Step Talk

Don't worry, this can be fixed. First of all, now that she is no longer THE Woman in his life, she can't/shouldn't dictate that. She can try to if she wants, but your husband should put his foot down, and if he's never dealt with this before, then you can show him how to have new family traditions. I think it's best for you guys to pick a day when you get the kids, whether that be Christmas Eve, or Day, or a day around then if it can't work out for either of those two days. This can't continue. They aren't a "family" anymore. And you two may decide to have kids on your own, so you need to focus on having family holidays together, and including his kids into your new family. Out of curiousity, you two just got married, so how long were you dating prior to marriage and what did he do on holidays during your courtship?

This place has helped me sooo much, but this is my first post!

In my BF's divorce, the parenting plan makes specific provisions for SS being at either parent's house for the holidays (which I didn't know until a few days ago when I got it out and read it for myself). Does your DH's divorce include court-ordered visitations? If so, the parenting plan might already outline where SD's are to be and with which parent for holidays.

Holidays seem to be a major issue on this site, mainly due to what you're going through right now. It seems to be a common staple for divorced women to try to force themselves into their ex husband's (or vice-versa) family holiday time.

Has she remarried? A lot of these problems seem to go away after the ex has remarried. And how old are the children?

I'm not going to tell you anything that you don't already know. It is unnatural and usually very uncomfortable for all involved to include ex-spouses in the holidays (especially after one or both have remarried). It sends mixed-messages to the kids. The ex-spouse who is foreign to the home can be uncomfortable and feel like an outsider. When I was a child with divorced parents, I would have never been comfortable with my father coming to my mother's home to spend a holiday with us. While she may feel that her forcing this issue is "what's best for the kids", what she doesn't know is the confusion and anger that the kids may feel as a result.

*~So sayeth Nymh~*

I went through a similar situation: the first Christmas that we were a couple, he went over to his ex girlfriend's place for a few hours in the morning Christmas Day. It really upset our whole Christmas because I just wasn't in the mood for the rest of the day. Well, THAT was the last time that happened. Now, Christmas with the kids means Christmas with the kids: he picks them up on a certain day and we do our own thing. Same with birthdays: she has a party for their daughter on her bday -which he pays for by the way cuz she's so broke- (& for some reason she never throws their son a lil party), and we do our own thing with them. I'll usually bake cupcakes and we take them to their school so they can have cupcake birthday time with their classmates. The kids are 6 & 5. One re-married, older gentleman once gave me some good advice, something his wife had to get him to see, and they were all the better for it: when a man remarries, or is going to remarry, he has to "bring everything to his wife." Meaning if he has kids, he has to bring the realm of the children and the concept of family TO HIS WIFE. His "family" is now his wife, his kids, and any kids that they have together. That's his family. It's like a new birth. It's not for the wife to fit into his old family unit. It doesn't exist anymore. She used to dictate how he couldn't bring the kids around me. And he would sneak (and I didn't know that he was sneaking until he came out with it in an arguement. I just assumed it wasn't an issue.), but then he just wouldn't bring them around at all because he felt guilty because she stressed not to. I let it go for about a month before my ultimatum came: I'm not going to be with someone who still lets their exGF control them/their time/our time like that. We could bring our relationship down several nothches to a "casual dating" situation or just be friends, but I was NOT going to seriously date someone who is still listening to his ex. And he knew that I meant it, because I truly did mean it. We've gone through soooooooooooo much, but things are so much better now.

We aren't married yet by the way but we're planning on it. Plus, he knows that I was in no way going to marry into a situation until stuff like that was ironed out! So this dating period (about 3 yrs) has been a good time to work all this stuff out. I didn't want to find out things were going to stay a mess AFTER the "I do's"! Altho from this site I see that you can't prepare for everything, you can at least try to get the logistics of how things will be handled on track.

The first two years we were dating, his kids were very little 3 and 5 and then 4 and 6, and I knew he wanted to see them open their present Christmas morning, so the kids would spend the night at their BM's parents house with BM, and my DH (then boyfriend) would go over there EARLY in the morning and then come visit me mid-morning. I accepted that and said it was fine because of the kids' ages, although it made me feel very sad. The second year that happened DH came home and said "It was fine but I don't think we'll be doing it that way next year, it doesn't feel right." (p.s. I was invited, but I chose not to go, I didn't want to spend my Christmas morning with the ex and her family).

Then we got engaged the following summer, and the next Christmas it all changed. We arranged with BM to have the kids Christmas Eve evening (not day) and Christmas morning (which I thought was very generous of her, and unexpectedly so--I think it had to do with the fact that her boyfriend (now husband) does not celebrate Christmas). This year (now DH and I are married) we will switch with BM and stepdad and they will get them Christmas Eve evening and Christmas morning; we get them Christmas Eve day (for celebration with my dad's family), then we drop them off Christmas eve and pick them up Christmas Day late in the day to open Santa presents at our house. Switching off holidays is specified in the settlement agreement, which helps, although we have this slightly different arrangement for Christmas since in our thinking Christmas is a bit different than other holidays. The kids actually love it, getting to go to both houses.

For other holidays, it's technically an every other year thing. For birthdays, we do separate family parties but we ALL go to the kids' parties with their friends--same for sports games, plays, etc. Sadly that tends to make those days that I don't look forward to, but I go and try to smile because in our situation, it's the right thing to do.

I wholeheartedly agree with the other comments--there comes a time when the new family needs to create its own special traditions, that's what being a family is about. I agree that doing otherwise will most often send mixed messages to the kids. I insisted on knowing we were on the same page about that before we got married. I'm curious that the "everyone in one place" deal is enforced so strongly as outlined in the post, given that the children are teenagers. Respectfully, it seems to me that unless there is some exceptional factor, teenagers are more than old enough to cope with having two different families with two different and independent holiday celebrations. They will perhaps soon be having their own significant other relationships that will increase their "family" circle even wider, and hopefully they won't expect their sig others to always go to their mom's house, and not share the celebrations with the sig others families. ...

Gwen: “They will perhaps soon be having their own significant other relationships that will increase their "family" circle even wider, and hopefully they won't expect their sig others to always go to their mom's house, and not share the celebrations with the sig others families. ...”

This is a very good point and I’ve never thought about that aspect of it but it is very true! Maybe this is something that can be brought up to the kids….it might help them to understand the dynamic if you bring it to their “level”.

Make a GREAT Day!

Oh, do I feel for you, I am almost in the same damnable situation. I didn't quite know what I was getting into. I was initially told "my ex wife is still somewhat close to my family, she will probably be at some holidays and events." The REAL story was is that this woman still had feelings for her ex, was COMPLETELY enmeshed with his family, to the point of going to Las Vegas with her former mom in law, etc, I constantly have to hear about the woman, she is included in ALL holiday events, and oh by the way, is a saint, did I mention that? (Other than the fact she was rude and horrible to me the first couple of times we met ... and people (meaning his family) then couldn't just seem to understand WHY I am just not THRILLED about socializing with his ex wife.) Granted, she had been nice to me the NEXT couple of times, but it seem(s) like I am HAUNTED by this woman. I didn't realize just HOW CLOSE to his family she is. I hate it.

So believe me, I feel for you. I have no children of my own. I wanted to forge a relatinship with his daughters which I am in the process of now. And at first I threw fits, but if you do that, Ruthie, I promise you, YOU will look like the bad one. If you read my blog, "Beaten down" there is a lot, LOT of good advice that you can glean insight from.

This is the best advice I can give you. GO with it. It may take some time, but as the kids grow up and have their own families, and SHE sees you are HERE to STAY, hopefully SHE will realize that HE has moved on, and SHE will move on too...(believe me, I have a hard time believing this myself, but it is something to cling to.) I hate it. I can't stand the fact that I have to spend ANY time with his ex wife - in MY family, we do not socialize with our ex's thank you, we do not TALK about them in front of hubby, etc. Just keep telling yourself that he is YOUR husband, and for the sake of all that is holy, DO NOT make a fuss or you will look like an ass. I know from very firsthand experience. Read all my blogs that you can, you will see that I ain't kidding.

At the end of the day, it's only a couple of times a year, grin and bear it for your husband's and skids sake. NO it isn't right, but trust me, as I have found out, you'd rather be happy than right.

Here's a big hug to you - and also I agree with you about making new family traditions, which will take time and patience.

Fearless

The way I see it, you have two options, you can grin and bear it until both kids are 18 and by every account old enough to deal with a different routine, or you can make a stand and let your hubby know how miserable this makes you.

I have been lucky (in a weird, almost not too nice way) that my Hubby can't stand his X and can barely stand the few minutes he has to be polite to her when they exchange the kids. But holidays are a beast unto themselves and when both bios want to be with their kids that leaves us newcomers kinda out in the cold. I've had to share a few birthdays and whatnot with the X and it's not fun. She either pretends I'm not even in the room (complete with looking straight through me) or is overly chummy in such a fake way that makes me want to take a shower afterwards. Hubby has a hard time understanding because for him it's all about the kids. He puts up with all this crap from her "for the kids" and he's willing to sacrifice just about anything for them. So I end up feeling like a heel for wanting to have our own celebrations with the kids. It's a fine line between striving for a new happy family cohesion and giving the kids a sense of continuity and reassurement that they are loved by both their bios.

I think a lot of the burden placed on us steps is that burden of feeling like an outsider when we want nothing more than to create our own group. You don't want to create a situation where you are telling your hubby "it's them or me", because he will resent it and wonder if you resent his children. My best advice is to sit down and honestly, and without anger, lay before him your feelings, your ideas, and everything you have said to us in your calmest "i'm not trying to argue but you need to know this" tone of voice. If he starts to get angry, take a step back. Show him you're not trying to confront him. If he can be made to see your side of things, he should be more willing to find some sort of compromise that will help both of you. I have to remind myself that Hubby feels conflicted too, and often continues doing what he's always done because it causes the least amount of problems. Also, I've found that when I try to hide anger or resentment, Hubby can still tell that there's something wrong, and it leads to tension later. The hurt or resentment builds and builds and turns into something far more painful than it started out as.

I think the girls ages really make a difference here...they are 16 and 18...definitely old enough to realize that their parents are divorced and lead separate lives. I can see maybe doing this for younger kids...much younger...and maybe even for a year maybe two after the divorce to get them use to the idea slowly. But 16 and 18...Can't see it. My BF did that a couple of years ago, when his youngest was 10..his ex came over very early in the morning and spent the day with them...but as soon as she was old enough to know there is no Santa...that stopped and they each do their own thing.

Good Luck

That at 16 and 18 they are old enough...I thought MY skids at 18 and 20 (at the time) were old enough to understand such things...and their father was going to "explain to them" how it was...yeah. DIDN'T happen. What DID happen I got told "this is the way that it is" and I could like it or I could leave.

Well like I say, I was NOT about to give that woman the satisfaction (unknowing or not) of leaving my marriage over THAT issue. I still think it's not right and not natural for ex's to co-mingle. I think it's unnatural for HIS family to keep on including the ex in all events. I think that it's disrespectful to OUR marriage. BUT, they did forge some strong relationships together over the years. That is the girl's mom. OF COURSE they are going to be protective over her and her feelings.

All I can hope is that maybe some day what goes around will come around and they (the ex wife AND the daughters) can experience the delight of having to socialize with an ex wife who throws out a total "I belong here, you don't" vibe (no matter now "nice" she appears to be.). I don't believe she should be included but for the sake of my marriage and all relationships involved, I will play nice. Just between you and me, I am DREADING, but DREADING xmas eve. But I will get through it, and hope to hell that my feelings don't show. Ever hear the word "smarmy"? To me THAT describes HER to a T.

I am also hoping in time that SHE will move on. I can't help but wonder if they didn't have children it would be different. It appears that when children ARE involved, all bets are off and this is a universal thing.

And maybe, just maybe, had she not been so creepy to me to begin with, I wouldn't feel this way...but also, my upbringing has a LOT to do with it (family values and what is done-and-not-done, etc.)
Of course, had she welcomed me with open arms I bet I would have less of a problem.

I'll be curious to see how she acts towards me during this holiday get-together. Supposedly she "understands why I was uncomfortable" and has "worked some things out." We'll see. I STILL have a heavy resentment about this whole thing, which I have unsuccessfully been able to let go of. (I mean, wouldn't you?) It aggravates me, so I have just decided to own my resentment and go from there.

Sorry for the rant, but this as you can see has STILL been bugging me, but I am just going to suck it up and deal...I am the one that has him, after all, not her, but that still quite ain't enough. I keep telling myself I am doing this not for HER or THEM (his family), but for my husband and his daughters. I guess this dilemma will wind up being the 9th Wonder of the World, because I can't for the life of me see any viable solution where us 2nd wives come out ahead.

*makes a sour face.*

To echo Anne8102, Merry F***ing Christmas.

Fearless

Whenever I made a slightly negative comment about my DH's ex he would defend her...so I stopped and let him make all the negative comments. I would tell him how I feel about something she did but from my perspective and not talk too much about her and BELIEVE ME she did horrible things. I think with the ex, it is kind of like, you can say something about your mom but don't want anyone else too and even though you are the new wife...this one thing I did understand somewhat even though it still stings a little to remember him defending her. In the end, and I am separated and don't know the future, but in the end for me it comes down to is your husband able to have you and his kids be his priority, and have boundaries with the ex so that everyone is clear...i.e., he will fix a toilet in an emergency but won't refinish their old bedroom set (mine did - at her house). My DH's ex calls daily and though she left him 7 years before I met him...somehow she thinks of me as the hussy who stole her man. In truth - even though divorced...he's always been so available to her that in her mind I did steal him. It's been pretty much hell. I can't believe, I wish I'd known so many others have similar issues with ex...what I started to say was it also comes down to do you really know your husband loves and wants a life with you but of course has to deal with Ex. If so, don't make it difficult for him...this is his lot in life and those are his kids. In my case...DH is so emeshed...doesn't know who he wants a life with I think. Any prayers out there would be great!