Ah yes. There never is an end to the unexpected crap that comes with being married to a man with grown kids. I’ve got a new situation to wrap my head around and need some perspective. Here goes:
Hubby and I are out of state for combo work and vacation. H’s son lives in said state, in a different city from where we are vacationing (a four-hour drive from where H and I are).
When it comes to the skids behavior, the son is not nearly as bad as the two daughters. The son is, however, totally indifferent to me. He can acknowledge my presence, but that’s about it. In the 20 years I’ve been with H, the son has never asked me a single question about me or my life (my job, my family, etc.). I mean heck, after 20 years the kid knows virtually nothing about me. OK fine. I’m well with that since I have disengaged.
So, the son invited H and I to a concert in his city. Now, whenever I am included in any plans, my experience has taught me to assume that my inclusion is pretty much H’s idea and any skid includes me because of H’s expectation, weak as it may be. In these rare get-togethers, I don’t have fun and feel tense and uncomfortable the whole time, mostly because I’m ignored or shown indirectly that I am simply tolerated. I’ve learned to turn down any invitation, knowing they are insincere, and encourage H to go alone. I do think it is important for H to spend time with his kids and I see no reason to choose to be uncomfortable by going with him on visits. I’m done with that and at peace with staying away as my method of self-preservation.
Since we are traveling with a dog, I felt H should go to the concert with his son and I would stay with our dog, (whose company I prefer anyway). That is what we did and I am fine with it.
What I didn’t know was the son bought four tickets to the concert, ostensibly two for he and his girlfriend, and two for H and me. Here’s the surprise: H just got home and told me that his son gave “my” ticket to another female. So, the foursome was son, his girlfriend, H and a female friend. If you didn’t know any better, you might think is was a double date and a blind date for H and the female.
This just seems like a really huge dick move to me. Am I wrong?
Hmm. Interesing. Possibly a
Hmm. Interesing. Possibly a dick move.
Was the other female the friend or sister of his GF?
No. I was told she is the
No. I was told she is the son's friend.
He paid money for the ticket
He paid money for the ticket you didn't use. I see nothing wrong with letting someone else use it.
I'm wondering your age
I'm wondering your age thatgirl and if there is a generational difference of perspective here. Are you under 35? In my generation and my husband's generation, something like this would be seen as unusual, whereas younger people might not see it that way. H's son is over 35.
I'm 43. Tickets like that are
I'm 43. Tickets like that are non-refundable and it would be a shame to see it go to waste. Your SS gave it to one of his friends, probably about his age, right? I really wouldn't think of it as some sort of setup.
It sounds like because you
It sounds like because you chose not to go there was an extra ticket to be used. It appears your SS's intentions were good, in that the ticket was there for you.
If the other girl is the son's friend, that'd be creepy. It wouldn't make sense just to let the ticket go to waste, & it's hardly fair to expect him only to pass it to a guy friend. There's nothing indicating the groups would pair off into couples.
"Women are angels & when someone breaks our wings we simply continue to fly...on a broomstick. We are flexible like that."
The other girl IS the son's
The other girl IS the son's friend. Why is that creepy?
That your SS would want to
That your SS would want to set his married dad up with a girl he hangs out with? Am I reading this wrong?
"Women are angels & when someone breaks our wings we simply continue to fly...on a broomstick. We are flexible like that."
How is it a dick move if you
How is it a dick move if you had the option to go & chose not to? Should he have just tossed the ticket?
"Women are angels & when someone breaks our wings we simply continue to fly...on a broomstick. We are flexible like that."
No. He should not have just
No. He should not have just tossed the ticket. Like I said, I was not aware that the son had purchased all of the tickets and it simply did not occur to me that the son would invite one of his female friends to use the ticket. I just completely didn't think of that, so I was surprised when H told me.
I guess it seems to me that the son might have considered the possibility that giving the ticket to a female friend of his, and therefore giving the evening the appearance of a double date, could be problematic/insensitive if not a "ha ha I got you" moment.
You've explained nicely
You've explained nicely exactly what I thought goforit. The fact that this situation could be looked at as completely innocent is what makes it so difficult. If someone heard this story, but didn't know the history of 20 years of skid behavior toward me, then yeah, everything looks fine. What's the big deal?
And if course and as usual, the most hurtful thing about the whole mess is that my H is one of those people who says, "What's the big deal?" And then if I reveal my thoughts and feelings and try to explain to him why this is not a very nice thing to do, then I am percieved as having some sort of problem. You know, that I read too much into things, bla bla bla.
And that is really the issue -- that this kind of stuff has consequences, but the consequences are only for me. Each time something like this happens, the perpetrator gets to hide and I have to deal. And every time my H doesn't "get it," the distance between us grows.
The manipulations these kids come up with and engage in is astounding. God, you really gotta give them points for creativity and perseverence. And of course their general aim, which is to cause problems in my marriage if not destroy it, is achieved just a little bit more.
I'm starting to believe that there is nothing I can do. Disengaging is really the last option, and when even that doesn't get the crap to stop, well, I'm just out of ideas.
To say "stop looking for
To say "stop looking for problems that are there" sounds judgmental. You are making a lot of assumptions. That is one, and another is that the skid is polite to me -- he is not. Ignoring someone and acting like they are not in the room is not polite. Not by a long shot. You can "invite" someone somewhere and still be "impolite,"
Concert tickets aren't
Concert tickets aren't usually cheap, & the fact that he purchased one specifically for you & invited you so you could attend with your DH shows effort. You are the one who chose not to go, yet you're being judgemental about who he's allowing to use the ticket you didn't want.
It really does sound like you're looking for a way to make him out to be the bad guy. Maybe he's been an ass for years, but it isn't showing here.
Would he have been more polite if he'd just invited his dad & offered you nothing?
Hell, I'd have gone just to enjoy the concert with my DH.
"Women are angels & when someone breaks our wings we simply continue to fly...on a broomstick. We are flexible like that."
I'm in my 40's. I put
I'm in my 40's. I put conscious thought into the message I am sending. If I ask my father to come to my home for an event, I ask him and my SM. I've emailed them both before. I've asked them in person before. If it's going to involve my SM, I don't leave her out. I may very well feel like doing it, but I know it's not worth the long-term hostile feelings that would result. Likewise, there's no way my SM would not know that I purchased tickets for both of them.
Additionally, I would never surprise them by bringing a female they both didn't know. I mean, I could get away with it. But she'd make me pay later. The road goes both ways.
"Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet." - Napoleon
" Did her DH make out with
" Did her DH make out with the woman after the concert? Did they make googly-eyes or play footsie during the show?"
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I can tell you if I was the girl & my friends married dad DIDN'T make out with me, make googly-eyes at me, & play footsie with me during the show, I'd feel slighted. I'd like to think I wouldn't agree to a blind date with my dad...a man probably twice my age & NOT get some action. LOL!
"Women are angels & when someone breaks our wings we simply continue to fly...on a broomstick. We are flexible like that."
I agree with everybody. I
I agree with everybody.
I think you are likely making a big deal out of it.
I think your grown skids have been inconsiderate enough in the past, and slid so many "gotchas" at you under the rug, that your radar is spot on.
It's hard to ascertain your SS's motives. The best predictor of the future is the past. If he's always been a considerate guy, chances are this one time he overlooked what would have been considerate to you. If he's been a sly ass for most of your marriage, he likely knew it would upset you and didn't care.
As a stepmother of grown stepchildren myself, I am very aware of the digs, which are always right below the surface so that you look like a lunatic if you say anything, but so often they come with a message we all know very well: You do not matter. I feel like wearing a bumper sticker on my forehead.. "I got the message!!!"
I think if you and your DH were both your son's biological parents, he might not have been so quick to bring another female if his mother had declined. I think he might have suspected that it would be hurtful to his mother to give the appearance that he was bringing a gal around his dad. If he did go ahead and do it, it likely would have been because he had a trusting relationship with both of his parents, so no concerns were warranted.
He does not have that with you. He will never have that with you. There is no reason to suspect that he had good intentions, based on history. Sooooo, if he had wanted to keep you disarmed, he could have asked you both to come and let you know if he had purchased two tickets. That might have made a difference if you went or not. And then if you decided not to go, he could have let you both know early on, that another female might be going so that you had the opportunity to change your mind or say you weren't okay with it. Instead, he made that decision for you.
What will you do? I presume you'll file this resentment in your resentment folder. And when it comes time to include him in something, invite him somewhere, remind your DH about his birthday, make conversation when he calls, buy him something, or welcome him warmly into your home, you'll pull out that folder and remember the resentments that are in it.
Stepmothers are women first and foremost. Women don't take kindly to years of snubs, attacks and ridicule. Lots of grown stepchildren would be much better off if they'd figure this out. Instead, they want both the right to play games with their stepmothers, and to have a healthy relationship with their fathers. They can keep trying, but they rarely succeed. Nobody is really entitled to both. However, this generation of narcissist truly has themselves convinced that they are.
I'll bet you one thing. It's doubtful that your grown stepchildren would like half the hell they've brought to your doorstep. One can only hope that they are given the opportunity to find out.
"Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet." - Napoleon
He had an extra ticket and
He had an extra ticket and didn't want it to go to waste. You had a chance to go and chose not to. Completely understand that, but you can't fault him because he did have good intentions this time.
Yep. It's why at Christmas,
Yep. It's why at Christmas, there will be gifts for everyone but the SM.
Say anything about it (as I did once, and lived to regret it) and the SM is a cold, gift-obsessed, greedy, selfish bitch. The stepchildren are already so extended over the holidays. How DARE she expect some stupid gift. She should just buy it herself if some wants something that bad. How lame to expect innocent, adult children to shop for her.
It's exactly how my DH tried telling me a few days ago that OSD30 was coming to town, and they were planning to attend an event that Dh and I usually attend together. We certainly do not make plans with anyone else for this event, without discussing it with the other first. However, in the case of the princess, they had it all planned out.
It's why some adult stepchildren argue that they just want "alone" time with their fathers, although that "alone" time winds up including lots of other people, friends and family alike. It is really more about "without that hag stepmother" than "alone" time, although they'll argue otherwise.
It's why they only ever call their fathers during working hours and on his cell. The SM's can go for months and years without ever hearing their grown stepchildren's voices.... and that is very much the intention (and hey, turns out it's a good one afterall).
In the case of an emergency, they may risk calling him on a weekend. But that conversation is prefaced with, "Are you alone?" "No, StepAside is with me." "Okay, call me when you're alone.", without even trying to hide the obvious.
I have a good one. It's why when I see them for no more than a few hours about once a year, inevitably they talk about their mother, what she has, what she's up to, how wonderful she is, etc.
It's so much more subtle. But it is always there. Which is why, WE (meaning me and MY family) don't see them a whole lot. cause and effect.
"Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet." - Napoleon
It's hard not to experience
It's hard not to experience the present based on past events. I could fill pages of the stuff my H's kids have done over 20 years. A lot of it is pretty ugly, so I have formed some opinions. Those opinions are not going to magically disappear because the skid invited my H and I to a concert. Maybe he is trying to make amends. If so, talking through his dad and inviting me through his dad isn't really changing much. And some important details were left out. I did not know it was going to be a foursome. I did not know he had purchased the tickets. I assumed the three of us would attend the concert and that we each would pay for our own ticket. That's the way things have always been, so I think it is fair of me to make these assumptions even though they were wrong. At any rate, he did not give these details to my H, I did not know them, so I can't be held responsible for facts I did not know.
Also, my decision not to go was based on several things. Lack of information was one of them, and, as I mentioned, H and I would have had nowhere to take our dog. Somebody had to stay with her, and I figured H and the son could have a nice time together. I had absolutely no reason to believe his son would be disappointed if I didn't go. Based on his past behavior, I thought he would like spending time alone with his dad. Heck, I thought I was being gregarious to bow out.
The thing is, the skid was just here a couple weeks ago. He stayed with us, ate meals with us, walked around the touristy places with us, etc., for 2 days, and he only spoke to his dad. He had absoultely nothing to say to me. Nothing at all. Not even hello or good-bye. That's the way things have been for 20 years. Additionally, he brought his dad his X-mas present, which the two of them messed around with for a couple hours. There was no X-mas present for me. I don't really want a present from him, but I don't consider going to visit a couple, and giving a gift to only one person in that couple civil or polite.
I've written posts on StepTalk about relational aggression, and ingnoring people (his visit here) and purposefully leaving people out of things (the X-mas present and playing with said present) qualify as indirect aggression. Just because there is an appearance of everything being hunky dory, does not mean they are. I imagine anyone seeing us walking around the touristy areas would think everything was just great. Just because this one time it appears he did something nice, does not mean everything has changed, his intentions were pure, and the aggression has come to an end. That's what makes indirect or relational aggression so dificult to deal with. The people who do it are never held responsible and the people who are targeted begin to distrust anything the aggressor does. That's not looking for for a way to make this kid a bad guy. It's logic.
And so, what would it have been like if I had gone to the concert? Would I have been ignored the entire evening? Would my husband not notice or pretend to not notice while I sat around with my thumb up my ass? Most likely. Being ignored feels terrible. I've experienced it over and over again for a very long time, and I know how awful it feels, so I'm not going to take that chance.
Then, when H comes home and informs me that the evening was not in fact the two of them, father and son, but a foursome and that his kid brought his girlfriend and a female friend of his for his dad to talk to while he and his girlfriend enjoyed time together, well, I hope you'll excuse me if I find that a littlebe hard to take. Please excuse me if I have doubts about the kid's intentions. This isn't me looking for a problem. The problem already exists and has been there for a long long time.
I don't think I'm looking to make this kid a bad guy. I said it looked like a dick move. Big difference.
Spending two days with you,
Spending two days with you, while never speaking to you was a dick move.
If you say anything about the concert, he's going to say that he "tried" by buying "you" a ticket, but you refused to go. He didn't want it to go to waste, etc.
Whatever.
I think you, me and the rest of the stepmothers who are on the receiving end of this are just going to have to literally divorce ourselves from our own husbands during the time they are with their children. It's just time they are gone, like a business trip. Out of sight, out of mind.
They are with our enemies. No good is going to come from us trying to decipher what the grown stepchildren's next move will be or what message they are trying to send.
I contend that if any of our grown stepchildren wish to put an end to the games, it will be obvious. Until then, I believe we can all presume that nothing has changed.
"Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet." - Napoleon
but a foursome and that his
but a foursome and that his kid brought his girlfriend and a female friend of his for his dad to talk to while he and his girlfriend enjoyed time together
Did SS or your husband use that wording? If one of them did, then that person is guilty of the "dick move." Anyone who worded it like that is trying to get your goat, plain and simple.
Thanks everyone for your
Thanks everyone for your comments. This discussion has certainly helped me gain some perspective.
As far as me asking H if he knew about the foursome, I did ask and H did not know. The son said nothing about it to him and he said he was surprised to see the son's girlfriend and a female friend there. So there's that.
Also I want to be clear that I am not ranting and raving about this and pressing any kind of case that the son is a horrible person. When H told me about the evening, I just said, "Hmm. That's weird." I posted to see if anyone else thought it was weird and possibly a "gotcha" move, or a dick move as I called it.
Because there is such a long history of crap with the skids, I don't really trust anything they do anymore. I know this about myself and that it's probably not very healthy, and that's why I posted -- to solicit some other perspectives.
As far as trying to guess another person's motivations for doing something being a worthless use of my time, I agree completely. It can be hard to avoid, though, when presented with a situation that seems so strange. You ask yourself "why did so-an-so do that?" You think about it, ask a few freinds, and then, hopefully, move on. That's what I intend to do, and it helps me to move on if I can hear a few other opinions about the situation.
After hearing from all of you, I can see that this really isn't that important and I should get over it. Gotcha. Will do. Still, I do believe that this whole deal was strange from the get-go. I don't know what the kid was up to, if anything, but I just can't see this as normal behavior. That's his problem, not mine. I get that.
Kayro, I didn't say I thought this situation was a blind date for my H. I said I thought the situation, as it turned out, gave the appearance of a blind date, and perhaps that was what the skid wanted. Perhaps the skid wanted to put it out there for me to hear about and be kinda embarrased about. Perhaps it was totally innocent, but just like I don't know that he did it purposefully, I also don't know that it was totally innocent. I can't say either way. What I can say is that to my mind, the series of events is odd, and I'll have to just leave it at that.
Also Kayro, the skid was way beyond 15 when I married H. Not sure where you got that. He was out of college and supposedly and adult when I first met him.
And I understand that you would not be particularly interested in your SM's life. I don't expect my H's kids to be interested in my life either. What I do expect though, is some level of social and interpersonal politeness -- the same kind of social and interpersonal politeness that you would give to any other adult. I was raised to speak to people respectfully, and that having a conversation with someone who is clearly new to the social situation is good manners. Asking other people about who they are and what they do is conversation. That is what you do when you meet someone. It's like a verbal handshake. It's what grown-ups do. H's kids never did it, never have, and never will.
And that's what I find so incredible -- that they would hang on to that for 20 years. That, after 20 years, my H's kids, sisters, parents, all of them, have no friggin' idea of who I am or what I do. I find it incredible that after 20 years, not one of them was able to break from the group and extend a friendly hand of conversation to me. I was toast from the very beginning. It's just so unbelievable to me that grown-up people would do that. I don't think I will ever understand it.
And one last thing, and maybe this is the thing that I'm really getting at, which is that disengaging -- giving your H and his kids that "alone" time the kids seem to want so badly, bowing out of family gatherings because you've stopped trying to be part of the family, is STILL NOT ENOUGH for these people. It's still not enough for them to drop the BS and the games.
As I said, I can't know if the son's whole concert deal was a game. Maybe it wasn't. I can accept that. And if he was truly trying to make amends and be friendly, I should have gone. But as one SM said in Wednesday Martin's book Stepmonster, sometimes it's just too little too late.
"bowing out of family
"bowing out of family gatherings because you've stopped trying to be part of the family, is STILL NOT ENOUGH for these people. It's still not enough for them to drop the BS and the games."
Nothing will ever be enough. I agree with you completely.
I used to go with DH to spend holidays with his family. My SD's ruined it for me almost every time with their RA. Snubs, looks, tantrums, attempts to humiliate me.
so
I went to their town and stayed in a hotel, while DH went over with our kids. I got accused of disrespecting my MIL by staying at the hotel.
so
I stopped going and DH went alone. This his family insisted that my DH bring our kids regardless of what I thought.
so
DH was specifically requested to go alone and OSD told him he has allowed me to cut his balls off.
It NEVER ends!!!!
The other day, my DH said, "My kids can't do anything right." What in the hell? I haven't been able to do anything right in 18 freaking years!!! Pardon me for jumping off the train of defending myself. I'm not going to receive their judgment, attacks or gossip anymore. I can't win with them. I'm over it. I don't care what any of them do. I will do what I feel is right for me and my kids, period.
Never once have I ever heard anyone in his family ever indicate an ounce of remorse, not even through my DH. They have none. They just keep pushing and pushing. They can go push someone else.
The truth is, I've bitten my tongue with all of them for a very long time. Folks who know me well know that biting my tongue is not something I'm known for doing. I may bite my tongue if someone has leverage on me (as they USED to have), but I'll gain a few resentments when I'm doing it. Game over.
In cases where you've been the target of rude behavior for so long, the notion of that person just accidentally being rude to you or overlooking that you might be offended, is a joke. It'd be like saying you were accidentally shot by Dirty Harry. BS, shooting is what he does for a living! He's not going to accidentally shoot someone, particularly someone that he already hates!
At the end of the day, your SS is not a part of your day-to-day life. Your DH is. So you will have to let this go. But I guarantee you, this along with all of the other attacks you've dealt with, will pass through your mind the next time you have a say in anything involving them.
"Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet." - Napoleon
Secondwife64, I see what
Secondwife64, I see what happened as a huge dick move and most cleverly done…my word. If SS was on the up and up he would not have kept his plans (tickets for all) secret from you and your DH. And, believe me, if you did the same thing to any of this configuration of people they would feel just the same way that you do. For example, if you invited SS’s wife (when he marries) to an event and invited one of your male friends along to keep her company, he would be livid. Age is irrelevant in this scenario.
SS knows you historically decline such events for the very specific reason that he makes sure that you feel excluded, so why bother, right? He gets to double hit you with this one. If you assert yourself, you look like you are overreacting to his kind-hearted generosity, plus everyone gets along just fine with each other when you aren’t there, thereby proving once and for all that the problem is you—not him and his hateful feelings toward you.
I doubt anyone was made to feel excluded in this little social quartet. Get how that works? It is one of the backlashes of disengaging. They still find a way to draw you back in to their battle if you aren’t astute to their motives.
Now depending on how much time, thought or effort you want to spend showing him his “dick” behaviour depends on you. Myself I say have at it folks. It’s not worth wasting any time scheming or planning a return favour but if one should just happen to fall into your lap for heaven’s sake, snap it up, and show SS how it feels. Then just laugh your face off (to yourself of course) when he gets all upset and bothered which he will.
If SS were on the up and up he would have told you he had bought four tickets, he would have told you he was bringing his GF, and if for some reason (can’t think of one) he forget to mention those details to you guys, he would have given the extra ticket to one of his male friends. If he were sincere in making amends he would also have contacted you directly to ask you to reconsider seeing as how he had already purchased the tickets.
My opinion? Total dick move. So just laugh at SS, because it’s a pretty lame move and therefore not worth getting upset about. Just shows you how much class he has.
Don’t waste a minute trying to convince your DH because he has no clue and that is also very typical.
"I hope that someday we will be able to put away our fears and prejudices and just laugh at people"...Jack Handey
Totally agree with this
Totally agree with this ^^^^!!! I wonder what would happen if you invited SS to dinner with the two of you, and invited a female 'friend' that was SS's age to it because you 'assumed' SS's GF was not going to come. And even if GF came, think about the fireworks when SS's GF finds out you invited an intended 'replacement' for her. And - isn't this what really happened? The good old replacement for evil SM. Talk about wishful thinking! If the 'history' wasn't there, I could buy that this was innocent and SS had good intentions. Not this time. Been there!