My dh & I just had this conversation @ dinner. He is of the opinion that "when it's over, it's over" so no need to communicate and since his "feelings for her" have died, she or her presence does not bother him at all. Unlike me, who, when she is present, I hate it & it makes me very uncomfortable. When he does speak with EX (which is more often than I would like) he is civil & polite, there have NEVER been any raising of voices or threats, it's all been very amicable. They may not have always agreed on things, but they were very mature about it and did not allow it to affect the kids. I also think that the whole issue of children & who does what, etc, falls mostly to the women in the relationship(s). Whether they be BM or SM, the man in the picture may take responsibility for visitation of his children when dating a woman, but it seems like "we gals" just like to "step in" and begin to handle things for the guys. We start out cooking meals & next thing we know, we are picking them up at school, etc. We just can't seem to let the "boys" do their thing without participating. I not saying that's bad, I'm just saying that my DH only got involved with my son upon request, he never had an opinion & did not interfere. I would say that he exhibited a different level of day to day involvment than I think we as women demonstrate with SK's. Most men for some reason have a better feel for boundaries than women, or at least that has been my experience. In an attempt to get my DH to understand "why" his EX bugs me so much, I said "how would you feel if my EX just showed up at the door & came to visit without an invitation?" His caveman response was, he shrugged his shoulders and went "hmmm, whatever". They just don't get it. Men tend to "pigeon hole" their lives and one part usually doesn't, in their eyes, lap over into the next. Any flow over usually results in them shutting down & letting someone else deal with it. I once read a really good book about men & "triangulation"...when a man is emotionally torn between 2 people, i.e. his mother & his wife or his wife & his EX, his child & his new wife i.e. SM. They just don't emotionally know what to do, it's like how do I deal with having some form of emotion for more than one person at a time. They are very confused and frequently shut down. Oh, the book was "The Dance of Connection" by Harriet Lerner. A very good read...

Anyway, back to the point, I don't know why it is so different, all I know is that it can be very hard & difficult. I wish I had better answers but I don't. Right now, I'm in the mode of why do I let her get to me, when it doesn't seem to bother anyone else? So, I'm sorta' beating myself up right now, it's usually the step I take before I try to forgive her, DH & SK's for their choices & the hurt it has caused me and once again attempt to emotionally move on. I have obviously been down this road several times...go figure, will it ever end? I had to laugh when I read a recent groups of post's entitled "would you marry your spouse again if you knew what you know now"...one response was only if he was a widower!!!!

Speaking as a woman, women are some vindictive, mean, catty creatures. Ever hear the phrase "Hell Hath No Fury Like a WOMAN Scorned?? There ain't no phrase talkin' bout Hell Hath No Fury Like a Man Pissed Off is there?? Of course not!!!!

Men are simple creatures. They like to eat, fart and live their lives with no drama. They are (mostly) NOT analytical, and when their feelings are done, they are done. And because the presence of their ex wife doesn't bother THEM, then, goldarn, honey, why should it bother YOU!?

They Just. Don't. Get. It.

Very rarely do you hear of a woman who's husband is being a righteous DICK and withholding the kids, parental alienation, etc. That's a "scorned woman's" trick, and unfortunately it comes at the expense of the new wife, the kids, and the man that had the COLLOSSAL NERVE to MOVE ON.

And what's even funnier is men will usually pal up with OUR ex's in a type of "all guys together," - I mean, men don't care as long as they can talk about football and what kind of beer they drink, they're happy. Take two women in that same situation and it's all about sizing up each other's outfits, highlights (or lack thereof) in the hair, whether nails are done or not done to how their skin looks!!!!

And like I've said before, women are innately programmed to NOT WANT TO BE CONFRONTED WITH A MAN'S INTIMATE HISTORY UP IN THEY FACE. Period. We hate it. I know I hate it!! I mean, it's bad enough to HEAR about an ex wife, but to have to be face to face with her on occasion after occasion can get UNNERVING!! I think Happy said it best; we are bugged because quite simply That Woman Knows His Penis and that skeeves us as 2nd or 3rd or 4th wives STRAIGHT THE HELL OUT!

I mean, his ex can be the NICEST person in the world (and I have to give my DH's ex credit, after a rocky start, she has been MORE than pleasant to me on the occasions we are all together as a "family,") but again, NO woman WANTS to be PAINFULLY reminded that There Was Someone Else That He Loved Before Us...YEEEEECCCHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

And we let it get to us because we are soft hearted creatures and we want more than anything else to feel like our husbands are "on our side," in that aspect, and when they don't understand our feelings of insecurity and invalidation, we feel as though "they aren't."

However, here is the good news, ladies!! If a man says he "has no feelings" for his ex AND MEANS IT, that means he is NO LONGER EMOTIONALLY INVESTED in this woman other than she is the mother of his children, leaving him free to emotionally invest IN US. So really, we can feel secure in that and we DON'T HAVE TO LET THE PRESENCE OF HIS EX "get to us."

Trust me, I know it's unnerving. Keep this in mind; men are NEVER going to understand OUR point of view when it comes to boundaries and the ex because they are simply programmed differently and that file is NOT on their hard drive, so to speak.

Spitfire, first I think you need to FORGIVE YOURSELF. Don't worry about his ex. I think his ex is an idiot. His kids obviously were raised by an idiot. Candice always says "chalk it up to bad breeding." And in this case, I really would.

I'll be thinking of you, becuase I imagine that in 20 years or so I'll be living the very same situation, but as the saying goes, "The Best Revenge Is Living Well!"

Thinking of you,
Fearless

Fearless, I just wanted to thank you for your last post. It was like medicine for my soul. I am new to this sight and this is my first post. I forgot my password, so I am posting anonymously. I have been involved with my husabnd for almost four years now, married for two. We do not have any children together but each have two from our previous relationships. You really hit the nail on the head. I hate to admit it, but sometimes I just really hate that simple fact that he shares children with someone else. I guess I feel like we will always be disconnected or something. Not really sure. He has 50/50 custody with his ex, so she is a very large part of my life (unfortunately). I have never really been a jealous person, but boy, let me tell you I have felt extremely jealous, confused and very left out in a lot of situations. I can't say that I think that he would go back or anything because I really don't. We really have a great relationship. I think the whole thing just makes me uncomfortable and somtimes just a little empty inside. I am not always sure if there are boundaries there either and that also bugs me. My Dh and his ex get along just fine. A little too fine for my liking, but that is just the green-eyed monster in me rearing it's ugly head. I know it is much better for everyone involved if there are no major tensions to deal with. I get along with her fine as well. I am just not sure how to feel about things. I wonder how, or if you ever can, feel like a real family when there is so much to deal with. Any way just wanted to thank you. You are awesome!

Georgie Girl - this is me

Fearless, I couldn't agree with you more..but I want to add that I why I REALLY HATE having the EX around is this...she is so NICEY, NICEY, like we are one big happy friggin' family...TRUTH TOLD..she was screwing my husband's Captain when my husband was in command as a Colonel. A double slap to a guy, cheating & with a junior officer!! And, all in his command eventually knew about it as the Captain had a big mouth. DH is/was obviously clueless, wouldn't know it if it happened right before his eyes. And this wasn't the 1st time..apparently she had a long list of boy-toys over the years. And the B**** has the audacity to show her cheatin, sl*t face and act like she is the model of perfection b/c the 2 SK that give me the most heartburn DON'T KNOW ABOUT THEIR CHEATING mother!! So THEY think that DH was/is the problem, he's not perfect (don't we all know that), but he was a standup guy and took care of his family and NEVER cheated on her & treated her respectfully prior to, during & obviously AFTER the divorce. Hell, he is still friggin' nice to her.. he is in such denial!! Even M-I-L, who has called her the S word for years, suckes up to her...obviously whatever spell she is casting on all these people has not worked on me. So, I hate the hypocrisy of the situation. I come from a family of "straight shooters"...there are no secrets, no games & what you see is what you get. This crew is unbelievable. SS #1 left his wife (good decision), moved out & filed for divorce...NEVER told any of us, we found out 6 months after the divorce was FINAL. Too freakin' weird...too many smiles with a whole lot of crap behind them....so I guess the principle of the whole thing is what really grates me. How she can show her face, knowing what she did & act like some prima dona. So, we can chalk up our anger & frustration to many things..but what it comes down to as you said is living well is the best revenge. So, in the future, I plan to have the biggest damn smile on my face everytime I see her. I may have to take XANAX but I will be happy!!!

When a Guy divorces,(Emotionally) He Loses "Those" type of Feelings for His Ex, and if He Chose To be as Amicable as possible, there is Good Reason, usually to avoid The STRESS and BS Caused By Exs, since Time Immemorial. We can Still Love Our Exs as The Mother Of Our Kid/s or even Close Freinds, without it Haveing ANY AFFECT ON OUR FEELING FOR OUR CURRENT SO... A DH/BF, etc. can have a reasonably pleasant conversation with an Ex H/BF/etc. on Neutral or Kid Related Topics, but Trust Me, if the subject gets Too Personal, ie: Your Bedroom Likes/Dislikes, etc. There Is Liable to be a Fistfight...
Guys, contrary to popular Opinion, are Diplomats, as Well as Warrior/Protectors, We prefer to avoid Drama and Stress if We can, simply to make Life Easier, if nothing else.

How often do Girls have a Hair Pulling, Nail Gouging Catfight, and when it's over, go out for a drink? Guys Do it all the time, We Fight, Settle The Issue and it's DONE, OVER, FINSISHED. Territorial Boundaries are Marked, end of Story. Ask almost any Guy, and They can tell a story about a Close Freindship as a kid, Their Own or of Someone They knew, that started with a Fistfight.

Not that We Don't Hold Grudges, or Limit The Trust that We are Willing to put in Someone, but We can adapt to changed Circumstances, and maintain Civility, even with People We Despise, for the sake of Our SOs, Kids, etc.

Steve

Kids are the Best and Worst Things We can do to Ourselves. When We have nothing else worth living for, We'll go on, for Them, but Oh How We Miss Our Freedom...LOL

So how come you "Warrior/Protectors" like to protect & fight for everyone but the women they are with & are regularly crawling into bed with? Dr. Laura says you guys are simple, fed them & sex them...so how's come you don't know which side your bread is buttered on? You take up for the EX instead of the current woman in you life...you take up for your kids when they treat your current woman like dirt....all your talk makes sense in terms of how you handle & perceive relationships, but it still doesn't explain why you aka men walk all over the women they love. Is it b/c "we" let you? Should we have a major uprising of all women & toss all of you out of the bedroom & stop feeding you? Will this get your attention? So what is your response to a guy that disrespects his wife so the EX isn't offended or hurt? And before you say it's because of the kids, BS!!! I don't buy that, my DH's kids are adults with a good relationship with their Dad. So why does he take up for her instead of me?

How come you haven't responded? You seem to have insight that we don't have...help up out here.....

My Belovede Lisa, al the time...

She allows Her connections( freinds,exs, etc.) to say and do ANY DAMNED THING, and I am supposed to just smile and take it, but when She is "Offended" by ANYTHING My "connections" do I should Go Off on them, Disown Them, etc.

Why is it that "double Standards" are OK for Girls, but GOD FORBID Us Guys DON'T React EXACTLY as They want, INSTANTLY, You Girls can "Handle it Your Way" (read ALLOW IT TO CONTINUE or say something in a way that all but outright condones it)?

Sorry if I seem Confrontational, but it hasn't been a Real Good Day, Here. I came home from Work in a pretty Good Mood, and Lisa basically Ranted about a situation, and then Had a Fit when I tried to address the Principle involved, and ask why it was OK for Her to react oppositely, to a similar situation, recently.

Steve

Kids are the Best and Worst Things We can do to Ourselves. When We have nothing else worth living for, We'll go on, for Them, but Oh How We Miss Our Freedom...LOL

Hey, sorry for the bad day, but what did that have to do with being a "Warrior/Protector"...I just want to know why guys act the way they do about their current wife & the EX...you can only speak for you buddies.

Oh, and by the way, if I sound like Lisa, so sorry, not sure what "connections" means but I was just wanting an explanation based on your very intriguing comments....

My DH sides with his ex rather than me too..he just doesn't verbalize it anymore. He just listens to my observation of her antics and that's it. I don't care anymore if he gets it or not.