I have just come across this site while I am sat in complete despair
I have been married 12 years to a lady with 3 children, now 2 men and a 22 yr old daughter
Only the step daughter lives at home.
I have never met their father and have been the sole bread winner for all that time
The Step daughter has always been divisive and is very immature for her age. Relations between us have always been patchy, her boyfriend (25+) now spends practically all his time living at ours too.
While they buy their own food they have nothing to their name, they both work, contribute little and use everything of ours for the past year
When broaching the subject I am deemed mean spirited, I feel it would be good for them to get a place of their own but while she makes the right noises nothing ever happens.
She is a very dominant person, she has complete control over her mother using a combination of guilt and emotional bribery. I am not prepared to be bullied which often causes problems
It has got to the stage where she no longer talks to me in my own home but puts on a pretense whenever anyone else is around. I can not confront her, she refuses to speak to me point blank, her boyfriend while pleasant is completely controlled which leave me on my own in my own home
We also have a son between us who is now noticing the fallings out and quite often they alienate him from me too.
I have spoken to both sons hoping they will intervene and have a word, one says kick her out but my wife won't let me and takes her side all the time, the other is just staying out of it.
I want to try, would gladly go to a counselor but they will not entertain the idea, I feel not only alone and psychologically bullied in my own home by this daughter (and her weak mother) which I solely support but at complete breaking point. I also work 60 hours a week running my own business which again no one either helps or is interested in
I want to leave but feel I should stay and fight for what is mine but is very hard, atleast until I can walk away with something fair.
Anyone got any advice?
Hi Colin, I am not sure if I
Hi Colin,
I am not sure if I have any advice that can help with your DW or SD but I think that it might help if you went to a counselor on your own. It helped me years ago to get a better perspective on a bad situation. It gave me the strength and the clarity to walk away from a relationship in which I was taken for granted and taken advantage of by someone I thought I loved.
I wish you the best of luck.
I will definitely take that
I will definitely take that on board. I am really pleased to have found this site, all of a sudden I don't feel so alone
thank you
I would say also take legal
I would say also take legal advice...
It's nothing personal.
I have done this in the past
I have done this in the past and not in a bad position, we live in a largish house close to a college and often take in students, like I mentioned in a previous reply, I'd rather be bought out since that gives my wife the opportunity to earn something with the place rather than sell up and live in a 2 bed place.
You are definitely not alone
You are definitely not alone here. I came on board here after feeling very desperate and "crazy" from my 5 year relationship and dealing with my ex-boyfriend's daughter. She is 22 also and I have known her since she is sixteen. Funny thing is that she hasn't mature one ounce since that time. In fact I have spent many hours reading posts on this site and it seems that she may be as someone once said here "emotionally stuck" at the age of 16. She is downright disrespectful and rude to my ex-boyfriend. After watching him basically enable her for the last five years I have ended the relationship. Take the advice of Bird. I myself finally started to see a therapist because I felt as if I was "crazy" watching all of their interactions. (You can ready my prior posts.) Between the drinking, her total disrespect I decided to speak to a therapist. After about two months into therapy she basically told me exactly what I have felt for the past two years, that being that he is an enabler (his ex-wife is an alcoholic) and he enables his kids also. My therapist really didn't give me much hope for change since he won't even admit her behavior is a problem or also that he is an enabler. I read a book called "Co-dependent no more" on the advice of my therapist and it helps to explain the behavior of individuals like your wife and my ex. Before you think about leaving, since you obviously have a lot more to deal with since you are married I would try to at least speak with a therapist. Perhaps you wife might change her mind if you start to go and join you . If not at least go for your own sake.
I must say that while I do miss his companionship I really don't miss all the drama that he brought with him into my life. For the first time in months I have been able to sleep soundly at night. Try to hang in there and remember to "love yourself" also. Good Luck to you.
You are in a tough position.
You are in a tough position. You can see what is happening objectively, but your wife cannot. She cannot throw out her daughter knowing she does not have the emotional or financial means to support herself...she just can't do it. IMO the boyfriend should move out. Talk to your wife and propose that you give him 3 months to move out. After three full months (from the 1st of next month) you will also begin charging the daughter rent (say $100/mo). Every month, the rent goes up by $50. She will decide soon enough that she wants to live elsewhere. Or at least it will help her to budget while saving for a place of her own. Get him out quick before they get pregnant and you never get them out. Say to DW, "I care about SD and I don't want to through her out...I want her to learn to take care of herself, just like we had to." "Also, I have to get up early and I don't want them coming in late...if they cannot get home by ____, they should stay elsewhere." "SD isn't gonna like this, and she's going to blame me...so this has to be a decision between the two of us." Then have a family meeting and lay it all out.
Has she graduated from college? Helping her to get through school or job training would contribute to her ability to be independent.
Money and kids are problems that really mess with a marriage. You've come this far...hopefully you and DW can go on some date nights or day trips and treat each other well. That way, you'll be a comfort to one another...at least when the kids are out.
I'm in a slightly worse situation, in that my SD won't ever grow up due to her disabilities and learned helplessness. So I know what it's like to have no say in what goes on in your own home. Still, I love my DH and we are a comfort to one another a majority of the time.
~Lisbeth
Thank you so much for your
Thank you so much for your replies.
To answer a couple of questions, she is in full time paid work taking home around £10K, her boyfriend earns around £20K, they are more than capable of moving out. It isn't hard to tell she is petrified of the idea of going it alone, doesn't have enough confidence to do it and her mother seems only too happy to feed.
Neither of them drive, he is banned and she refuses to, oddly enough she can accept lifts quite well though, it isn't an allergy to cars,
Shes texts her mother constantly claiming she is moving out 'asap' because she can't stand my abuse but when I check the computers history all I see is facebook.
Her mother backs her 100%, she will not go to any outside counseling hence my need to speak to the lads and to be honest my next suggestion will be that they might want to buy me out of the house, there is a lot of equity in the place (I have the money put by to pay off the mortgage but never have just in case of this).
My darling SD plays the victim card to a degree that even my son sympathises with her, I can't see him coming with me and don't really want to upset his life any more than I have to,
my mother and step mother see right through SD and have nothing but sympathy for my position.
To top it all my wife has been diagnosed with arthritis in her neck and is struggling, can't work (has never worked while we have been together) and needs help around the place. Again I feel this has fallen on me and am unable to ask them for assistance
I will look at that book, it sounds like it will hit the nail on the head.
Thank you all once again
Unfortunately we are right by
Unfortunately we are right by a train station and bus service hence it is easier for him to be here than with his relatives elsewhere in town, he is a nice guy, he is from outside the area and I employed him when he first arrived and we get on well, I have jetskis and we went out but he is no longer allowed, all I want to do is welcome him to the family but this level of dominance actually affects the dynamics of the house
He wanted to buy one, when she heard this she said 'why buy one when you can use his for free' and 'if you buy that I'll stab you in your sleep', needless to say he hasn't
The dominance she has over him is to the extent that if he stops and talks to me in another room she texts him to leave and he does
My wife will never kick them or push them out, my comment to her is that she still thinks like a single mother and makes all the decisions alone
Everytime there is a flare up like now the SD uses the opportunity to reinforce her position and alienate me further.
Despite being in the same house she hasn't spoken to me for the past 3 weeks except when I tried to resolve the situation and I got a 'I'll talk when I am ready' attitude, I bit and told her a few home truths which she broadcast by text to those who support her
I read a couple of texts to her mother 'he is being horrid to me,come back now, help' sort of thing
She won't share a room with me now and drags her boyfriend out when I walk in, this in itself is not that distressing but i feel that she shouldn't be benefiting from my house and it's internet , tv, laptops etc while she is behaving this way, am i being too hard by this?
A good friend said to me,
A good friend said to me, give them a month/6 weeks,
I'd love to see SD change but i think the only solution is for either her to leave or me and proceed to separate. This is forcing my wife to make a choice, I don't like that but perhaps she might get the idea that the money tree in the garden will go with me
I am by no means perfect, I have sought alternative ways to make me happy in the past but know that the only way to make this marriage work and solve this issue is to confront it head on.
It's been another miserable weekend, have spent the night on the sofa one more time but am happy to get up, get out of here and go to work.
Thank you once again for taking the time to write
I think you and your wife are
I think you and your wife are being pushovers. Unless the daughter and boyfriend are disabled, they will be able to be out on their own. And no you are not being to harsh. Everyone is benefiting by you working! What would happen if you left and then they all had to pay the bills without your help? Maybe that needs to happen....
"i feel that she shouldn't be
"i feel that she shouldn't be benefiting from my house and it's internet , tv, laptops etc while she is behaving this way, am i being too hard by this?" I would cut all of the power to the house, have your water shut off, eat out, cook for your son & yourself on a grill when the days are nice, take showers at friends or other family members (paying your share of the water bill), laundry mat for your clothes & your sons clothes, & live like little house on the prairie until they all move out. As long as you provide the basic essentials for your son, you are not breaking any laws.
Other than that, im not sure what to recommend but I like "take legal advice". If the others in the household want the nice things & access to the toys, let them pay for it all.
like this idea. You and your
like this idea. You and your wife are the right generation not to find this too hard, and your son is young enough to take an interest in the experiment. Slob and co-slob will not be able to cope with the loss of amenities. You could present it as an economy drive to save for therapeutic treatment for your wife's health condition (who could criticise that?).
It's nothing personal.
I read the age of the son
I read the age of the son wrong, sorry for that.
he is 12, he doesn't deserve
he is 12, he doesn't deserve to be caught up in this.
Yea I wish I had some better
Yea I wish I had some better advice for you because no matter what you do or don't do, he is caught up in it. Pretty sad how some people can be so cruel. Anytime I felt caught up in a situation it felt like I had to do something rather extreme to change the situation. I'm assuming that you have already tried to get things worked out in a reasonable manor & it has not been of any help.
My DH had one regret when him & his ex wife got their divorce..He wishes he would have kept his kids in his custody. He never knew their BM would neglect the kids as bad as she did. DH had his share of faults & some of decisions were made when he felt guilty. I would like to suggest that your son stays with you (primarily) if at all possible if you were to split up with your wife. You sound like a good dad & hes going to need you.
Again, thank you, I truly
Again, thank you, I truly appreciate the comments
Part of me wants to up sticks and walk away and part of me tries to fight it out, trouble is by fighting it out I am still there, being alienated and yet still paying the bills
I put my foot down 4 years ago when SD got pregnant, she was doing nothing whatsoever at the time, was hell to live with and was with a local lad who had no idea what he was doing
Having decided she wanted to keep the baby I said I would not be happy with her living with us long term, some may disagree with me here but knowing her personality and character it wasn't ever going to be anything more than a babysitting arrangement for my wife and her trying to pin this lad down
Following me threatening to leave to my wife because they tried to force me to this, in the end she took an abortion tablet and it has been my fault ever since.
To give a better picture of the situation, the lad got 18 months inside for mugging someone shortly after. His mother tried to attack the SD because she was so obnoxious and SD has been barred from her local bar indefinitely
My wife knows I will see this through but the repercussions of her leaving under a cloud will go on forever hence my reticence in giving ultimatums.
The one thing that has really got me this weekend is when my SD took a call on her mums mobile from my son who needed a lift home from a local park. She didn't tell me and her mother wasn't in.
I feel that compromising a 12yr olds' safety for cheap point scoring is beyond the limit.
If I approached my wife about this I am sure SD would come up with something.
It's her son too, she ought
It's her son too, she ought to know. You need to have that one out in the open for your son's sake, even if not as a bargaining counter
It's nothing personal.
Duplicate post-sorry
Duplicate post-sorry
I think what say makes sense,
I think what say makes sense, this site brings a realisation that there are other people out there going through similar and whatever the outcome it will be better than it is right now
I guess I am looking for confirmation that this is unreasonable behaviour and it is not my imagination or callous thoughts which is how my wife construes it
Thanks again and for the wishes
Other people out there have
Other people out there have been used and abused by skids and the lazy, guilty bioparents who enable them. They (including your wife) are all perfectly comfortable with the situation and have a vested interest in staying put (the free stuff you provide). They are setting a bad example for your bio son. It isn't a healthy environment. They are abusing your good nature and kindness. They will try to punish you and make you feel as bad as possible if you insist on the respect and adherence to your house rules that is lacking.
There are books out there about step-parenting and relational agression. Seeing a counselor by yourself (if wife won't attend) may help you put it in perspective and decide on a plan. Look for a counselor experienced with step-families. Some counselors are good and some are terrible.
Detaching helps too. These young adults are scamming you both. Your wife seems content to allow it, but you don't have to live like that. You aren't doing them any favors either because someday they must stand on their own. Protect yourself and your interests if you decide to split. There are people out there who are emotionally healthy and reasonable-maybe that's who you need to find.
Best wishes.
Resist we much! I can't control the way other people behave, I can only control my response to them.
Veteran stepmother and I have the scars to prove it....
It sounds to me as if your
It sounds to me as if your wife wants her daughter to stay for more reasons than just to help provide a roof over her head. It sounds like she wants her daughter there. Perhaps she fears what her life will be like once her daughter moves out. If your relationship hasn't been all that swell for you, it likely hasn't been all that swell for her either. So perhaps her daughter is throwing her weight around, because she feels protective of her mother and knows the truth about how her mother feels. That sort of leverage would really work in the daughter's favor.
I agree with the others about codependence. You're in a situation that you could get yourself out of, but you're in so deep that it likely seems impossible to you. The truth is, you really do hold all the cards. She can't work. Unless you are willing to roll over and give her everything, you could feasibly leave and force the sell of the house. If she's twisting your own son against you, she is just sucking him in as well. You're on a downhill slide.
I think you could come up with a plan, that is NON-negotiable (no room for your SD to take part in the discussion, talks only between you and your wife), then tell your wife the plan and follow through with it if your conditions are met. The moochers have 60 days to get out or the house will be listed, and you'll split the equity. You will plan to petition for at least 50/50 custody, particularly based on her physical condition. If she is unable to work, how is she going to be able to care for a kid? If the SD takes the news poorly and she and her live-in decide to give you hell during the 60 days, you will have them removed from your home immediately.
"I have heard there are troubles of more than one kind. Some come from ahead and some come from behind. But I've bought a big bat. I'm all ready you see. Now my troubles are going to have troubles with me!" - Dr. Suess
She has always been
She has always been protective for her as her father (ex Husband) has never bothered with any contact since she was 5, this includes birthday cards/present etc, nothing
I understand and respect this but the daughter has made contact with her father and fallen out with him in the past few years, my argument is that while I am not her father would he or any other behave differently.
I think it is hurtful after 15 years of trying to help sons and daughter along the path of life to the best of my ability and not have any advice or willingness to chat to them but I guess it is situations like this where you find out what they think and care
Our relationship has been fine in that respect, we do things together and have enjoyed it all however the onset of this boyfriend who is far too easy going has enabled this SD to control him and she thinks the rest of the family, that is why I make a stand. This has happened in the past with other boyfriends too
ANY fallings out wife and I ever have are over SD
I like the sound of your plan however I can't see anything being liveable after I 'kicked them out' which is how she will play it hence my hesitation
Fortunately I am away on business tomorrow so am going to take wife to a quiet place tonight and tell her my thoughts
If you're not ready to make a
If you're not ready to make a move, I would suggest that you read some books. A good one is Emotional Blackmail. It talks about F.O.G., which stands for Fear-Obligation-Guilt. These are common tactics a manipulator will use to continue getting what they want. I suspect your conversations with her aren't very even keeled if she's using these tactics. Her argument doesn't make sense. For that reason, she's going to have to keep using other tools to keep you doing what she wants. The book outlines many different types of responses that manipulators will use to an argument. I think you'll see your wife in some of them. The book also helps address how to deal with manipulation in these situations.
Basically, you make a statement and then she will blast you with the FOG. That will continue blindsiding you and keeping you off balance. That's what it's intended to do.
There are some other good books on dealing with manipulation as well. I liked: In Sheep's Clothing: Understanding and Dealing with Manipulative People by George K. Simon, Jr.
Overall, some of the best advice I ever received was from a friend who told me DH and I just needed to accept things exactly how they are. It sounds like you are still grieving over what you've done for your SD, the disappointment of not having a relationship with her like you expected to have, of knowing that you mean absolutely nothing to her now and what a waste your efforts have been. That is true for many here. The best thing you can do is realize what is the reality of the situation as it is today, accept it and move forward. Let go of your expectations. If you are nothing to her, she is nothing to you but someone who likes to take advantage of you. She's not your daughter nor your friend. She is a bully who your wife is enabling (and empowering) against you. That's not very nice of your wife to do. Certainly it's not how a spouse should treat their other half.
"I have heard there are troubles of more than one kind. Some come from ahead and some come from behind. But I've bought a big bat. I'm all ready you see. Now my troubles are going to have troubles with me!" - Dr. Suess
Talk about nail on the head,
Talk about nail on the head, thank you... And Augusta and Bird also,
I had a sit down with wife who proudly told me SD pays her £25 per week for them both, my mum has heard the rent and want to move in along with all my mates If I told them!
I spend more on gas!
Anyway, am dropping food payments, I am not going to subsidise this any more, the 3d large tv is going to work for presentations and will stay there.
Am seeking legal advice and will not leave under any circumstances.
Duplicate-sorry
Duplicate-sorry
Sorry, am really looking for
Sorry, am really looking for others opinions and questioning my own thinking.
This site has been insightful, thank you
Oh no problem, I appreciate
Oh no problem, I appreciate the advice.
Have been away for a couple of nights, true bliss!
Have had several calls from wife telling me her daughter is now 'depressed' because of the situation
The cynical side of me thinks it is her attempt at guilt since her attempts to alienate me arent succeeding.
Will have a sit down tonight but I don't think they will like what I have to say
Oh boo hoo. Typical
Oh boo hoo. Typical manipulator fashion. When the guns don't work, they bring out the tears. Whatever it takes to keep the ball rolling.
What happened to your stepdaughter's big bully exterior? She's depressed? Hell, she ought to be. Anyone can wear out their welcome. Apparently she never got that memo. Must have had 100% confidence that she would always win the battle with you. Perhaps she underestimated you. I think lots of bullies wind up in this position. They just keep coming and keep coming until their target gets pushed so hard into a corner that they come back like a steam roller. Then the tears flow!!
Stay strong! Stay focused!
"I have heard there are troubles of more than one kind. Some come from ahead and some come from behind. But I've bought a big bat. I'm all ready you see. Now my troubles are going to have troubles with me!" - Dr. Suess
I hate bullying with a
I hate bullying with a passion, the problem is that (and I think the posters on this forum have taught me) it is not best to play them at their own game, firstly it is dragging oneself down to their level and you never look better for doing so and secondly it takes a twisted mind to play these games which I am pleased to say I don't possess
Boyfriend is away working for a week, I think she is preparing for this and the loss of support in this 'battle'.
Quite and interesting case to watch in a way.
great post once again
Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
I would recommend that you do
I would recommend that you do NOT move out of the house under any circumstances. I am assuming you are in the UK based on your earlier post and I am not sure if laws are similar to the US. My DH moved out in the beginning of his divorce with his ex with the idea that they would sell the house quickly. She dragged the listing and sale out for 4+ years. He had absolutely no leverage to speed up the process since he was no longer residing in the home. Just a thought.