PoisonApples's picture

Blistering a BARE ass with a Belt or Paddle

This came up on another blog and I wondered what other people's opinions are. Maybe I'm the odd one out with my opinion.

It was said that appropriate punishment is blistering a bare ass with a belt, paddle, hand

EDIT - This was advocated for OLDER children -age 12+. If I heard of a grown man who was baring the asses of someone that age I'd want him arrested.
END EDIT

I was sickened when I read this. I don't think any human being EVER has the right to humiliate another, particularly a child and making them bare their asses to be beaten with an object is all about humiliation, power and control. I AM opposed to spanking for me and my family but I do understand that some people want to do it and that it's their right to do so if it works for them as long as it's done in moderation.

However, making a child remove their clothing for punishment is a step WAAAY too far in my opinion. I think it's sadistic.

I'm curious what others think though. I am the one with the minority opinion?

PoisonApples's picture

The person advocating this

The person advocating this was talking about kids 12 years and older too.

Frankly, I think any SOB who bares a 12 year old's ass - for ANY excuse unless he's a doctor doing an exam - should be in prison but that's just my opinion.

anita...sigh's picture

Once they are old enough to

Once they are old enough to communicate and reason with (not older than 3) there is no reason to swat a kid except for real shitty parenting.

The punishment noted above is physical assault, sexual assault, assault with a weapon and assault causing bodily harm. All serious criminal offences. This bastard should be tracked down and reported to the authorities.

—

We all smile in the same language

anita...sigh's picture

So did I! And I have spanked

So did I!

And I have spanked my kids after 3 but I know now that one kid it was effective and one it wasn't.

I'm not judging here but the punishment described by the o/p is absuvive

You have to find what is the most effective punishment for a child and use that to your advantage.

Most people who use corporal punishment (myself included) do NOT cross the boundary of abuse but the corporal punishment described by the 0/p is.

—

We all smile in the same language

PoisonApples's picture

We had to go out and pick out

We had to go out and pick out the switches too but that was so long ago.

I just couldn't do it with any of my kids. I do understand that some do and it works for them. I guess the key is doing what works right for you. Spanking wouldn't have worked for me because it just didn't feel right to me. If you can pull it off and it works, more power to you. I found other ways and I've got grown kids who are doing great and were never in trouble so it worked for us.

Anyway, I was just shocked at what I read. I didn't think anyone still thought that it was OK to humiliate a child by pulling their pants down and hitting a bare bottom. I just don't see the point in degrading and humiliating them that way. I'd guess that's a good way to teach children to hate, especially an older child.

I mean, my god, a child of 12 will have pubic hair. A girl may be having her period. I just can't imagine having some old leach thinking it's a great thing he's doing if he bares their asses.

I'm still thoroughly disgusted at the thought.

SteppingUp's picture

I have mixed feelings on

I have mixed feelings on spanking. In my youth, I remember being spanked, but not very often. The very last time I was spanked it was by my mother, and I must have been in about 5th or 6th grade. My parents got into a fight about it afterwards because my dad felt that I was too old to be spanked, and at the time I of course agreed with him. I still agree with him now that I'm a 'parent' and I can see that at that age there would be much more effective punishments (grounding from friends, tv, computer, etc) than spanking. I had been smarting off to my mother though and her first reaction after growing so angry with me was to spank me.

I don't feel comfortable spanking as I've come to realize that in the moments where I feel like a spank is needed, I actually need a time out as much as the kid. I think sometimes when our anger builds to a place where it hasn't been before (or in awhile), we need a quick release, and spanking seems an easy to way to kill two birds with one stone -- the child causing the anger is getting punished and the spanker is offered a release.

On the other side of things, I sometimes see spanking as a last resort. For example, SS3 has a knack for already being in trouble, doing something to make his situation worse, and then smiling or laughing about it. Last night, he drew on our microfiber, tan couch with permanent marker. He was caught by DF. We both gave him a yelling at, which caused him to cry a little bit, but it was fakey crying. I grabbed a rag and soap and he had to sit there and try to clean it by himself. He was told he would be going to bed right after dinner. I supervised as I could see that DF needed a time out. Every time the kid looked at me and said, "Done!" and it was clearly not done as he'd barely touched it, I could feel the anger welling inside of me. I had to leave the room to check dinner on the stove (and give myself a time out) and I told him that he better still be cleaning when I get back. I left for 30 seconds. I came back and he was jumping up and down on the OTHER couch, giggling and laughing. My anger hit the ROOF. He got screamed at again by me, this time DF came in again because I have NEVER yelled at SS that bad. Then we discovered that he lost the rag. I counted to 5 for him to find his rag -- very slowly -- and he couldn't find it. He started to laugh and was smiling. DF spanked him, and in my opinion it was totally justified. SS sat and cleaned the couch for a half an hour, crying.

The only times I've ever seen DF spank SS is when it's been a situation like this -- total defiance, we've already issued a time out or consequence(s) and he continues...and then LAUGHS about it. In 2 years, I remember 4 occassions where DF has spanked SS3 and only once when he has spanked SD5.

Synaesthete's picture

I don't feel comfortable

I don't feel comfortable spanking as I've come to realize that in the moments where I feel like a spank is needed, I actually need a time out as much as the kid. I think sometimes when our anger builds to a place where it hasn't been before (or in awhile), we need a quick release, and spanking seems an easy to way to kill two birds with one stone -- the child causing the anger is getting punished and the spanker is offered a release.

---

This part just reminds me of something I read once. After our heart rates rise to a certain point as a result of stress, logical parts of our brain lock up and we quite literally are unable to reason. Taking a step back or a time out is good for any conflict, and from that angle I can see where the impulse to spank comes from even though I disagree with it.

PoisonApples's picture

Maybe. My instinct has been

Maybe. My instinct has been to not take much of it seriously.

I just couldn't let this one go though.

It's not the spanking part that has me worked up. It's the humiliation of having a child that old remove their clothing that makes me sick.

Plus I'm in the worst mood today that I've been in for several months so that probably has a lot to do with it.

PoisonApples's picture

It really depends on the

It really depends on the circumstances. I try to make the punishment fit the crime as much as possible.

SD used to pull ALL the clothes off the hangars and toss them all around the room. She'd do this every time she was over. I got so sick of hanging everything up again just to have her trash it. Her 'consequences' were that I pulled everything out of EVERY closet and made her rehang EVERYONE's clothes. It took hours but I didn't relent. She had to do it before she could do anything else, including have dinner with the rest of the family.

She hasn't pulled the clothes out of the closet since.

I did something similar with my DD years ago when she consistently wouldn't follow our family practice of rinsing off your dinner plate and putting it in the dishwasher. I pulled out every dish in the house and made her wash them by hand.

It worked.

SteppingUp's picture

That's a tough question, as

That's a tough question, as the things you mentioned we use as common consequences: bed early, no TV, or take away favorite toys, and they seem to work....and if we wanted something bigger we'd probably just combine a few things or stretch them a few days. Another one that would work well for my SS3 would be to have to be in his room or another room by himself for a certain amount of time. He usually doesn't mind his alone time for about 10 minutes but it would kill him to be alone for an hour and not have his sister to play with, especially if we were all playing a game or something. This would probably be equal to a spank for him.

BitterSM's picture

The bed wetting scenario

The bed wetting scenario bothers me. My SD 11 still wets the bed at night we have taken her to the Dr several times to have things checked the DR told us that it's not a physical problem but lots of kid's bladders just don't shut down at night like they are supposed to and when their body is ready it will. I have a friend whose daughter didn't stop until she was 13. This is not a behavior issue its a body function issue that they can't control, they are asleep! I haven't read the post that person wrote but I don't see how humiliating the child would have worked. As far as punishments we use that seem to be effective, for the boy 14 it's taking away TV for the girl 11 it's hard labor, raking the yard, scrubbing bathrooms etc.

—

Don't give anyone free rent in your head that you wouldn't let stay in your house! (BM's for sure!)

mommybear's picture

yeah, i'd say that's crossing

yeah, i'd say that's crossing a line. ew.

Chavez's picture

I'm not a fan of bare butt

I'm not a fan of bare butt spankings at all and I gave my DS plenty of spankings over his pants so I'm not against spankings altogether.

However, when my brother and I were kids, he was probably about 11 or 12 at the time we were both in serious trouble for something (I have no recollection of what) and we had to "wait for dad to get home". In the meantime we both knew we'd had it so my brother the genius goes to his room and puts on several pair of underwear and an extra pair of jeans for extra padding. Sooooo, when dad got home and had the belt I got my swats and when my brother bent over dad saw the extra padding and my brother snickered to him like he was oh so smart. Dad had him strip bare over that and he got twice as many swats. I'm pretty sure my brother deserved it. Sticking out tongue

Rags's picture

Who said anything about

Who said anything about removing clothing? Dropping your pants and bending over is not removing clothing. Rearranging ..... yes, removing ... no. We are not talking about parading a naked kid in front of a tribunal before a flogging. We are talking about reasonable corporal punishment.

Regardless of if one is a proponent of corporal punishment of not, it can be an effective way to discipline.

The edit mentioning 12yr olds was also associated with a comment about caning miscreants in Singapore for graffiti, littering and spitting gum on side walks and not specifically for reasonable corporal punishment for a child. I personally believe that if kids had consequences when they were young we would not have many of the issues we have today as a society. That is why I mentioned Singapore in the other thread. There is no graffiti in Singapore because the adults nor the children want to be publicly strapped to a flogging frame to have their butts turned in to hamburger by a bamboo cane.

I think strapping a few idiot miscreant adults to a frame and flogging their asses in to hamburger would work here too. To bad no judge in this country has the balls to invoke that sentence. IMHO of course.

We spanked our son (my SS) when appropriate until he was ~12-13. He received maybe a half a dozen spankings in his life. I believe that spanking looses it's effectiveness at ~12-13. I got about a half a dozen spankings in my life. I got spanked the last time when I was ~ 14. My mom was pissed because my little bro and I were significantly late for dinner so she spanked us. I laughed. My little bro and mom also laughed. That ended my career of getting spanked. I was 14yo nearly 6ft tall. My mom is 5'1". Did I have to bend over and take a spanking? Nope, but I did because I respect my mom. We all still laugh about that spanking when it comes up.

As indicated by those who had to go cut their own switch .... the lead up is often more memorable than the actual swats. My dad was a belt guy. He would give the pre swat lecture while popping the belt against the side of his leg. Very effective tension leading up to the swats I have to tell you.

Not all kids require spanking. If your's don't .... that is great. I wish that were the case for all kids. But, for some kids, a spanking is entirely appropriate and necessary. I hate it when I encounter incorrigible little shits who run amok in public while there idiot parents ignore their behavior with a blank drooling stare or laugh it off as "isn't he so cute". It is all I can do to not spank the shit out of their idiot parents when I am sitting at dinner in a restaurant and a kid is screaming and running around the restaurant. SMACK!!!!

I think of spanking as a deterrent against poor behavior. Too bad we can't spank the shit out of the parents who don't teach their children appropriate behavior while expecting the rest of us to tolerate their incorrigible spawn.

All IMHO of course.

Best regards,

—

A parent is an example, mentor, confidante, advocate and disciplinarian. Not a buddy. Parenting is not a popularity contest. -Rags

If you can't listen and learn then you will have to feel.-WLR

If you want to be a piece of my life then use your head

PoisonApples's picture

I noticed the same thing. I

I noticed the same thing.

I actually wrote a response to this a while back but didn't end up posting it.

There's a lot of anger in that post. I think therapy to deal with the violent tendencies would be in order.

Rags's picture

Wow, that is a sad story. I

Wow, that is a sad story. I am sorry that happened to you.

I agree that spanking should never be done in anger.

Best regards,

—

A parent is an example, mentor, confidante, advocate and disciplinarian. Not a buddy. Parenting is not a popularity contest. -Rags

If you can't listen and learn then you will have to feel.-WLR

If you want to be a piece of my life then use your head

Chavez's picture

And THAT is the difference

And THAT is the difference between a good pop on the butt and a pure out beating. There is an enormous difference.

WHERESMYWART's picture

I agree!

I agree! Smiling

—

"Love is that condition in which the happiness of another person is essential to your own."
--Robert Heinlein

PoisonApples's picture

You know, I am a non violent

You know, I am a non violent person. I've actually written books on non-violent resistance (don't look for them, out of print already - weren't ever anywhere NEAR any best-seller list!)

However, I think if someoen put a FINGER on my child in an aggressive way I could damn passivity to hell and really let loose on them.

StepAside's picture

How hard is it to write a

How hard is it to write a book PA? How hard is it to get published? How long does it take to write one? Do you put yourself on a schedule? How many pages in a day?

—

(แƒฆห˜โŒฃห˜แƒฆ)

Synaesthete's picture

Personally, I am against

Personally, I am against corporal punishment. I believe it to be out-dated and studies have actually shown links between higher levels of aggression and violence in children who are spanked than in children who are not. I know that isn't the case for everyone, but it's worth looking at IMO. It makes sense - children look up to their parents and imitate them. The problem with spanking out of anger or frustration vs. spanking without those emotions and from a pure attention-getting standpoint is children can't differentiate between those two. They don't understand adult emotions as easily as we do, and while it's clear even to a child that someone is angry if they're yelling and screaming not all people exhibit anger that way.

One of the bigger issues, in my mind, and I said this on the aforementioned thread as well, is that corporal punishments don't really teach anything. They set the example that if you do something wrong, you'll be spanked but it doesn't teach the hows and whys of the behaviour that was wrong in the first place. If you teach them to make good decisions, they can refrain from certain behaviours even if you aren't there to be a reminder of what will happen if they get caught. The example I like to use is colouring on the walls or tables - the kid doesn't understand how long it takes to clean or repaint or how much it's going to cost to replace. That's when you explain that it makes a mess and we want to keep our things nice, have them scrub the mess up by themselves (or if they're very young with minimal help from me) and if they are unable to keep the crayons on the paper in the future, you reiterate why it's wrong, have them clean it up again and then take the crayons away until they're able to make a better decision on where to colour.

If you spank the kid for it, what's to stop them from doing it at school? Or a friend or relative's house, should you not be there? In the adult world, you don't get spanked for damaging property - you take the time and money to repair or replace it.

As I said before, that's a very simplistic example but the principle is that there is a difference between "punishment" and "discipline". Punishment implies using shame, fear and/or pain for retribution for a bad behaviour. Discipline implies teaching. That doesn't mean being permissive, either, which is what I think many people who are pro-spanking misunderstand.

It means you have realistic expectations, you teach and explain and you enforce, and if the decisions being made are still bad ones then there are logical consequences. If the kid won't clean up his toys even though you've asked him to, you take away whatever seems to be distracting him from doing it and if he still doesn't, you take the toys away. If the kid mouths back, you tell them to "Try again." and give them the feeling words they need to better articulate their feelings. A 4 year old who calls you stupid or says they hate you doesn't mean that they think you're stupid or they hate you - it means that they're angry and those are the strongest words and phrases they know to express that. That doesn't make it okay to speak to an adult that way, and that's where you step in to give them better words. You let them try again. You repeat that every time it happens and every time they're unable to make a good decision in their word choices, they can go to their rooms or you simply ignore it. IMO, it isn't being permissive because what a kid who says those things wants is your attention. If you engage with a child who is immature (because they're a child) it's a waste of your energy because it becomes a power struggle, and there is no power struggle - you're the adult, period. If you don't give immature words power, they lose their appeal to the kids. If the kid won't come when you call, you go get her. If the kids are fighting or hitting each other, you mediate, take away the source of the conflict or you separate them.

You repeat things and remind them what the better thing to do would be and you enforce *logical* consequences every time they fail to make one of those good decisions. It may take longer to get results than a swat on the behind, but the results you do get will be made because the child knows that it's a better idea, not because they're afraid, and they'll carry that with them whether you're right there watching or not. It takes more time and I understand it's hard to be patient sometimes, especially when it's the same thing over and over again, but over time I believe it to be a more effective tool.

The lack of fear also means that they're more likely to tell you if they did something wrong. They don't have any reason to hide or lie or be ashamed if they did something wrong if they know the reaction from you, even if you are angry with them, will be one of guidance instead of a painful/shameful spanking.

As far as bare vs. clothed, I disagree with both but don't see the necessity, even from a pro-spanking point of view of having a child pull their pants down. There's no logical reason why that would be necessary if it wasn't about humiliation, even if the parent using that method doesn't realize it.

That was long and let me again add a disclaimer to say that I realize not everyone shares these views and that's fine; I'm not here to push my beliefs into anyone's face. This is just, for me, a better option.

Rags's picture

100% of my parent's children

100% of my parent's children are graduate degreed professionals and 6 figure earners. We are in our early and mid 40's.

My parents have 4 grandkids who are all great kids. We have all raised or are raising kids who have so far turned out to be well behaved, polite, respectful, eloquent, affectionate children with solid values and character. They are not perfect, but they are good kids. I am confident that the trend will continue.

We were spanked and our kids are/were spanked. Not regularly but when necessary.

My parents never hit us and we never hit our kids. A few forceful well placed swats to the butt cheeks is a spanking not hitting.

Were you ever swatted on the rump as a kid? I can confidently state that you most likely were. What does a parent do when they catch their toddler trying to stick a toy or a fork in a wall socket? POP!! on the diaper accompanied by an urgent NO!.

Guess what? Your parents spanked you.

I would not be able to keep my mouth shut either if I observed someone hitting a child. I would for sure defend the child. But .... I would also not interfere with a parent who was disciplining their child. In fact I would applaud that parent for caring enough about their child to discipline them appropriately.

I have no problem with parents who don't spank. What I have a problem with is incorrigible little shits who run amok through a restaurant disturbing other people who hare attempting to have a nice meal while the clueless parents of the snotty little brats ignore their incorrigible POS shit kid. I would love to bend those little shits over my knee and blister their little asses. Since I am not their parent and it is not my prerogative to do so, I loudly call for the manager of the establishment, rant about being disturbed by the little shits and request that the little snots and their idiot parents be removed from the establishment so the rest of the people attempting to enjoy their meal can eat and talk in peace.

Public humiliation and ridicule works well in those situations. Usually the kids remain clueless but publicly barring the asses of their worthless parents is priceless and they usually either leave in a huff of they get their brats under control.

Either way I have addressed the situation.

To each his own on effective discipline. I have no issue with spanking or not spanking as long as the parents deal with their children effectively.

Just my thoughts of course.

Best regards,

—

A parent is an example, mentor, confidante, advocate and disciplinarian. Not a buddy. Parenting is not a popularity contest. -Rags

If you can't listen and learn then you will have to feel.-WLR

If you want to be a piece of my life then use your head

Stpma's picture

Children can be extremely

Children can be extremely frustrating, step, bio, or otherwise... I take care of kids all week and trust me.. by friday I'm ready to rip my hair out on the especially bad weeks. I don't hit other peoples kids but my own will get a swat occasionally. And yes I yell at them to tell them to stop yelling because otherwise they don't hear you. I guess different people have different tolerance levels and different opinions on how to raise kids, but each kid is unique and that must be taken into account as well. But pulling down the pants I think is odd,and I don't think "tools" are necessary.

—

"Insanity is hereditary; you can get it from your children."
S. Levenson

Dory's picture

I remember clearly my father

I remember clearly my father did just that to me when I was under the age of 7 - probably 5 or 6. He did it in front of visitors. I can still feel my cheeks sting with the utter embarrassment of it. It is sooooo wrong. I haven't got a clue why he did it - I don't recall any other smack from him.