strugglingat28's picture

11yo SD sitting on dad's lap/sleeping w/ dad (no clothes)?

So, in the midst of my many other dilemmas, I have another strange situation. My 11yo SD still wants to always sit on her dad's lap. She won't sit beside him, literally right on his lap and straight on top of him. She gets upset and cries or mopes if either one of us tell her she's too old for that. My husband does tell her to move since it makes me very uncomfortable to see her wiggling her butt on his lap, but he doesn't personally see the big deal.
Does anyone know what the age is too old or where to find resources to help? I have looked a few places, but no such luck. Am I wrong here? I know my SD is mad at me because she knows I don't like it. Same with sleeping with him. She tries to get him to lie with her or her to sleep next to him. Is she way too old, or is that me?

***Hi, and thank you for your opinions and comments. I just have a feeling that my SD is a very physical and sexual girl. I should explain more, but I didn't want to write a five paragraph long blog. I think my SD does these things to "take my place" and not just to be sweet. She doesn't do it when I'm not around from what I'm told. She only wants to do it when I'm in the room. She will do it when he and I are cuddling on the couch, so of course, I can't cuddle with him anymore. Plus, she wiggles directly on his "areas" and will touch his butt sometimes, try to touch him beneath his clothes because she says she likes his skin, give him long kisses on the lips (that makes even him feel uncomfortable), and he sleeps without clothing, so that is uncomfortable for me to have her spooning her naked dad. I get a strange vibe about it. Does that change it, or do you still think I'm just feeling different than you? Thank you for your input. I would appreciate more!


stephtrey's picture

oh yes, that changes it

wow! I can see how that would make you VERY uncomfortable. DH just needs to put a stop to it.

Nymh's picture

To a point...

I think that this type of behavior is kind of difficult to guage. Is the girl hanging on to her father because that's how she was raised, or is she jealous of you and trying to steal her father's affections so you can't get them? I've read several stories of other such inappropriate behavior out of girls regarding their fathers. I think it crosses the line into unacceptable after the child hits puberty and has a good education about sex.

I personally haven't sat on my dad's lap since I was very, very little...we're talking 4 or 5. But some families are raised differently than others. I've gone over to some of my girlfriends' houses and seen them walking around the house in a towel or kissing their dads at 17 years old, too. I never kiss my dad...only hugs. My family is very liberal with the hugs but we don't kiss each other. So, to a point, everyone is different...but there is a fine line between different and inappropriate.

*~So sayeth Nymh~*

—

*~So sayeth Nymh~*

strugglingat28's picture

Thanks, but what if it is "too sexual"?

Hi, and thank you for your opinions and comments. I just have a feeling that my SD is a very physical and sexual girl. I should explain more, but I didn't want to write a five paragraph long blog. I think my SD does these things to "take my place" and not just to be sweet. She doesn't do it when I'm not around from what I'm told. She only wants to do it when I'm in the room. She will do it when he and I are cuddling on the couch, so of course, I can't cuddle with him anymore. Plus, she wiggles directly on his "areas" and will touch his butt sometimes, try to touch him beneath his clothes because she says she likes his skin, give him long kisses on the lips (that makes even him feel uncomfortable), and he sleeps without clothing, so that is uncomfortable for me to have her spooning her naked dad. I get a strange vibe about it. Does that change it, or do you still think I'm just feeling different than you? Thank you for your input. I would appreciate more!

whoami's picture

I think the dad needs a good

I think the dad needs a good wake up call. I am sure he sees nothing sexual in this at all, his daughter is and probably always will be his little girl, however old she is, but she is old enough to understand that this behaviour is not right between a father and his daughter.

i have gone through a similar situaiton with my fiance and his daughter and i sat him down and talked to him about it. i told him that not only did it make me feel uncomfortable but that it sends mixed messages to his daughter, especailly in terms of how she will be with other men when she gets older. what children see, they do. that means if it's ok to dance around on daddy's lap and sleep with him at that age then she's do the same thing with men when she gets older. in addition, i told him that the last thing he wanted is legal ramifications from this. all she had to do was go to school and casually mention she sleeps with dad or describes how she dances on his lap and he will have children services knocking on his door in no time.

this opened his eyes very quickly and so he admitted he didn't realize i saw it like that (or how other will view it)and that it worried him and he never wants to give his daughter the wrong impression. so he sat down with her and explained to her that she is older and growing into a young lady now and that papa loves her very much and will always give her hugs and kisses but that she can no longer sleep with him and the way she plays or sits on his lap or they way she wants him to carry her is no longer what older girls do.

she seemed to take it quite well and it has stopped quite a bit. she still goes a little overboard with her affection when i am around and even though sometimes it makes me cringe i realize it's just that she sometimes feels a little threatened by me and wants to validate her and her fathers love. he picks up on it from time to time and and softly makes her stop or redirects her atention.

so i don't think this is unusal but a case of daughter feeling threatned by you and wanting her father to validate her love. it is your DH's responsibility to put a stop to it. as long as what you are seeing is truly to much. often times jealousy comes into play and we tend to see things more for what they really are. i too have done that. but based on your previous posts it sounds to me like this little girls has alot more issues going on. have you gotten her (and your hubby) into therapy yet?

Hanny's picture

My BF's daughter does the same...

But she doesn't sleep with him. There has been 1 or 2 times in the last 5 years that she's come to his room because she was scared, and he let her lie in his bed, but just for a little while. But I think it is way inappropriate that she is laying in bed with her dad and he is nude! My BF's daughter just turned 13. I too just recently talked to him about it, and he agreed that he needs to talk to her about it. Because she again only does it when I'm around. He has said for sometime that it makes him uncomfortable sometimes when she starts rubbing him on his arms, his stomach, neck, etc. But it seems to have gotten worse in the last few months. It is very uncomfortable for me to watch. I usually get up and walk out of the room, or leave the pool or whever it is taking place. He hasn't talked to her yet, but then we just talked about it a week ago. I know she is having problems accepting another female in her Dad's life, but I've been around her now for about 1 1/2 years, and it doesn't seem to be getting any better.

My BF is going to tell her that after a certain age, some things are no longer appropriate for a father daughter to be doing. And since she just had her 13th BD this I think will be appropriate. I know she knows this isn't right or she would be doing it all the time whether I'm around or not. I'll let you know how the talk goes after they have it.

Hanny

southernshellgirl's picture

I think your feelings are fight on.

I know some families are closer and more affectionate than others, but I think you're right and what she is doing is inappropriate.

I would be careful though, I would be sure that Dad lets her down easy and makes statements of fact about what is okay at her age. I think it is important that SD not see it as you making him tell her because it will prob. add even more tension between you and SD as she may feel like you won. And I don't know of her maturity, but I don't think it should be pointed out that Dad could get into trouble for her behavior because I would fear if she feels rejected by him she could make allegations of abuse to get him in trouble.

I hope it is something that can be addressed and she will move on. Just giving you some of the thoughts that came to my mind.
Good luck.

Two roads diverged in a yellow wood, and I---
I took the one less traveled by,
and that made all the difference. -Robert Frost-

—

"It could be better... or it could be worse. For now, it just is..."

-Colorado Girl-

gertrude's picture

I am with you

I am not comfortable with that type of behavior. It was good to read the other comments from folks that have families that are more "touchy" then the way I have been raised. But, if she is doing it as a way to compete with you, then yes, I think something should be done and the line should be drawn - because there is no way it is appropriate that a daughter should compete with a wife "in that way". So she needs to learn. I think southernshellgirl is right on though - Dad needs to let her down easy. My SD is 20, and has recently come to live with us, and I have a tough time with the "raised differently" versus inappropriate competative behavior. I've drawn my line at must stay clothed and no inappropriate touching. (like Dad can't adjust her bra straps - and yes, I had to intervene on that one, I can't believe she even asked!)It is a power play, and it is irritating as all get out!

Hanny's picture

Yea that would have irritated me too...

I thought they'd outgrow this...not still be doing it at 20! Would think they would have enough of a life of their own and not be worried about occupying Daddy's time. I'm certainly not looking forward to many more years of this jealousy. In my first marriage I had all step sons, no girls so didn't encounter this. And I do agree that the step mom should not be involved in the conversation about the inappropriate behavior, that would only give her reason to feel more jealous of you. I'm not even going to ask my BF if he talked to her about it..I'm just going to see if things change. And if they don't, then I will ask him if he has talked to her. Like most of these Dad's he is so afraid of making her mad or upsetting her and she will not want to come back to his house. And of course, the BM is always threatening that will happen also.

marika's picture

I agree with you too

this is far too sexual. Long kisses, spooning with dad while dad is naked...this is far beyond normal touchy, feely family things. I am from a very affectionate family and we NEVER did this. You are right to want to put a stop to it and the dad needs to see that she is competiting with you as if she were his girlfriend, not his daughter.

strugglingat28's picture

UPDATE: He's tried...now what?

So, my husband told his daughter to stop rubbing on his lap and that he would love to snuggle with her, but that he wanted to be comfortable too, and her sitting on top of him makes him uncomfortable. He said he would love for her to sit beside him and snuggle, but she just smiled and sat on him anyway.
Then, he moved over so she would be next to him, and she sat right back on top of him again, and again, and again!
He told her to stop a little less sweetly, and she said "no!".
He asked why she was so insistent about this, and she said "because I want to. What's the big deal?"
He told her she is too old for that and asked if any of her other friends do this, and she admitted they don't sit on their dad's lap the way she does, but that she loves her dad more than than they do.
So, he told her that he was not going to allow it but that he would love to cuddle still. She got upset again, left the room, came back later and begged to sit on his lap. He said no, again nicely, but firmly this time.
She did it anyway again!
He then tried to make a joke of it and said he was going to let out a "really smelly fart" from the pressure on his belly. First, she joked back and told him he looked bloated or pregnant (he's really a normal sized man but he was a little bloated from eating too much salt...sorry for the "didn't need to know that" side note).
So then he said, with a smile and giggling, maybe I am bloated and pregnant. She then started pushing on his stomach herself and saying "there's no baby", "you're a boy, you can't have a baby", and then got mad and said "if I were enough for you, if you loved me enough, you wouldn't need another baby". Then she followed with "if you guys have kids, then they will just annoy me and take my stuff".
He assured her that wouldn't happen and she then just sat right back on his lap again!!!
He firmly told her to move, but she didn't care and said she wasn't moving.
Then, he raised his voice a litte bit and told her to move. She was being disrespectful and that he was not going to argue with her anymore.
She stormed off, but in the midst of doing so, replied with "you won't be able to stay mad at me, you love me, I'm your angel, daddy."
Then, I just closed my eyes for a second when she left and looked at him. He said "she's right."
UGH!
He picked her up and moved her to the side of him and looked at her firmly and said, she needs to stop that and she is being disrespectful.

Persephone's picture

Yuck and Get a Grip

on it now!! My SD-16 used to crawl/hang all over DH when she was younger. Still hangs on him will move in when I am near. Has even cut in for dances at a wedding. That was the last time that I put up with it. He allowed it, so that was his dance partner for the whole rest of the evening. In fact she stayed glued to his side so I left to hang out with others. Even his friends left the two of them alone!! Later he asked why I didn't enjoy the evening with him. You had your date for the evening and seemed to enjoy it. I think it is whacked and you should not allow it. Quit allowing your 16 yr old act like a 5 yr old. With SD it is social ineptness as well as a competition.

Hanny's picture

Well...

I give him credit for being so direct with her...again and again. I think the next time she does it, he just needs to get up and let her fall on the floor...and every time she does it...he needs to repeat it. Get up and go do something else. She will finally get the picture that he isn't going to back down on this. And when she finally sits beside him, then he should snuggle a little and show her that closeness can be done in a differnt way.

Wow...I am really surprised that she kept at it. And he should say, I'm not mad at you and yes I do love you, but your not going to do this anymore! If he backs down now..you will both be sorry.

Because you know and so should he...the whole thing of her spooning next to him while he is naked is just not right! I would be upset if they were spooning even if he was in PJ's.

Good Luck!

southernshellgirl's picture

UUUgghhh about the baby thing!

I just started getting the same thing about the baby thing from my 3yo SD. I had taken her to my cousin's baby shower and she got all excited and started telling DH and I that she wanted a baby. DH told SD (and I honestly thought is was a little too soon because we are not pregnant yet, but oh well) that one day I was goning to have a baby. She continued to be excited for a couple of weeks, then all of a sudden she started saying the opposite. Several times a day she will get whiney and upset and tell me, "I don't want you to have a baby, I don't like baby's!" I finally asked her if someone told her to feel that way and she said nana (BM's abusive mother) did. She said, "Her (Nana) said her not want you to have a baby and it's bad!"
I was so mad!!! I very calmly told SD that it was not nice of Nana to say that to her and that we are not having a baby right now, but one day if we do it will be because God wants us to have a baby and we will be thankful. I told her that if we do have a baby one day it will be her little brother or sister and Not Nana's so Nana should not say mean things like that. SD got quiet and hasn't said anything about it since. How sick of that violent, manipulitive control freak, bad mother woman to try to F**K with the mind of a three year old! B***H! There, I feel better. I hope your SD gets over the competition thing if you do plan to have a child with DH.

Two roads diverged in a yellow wood, and I---
I took the one less traveled by,
and that made all the difference. -Robert Frost-

—

"It could be better... or it could be worse. For now, it just is..."

-Colorado Girl-

deltadeliquent's picture

Wow! I am new to this board

Wow! I am new to this board and have much the same problem but on a much lesser scale...so far.
From what I have read I wonder if there is any possibility of sexual abuse happening to the daughter. Not by the Dad, but perhaps by someone else????
Scary. I hope this extreme is NOT what I have to look forward to.

DYNAMITE's picture

My thought too

Has she done this with other males or just him?

"I wish I could sell her for what she thinks she is worth, I'd be a millionare." HA HA, -insert evil grin here....

strugglingat28's picture

She's still not stopping..so he gave up

It's annoying. He tried and tried to stop her (I am glad for the efforts), but like everything else, she is so persistent that he gives in to her, and it makes me frustrated. I try to show this to him, but he won't listen. He can't see his daughter for who she is. I love her, but I can tell the difference between behaviors and she is really manipulative.
Now what?

DYNAMITE's picture

Sounds like

He needs to talk to her about this persistant problem and maybe even get very direct with her and dont let off the subject when she is doing it. Don't let himm give in to her at all, and maybe even punish her if she dosn't give up that behavior. That is not mentally healthy for her.

"I wish I could sell her for what she thinks she is worth, I'd be a millionare." HA HA, -insert evil grin here....

petitesphinx's picture

Hi, She might JUST be an

Hi,

She might JUST be an immature 11 year old. My 11 year old would NEVER sit on any daddy's lap...as she's "too cool" and outgrew that years ago. If I pictured my 11 year old naked around any grown man (she looks 15) I'd shudder, scream and she'd put clothes on. that is way too old (in our home) to be running around sans clothing.

But my only concern is for you and hubby. IF SD is 11 and anywhere naked around a grown man (even her BD)--that is grounds for abuse charges (which would come from BM). So please, be careful.

11 is coming of age of periods, sexual feelings, pubic hair, little nubs (boobs)..etc. So that is past the age of a cute little 5 year old sitting on daddy's lap and runs more into crossing the dangerous fine line of innocent loving vs too much touching & "Is it appropriate?"

And of course, how would it sound in court (if BM took DH back) to hear an 11 yr old say, "Daddy lets me or Daddy like it when I sleep with him naked...Daddy likes it when I sit on his lap.." ALL very innocent true to life, but these lawyers and judges can take any innocent situation and make our husbands look like creeps.

Sorry, had to post mine. Be careful, please!! =-)

Rags's picture

That is just creepy. I can understand an 11yo getting curious

about the adult anatomy of both sexes but lapdancing on Dad's crotch and crawling in bed with him while he is naked is just WRONG. IMHO.

I take more exception with your DH's tolerating it than I do the 11yo doing it.

This really is not about your problem with it, it is about DH's poor judgement in tolerating it or allowing it to happen more than once.

To me, there is an extreme amount of risk in DH allowing this to happen at all. If the XW/BM gets wind of this she will have the leverage to lead your DH and YOUR family around by DH's scrotum as long as your SD is under a Custody/Visitation/Support CO.

I would get this fixed immediately if not sooner.

Good luck and best regards,

Success is rarely final. Failure is rarely fatal. It is character, courage and consistency of effort that count. Vince Lombardi (with some minor Rags modifications)

—

A parent is an example, mentor, confidante, advocate and disciplinarian. Not a buddy. - Rags

If you can't listen and learn then you will have to feel. - WLR

Rags's picture

Growing up my family was and still is very affectionate .

Strug,

Hugs and a kiss on the cheek kind of stuff. My Dad also and still does sleep naked. There were many occasions when I, my brother or both of us would go in to Mom and Dad's room at bedtime and sit on the edge of the bed and banter with Mom and Dad. But, Dad was always IN bed covered up and there was nothing untoward about it. When we were all done BSing we would give them a hug and kiss on the cheek and go to our own room(s).

There is and should be nothing sexual about affection between a parent and a child.

This type of thing is one of those situations that when it is wrong you know it when you see it.

Obviously you see it and it should be addressed.

IMHO.

Best regards,

Success is rarely final. Failure is rarely fatal. It is character, courage and consistency of effort that count. Vince Lombardi (with some minor Rags modifications)

—

A parent is an example, mentor, confidante, advocate and disciplinarian. Not a buddy. - Rags

If you can't listen and learn then you will have to feel. - WLR

JONWINSER's picture

I think you are an absolute

I think you are an absolute idiot for thinking this way! I hope people start judging you this way everytime you press your boob up against a child by hugging them or showing them affection! No wonder why this world is screwed up! People that think this way certainly doesnt help .. Start to notice how many times your boobs can actually get in the way and try to avoid it! You will soon realize how hard it is to have any of the cute intamacy a mother & son or daughter would share! Also , its quite common that the women think this way on THEIR DAUGHTERS only and wouldnt say the same thing with the mans son sitting in his lap! GET SOME COUNSELLING .. NOT ALL MEN ARE PIGS .....INFACT MOST ARENT!

Auteur's picture

Hmmm. . .Member for ten

Hmmm. . .Member for ten MINUTES. .and already trying to "correct" and "scold" people on a two year old post for venting.

TROLLER ALERT!

—

The only thing these biodads should feel guilty about is the fact that they didn't wear a condom.

Dicky's picture

How do you know how she acts

How do you know how she acts while you aren't around? Maybe even more goes on and with your husbands consent.

Jordje2012's picture

We studied different sexual

We studied different sexual phases in philosophy and at around that age the daughter's get jealous of the mother figure and want to be with their father on their own. Boys act the same but with the mother. If you ignore it it should soon pass