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New to site....could use some good advice

Scott357's picture

I'm stuck in the middle of a complicated situation and am trying to figure out the best path forward. This forum seems filled with folks that have been through and seen it all, so perhaps someone may be able to provide some sound advice.

I've been seeing a lovely woman for about three years and we have been living together for much of that time in her house. I still maintain my own residence, although it has, over time, become a glorified storage unit. The only problem we have is her son (SS21). He lives in the basement of her home and is most unpleasant to deal with. For starters, he does not keep his room clean...in fact, the condition is deplorable - cans, bottle, dirty dishes, etc. everywhere (including in his bed), dirty laundry etc. When told by his mother to clean up the mess, the response is always "later" or "I'll get to it, mom" - never happens. The kid works on cars and leaves a mess in the driveway - tools, empty oil jugs, rags, etc. and there are car parts, tools, trash, etc. all over the front porch. As much as it bothers me, I try to stay out of it as it isn't my house. Here's where the problem arises.....

Her parents are building a new house and have offered to sell us their current house at an extremely reduced rate. It's a very nice, large home that would finally be something that would be "ours" and not "mine" or "hers". My objection has always been that I would never purchase this home if her son (and, more importantly, his mess) would also be moving. I was reassured that he would be soon moving to his own place and that all was good. Fast forward to the present when moving day is imminent and, of course, SS21 up and quits his job, which paid him very well and provided benefits. Now his mother and grandparents just don't see how we could possibly kick him out. He has known this was happening for 8-9 months and has not been the slightest bit interested in moving out. As he told his grandmother, I don't want to move out because then I'll have to spend all my money on bills when I want to spend money on my hobby (his cars). To his mother's credit, she is trying to get him motivated to find a new job so that he can still move out on his own, but he's having none of it. He's only interested in $8-9/hour jobs like landscaping or carpentry (where he can work with his friends and have zero responsibility). That's not going to cut it for living on his own.

It's really easy for me to see this in black and white - the family has enabled this kid for years and he's not going to grow up overnight. He really could use some "tough love" so he wakes up about the need to have responsibility and separate wants from needs. Of course, when I point this out I am told that "I just understand because I don't have kids". While that may true, no one has yet attempted to explain it to me.

So, help me out folks....am I being the bad guy here? Is there any way to salvage this situation? I'd really like to preserve the relationship with the GF, but at this point I'm starting to see no way out. I certainly have seen enough from SS21 to know that he's not suddenly getting it together any time soon.

Thanks in advance for any and all advice!

sandye21's picture

"So, help me out folks....am I being the bad guy here?" No, you are NOT the bad guy. SS is not in college or disabled. He is an adult who needs to get on with his life. He can get another $9 job and find a roommate to share the expenses. When you are told, "I just (don't) understand because I don't have kids", inform whomever is saying this to you that he is no longer a "kid" and you prefer to deal with him as you would any other adult. It may not work out for you but I can tell you from experience, if you allow SS to remain in your home it will only get worse.

Calmly set boundaries before purchasing the house and see what GF's reaction is. Then is you see no way out, GET out and cut your losses.

Disneyfan's picture

Keep your place and tell GF purchase her parents' home on her own. There's no way the grandparents are going to be OK with giving you a huge discount on a home while their grandson gets the boot.

Really, why would they want to give their daughter AND her boyfriend a killer deal on a house, then turn around and watch the 21 year old pay market rate for an apartment?

secondplace's picture

So you think they are only giving her a break on the price because of the 21 year old living there? I kinda doubt it. Most parents expect that their kids/grandkids are going to grow up and leave the nest.

And most kids do pay market rate for apartments, even if Mommy and Daddy get a killer deal on a house.

Not sure where your logic is coming from.

Disneyfan's picture

My response was based on the family dynamic. They didn't just stumble on a great deal.

My parents, aunts and uncles will help their kids as much as they can. In turn, they expect them to help their grandkids. My parents would be livid if they offered me a great deal and I used it to benefit a boyfriend but tossed my son out.

Now, I agree with the OP 100% about the kid working.

Scott357's picture

You are correct and this has been a major consideration. The grandparents understand the kid's problem and have tried to help. They also understand my reluctance to finance buying a home and allowing someone else's adult kid to mess it up. Still, they would never allow a family member to be out in the cold. In the end, it looks like we're going to pass up the chance to buy the home until the adult son can get his act together. It's unfortunate and is bound to cause bitterness somewhere, but it's better than moving forward and having issues once mortgage papers have been signed. After all, it's just a house....there's plenty more out there.

Jsmom's picture

This mom is enabling the kid. Sad, but odds are good it will not change. I would back out of the house.

Scott357's picture

Thanks to everyone for the replies. This has all been along the lines of what I'd been thinking, but thought I'd solicit advice to see if there was anything I might be missing. Sadly, it appears I've been thinking correctly all along.

I especially appreciate what was said about the phrase "you don't understand because you don't have kids". That has constantly infuriated me because we are no longer dealing with a child. I think she still sees him as a child and that is a large part of the problem.

still learning's picture

I HAVE kids and there is no way any I would allow that! I have a situation where the entire family enables DH's 30 year old son. This has been going on a long time and I don't see any of them changing any time soon. Keep your house!

Dunwiththem's picture

OK, maybe I seem to be coming in soft here – and I’m by no means a stranger to step-hell, but I think there are a lot of lines to read between here.
OP makes no mention of any resentment towards him being with his mother or of leeching for money.
Has anyone considered the boy may have a problem? Asperger’s maybe, or something similar?
From the very little we know, he is obsessed with cars. Obsessions feature greatly with this condition. Not all kids ‘of age’ can just launch.
Maybe I am biased because I have a 37 year old Asperger’s son still living with me whom my (late) husband despised, even though he (my son) accepted my H as my new partner.
My H never accepted my son’s inadequacies or inabilities to lead a normal life and, of course, did not have the parental love to enable this.
The grand-parents are naturally concerned about the fate of their grand-son (whom they love as much as a son), and bound to feel resentment if, after helping their daughter and new-found love, grand-son is to be forced from the home.
Of course, he could just be an enabled free-loading bum, in which case the responses are completely justified, but maybe OP just wants a blissful life with GF and not have to deal with baggage.
It’s a difficult dilemma. If GF had joined the forum we might well be hearing another story. That’s not to devalue anything OP says and feels. There is never an easy answer in step-land.

Scott357's picture

No, I can certainly appreciate your concerns. In SS21's case, there may actually be some underlying issues contributing to his behavior, however, the bottom line is that he has been coddled and allowed to get away with too much for far too long. His mother and I both suspect that he has ADD and depression issues. She has arranged doctor's appointments for him, but he tells the doctors that he doesn't have any problems and doesn't understand why he's there. It's certainly not helpful that both his father and paternal grandfather both tell him that anti-depressants are only for weak willed people and that he wouldn't be a "real man" if he took them. His mother has recently taken a different approach by scheduling a doctor's appointment for him - one in which she will be accompanying him.

So, yes, there may be some contributing factors here, but the bottom line is that he's been allowed to do whatever he feels like doing with no repurcussions for a long time. The GF realizes that she needs to toughen up on the house rules, but unfortunately I don't think she's going to suddenly morph into a drill sergeant overnight.

We had a long discussion yesterday with the GF's parents and they realize this is a major stumbling block. They can't condone leaving their grandson without a place to live, but also undertsand that he can't be allowed to live in the new house and be as messy and destructive as he is now. In the end, we all decided that it seems that it just wasn't meant to be. They're now planning to list and sell their home while the rest of us will try to figure out what to do next. I suspect that I will utimately move back to my own home as I can already detect some residual bitterness from the GF over how this was resolved. She commented how I "backed out at the last minute", when, in reality, I've told her from the beginning that her son's mess was a dealbreaker for me (especially since I'd be the one financing this home purchase). She also seemed annoyed when I also rejected an offer from her father to personally guarantee that the 21-year old would keep things tidy once living there. I did that because I don't think he really should have to be doing that for an adult and I really don't think it would continue for the long haul.

The whole situation is kind of a mess, but really demonstrates the end result of enabling kids and creating a sense of entitlement. I can't really come down too harshly on the GF as she has raised him by herself without much assistance from the bio-dad. The boy's father only seems to pop up to tell his son negative things about his mother and to derail any efforts she attempts to get him back on track. As a result, I think she feels guilty that he never had much of a father and has compensated by doing everything for the kid to the point where, as an adult, he feels mom should cater to his every whim.

Dunwiththem's picture

Scott, I fear the son may always be a bone of contention to you and your GF setting up home together because the pattern has been set for so long.
If you love this lady, why not just keep your own places? In the meantime maybe GF can become stronger with her son over time with a view to his becoming more independent and hopefully moving out altogether. If she suddenly changes everything for him while you're all living in the same house, he will blame you and the cycle of resentment begins. No-one is happy.
Just a thought. You can have a great relationship whilst living apart!

Scott357's picture

It appears that this is where we are headed for all the reasons you've listed. Just have the GF convinced that not living there any more doesn't mean that I care any less. It's really for the best to allow her to work on getting her son out of these patterns without resentment all around. Selfishly, it helps preserve my own mental health by not having to live in the midst of his mess.

sandye21's picture

Wait! YOU would be the one financing the house? If you pay for the house you should have a say in who lives there. Now I understand why your GF is mad. She's blaming you for the deal falling through. Too bad she doesn't listen to what you are trying to tell her.

We raise our children according to what we think is best but sometimes we find too late that it wasn't the best way. Living separately will take you out of the equation so GF will be living alone with SS. This might cause her to see things that she WANTED to be blind to. Good luck, it might work out after all.

Scott357's picture

Update....Looks like the GF's move is going to take place after all, although it won't be with me along for the ride. In the past three weeks, her son has not even attempted to look for a job. He hasn't cleaned up any of his messes and seems to be content with the status quo. Of course, why wouldn't he be? He can come and go as he pleases, make messes, not do anything around the house, sleep til late afternoon and run the roads all night with no consequences. I actually ran into him coming home one morning at 6:00 AM as I was headed out to work! My GF said that there was just no way to move and leave him without a place to stay. I told her that if that was the case, then I would not even consider buying that house. After lots of bickering and bargaining, she informed me that her parents were letting her move in anyway and they would work out some sort of payment arrangement later on after she had sold her house. More power to them. I told her to have fun putting up with his nonsense until he's 40 or 50 years old because I really don't see any end in sight. I understand the love that a mother and grandparents have for a grown child, but I just can't fathom how they can possibly be so blind to their enabling ways and the long-term damage they're doing to this kid. He's almost 22 years old and is completely at a loss of how to do much of anything for himself. How they expect him to ever live on his own is beyond me. At any rate, I've moved all my things back to my own house and expect that I will not be too far behind them. As to whether the relation between GF and I can survive beyond this....who knows? While I love her, I am rapidly losing respect for her. Thanks for all of the earlier advice and for allowing a frustrated guy a place to vent.......

Merry's picture

Keeping a 22-year-old manchild dependent on her is more important than keeping a relationship with you. Your GF might be wonderful in lots of other ways, but she is not able to commit to an adult relationship. That manchild will live with her forever. And I agree that you dodged a bullet.

ChiefGrownup's picture

Scott357, yes, you dodged a bullet. Don't look back. For perspective, my stepson is 13 and has a good dose of autism. It's evident as soon as you meet him, there's no guessing, he's got it. My dh has always said that he expects the boy to live independently or in some kind of assisted/group situation as an adult and we are working toward that.

DH bought him a wallet when he was about 11 and we've been teaching him to use it, earning pocket money, requiring him to pay for certain treats out of his money. We take him to stores, give him a shopping list, make him find every item and do the transaction. We are preparing him to be independent. DH has told me he doesn't want the boy living with us at 21, not because we don't love him or like him (we certainly do) but because IT'S WHAT'S BEST FOR THE BOY.

I would like to know what your gf and her parents think is going to happen when they are all gone and this son/grandson still has 40 years to live? Who will coddle him then? We think about that all the time.

Your gf and her parents have a sick need to keep this boy around as the family pet. BS on how great she did "on her own." She was never on her own, either. Obviously grandparents have been hovering around taking care of her the way she takes care of the boy.

My advice is to call it a day on this whole relationship. GF is in a generational family script that you cannot break single handedly. I'm sure she has good qualities and lovable qualities. But not all relationships can go the distance. This one can't because gf needs 1. her parents 2. her pet (son) 3. a guy (that may or may not be you). Until she feels a strong reason to re-examine her life and change herself, that priority list will never change. She responded to your feelings on the house deal by A) blaming you Dirol sidestepping you and working out a side deal with her parents. Nothing could be more clear where you stand and how she will continue to live her life. She is not a real partner. Save yourself. You cannot save her, she likes life like this.

Overit1960's picture

Scott 457,
Sorry you are enduring that drama. I have a friend who is in a similiar situation... has been there off and on for 6 or 7 years now. He's miserable. I can see where this is heading...

Your GF and her man-baby are a package deal, and she is not going to cut the ties. Word to the wise: cut your losses now and move on now before investing more time and emotion to this. I think your GF likes having her 'baby' dependent on her for his every need. She feels needed. Hate to say, but it trumps how she feels about you and your relationship moving forward. I'm sorry. Sad

sad-stepmom's picture

Scott357,your situation has several parallels to mine, except I've been in this situation for more than 15 years, and the stepson who lives with us is 25. I have raised SS25 and his younger brother since they were very young. The younger one moved out and doesn't speak to me. SS25 still lives with us and there is no sign whatsoever that he will ever move out, even though he has a well-paying job as a mechanic (and with that comes the multiple cars, as in your situation). I believe he is (and will always be) manipulating my weak husband into feeling sorry for him so he never has to move out. He talks very frequently about not wanting to move out and pay bills "for nothing" when he can just live with us. My husband would sooner allow our relationship and the household to fall apart than grow a backbone and make clear to his son that he needs to start a life of his own. (Now SS is starting to suggest we put his name on our mortgage so he can "help us out.") If you're picturing that situation, you might also be picturing that I'm a total sucker for staying. That's what I see too. Hopefully you will not end up in the same situation. I see lots of significant others held hostage to their partners' inability to be assertive with their children, enabling maladaptive behaviours and increasingly neglecting the needs of their life partners. They endlessly coddle their adult children and then allow their partners to wallow in the resulting crap until they can bear it no more.

You sound like a level-headed person who is genuinely interested in sorting things out with your partner. If you want to continue working on it, maybe you can ask your girlfriend for some agreement in writing (for example, that within 2 years you two are the only inhabitants of the home), especially if you're going to be investing substantially in the new home. I'm not sure if that will make a difference, but at least you'd have something to point to, in case (as in my case) your partner starts to go into denial about what's really going on.

sad-stepmom's picture

Scott 357, I meant to say too that maybe you both need to take good honest look at your values and priorities--do you have the same ideas in mind? Maybe for now (if it's just a temporary solution) it might be tolerable for your SS21 to live with you, as long as your girlfriend makes clear that she shares your values regarding parenting adult children and how self-sufficiency can reasonably be fostered. I have found that when it comes down to it, my problems with my husband can be reduced down to our different and incompatible values--what he says to me and what he actually shows to be his priorities are very different things. I've been stupidly strung along by his bafflegab tough-parent talk when in reality he is putty in his sons' hands. I think so many other people on this site have exactly the same hopeless problem. (I don't think this is the case 100% of the time, but by the time someone makes it to a site like this one, usually it means there's a terrible impasse between the step-parent and the partner when it comes to priorities, and it often seems to be the step-parent who has to make concessions.)