to make her stop, where to go from there. I am angry at him for not standing up for our marriage and for his wife. She threatens not to have anything to do with him, yet continues with her battery of abusive texts.
I am totally disengaging from all of his three daughters. They have never accepted me and it will be a relief not to have to engage anymore.
Just how do I get my DH to man up and make the poison that they are feeding him stop? I can tell it is still going on by his attitude each day.
Texting her directly is not an option at this point...since she has not texted me these things.
From all I have read on this site and others....there is not much hope for a relationship with Adult Stepchildren. At best treat them like any stranger you meet in the market, be friendly but not familiar. Don't feed them as they often bite the hand that feeds them. Never let them move in with you! It will not turn out well. And if you have any brains in the first place don't get with a partner that already has children. And if that is unavoidable...move to another country away from the kids asap!
The stories I have read just don't turn out well. Save yourself. Go on with your life. If they are constantly calling while you are present....and he won't have the decency to turn off the phone or leave the room, then just pick up your keys and take a drive. Go do something fun. If you can't retrain him...then retrain yourself not to obsess over it....associate that call with the cue to do something you enjoy. So what if you are in the middle of your dinner....pick up your plate and go watch your favorite tv show...or go outside on the deck with a glass of wine....whatever you want to do. Heck...isn't that what the DH and the SD is doing...whatever they want.
Reclaim your life....just do it.

Vanessa Winthrop's picture

Wow, LostinSpaceandTime..you

Wow, LostinSpaceandTime..you really have gotten the brunt of it all and I totally empathize with your situation. They say blood is thicker than water so right from the get-go we were off to a bad start engaging in relationships with men with kids although on the other hand my 2 have been wonderful and have accepted and treated my DH like their own father if not better but that is because of how I raised my children. I would not have it anyother way!
I feel that the guys really get caught in the middle but when it comes right down to it...and my own 87 year old mother subtly reminded my DH of the wedding vows stating to him in an email that I was there for him in sickness vs health and together "what God has joined together..let no man put asunder" and perhaps your DH needs to be reminded of this!!!I assume he shared those same vows!
I hope everything works out for you and would like to add that the part of him that only half listens is mostly likely his guilty half because of the failed marriage but these menI think need to go to guilt-anonymous meetings and get over it because it does take 2 to tango and somehow they seem to be more affected by it.

Vanessa Winthrop

StepAside's picture

"My issue is that knowing

"My issue is that knowing that she is bad mouthing me to him, and that he has done nothing to make her stop, where to go from there. I am angry at him for not standing up for our marriage and for his wife. She threatens not to have anything to do with him, yet continues with her battery of abusive texts."

This reminds me so much of my OSD30. My DH has insisted for years now that he will not tolerate his family talking poorly about me. Then he'll turn around and repeat some hideous thing they've said. And when he tells me his response, it's usually really mild. Last year, OSD30 told my DH that he has allowed me to cut his balls off. Can you believe the size of HER HAIRY BALLS to say something so disrespectful to her own father? She's one to talk. She's had his balls in her purse her entire life! She tells people when to jump and how high. When I got sick of being around her, I stopped going with him (plus, she said she didn't want me to come with him).. plus I refused to let our kids go visit her without me. Funny, that while she relegates me to LAST position in her family, with no rights nor expectations for decency, she thought she could make demands that involve MY BLOOD?? MY CHILDREN? I didn't give birth so that she could have a half-sibling. They are MINE, hands off and lips off MY children. I've had enough of her tantrums for the past 18 years. I know exactly what she's like. And hell no I don't want my children around that. Then she insisted to my husband that he bring them with him and screw me! She told him he didn't need my permission to take our kids anywhere. That is exactly the size of her mouth and her balls.

Just the fact that I made a limit that involved my own children staying away from her crazy ass was enough for her to tell him I cut off his balls, and then mock me in public in front of a bunch of their relatives. What class.

Here's what I know. My children have ENOUGH RESPECT FOR ME that they would NEVER speak about anyone I care about in the way every person in DH's family has spoken about me to him. In addition, my children would know I wouldn't put up with it. Hell no if my children would ever mock my husband in public and make me look like a total chump without me bring down a brick wall right on the spot. When OSD did it, DH said, "I said enough that I think she got the hint."

Uh yeah, enough that she maybe got the hint to reign it in that one episode. Does not mean she's going to stop. I'm still angry that my DH let it go on for so long too. What did he have to gain by not telling her to shut her fat trap a long time ago? Seriously, all he had to say was, "I am NOT going to listen to you SHRED MY WIFE, ever. If you can't say something nice about her, do not even mention her name to me." But noooo, for too many years he felt he had to hear them out, comfort them, negotiate their feelings to me. I don't give a rat's ass. They are SUPPOSED to be adults. Grow up and move on. Don't like seeing me, then stay out of my house. Put a fork in me, I'm done.

Guess that is my definition of disengaging. Smiling

(ღ˘⌣˘ღ)

emotionaly beat up's picture

Intresting observation

Intresting observation Vanessa, it does take two to tango, yet the guys "a lot of us on this site" seem to have married, appear to be the ones shouldering all the guilt. Mind you this is encouraged by the offspring. Now I do understand that parents cannot be held responsible for all the behaviours of adult children..... But they can be responsible for their own behaviour at all times and I will never understand how grown men can allow their children to be so disrespectful, rude, and ill mannered to anyone especially their wives. For that I hold them solely responsible. When they sit back do and say nothing, and only seem to fire up when the wife says something, and then fire up at the wife for saying something, I think they are not only failing to love and honour their wives, but they are failing as a parent and as a role model for their children.

This could all have been so easily avoided if dad on day one had said "Who do you think you are talking to" or in your case "Listen sweetie 7am is far too early to be calling in the mornings unless it is an emergency" or look we're having dinner, I will call you back later. Or, 10pm is too late to call unless it is an emergency, you get my drift. He could have stopped all of this with two or three sentences, none of which involved YOU, so easily stopped without offending SD and still respecting you and your marriage. But no, SD may not speak to him again or she will get mad with him so he cannot do that. Sorry, but I do blame the parent for the parents failure to stop inappropriate speech/behaviour in their children. The messsage the give their children by their silence is, it's okay, I have no problem with you doing/saying this. I think it not only supports the behaviour of the kids, but encourages it.. Good Lord you are not asking for too much here, how easily it could have all been fixed.

Vanessa Winthrop's picture

Yes,emotionally beat up..so

Yes,emotionally beat up..so it can and does seem like a simple solution and if it were reversed and my adult children acted that way towards my DH you'd better believe that I would not hold back and deal with it with them on his behalf. You are right, he wants to ignore and keep everyone happy,above all HER but guess WHO it is affecting.
It is at my expense. I do believe though as before mentioned by my taking a stand for myself that the dynamics are changing as she is 1) not asking to come over, and he is not asking that she come over so I think he is beginning to see that we can't go on this way and that he can't fix it! I did not acknowledge her birthday this year as she came to my SP last year that he had for me and sat there on the phone as people yelled surprise and had the audacity to invite a friend that of course Dad had to pay for. She did not buy me a card or a gift so guess what..she got 0 from me this year and while she and her BD discussed her passed birthday in front of me I uttered not a word...that was the day she chose to sit with her back to me facing her dad without talking to me or including me in her conversation. I think they were both surprised by my savvy and stick-to-it-tiveness such that they now both know where she stands with me. She is royally p----- that I did not get her anything and the lesson here is that you don't treat people on the basis of what they give you and how much and this is how she treats everyone including her mother. It's that what can you do for me now, syndrome! It's disgusting!!

Vanessa Winthrop

emotionaly beat up's picture

I absolutely agree if my

I absolutely agree if my children had been coming into our home and ignoring my husband, bringing in alcholic drinks and offering them to me and not my husband, inviting US to their homes and then offering me food and drink but ignoring my husband, I would not have been quietly accepting the food and drinks with a smile on my face standing around the kitchen bench laughing and joking with them while my husband sat alone on the couch not welcome as part of the company - and hell would freeze over before my husband would tolerate that for himself. If my daughter or any of my children had said they would like to see me and my husband dead and were calculating how much we were worth I would not have said to my husband, you're just making that up because you don't like her. Her fiance, well I call him the boyfriend because they have been engaged 6 years and together for 8, and he has told my husband if she doesn't get some help he will not marry her, anyway, that aside he told my husband all the things she had been saying and doing, he told my husband that he needed to be concerned for my safety that he believed she was capable of hurting me if not worse, and my husband's response to this.......He's a liar.

For the first two years that girl was in my life I tried to ignore all she said and did, I treated her as I would any other guest in my home and did more for her as she was my husband's daughter. However, during that couple of years I told my husband repeatedly he needed to address her rudeness, and he needed to stop being part of it...his reaction, well it was full of I's I am too sensitive, I just don't like her, I just didn't want him to have a relationship with his kids, I was making it up, no matter how rude she was he would deny it. She invited us to her home for her birthday, I sat down and her brother and a friend got up and moved over to the kitchen bench, my husband, his daughter, her boyfriend, the brother and the friend were now all around the bench and all had been offered and given drinks while I sat like a store dummy on th couch, I said nothing. She then asked them all to sit at the table as she was cutting the cake, and as my husband was pulling out his chair, he remembered he had a wife and said, are you having some cake. Not to cause a public fuss, I went to the table, she passed the cake to her right, gave a piece to her guest and her father and then started to her left leaving me out, my husband's response was to quickly shove his piece in front of me and say to her can I have a piece of cake. He pretended the whole thing didn't happen. She, looked directly at me and the piece of cake in front of me with hatred in her eyes and passed daddy a piece of cake.

These are just a couple of little incidents and I am not getting into the major ones,however, the breeding of the baby AKA the trump card was the icing on the cake, she went behind her boyfriends back to have a baby beause she believed if she had a baby daddy would leave me, and as soon as the baby was born the boyfriend told daddy, if he wanted to see his grandaughter then he would have to leave his wife.

So, who do you blame for this. She is not my partner in life, she promised nothing to me, she can view me as an adult and she can choose to like or dislike me, to even hate me if she chooses to do so and she absolutely has that right. I also have the right to choose to have nothing to do with her. However, out of respect for my husband I went through 8 years of hell so he could have a relationship with her, while she did not for one second have enough respect for her father to even say hello or goodbye to his wife. It is not my place to cause trouble with his family, it was his place to speak to his own children. But he refused as they would not speak to him again, he decided it was easier to let me suffer and bear the brunt of their hate, because if they hated me, that to him meant they loved him. An example of how my husband encourage her not to speak to me that frequently happened is this. She would come to my home with her boyfriend, I would offer her coffee, she would ignore me, I would offer the boyfriend coffee, he would say yes or no, I would offer my husband coffee, he would say yes or no, then I would go back to her and again ask if she wanted coffee....she would ignore me again. Then, my husband would ask her do you want tea or coffee, she would immediately answer him, and he would pass the answer onto me even though I was standing right there. He would save her the trouble of saying yes or no to me over coffee because she didn't want to speak to me, and he did this every single time. When I pointed this out to him everytime they left, he would EVEYTIME say, rubbish, why do you have to make stuff up about her. He would defend her to the death, even got on his hands and knees one day to help her put her shoes on, she was at the time 28, she went to put on her shoes and missed her foot and he dropped to his knees like a stone and she stood there while he lifted her feet one at a time and put on her shoes. If she came in during a meal I would ask her if she wanted something to eat, she would ignore me, and he would then say to her, would you like some of this, he would actually hold his fork up towards her mouth with food on it for her to eat. Now, her boyfriend was always with her, but he never once asked the boyfriend if he wanted to eat of his plate, just the daughter.

The reason she behaved the way she did, is because her father not only let her, but encouraged her. The reason she is banned from my home and will NEVER as long as I live enter here again is because her father will never stop her from treating me like a leper and worse, he will continue to encourage it by his silence. Is this all her fault. NOPE, my husband could have stopped this years ago, all he had to say was, Natalie that's enough and she would have stopped it. She needed him, he was her meal ticket, and she would have shut that cheeky mouth of hers quick smart if she had thought that she was going to lose sight of daddy's wallet, yet he did nothing. By doing nothing he gave her more power, he fed that greedy monster and made her a whole lot worse than she otherwise would have been.

Realising my husband was my biggest problem made it a whole lot easier for me to deal with instead of saying to him, she did, she said, I don't like how she treated me, which only got is back up because everytime I mentioned her name he got furious before he even heard what I was going to say, he immediately went into defense mode. I changed my method of dealing with it to, I do not like how YOU allowed her to do/say this or that, YOU need to watch what she is saying and doing to me, YOU need to speak to her she is your daughter it is not my place to discipline your kids, YOU need to stop this and that. Putting the blame on him and not bad mouthing his daughter changed the whole dynamic and ultimately gave me the strengh to do what I should have done years ago. She rocked up at my home, baby in arms, I told her she was not welcome here I had told my husband before I went to the door, she is here I will not sit back and allow you to let her treat me dog poo on the soles of her feet, you refuse to acknowledge that is happening and I am done with it all, so do you want to tell her she is not welcome her or shall I. He told me to do it. He hid in the kitchen while I told his daughter never to come back here again. That of course got him off the hook because she would think he wasn't home and he would be able to tell her he knew nothing about it.

He caused all of this to happen because he would not even in a polite one on one chat with his daugher say, look, I know you hate my wife, but she is my wife and I want you, for my sake. to be polite, you don't have to have coffee mornings with her, but for my sake you do have to be polite. Why, because he wasn't the one suffering because of her behaviour I was and it at that time it didn't impact on him. What I believe to this day he has never realised is she was manipulating him, she knew she was causing a rift in the marriage, we had both been told by her boyfriend she was on a vendetta to break up this marriage and she knew I would never tolerate what was going on. However, she thought I would just up and leave, she did not ocunt on me fighting back by banning her and telling my husband to go. They both thought I was weak, she thought she could push me out, and he thought I would never leave. They both believed they had power over me, and to be honest for 8 years I looking back now realise they did. I respected my husband and loved him so much I took all of this to give him time to work out his relationship with his daughter, he in turn took advantage of that and abused my love and respect, she, well she saw it as a sign of weakness, she like her father thought I was gutless, and as I said, she thought my weakness would make me leave, and he thought it would make me stay, none of them ever counted on me saying -GAME OVER.

On the positive side I have found some self respect and some pride now and the gumption to stand up to him and tell him I will never be treated like this again by him or his family, and I won't. I would rather live a life by myself than as a punching bag put up front and centre by my husband for his family to kick around.

sandye21's picture

EBU, We have had such similar

EBU, We have had such similar experiences it just amazes me! My SD did the same things yours did, exclusion, nastiness, saying mean things when DH was not in the room, slamming doors in my face, hostility, plus enlisting her hubby and at times DH to be part of the bullying group. And my gutless DH wound up running out the door so he would not have to handle anything. I wonder though, now that you have removed yourself from the game, how does SD treat your DH? My DH is now having to deal with one of SD's games that she used on me for years - the old 'you don't exist game'. I see him struggling with it. For the second year in a row she did not acknowledge his Birthday, has not called him in over a year so he called her. Maybe he thought this would instill some guilt in her. Fat chance! I almost feel sorry for him. I am not a vengeful person bit I can not conjure up any empathy for him when I received none from him for 20 years. What is really strange is that we have a relatively pleasant relationship now that SD has been banned from our home and we do not have any discussions about her. But the dynamics of the marriage have changed. I like him as a person but my respect for him as diminished. Has your DG ever apologized for what he did to you? I truly believe that if my DH apologized for all of those invalidating comments, “You make her uncomfortable”, “You're jealous of her”, “I didn't see her do it”, “She LIKES you”, “You're being too sensitive”, etc. I would respect him more because at least it would show that he took responsibility for something. But at this point in time I still see a man who is too gutless to even confront SD about the rotten way she is treating him.

Poodle's picture

Wow EBU, if posters on this

Wow EBU, if posters on this site want some hard evidence of RA and how the collusion games happen, this post should be starred up and framed. It absolutely demonstrates, in tiny gut-chruning detail, how the dysfunction between the BP and the BC hurts the SM and how they are BOTH in the game. And the crunch line for me about DH motivation in these situations is "if they hated me, that to him meant they loved him". I think it's more than guilt for some of these spouses. IMO this sort of stepkid behaviour could be connected to those divorces where the spouses are at each other's throats, enmeshed either before or after the marriage, and they have been feeding off the vitriol in their separation, posturing with their verbal abuse of each other as a sort of sideshow to attract their children's love. The divorced spouse then later gets together with us and, they are now addicted to inflicting this sort of aggression via the children, and they do so with us as a surrogate for the BM.
Some would say you should have spoken to SD earlier EBU, but for me your response was perfectly valid. You gave the benefit of the doubt, you turned the other cheek, you allowed time for their better side to emerge. But as many posters have said, this is a behavioural issue and a communication issue, and if we tolerate this stuff then we give out the message that we do not have a problem with it. I think on a case-by-case basis one has to deal with the DH and the SD directly at different times on different things and kudos to you for how you resolved it in the end. What a magnificent irony that DH scurried around in his own back room fully in the knowledge that you knew he was going to lie to SD. Did she also know he was there? That would be particularly sick but also, a good source of a chuckle Evil

It's nothing personal.

StepAside's picture

"And the crunch line for me

"And the crunch line for me about DH motivation in these situations is "if they hated me, that to him meant they loved him".

That's a lie from the pits of hell. Children who LOVE and RESPECT their fathers would not treat their father's wives like dog shit. I know that's difficult for many fathers to believe, who have their heads shoved so far up their asses in denial that they can lick their own tonsils, but it is the absolute truth.

(ღ˘⌣˘ღ)

Poodle's picture

Believe me I agree it's not

Believe me I agree it's not about love at all but this sort of spouse is confused.

It's nothing personal.

emotionaly beat up's picture

Ahh! Sandye what a

Ahh! Sandye Laughing out loud what a formidable team we would make we know we are married to the same man and have the same SD if only we could hook up with the two of them in the same room having to take on the two of us given what we now know, they would be choking on their own medicine. To answer your question, DH rings her roughly once a month I think, I know this from his moods when he comes home which last two to three days, the last time it went into the 4th day and I decided to check his phone, sure enough he had spoken to her for around 4 minutes 4 days ago. When he speaks to her he comes home depressed, anxious and gets narky quite quickly over nothing. So, I waited until his next bit of narkiness came out of his mouth and then I responded with "Look I don't know what is going on with you but you have been in this fowl mood since Thursday, I don't like it, if you have a problem tell me what it is and if I can help I will, but if you are just in this mood because the world isn't the way you'd like it to be, then stop it now please because I am well and truly sick of it. It stopped instantly, I guess he didn't want me pushing as to why he was in a mood. That was the end of Apr and he has been fine since. But basically, other than him phoning her she has no contact with him. Well openly anyway, but what she has now taken to doing is (this is just so her passive, aggressive), she has never sent her grandfather photos before, but she now does, photos of the baby and her brothers and other two grandkids, photos of them all together, happy family snaps. Photos which she knows DH will see when he visits his father, evil, caniving little bitch.

Has he apologised you ask Laughing out loud Listen here woman, if your not on drugs, well get on them you need serious help. Has he apologised, NO and he NEVER will. In my gut I know he knows he and his daughter are the cause of all this, but he still to this day takes the I'll stick my head in the sand attitude and every now and again have a look up to see if it is all clear, if not, head back down again. Like you I have lost all respect for him, and although I do feel sorry for him and the appalling relationship he has with his kids, I am sorry in the way I would feel if he was just a stranger on the bus who had just told me his sad story. Not gutted sorry for him the way I did before I realised how much a role he had played in all of this. I know he still thinks that I could fix this if I wanted to. Still hopes I will. Now, that is true, I could, all I have to do is say, look I know you are miserable so tell your daughter she can come here, and then I just have to sit back while she, her boyfriend, her brothers, her father and very soon her daughter treat me like a leper in my own home and I could fix it for him. I know in his head he knows that is unreasonable to expect that of me, but in his heart, he would like me to go back to putting up with it. So, nothing has changed in that regard. But the last 3 months or so he has certainly improved in his attitude towards me, and as I said only when he has the phone contact does he fall back into the old pattern. But it has only been 8 months so we will see. I am still willing to leave the marriage if things go downhill, and I won't be waiting it out either. But in summary she is punishing him for failing to give into her demands and she will continue to do so, even if he does leave and go and live with her, she will continue to make him pay till his dying day. He in turn will never, never confront her about this, he will till his dying day pretend it is not happening.

I would love him to apologise, to admit he played a terrible role in this, and that he should have stepped in and stopped it. It would allow me to at least respect him for being man enough to own up and take responsibility for what happened, and it would go a long way to healing the damage done. But, I will not be holding my breath waiting for that to happen because I could guarantee you, it will not.

He has lost far more in this than I have, and I have learnt a lot and gained a sense of self, a sense of worthiness and I will never allow him or anyone to use me for a doormat ever again. Sandye, please come and get your husband and SD out of my country Laughing out loud

sandye21's picture

EBU, The two things really

EBU, The two things really saved my sanity: I joined this site and to try to visit every day, and I went to a therapist shortly after SD's last meltdown. She didn't recommend medication but helped me to realize that I needed to take action, and not put it off one single minute more. We explored the possiblity of divorce and I was ready - either way. I think DH sensed this and suddenly, out of character, wanted to talk. I suppose this was a form of an apology - at least the most I will ever get. Like you, I would gain a lot of respect for him if he did but I can recall an old saying, "Love means never having to say you're sorry" - written by a man of course. The therapist also pointed out that SD was like other narcissists that I have had in my life, including my Mother, so I had a tendency to become a speedbump to gain approval. I strive to never be a speed bump again, now expecting mutual respect or no relationship at all, and am much happier and confident because of this attitude.

Like you, I am married to an Italian, and agree there are cultural things which prevent a man from apologizing because it means he will lose face. Also, the average man in Italy does not leave his Mama until he is 28. Dont get me wrong, I have learned a lot from Italians - they are a very loving people, and if you have their loyalty it is for life. They are also very good to their children which can be a good thing or not. The drama and the guilt. One thing I was very fortunate of was that DH's family witnessed SD's behavior toward me just after DH and I got married. Some of the women were also treated badly by her and will not allow her in their homes. They mentioned they do not think she has too much respect for women in general. So I also feel very blessed to have this support system.

Still, I would love to leave my DH and SD in your country for a reunion with your DH and SD. It would be interesting to be a fly on the wall. LOL

emotionaly beat up's picture

Well Augusta it was your

Well Augusta it was your fault he slept with your roomate while he was away because if you had not gone away he would not have slept with your roomate, so, all your fault, just ask him. Because as sure as the sun rises in the morning, it wasn't his,it will never be his, just as sandye21 I'm sure she will agree with me. Laughing out loud

My doctor says italian men are hard to live with. I have an Australian friend who is married to an italian and thinks there should be a support group for women who are married to italians. I am Scottish, and we for the most part can be pretty laid back (we can damn well fire up too), but we pretty much take them as we find them, and I was raised to serve the men of the house, so I should have been able to do this, but hells bells, they really push the envelope. Even when they are dead wrong, they are dead right, just ask them.

sandye21's picture

^^^Totally agree!^^^

^^^Totally agree!^^^

emotionaly beat up's picture

Poodle yes I know some people

Poodle yes I know some people would say I should have acted sooner, and I would understand that thinking. However, I think in doing it the way I did, I now feel better about the outcome, I have no regrets, no what ifs, I do not worry about should I have said this, perhaps if I had done that, maybe I acted too hastily. I have no guilt and for me that worked out perfectly. Also, DH cannot say, well you never even tried, so by doing it the way I did, not only did I make myself feel better and come out of it guilt free, a side effect of it was I left DH without an arguement, he has no comeback on me and he knows it.

You posted:

IMO this sort of stepkid behaviour could be connected to those divorces where the spouses are at each other's throats, enmeshed either before or after the marriage, and they have been feeding off the vitriol in their separation, posturing with their verbal abuse of each other as a sort of sideshow to attract their children's love. The divorced spouse then later gets together with us and, they are now addicted to inflicting this sort of aggression via the children, and they do so with us as a surrogate for the BM

What I read above is exactly what happend in the case of my DH and his former wife, he admits they fought every day for years, they fought the morning after their wedding day, and he left her on their honeymoon, and then he as we did back then decided to start a family to make it better because he could not stand the thought of going home to her, Italian and catholic guilt played a huge role in his decisions then, he was a young man, no excuse for it now though. These three kids of his grew up in a completely dysfunctional family where mum and dad foccussed all their attention on the kids because they hated each other. The kids did not even speak for themselves, could not boil water, the SD at the age of 28 was moving in with her boyfriend into a brand new home, she was taking mum and her brother with her, mum unfortunately died a couple of weeks before the home was completed, but Sd still took her brother with her. He still 3 years later lives there. She has never lived alone with the boyfriend and now they have a child. None of these three all in their 30's the eldest 37, have ever lived alone, none know how to pay bills, none have any idea how to live independently. Their mental and emotional health were never allowed to develop to a level where they could stand on their own two feet, both mum and dad were making sure that none of them would ever leave home or more importantly leave them, because they could not stand each other, so they used these kids as an excuse to stay married and then the italian's would not point the finger at them. Truth be told, his daughter is a sick, evil bitch, but I actually feel sorry for her. I will never have anything to do with her again, but I do feel sorry for her and her brothers and even with all my discust and contempt for them, I am still a better parent to them than their father is, because at least I am happy for them to become independent people, he still wants them to "need" him therefore he can feel loved, he wants them in his life so he can "control" them and that to him means love. How can anyone blame these people for how they grew up. They are so mentally stunted they cannot find a way out of this for themselves. Mum and dad always resolved every single little issue for them. When mum died the youngest was 28 and the boy 31 both still living at home and mum still making their breakfast every morning.

Now, did she know he was there............Well his work vehicle was in the driveway, but just incase she was going to make an excuse in her head that maybe he was out for a walk or something, when she made the comment, "I am going to tell my dad about this" I had to laugh, I really didn't mean to, but it did indicate to me she had already decided he knew nothing about it. So I said "well, go ahead tell your dad, but you will have to phone him because he refuses to come to the door." If she didn't take that on board the boyfriend sure did. But DH succeeded in getting the trouble out of his home (sd) and still smelling like a rose, well to her anyway, because the next night he came home and feeling quite relieved said to me, Evil little bitch rang (well actually, no he said Natalie rang) today. I asked what she had to say about it, and he said, oh! she didn't say anything about it, so I didnt either. How weird is that, I tell her she is not welcome here ever again and if she comes back again I will have her charged with trespass, she had to know he was here, and I sure told her he was, but she phones him and says nothing, and he happily takes her phone call. WEIRD, WEIRD, WEIRD. They must live in a very secluded little world those two.

Poodle's picture

Completely agree with the

Completely agree with the give them enough time approach. And fascinating about her state of knowledge!

It's nothing personal.

emotionaly beat up's picture

Thank you Augusta, I am so

Thank you Augusta, I am so glad to have the worst of it behind me, and I have learned a lot from it. It has made me a stronger person and I have developed some self esteem and self respect, things I did not have before because if I had, I would not have allowed myself to have gotten into this situation so badly in the first place. My uprbringing was such that girls were to serve, we three girls were never even given meat, that was for the men, the men were all important and the girls were as I said there to serve. I learnt from birth I guess that girls were nothing and I learnt that lesson well. So, at least with all that went on during that horrible 8 years I learnt that I am a very strong intelligent woman and I don't need to take this from anyone certainly not my husband. Funny thing is Augusta, I had been on my own for 15 years, I had raised three kids from the ages of 2, 7 and 8 all by myself, I had fed, clothed and educated them, we were all working full time. I raised a teacher, a cabinet maker and joiner and a human resource officer, none of them were ever on welfare, they all had part time jobs at school, bought their own cars etc, and wer productive members of society and I clearly thought I was still "nothing' having seen the true side of my husband and his family, I now congratulate myself for the job I did, I now know that not everyone does it that way, what I thought was normal was actually a very hard job that I did beautifully and I did it all by myself. I am not an idiot and I am not unworthy I was not put on this earth to be abused. So, I learnt a lot of positive lessons from all of this for which I am very grateful. I have more sense of worth now than I have ever had in my entire life. Thanks Agusta.

Poodle's picture

Love the spread of your 3

Love the spread of your 3 BCs' jobs!

It's nothing personal.

emotionaly beat up's picture

Personalities are as varied

Personalities are as varied as their jobs poodle very different. But thankfully they are all settled with their own husbands and children now, their husbands only have to work with one personality, and my job is done. They really are strong independent people. Sure, they ask for my assistance now and again, and I give it if I am able, but if I cannot, no biggie, they can all come up with plan B easy enough and there are no "drama queens" or tantrums for me to deal with because I said NO. Laughing out loud Love It.