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should i stay or should i go

Too old to change's picture

My wife has two children, I have two children, and we have one together. We've been together for around 14 years and have been through more things I cant list with our other ex's. Her kids are 26 & 23, and just about on their own. My two are 19 and 14. She loves my 14 year old to death, but feels the total opposite towards my 19 yr old. I've tried to play both sides of the fence for most of our 14 years together,when I comes to the 19yr old. He is a very emotional kid. His mom and I had a very messy divorce, with him caught in the middle of it,it ended with me getting custody. She hasn't been in my kids lives for the last 6 years. No calls, gifts or anything. My current wife was great to my kids even when the bm left.
At one time we had all 5 kids living with us, but as they got older, she shipped her oldest to his bd, then her daughter when she was causing problems, I say making bad decisions,but nonetheless, she had a place to send them. Now with my two and our one in the house, my oldest is at the age that she shipped her kids to their bd. Now she's trying to convince me to ship my son off somewhere. Without his bm around, this is not possible. She tells me she hates him and doesn't want him around or living with us. This upsets me in many ways. I have NEVER said anything like that about her kids, nor did I condone sending hers to their bd. She barely talks to him, and when she does its not nice. She says things to him that I've never said to hers, not that I didn't feel it, but I love my wife enough that I wouldn't go out of my way to hurt her kids. I feel she dont love me enough to give me the same treatment. I'm not perfect, i let her parent her kids and the only time i stepped in was when they disrespected her or when the fights just got mean. My wife and i agreed 14 years ago to not let our kids break us up, but with her trying to get me to throw my oldest out into the street, she leaving me very little choice. I will not give up on my kids is my motto, i tell that to our youngest son we have together. I'm torn between them, yeah hes 19, but a very immature 19. He still needs a roof over his head. She's now telling me to go with him which is something i dont want to do, but i will to end this bs. I need some advise, hopefully from a man but ill take a woman's opinion also. I'm 45 and don't really feel like starting over again.

No saint's picture

So that we are able to "advise", can you please tell us how your son behaves in the house and towards you and SM?

Too old to change's picture

I divorced my ex before 14 yr old was actually born, but my wife is the only mother she really knows. I said we've been almost 14 years. My ex was a drug addict and I pretty much took custody of her in hospital as she was going through withdrawls...

Too old to change's picture

She tells me that hes just there. He just finished 1st year of college on a free ride scholarship, he thinks tho he may have lost it for next year. So now he's working tryin to afford next year, I'm sure I enable him to be immature. I'm working on that everyday to change that, believe me. I think he behaves like most normal 19 yr olds, without the maturity of one. I dont let any kid in our household disrespect me or my wife. He grew past the disrespectful years, I dont think that's the problem. He helps around house whenever asked, she complains that she has to ask tho. He pretty much sits on his laptop til he goes to work. I just wish she treated him the same way I still treat hers, bit I dont get that one in return. She says ugly, mean things to him most of the time, I'd prefer she didn't even talk to him, but that upsets the household. I think its her problem, she keeps sayin, you let him do more things than I let mine do. Which may be true, but the kid did everything I told him I high school, he graduated valedictorian with a 4.3, he waited til college to be stupid, I my opinion, but what's done is done, hes tryin to fix it himself, believe me I not helping him. I told him to fix it and all I do is give him a roof over his head.

not2sureimsaneanymore's picture

I need a few details that you're kind of vague about:
1. What do you mean by "He waited until college to be stupid?" Can you give an example?
2. What do you mean by "immature?" Can you give an example?
3. What do you mean by "ugly, mean things." Can you give an example?

Maybe get your wife to come on this blog and share her side? Have you asked her why she feels the way she does? The fact that she loves your 14 year old means she's not treating ALL of yours poorly, that she's still treating the other one the way you treat hers. So something about the 19 year old must have set her off. More likely, something you are either doing or NOT doing with the 19 year old is setting her off.

twoviewpoints's picture

It simply could be she view one as not hers aka skid and the 14yr as her own (she all but raised the baby from birth). It's easier to bond with a innocent helpless needy infant who depends on an adult (any adult) for sole care than to try and bond with a 5yr old. The five year old had a drug addict for a mother. Who knows what the five yr olds life was like pre-SM.

I don't have a clue what if anything the 19yr does (if anything) to get the said treatment from SM, but considering she booted her own right out the door as soon as they hit age? It really could be just for still existing in the home. It really doesn't sound as if she has much use for anybody over 18. It may be she just believes once of age, out you go. She didn't hesitate booting her own two of age children. CS ended, out the went.

The 19yr old may really be a pain. Given that she doesn't appear to show preferential treatment to ANY kid over 18, I'm not sure trying to figure out if this kid blinks wrong or rolls his eyes or has to be told to take out the trash is going to be real useful to the OP.

No saint's picture

This!

not2sureimsaneanymore's picture

I was also hesitant about that, but I have a friend whose teenage kids decided (with prompting from their dad who promised them freedoms their mom weren't giving them) that they were going to make their mom's life miserable so she'll send them to their dad's. So I don't know if that's the case here.

You could be right (my husband's grandparents were the same way--7 children and the moment any aged out, they were out of the house, but it was a small 3 bedroom house so 7 adults would have been a bit much) but either way, I still would like answers to those questions.

sandye21's picture

Have you asked your wife what SS does to want him out? She should not have to keep asking him to do things around the house. Your son should be responsible for certain duties which are just part of living in the home, and should do these without being asked. Children develop emotionally. Some have a harder time making the transition to adulthood. When they get a job and get on with their lives, it doesn't make any difference if they are 'immature' or not, they have to be 'responsible' whether they like it or not.

You wrote that your son is a 'typical' 19 year old. That's pretty subjective. It sounds more like an excuse to enable him.

Overit1960's picture

There are many other options for this 19 year old kid. Join the service. Help him pay for an apartment or house share situation. Let him move in with HIS OWN mother. Joining the service is a great way to get your immature kid to grow up.

I don't care if he was Valedictorian in HS or not... He must be doing somthing here to piss off your wife. I doubt he is a sweet little angel child - most 19 years I have met are not. And if you coddle this "immature" 19 year old he is NOT going to grow up! It's called enabling... Trying to fix himself? What does that mean? Sounds like he needs to toughen up.

Not giving up on your kids is all well and good, but it sounds to me like self sacrifice on your part.

Overit1960's picture

EXCUSE ME, sueu2 but joining the military is not throwing your kid away. It's giving him an opportunity to learn and to succeed in life without daddy holding his hand along every inch of the way. The opportunity to learn and grow to be a man and to serve his country.

People with your attitude make me :sick: and if EVERYONE had that attitude, we would not be celebrating Memorial Day.

Too old to change's picture

What should scare us all is how this government treat our military when they get out. The military isnt the same when I was growing up.

hatesteplife's picture

Is your son going to go to college next year? You say that he had one year on a free ride, but is now being stupid and may not have that ride next year?
Your son is an adult....if he's going to school and working toward his future, I think your wife is out of line.
However, if he's like my skids and pretty much blew off school and decided it's easier to suck of mom and dad (my skids still live with their mother at 25 and 26 and one of them has her own kid. All living off alimony from my DH in a house he bought), then I think she might be onto something in trying to get him moving forward in life. However, she shouldn't be saying "ugly" thing to him, depending on what that means. If it's her cutting him down for no reason, that's one thing. If it's her speaking the truth, that's another. Methinks you two need some marriage counseling before you decide to stay or go.

ChiefGrownup's picture

What Evil3 and SnoopyStep said. Others gave excellent insights, too, of course.

I'll just ask why is he so immature? Dad, have you really asked yourself that? My 13 ss is autistic. The autism experts teach us to back off and let him learn from experience and from peers. It's hard to do, but the results are so worth it. If autistic kids can learn like this, how much more effective will it be for other kids?

I suspect, like Evil says, you've not been stepping back. "Immaturity" usually has to have a partner, the protector.

You're also seeing this as a my kid lives here or the highway sort of situation instead of a partnership experience with your wife. She may be thinking "I didn't make you live with my adult kids, why are you making me live with yours?" This is a moment for you to figure out how to partner, not for you to see yourself as the pledged White Knight of an ADULT young man.

You son is an adult. If he doesn't like the way he's being treated he can walk right out the door and change his life any moment. He's not being chained in a basement--he seems to feel he's being treated well enough to stay there.

Too old to change's picture

I really appreciate all the advise, some of you are drawing the wrong opinion about some things. To clarify a little, his college ended two weeks ago, he applied to alot of jobs and it took a week to get the one hes got now. Hes trying to save money up to afford another year. Hes not being totally lazy, the job hes got isnt all the many hours and he still looking for another job. I dont think that constitutes kicking him out when I'm trying to get him in the right direction for his future. My wife and I always agreed that at 18 they need to chip in on things, hence the reason hers left to go to their bf for a free ride. I would boot him if i thought it would help, but at this stage hes realizing his mistakes and is trying to fix them without me. I'm just giving him a roof. Hes never been arrested or knocked a girl up, or doing drugs. Its like my wife resents the fact hers didjt want to stay with rules and he's willing to. I'm not giving him the boot just because she says I should. If I thought it would help I would. I dont have the convienence of sending him to his bm like she did, which is hard for me to do anyway. If I did, it would have been done.

ChiefGrownup's picture

First, congratulations on rearing a valedictorian. I really meant to say that in my earlier post. That is quite exciting.

Second, oh, boy, that is a real hot button around here: "it's not like he's getting arrested, etc." Many of us have experienced that as the go-to line. "Yeah, my kid is unbearable but he could be so much worse." Aaaaargghhhhhhh!!!!!

Your son must have had a pretty bad year to have lost his scholarship. That is definitely something to contemplate.

If you really want your wife's cooperation, get your kid on a definite plan for launching with weekly goals and deadlines. Show this plan to your wife. That very well may help.

But it almost sounds like you are looking for an excuse to leave your wife. So go ahead and leave her. Live with the young scholar and your younger child and do visitation with your mutual child. I may be jumping too far too fast but you haven't given much room to conclude you are looking for any solution other than us telling you your wife is a horrible/unreasonable person and she should give in. Well, if she is horrible, go. Absolutely.

hatesteplife's picture

ChiefGrownup brings up a good point. Are you looking for an excuse to leave your wife?

I would think that if your son is not going to be going to school, I can see your wife wanting a freeloading adult out. However, if you DO want to work things out and your son DOES want to go to school, maybe you can come to an agreement that your son is back in school full time by the end of the year or he's out.

I'm thinking there is part of the story you aren't telling us....like what your son's mistakes are.....

Too old to change's picture

And I'm not tryin to paint my wife as an uncaring b***h. But it seems like she is about this. My wife is my best friend, we communicate, we usually support each others decisions. We both had alot of baggage when we started this family, me more than her. She took on alot getting pretty much a newborn that was going through withdrawls for the first two months. Shes a saint on my eyes for how she was with my daughter. I honestly couldn't have done it without her. My daughter doesn't know her bm. My son does. Is there resentment cuz he's my first born? Yeah, I treated him differently. For 5 years he was my only kid, so he was by buddy til the divorce happened and all hell broke loose. Between police after police calls and his bm going to jail a few times did mess him up between 6 and 7. I've always felt guilty for what his bm became. So yeah, I'm sure I've babied him pretty much through high school, which explains the immaturity, but he was doing the right things in life. One thing that's been enforced in our house is respect. The more she says the things she says, the more he showing the disrespect. I've taught my kids respect those that show respect and he feels she isn't respecting him right now either. I see his point as well as I see her points. I've tried getting them in the same room together and it makes it worse. I'm torn and ready to boot both out of my life. I told them both today, if you love me, them get along. I dont know if that was the right thing to say, but it was the first thing that came to mind.

ChiefGrownup's picture

I'm sorry, Mr. Too Old, but you have now just described several major mistakes. It's late where I am so I'll just tackle one. It is the biggest one in my opinion.

You telling your wife and son to "get along" for your sake is absolutely hideous. Your wife is your wife. She's the one you said vows to. Including a vow to "never let the kids break you up." You are blatantly and absolutely without question abandoning that vow or revealing you never meant it. Yet this is a woman you consider a "saint" for what she did for your very imperiled infant daughter. You admit you brought more drama into the marriage than she did. Yet now you cannot find it in your heart to return any of these favors.

There's a recent post in here by Island girl, I think, in a thread called "my gf doesn't like my kids" (by a guy named darryl). Look for that post. She describes something told to her and her dh in marriage counseling about a husband and wife being at the center of the "onion." All others have to be in progressively outer layers. If the 2 in the center aren't solid, the whole onion falls apart.

You are not only not supporting the concept that your first loyalty is to your wife, there is no "throw my wife under the bus" card in a good marriage. You are also failing to repay a massive, years long, self-sacrificing gift your wife made to you by parenting your troubled daughter successfully.

Really, if I were your wife I would be so disgusted by this I would be the one contemplating divorce. I try not to be so harsh with new posters but I do think you really, really, really need a wakeup call.

Others will come along and talk about parenting from guilt and many of the other things that you revealed there. I do encourage you to listen to what the STalkers have to say and really do some honest soul searching. Either that or free your wife up from having to do any more favors for you and start paying her back in cash what you find unable to pay her back in kind.

Too old to change's picture

Believe me, I know I screwed up parenting. I dont need to be told that. I'm also trying to fix myself in all this. I have enough guilt that my parenting failed, I dont really need to be told that. I'm just trying to keep my family together. I dont want to lose anyone in my life. I get so frustrated cause I cant make them get along. My wife is the one resisting.

hatesteplife's picture

Why would your son resist? He has it on easy street now...he knows he's got you where he wants you because of your guilt and favoritism toward him and he doesn't have to do anything but some token stuff to get a free ride.

ChiefGrownup's picture

Have to add, you admit you "screwed up parenting" but now you demand your wife accept your judgment over hers in how to handle this? Magnificent failure of logic. Could not be more magnificent. Almost a work of art.

hatesteplife's picture

I think you guys need to go to counseling to sort things out.

I don't think most people get married expecting that adult children would be more important than a spouse in a marriage. I think this guilt thing you're feeling toward your son is not doing any of you any favors. Maybe you need to look at your son through the same glasses you'd look at anyone else's kid through. What would you think then?

Too old to change's picture

He isn't getting a free ride,totally, hes paying for what he uses, I provide a roof. I know my guilt doesn't help. Since he started college, I cut the cord totally. I provide a roof and a sofa sleeper. We made him ever by his own sheets. I'm using this as counceling, I cant afford a real one right now. I would have been the same way if the shoes were on the other feet. My wife and always tried to get our kids grown enough to leave so we don't get them back in 2-10 years from now. I feel if we did that now, he would be back, and even I wont want that. I retire in 6 years. I plan on them all being out by then. Lol

Cocoa's picture

you previously said that your wife kicked her kids out to mooch off their dad, but now I think we have the truth. she's worked very hard to get her kids launched, you haven't and now expect her to accept it. my dh expected the exact same thing. guess who suffers from his crappy parenting? it sure as heck ain't gonna be me. his kid will suffer. you say you're working on getting him ready to launch. you're gonna have to work faster so that your wife will see RESULTS.

Too old to change's picture

I'd like my son to instantly be set on right track before I boot him, and I'd like my wife to help me make this happen so we don't get him back in years to come. I retire in 6 years, and all through my wife and I plan on living in a Winnebago together see all there is to see in this country then die. Hows that for a plan?

Too old to change's picture

I'm sorry about your father, I agree on the in decisiveness TOTALLY. I gave him a month after school ended, he got himself a job so far, I'm trying to get him to afford college this August so he doesn't skip a year, then he probably would give up on it. And to top it off, hes not even sure what to study for yet. This is where I think its the immaturity comes into play. He cant decide anything himself, its like he's waiting for me to tell him what to study for.

Too old to change's picture

I dont demand my wife to do anything. If your just on here to be mean, please leave. Reread everything I wrote, never once did I demand anything, we don't have that type of relationship. We do for each other cuz we want to, not cuz we have to. You sound very bitter in your insensitive comments and i really don't need comments from a bitter person. I'm sure your marriage with step kids is perfect so why even be on here.

Too old to change's picture

No I wasn't, sorry...grownup guy at the top. I didnt click the reply where he wrote it

Too old to change's picture

I liked what you said, I'm just trying to forget the past and work on future. I want my future to grow old with my wife on that Winnebago of love, but my kid is still my kid. I dont want anyone to fail in life, and 3 in a Winnebago is too many. Just trying to get him in right direction.

Too old to change's picture

I've told him to consider military which scares me with the way the world is. It would grow him up but then you see how this government neglects the men that serve us, so I don't even like that idea, either does he.

Cocoa's picture

see, it kills me when parents don't think long-term consequences when they raise their kids. they fail to see that they aren't raising children, they are raising future adults. if the child doesn't have a plan and get their butts in gear, the only thing left to them may be the military, etc... and personally, I would be proud as punch if my kid joined. risky? yes. but there is NO profession MORE HONORABLE. not to mention, this immature 19 year old will be made into a man, doing the job his parents should have done. yes, it's dangerous today. it's ALWAYS been dangerous. but this same clinginess you've had with him his entire life is what has dis-abled this boy. let him go, force him to be a man.

sandye21's picture

As some of the other posters here have suggested, go to marriage counseling with a therapist who specializes in blended families.

The more I read your posts, the more it sounds like we are getting only one side of this story. I have been in the position of being told to get along for DH's sake and that he didn't want to be in the middle. So I took him out of the middle and placed boundaries for myself on what I would accept from both SD and DH. I think this is where your DW is, and you are, as another poster mentioned, trying to convince us to say as a group she's in the wrong.

If you want immediate support from DW sit down with both your son and wife and inform your son that he is to respect your wife in her home - period, he has one week to decide his direction in life, and until that time he will do the list of jobs your wife gives him without complaint - or he will have to find other accommodations. I'm sure he has friends who will give him a place to sleep.

If my DH told me he wanted me to put up with SD's B.S. on a daily basis for 6 years I would tell him that he and his son could go live in a camper.

AVR1962's picture

Your situation is much like my own. My husband had full custody of his two sons. Bio mom left when the boys were 2 & 4....went off to start her new life and didn't make contact. When I met husband he was divorce 3 years and the boys had visited their mother once. The oldest boy had a strong bond with his mother and missed her terribly so for me to be with his dad instead of his mother was very hard for him and I knew that and made concessions for that but nothing was enough. I tried, I really did but the boys had a hard time accepting me. Their dad was gone alot, mom was not in the picture enough to consider her an active parent which left me with a great deal of responsibility on my hands. I had to choice to let things go or address them and when AI addressed issues it seemed to cause the boys more problems with me but I really had no choice.

Don't divorce, that my advise. Instead, if you can try to help the children with their issues with your divorce and if that means sitting down with your ex and the kids, do so. My ex and I did sit with our children and talked about the divorce. More than likely that is what they are trying to deal with and the issues are not about your wife.

Like you, my husband and I had a child as well and I have often thought of leaving husband to just leave the issues behind with his sons and family who support his sons but how fair is this to our daughter?? We are a family too.

Your wife does not have to have anything to do with your children from your first marriage. What matters is what you and your ex do with those relationships.

Too old to change's picture

I do not want to divorce her. She's the love of my life. I just don't like the phrase, "I want him out, and if you dont like it, than go too." That sounds like an ultimatum to me and I don't do ultimatums. I'm not booting him just cuz she says so. She doesn't give legit reasons for saying that other than I just don't want him here. I need more than that. We tried talkin, bit it turns into yelling and nothing but hurt comes out. Tried getting both in same room and she leaves, I dont know if its menopause like she says, she goes from night to day. I let her vent until it get mean and hurtful. I offered to separate for a few months and she starts balling I dont love her, which in fact I do. I love her so much that I don't wanna see her miserable. I would leave if she realm meant it but she says she don't when I offer it. I'm not trying to get people to just blame her. I take 100% responsibility for where this is now. I owned up to that. I think there's alot of resentment on her part, add in a little menopause a confuse 19yr old who just might have made the biggest mistake in his life and is tryin to fix it, but just not fast enough for her.

Too old to change's picture

I take blame cuz I brought us all together. You women and that damn menopause. I'd like to blame that. Today, she was very polite,apologetic, and like i said, I brought up temporary separation and she lost it. She cried the rest of night. I tried to explain my reasons which are truly genuine and she wouldn't listen.
I think military would be perfect for him. I have over 10 relatives in military, they say the worse thing about it is coming home.

AVR1962's picture

Before you jump to menopause.....I know you said she said this is what she is dealing with and it could very well be but I would not jump to the conclusion that all of your wive's emotional distance from your son has to do with menopause. If your wive's emotions are so erratic due to fluctuating hormones she needs to go to a doctor, there is actually help for this. What I am hearing is that your wife has talked to you, that is why she is not talking any more, she wasn't heard. If she feels unheard, misunderstood or that you will do nothing the resolve issues then she will close up and when she closes up she suppresses that hurts and those hurts erupt in volcanic ways. I have been there.

This might not be your situation but let me give you some examples. A problem that husband and I had was that he wanted to let the boys do whatever they wanted. The one boy was coming home with things that did not belong to him which I mentioned to husband and it continued. I felt his son should be asked where these items were coming from and if he was taking these items. Husband did not want to accuse his son of stealing. I told him it was accusing, it was asking. He didn't want to do it. Finally, I asked and his son admitted. We had many situations just like this, husband just wanted to let it go, didn't want to address issues with his sons. The other boy was dating a girl under age, he was legal adult age. I was concerned for the girl and I knew from the cards SS left laying around that they were sexually involved. I felt husband should talk to his son about birth control but he did not want to. So I spoke with the girl's mom who did not know that her daughter was having sex. These situations caused big issues. I could not understand why husband would not address them. Years of situations like this went by. The younger boy realized he did not have to show me respect, his father was allowing it which I told husband but it was ignored. The final blow came when SS blew up at me, throwing papers in my face and cursing me out (with his dad standing right there). I asked husband why he allowed it and he said he felt his son needed to vent. I then contacted an attorney. I felt like I had PTSD. I am sure my husband didn't fully understand what I went thru, he admits he saw me as being too critical of the boys and he just wanted them to be able to boys. They were boys at my expense.

If having your son in the house is causing issues, it is time for your son to leave home. My husband did 27 years in the Air Force. He and I have been married 23 years and I have traveled and done the whole military life with him, raised my kids as military brats, lived over seas more years than we have been stateside. It was a wonderful choice for us. We got to see the world and experience so many new and great experiences. My husband has a career that he has done well in. I think the military could be good for your son.

Too old to change's picture

She takes something for menopause, but its something you take for six months and stop for six months. Of course, this is the period when she's not taking it. And I'm not blaming it, I said id like to blame it. She bottles things up and explodes, then gets sad. I actually took a video of one of her explosions and showed her the next day, and she couldn't believe what she saw. I try to be sympathetic, but like i said before, I step in when it starts getting mean and hurtful. We take our vows serious, we watch our wedding every anniversary just to remind us of them. Thanks for sharing your story.

AVR1962's picture

My suggestion is counseling for you as a couple. She might not completely understand her own emotions.

I have never heard for anything you take for 6 months and then 6 months off for menopause. I am going thru perimenopause now and understand the fluctuating hormones. I use progesterone cream to help ease the symptoms and I find it works great!

sandye21's picture

Cut with the menopause B.S.! It sounds like you are really searching for something - anything - to say it's all her. Blaming it on menopause is insulting not only to your wife but to every other SM on this site who has dealt with irresponsible, uncooperative Skids. The problem is that your son is not respecting her or you. If he did, and he wanted to stay in her house he would be trying to cooperate with her by helping around the house and demonstrating that he is focusing on his future.

"I love her so much that I don't wanna see her miserable." HER???!!! Is this her home you and your son are living in? If you keep throwing her under the bus YOU might wind up being the one who is totally miserable trying to lunch your son by yourself.

Too old to change's picture

Sandy, read all my posts before you sit and judge me. You might have to change the page once or twice. I'm not blaming it as you say, I said id like to blame it after I already took 100% responsability. Dont post ignorantly again on my post.
She takes ambrean (sp?). Look I up on internet, she says when she takes it it great. Its all natural...research it.
This has been very helpful posting about this, things seemed better today, we had our own private dinner and no yelling. I'd like to thank you guys for SOME of your opinions.

sandye21's picture

"Dont post ignorantly again on my post." First of all you do not own this site. Second, do not judge me as ignorant when I am trying to point out to you that it is an insult to any woman to blame your problems on her menopause. From the manner in which you write it appears there may be cultural differences between you and your wife as far as what the role of a wife is.

I am truly glad you are putting forth the effort to resolve issues with your wife. Perhaps counseling would help.