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HELP! When I go out with hubby and his daughter I feel like they're on a date and I'm the 3rd wheel.

katielee's picture

I am new here. This is the first time I've posted. I've been a stepmother for almost a year and really sincerely want to be a good one. I have never said an ill word to my husband about his 11 year old daughter nor had an ill word with her. But things are really starting to build up inside and I feel like I have to talk to him about some things...but gently and one thing at a time.

The first is this. Last night we went to a little restaurant with my stepdaughter, who is supposed to be at our house every other weekend but usually ends up being there every weekend. We went in and sat down...her at one side of the table and me at the other. He sat down next to her as he always does. Then they sit there and hug and kiss and hold hands the whole time. They share food and he wipes her mouth when she gets food on it. They do this every time we go out anywhere. If we go to Walmart, they hold hands through the store. Or they walk with their arms around each other. And I am following along behind, feeling totally left out.

I thought this kind of thing would wear off after my stepdaughter had time to get used to her dad being with another woman. He's not had very many girlfriends in front of her before me, so I'm sure it was a shock to her when he remarried.

So how do I handle this? I don't want to damage our marriage or my relationship with my stepdaughter. I have three grown biological children... (my baby is 19). My two oldest had a stepfather who made me miserable with all the negative things he said about them all the time. I don't want to do that to my husband.

However, I am tired of feeling awkward and left out and no longer want to go anywhere with them. If this doesn't change, I can see it leading to some major problems.

katielee's picture

Hi Stepmomma-in-hiding. I like your name. It's the way I feel lately.

I think I am going to try to address this with my husband tonight. He is a big sweet-hearted redneck, so I know he'll listen to me and probably try to fix it (though I'm not sure what he'll do). I'm just worried about hurting him or making HIM feel awkward and damaging my relationship with him. Or damaging the dynamics among the three of us.

Before I talk to him about it, I want to make sure I'm not in the wrong here. Should I just suck it up and live with it? Am I being the wicked stepmother?

Have you ever addressed it with your husband?

Amber Miller's picture

I had the same reaction. Does he wipe her ass too? This is weird. Sounds like SD is loving this. Sometimes I wonder after reading all these posts if these daughters would act less needy if their fathers didn't have a significant other. I love my dad but I'd never let him wipe my mouth.

omgsaveme's picture

I totally agree !!!!!! I think this is it, and it never hit me until you said it. A lot of men are insecure especially my DH and I think this is what they have cause its unconditional love to him. She never puts him down or anything

Aeron's picture

It absolutely will lead to a major problem. He probably doesn't mean to, but he's making her a mini-wife. I'm all for dad's showing their children affection, but age-appropriate affection. Hugging, kissing, and holding hands while sitting together for a meal at 11 is not what I would consider age appropriate.

I don't know if your husband is more open to reading things in an article and getting a light bulb, but there are a lot of good ones out there about emotional incest between fathers and daughters. Dads often get a Huge ego boost from having this little girl in total and utter adoration of him - an adoration that he doesn't get from a wife because in a grown-up relationship he has to work for it and usually he knows that his wife doesn't think he's just perfect.

I would perhaps approach him with you being concerned about the adult relationship he's modeling for his daughter. If his daughter were in your position, is this how he would want her to be treated? Does he want her to grow up thinking that the spouse should be pushed aside for the children? You want her to have healthy relationships when she grows up, relationships where she is treasured, valued and treated well. Seeing her father do this with you will help her look for that in her own life-partner. Seeing you pushed aside for the child will tell her that it's alright for her to be pushed aside by her spouse for others.

I would also, perhaps, ask him if he feels like he's getting enough time with just his daughter because you Do feel like a third wheel, like you're intruding on their private time because it feels like he's ignoring you during these outings.

You know him best, but men often respond to these concerns about their children most favorably when you present it as being concerned for the well-fare of the child. They, in my experience, tend to get less defensive and are thus more open to making changes.

I would not just let it go however, of you're going to wind up with a Terror on your hands. A kid who thinks that they have every right to Dad and all dad's time, money and attention and will wind up treating you like crap and is in Serious competition and generally, a Dad who sits there wringing his hands and "hates being in the middle" even though he created the issue.

katielee's picture

Wow! Thank you all sooo much! My biggest concern about talking to him on this issue is that I was being unreasonable. Thank you for letting me know I'm not the wicked, crazy stepmother for feeling this way. I am going to address this with him tonight. He is usually very responsive to what I have to say, and you all have brought up some very good points I had not even thought about. I appreciate it so much Smile

stepmomto3bioto1's picture

Recently I had to tell my DH that he needed to "Elevate" me back up to where I shouldve been all along- the other Adult who has Spousal Authority not only in our relationship- but also in our home!! For some reason it clicked for him. My SS11 (I also have SS9, SS14 & DD8) is like your SD!!! Yep-- my "mini wife" is really my SS- so yep boys can do this stuff too (albeit I think it hapoens with girls more). Another good idea is take your DH to the mall. Sit down on a bench & do alittle "people watching" make a kinda game out of it, point out how others show respect & spousal status to each other & if you get lucky enough- you can point out to him the sad " feels left out" face of the Adult Woman left behind while the Man overly affectionately over does it with his daughter!!!!! I happily got to point it out to my DH & I immediately got taken to my favorite restaraunt where DH apologized profusely!!! Wink

We went out this weekend as a family & DH reached out to hold my hand as we walked...side by side as a couple... Finally!! It. Felt. Great!!! Of course SS11 tried to whisk my DH in a different direction as soon as he saw it. DH kept holding my hand & didnt let SS manipulate the situation! I was soo happy!!! Its taken us almost 3 yrs now to get it right- & we are slowly getting there. SS11 is trying super hard to try to pull us apart & I exoected that- but DH is no longer blinded by SSs behaviours! Yay DH!!

You are not wrong in how you feel. Stick to your guns. Ive found that if you go into it with 'Im concerned for your kid because xyz" gets your point accross better with these dads.

Let us know how your talk goes & best of luck!!

katielee's picture

I wish there was a "like" button on here Smile So glad things went well for you. I'm hoping to get positive results, as well.

SanAntonioSoccerMom's picture

I am curious why a dad and daugther showing affection makes you feel left out? Does he not show you any affection? While the affection they share may be over the top, I really don't think it is that out of the ordinary nor does it imply sexual relations. Unless of course they are tongue kissing or groping each other, then that is a different kettle of fish.

katielee's picture

I don't know. Maybe it's because I feel like my place is by his side. Maybe I feel like I have a co-wife instead of a stepdaughter. Maybe I'm just insecure...jealous...a wicked stepmother? For whatever reason, it bothers me. And believe me, I have thought long and hard about bringing this up with my husband.

Yes, he shows me affection...just not when she's around. And no, I don't think for one second their affection implies sexual relations. I just know if our marriage is going to last, I have to be able to talk to him about what bothers me. And this bothers me. A lot.

I have kept calm and carried on for nearly a year now. It's not working for me. Thanks anyway.

katielee's picture

I want to say thank you to all of you who encouraged me on this subject. I talked to my husband tonight and it went really well. As I said, he's a good-hearted redneck and he does love me. He doesn't really understand exactly why this bothers me, but he says that since it does, he will work on changing it.

I told him not to do anything drastic. I do NOT want the child to be hurt in this situation, and him pulling back suddenly would confuse and hurt her. Now that he's aware of how I feel, I suspect he'll be more careful to include me. He is a wonderful father and just as wonderful of a husband.

I will keep you all updated on how things go. Again...thanks for your advice and encouragement.

katielee's picture

When I talked to my husband, he said he would work on fixing it, but he said he didn't know what to do. He kinda said maybe she and I should sit on one side of the table and he on the other. I disagree with that, honestly. He and I should sit on one side of the table and she on the other, but at this time I am willing to take what I can get. He even said, "What do you want me to do? Sit on your side of the table and leave her by herself?" He didn't say it in a nasty voice, but I could tell he was appalled at the idea. So yes... we have a way to go.

I loved the suggestion that we go to the mall and watch other families and note how the parents walk and sit together. Last night we were watching a movie and the couple sat on one side of the table and their daughter on the other. I really wanted to point that out, but I didn't want to keep harping on the subject. My husband does better once he's had some time to process what I've already said. And as I said, I only just now mentioned it to him after nearly a year of marriage, so I am going to give him some time to get used to the idea and see how he does with it before I bring it up again.

SanAntonioSoccerMom's picture

That is so funny, because the opposite happens in my case. Both my husband and myself take turns on who gets to sit in the booth alone. I usually try to stick my 11 year old with him so I can sit on the side by myself and spread out.

katielee's picture

From past experience, I think I can say it feels different when it is your biological child taking your "place". You biological child almost feels like an extension of yourself, know what I mean? Your stepchild does not feel like an extension of yourself, but rather someone who is taking your place. HUGE difference in the way it feels.

Totalybogus's picture

I think you just hit the nail on the head. This IS his biological child. Sometimes we need to put the shoe on the other foot. I know if I only got to see my kids every other weekend, I would want to share that time with them. I'm with my husband every day of the year. I'm sure that's probably what he is feeling.

katielee's picture

We see her a lot more than every weekend. And I have no problem with him spending time with his child as long as I am not cast aside and no longer have a husband while she's there. If he can't spend time with both of us in our proper places, maybe he doesn't need a wife. I mentioned to him that maybe he didn't have room in his life for a wife, but he totally denies that and says we will work on things so that I don't feel excluded. I do know that I'm NOT willing to be his wife through the week, doing all the hard work of life, and then not be a wife on the weekends when we can relax and chill and have a nice time. That's not fair and it makes me resentful.

And I do only get to see my kids occasionally. The two that live nearby are young adults. I have two granddaughters that I get to see maybe once a month. When they come over, I don't completely forget he's alive. I sit next to him, include him in our conversations, the kids play with him, etc. That's because I have a HEALTHY relationship with my kids. He needs a healthy relationship with his.

Tuff Noogies's picture

"What do you want me to do? Sit on your side of the table and leave her by herself?"

lmao - that's just ridiculous... my DH has kind of the same mentality so i'm totally on your side with this. it's so hard for them to see what normal is supposed to be like.

she's 11, not a toddler. a foot and a half away directly in front of him and facing him- is that really leaving her by herself??? sheesh.....

RedWingsFan's picture

^^^^^AMEN!!!!!!!!!!! DH was the same way at first. OMG heaven forbid she can't sit ON YOUR LAP at the fucking dinner table! It was bad. She was TWELVE and thrown into a fit of tears when he told her politely that MY place was next to him, she could take the seat directly across from him.

RedWingsFan's picture

^^I pointed out to DH how SD14 would literally flip shit when he left the room (I silently used the video recorder on my phone). He went to the bathroom at a sweet 16 party of a friend of mine's daughter. SD was 12 at the time and was sitting next to us at the table with a few of my friends she already knew.

DH excused himself to go to the bathroom. SD got up to follow him. He turned and said "I'll be right back, I'm just stepping out to the restroom, sit down". I pulled out my phone and pretended to take photos of everyone but was recording SD. She fidgeted, pouted, crossed her arms, got red in the face, kept her eye on the door leading to the bathroom the whole time, asked me 4 times in the 5 minutes DH was gone "when's dad coming back?" "Can't I just go wait for him by the door?", then started to cry. When she saw DH reappear and start walking toward the table, she jumped up and ran to him, arms outstretched yelling, "There you are daddddy, I was SOOOOO worried!" with tears in her eyes. I mean, come on. This was totally fffing ridiculous and there's no way he would've believed me had I not gotten it on video.

I showed it to him and that's when he agreed maybe it was time for therapy for her!

bi's picture

sd20 used to say to me "where's my dad?????" in a state of panic anytime he left the room she was in. all the time, it was so annoying. if he went to the bathroom, she would stand right outside of it, and say "dad? are you pooping?" she was in her teens doing this! one day when she did her "where's my dad" panic attack, i told her calmly that he was in whatever room. you know, the condescending kind of calm that silently screams "damn, you're stupid!" then i asked her if she was afraid he was going to run away and never come back if she didn't keep him in her sight at all times. the look on her face when i asked her that told me she read between the lines and knew i was making fun of her. }:)

RedWingsFan's picture

^^^Yep, SD14 was exactly the same but she didn't care that I was being condescending to her. She continued this until DH stepped up and put a stop to it. Crazy shit isn't it?

Disneyfan's picture

Watching families in the mall won't help. Honestly you will just get a snap shot of the moment. You will have no idea if what you're seeing is the norm for that family.

When DF, his girls and I are out, we may walk/sit
a. SDs together
b. Both girls with me
C. Both girls with DF
D. One girl with each of us

Dimples-gj's picture

Soooooo how I feel! Thankful to know that. My bf has 2 girls 9 & 11
The 11 yr old ..geezuz what a piece if work...bad enough the nightly
bloody cuddle times every damn night they are here...which means me
getting kicked out of our(MY) bed so they can cuddle for a good effn
hour and then I can't go to sleep cuz they have to be left to sleep so I'm
not allowed to disturb them... Same way when well out..the three of them sit beside
each other and me alone on opposing side. Then they swoon and pet him and whine
u til they can sit on his lap...seri souls a frign 11yr old!!

I so feel your pain and I know I'm at the end of my rope...

Good luck!!

katielee's picture

AnaR, Thanks so much. This is really good advice. I do have a great relationship with my stepdaughter to this point. It's just started to go downhill only lately. I kept thinking the whole exclusion/physical affection thing would wear off once my stepdaughter got used to having me around, and it did for awhile, but now that her mother is single again it has gotten worse than ever.

I think as soon as I can feel established as the wife in the relationship, we can work together to take care of the emotional needs of the child. I probably need to have another discussion with my husband because I don't think he understands this at all.

How to make a man understand that a woman needs to feel cherished & validated? Like she matters? Sigh...I don't know. And my husband, though good-hearted, is clueless about these things.

Thorn in my heart's picture

Sorry that's just plain creepy! A father is a father, not a pretend boyfriend. Ewww....just ewwwww. I couldn't deal with that. Do they snuggle on the coach and watch tv in bed together?

Tuff Noogies's picture

Nope. but observe intact families. even kids who are sensitive, affectionate, "mushy" dont get to this level. EVEN if u 'allow for' time apart due to custody arrangements- think like how kids would show grandparents affection after not seeing them for a few wks- they would NOT get ANYWHERE NEAR this level. well, maybe at the age of 3 or 4, but not pre-teen.

DH's - By all means show affection, treat with kindness and good manners, and have fun together- but also teach appropriate roles within a family so they may have a better chance at creating a stable, loving family for themselves as adults.

Tuff Noogies's picture

ana-proof??? :jawdrop: :sick:

katielee's picture

SanAntonioSoccerMom.... NOBODY here has a problem with children/parents showing APPROPRIATE affection for each other. Everybody here is good person trying to work through a difficult situation. And step-parenting IS difficult.

SanAntonioSoccerMom's picture

I know it is. I have raised and lived with my two stepsons for the past 17 years. I think a lot of problems women (mostly women) bring on themselves by being hyper sensitive and sweating the small stuff. I am well versed in being a step parent, I know it is not easy but I have never been concerned with my place in the family or attention my husband gave his kids. My husband had children and custody of them well before I came along. I knew I was going to be in a blended family. I did not know everything then, but I know a lot now, and there are many things I wished I would have done differently because 17 years later it truly doesn't matter.

Disneyfan's picture

Well said.

I wonder how many women would have an issue with this if DH was treating their daughter (husband's SD) this way.

Would it still be creepy, dirty, the makings of a miniwife...

Or would it be cute, sweet...

If it's OK for a SD, then it's pretty sick to twist the SAME type of affection into something creepy when it's his BD.

bi's picture

so who did twisted it and made it creepy while thinking it was ok for their own daughter? oh. no one. it's just you making crap up to try to make everyone wrong again. i should have known.

RedWingsFan's picture

^^My DH hugs DD15 when he sees her, but honestly, I would've never married him if he tried carrying on with her the way he did with SD14. NO way. DD15 even was creeped out by the way SD ALWAYS had to hold DH's hand, sit on his lap wherever we were, would cry or pout or follow him if he left the room, spooned him on the floor during a movie. DD15 looked at me like "WTF is wrong with her?"

It would NOT be cute or sweet. It would be ICKY with a capital I and my DD wouldn't tolerate it. I asked her if her dad ever, and I mean EVER behaved with her in that fashion (knowing he hadn't but she'd been living with him for the past few years so I wasn't speculating). She looked at me like I was crazy and said "That's a tad inappropriate, don't you think?" Ummm, YEAH I DO!

SugarSpice's picture

its different with daughters. you dont understand the dynamic here. men with daughters is different than men with their sons.
we are not being hypersensitive.

katielee's picture

No... thankfully they do not lie in bed together. She turned 10 just about the time we met and he started making her sleep by herself at that time. He does not lie on the couch with her either. Occasionally she will crawl into his lap in the recliner, though.

Unfreakingreal's picture

YES, MINE DO! SD12 PURPOSELY sits in between DH and me when we're on the couch watching tv, she drapes her legs over his and then clasps his hand between hers. It's really disgusting to me and I laugh it off but it is annoying as fuck.
Last time we went to the movies she got furious with me because I wouldn't let her sit BETWEEN me and DH. She INSISTED she didn't want to sit on the end, I said I didn't give a damn and that she better MOVE.

Orange County Ca's picture

I didn't read your complait nor any of the answers.

Answer: You are. The third wheel. After all isn't he allowed to concentrate on a kid he sees only rarely? You've got him the rest of the time - let them go alone if you're bored.

Best advise you'll ever get if you haven't gotten it already - read this:

http://steptogether.org/disengaging.html

katielee's picture

If you didn't read my complaint not any of the answers, then I certainly don't think you're qualified to give advice. Thanks anyway.

Thorn in my heart's picture

If you didn't read the OP's question, why are you bothering to post anything? You've just lowered the idiotic bar.

bi's picture

he's a moron. he thinks he knows everything and goes off on some crap advice that doesn't even fit the situation ALL the time. he also has a really old post that he likes to copy and paste over and over, because he thinks his advice is so great that it works for everyone all the time. ignore him. his hat has been on way too tight for way too long.

oncechoosetosmile's picture

lol

jojo68's picture

I so understand...My SD13 does the same thing...affection between a child and parent should not make the other person watching feel uncomfortable or angry or leftout...period.

katielee's picture

So glad you are the authority on this.

On second thought, don't tell me how something should make me feel. That is up to me.

jojo68's picture

Sorry I didn't say that right...if any person is made to feel uncomfortable while witnessing behavior that is going on then that behavior is probably not normal. I think it is instinctive in fact...jmho though.

Katielee...I was dogging the creepy behavior not the fact that you responded to it..

katielee's picture

I know that now... Sorry... I just read it wrong the first time. I totally agree with what you're saying.

Unfreakingreal's picture

Thankfully I have been able to address this with DH without it turning into a big dramafest. I have said "Hey I get that you hardly see her, but you need to make sure that she understands the difference between WIFE & CHILD, because if you don't set those boundaries she's going to start thinking SHE is the Queen of this castle and the last thing you want is a showdown in this house cause it WILL get ugly."
He just says "Oh I know honey don't worry, I know." Not sure he knows though... LOL...

katielee's picture

Awesome! I'm glad somebody was able to resolve this issue. I am kind of on pens and needles waiting for this weekend to see what happens. I know my husband is going to try to do something about it, but what I'm afraid he will do is try to "be fair" between us. He will put my sd and I on one side of the table and himself on the other. That won't work either, will it? Because we are still co-wives if that's the case. I think I am going to have to talk to him further.

Unfreakingreal's picture

I didn't say it was RESOLVED darling, I said I discussed it with him. I'm a tad childish at times so one time we were leaving the movies. As we're walking to the car, he is in front with HER holding hands and I am left behind. So I stop walking, lean up against the movie theatre and wait to see if he notices that I'm not behind him. After a few feet he realizes I'm not behind him, walks back and says "What's wrong?" I said "Oh I figured you wanted some privacy with your date so I decided to hang back."
He smiled shook his head and said "I'm sorry honey" in a baby tone and held my hand as we walked. He thought I was joking, but I was pretty annoyed.

Unfreakingreal's picture

You know, I DO feel bad that I'm being a spoiled bratty wife sometimes, but it's not easy when the Skid is PURPOSELY pushing my buttons. She'll glance at me and smile as if she knows that it's getting under my skin, so MANY times I just laugh it off because I find that she loses steam when I ignore her.
My DH is clueless, which fascinates me, you'd think that a man that at one time in his life was such a PLAYER would know the tricks of women, cause his kid may be 12 but she plays GROWN WOMEN games.

fedup13's picture

He shouldn't "put" you anywhere. If she sits down beside him first, look her dead in the eye and say, "excuse me, but you need to get up, sit over there." If she refuses, he needs to tell her to get up. If he doesn't, oh holy Moses, I would leave the restaurant on principle. I feel so bad for you. You are a newlywed, you should not be dealing with this!! You should never be made to feel like you are co wife with his friggin daughter!! It is clear that she is a spoiled brat, knows no boundaries, and he has to lay the law down. I spent way too long feeling you do in certain ways. These men and these little darlings they call daughter, they fully expect you to sit there and, as Julia Roberts said in Something to Talk about, "eat the loads of bullshit they feed, or in your case, subject you to politely with a knife and fork." Absolutely not. You are newly married and this is already eating at you and you are already stressed and upset and if it continues you will resent you DH so much, loathe princess, and be so miserable.

fedup13's picture

Exactly. Pretty sure an 11 year old girl is not totally naïve to what is going on and is most likely eating it up that she gets to sit with Daddy, she gets to walk with Daddy, she gets to hold Daddy's hand, Daddy wipes baby's mouth for her, etc., while his new wife is ignored. In my book, that is a brat.

fedup13's picture

Here we go, I was really hoping you would not put me in this position, but here we go. YOU know NOTHING about MY story. I will treat you the same way I did Stickafork, because according to MANY posters here, the two of you are pretty much one in the same, and from what I have heard from MULTIPLE posters is that YOU are not even a stepmother, so why are you on here spouting your mouth off at all if that is the case? I told SAF this and now I am telling you the same, I have shared my story with those posters I feel are actually here to be supportive, actually here because they need a place to VENT their hate, their confusion, their frustrations, their disappointments, actually here to listen and commiserate. I have not seen you be as downright ugly as SAF has personally, and I have actually, in fact, agreed with some of your posts. I am not the kind to hone in on a person and attack them just to hijack a thread and start an argument, so I don't disagree with you when I think you are being critical of others, not my kind of game to play.

But, now that you have addressed me personally, when you know NOTHING of me personally, I am going to speak out. If you had been thru what I have been thru, you would think HATE was not a strong enough word for what I feel. You have no idea. Last night, I said this poster's SD is a spoiled brat because to me, if she is carrying on with her father like she is, in my opinion, she is most likely doing it on purpose to get under the poster's skin. Do you have to agree? No. Should you feel the need to use it as your chance to pick at me? No. I genuinely feel sorry for this poor woman, and foresee this turning into a major problem for her and her marriage if it does not stop. It is in no way your place to correct me on HER post. No one except posters like you or SAF would read thru everything people say and pick out that one thing and try to make a huge deal over it. Who cares??? Oh, wait a minute, women that want to pick internet fights and stir up drama for no reason other than their own amusement when it is of NO benefit to the OP at all, that is who.

To the OP, excuse this ridiculousness. Unfortunately on here, as I learned early on, there are some posters on here that like to stir up trouble for no reason except they are either miserable or bored or both.

fedup13's picture

Well, thank you so much steptalk hall monitor for giving me the permission to feel how I want to feel!! Bless your heart! I feel so much better now knowing I have your blessing. I am pretty damn sure I have not told people, "hey, I hate my brat stepkid so your stepkid MUST be a brat too and you MUST hate them." Again, you know NOTHING about me or my life, nor why I feel like I do. When I respond to posts, it is either because I can relate or I sympathize, I don't tell people they have to be like me, if anything, I try and warn them to NOT end up like me. Planting seeds? It was a simple observation, how I interpreted her posts thus far. You do plenty of your own "interpretations" and I am pretty sure if everyone started coming out of the woodwork to nitpick at you, the posts would go on for days. I see posts on here ALL the time that I don't agree with, but I understand that they have a right to say what they want and not be criticized so I don't reply out of respect for them, which is something that sometimes, is lost on you.

katielee's picture

He doesn't really "put" me somewhere, but he does open the door for us and we walk in first and end up walking to the table first. Usually I sit down on one side and she sits on the other and it's up to him to choose where he'll sit, which is almost always by her.

Last week at breakfast, the restaurant was crowded and she walked in and stood at the edge of the table and saw that I was going to slide in next to her, so there was a great bit of confusion for her while she tried to figure out how to back up and get out of sitting next to me. Her dad impatiently told her to "go on in" and she did, so she ended up next to me. (That was the day we had the, "Daaaadddyyy? Will you cut up my pancake?" in the 4 year old's voice.)

So the plan at this point is to wait and see what he will do to fix it. If he shows effort, I will keep talking to him until we get it right. If he doesn't... well... I probably WILL get up and leave the restaurant. If he walks arm in arm with her and I EVER end up following them through the store again, I will walk the other way. I am DONE putting up with it. (I have also talked to my son about this and has said he'll pick me up whenever I need him to.)

But knowing my husband, now that I have spoken to him about this he will do his best to make sure I am seated next to sd and he will sit on the other side because he'll want to be "fair" and make us both happy. Pretty sure he still doesn't understand WHY this is a problem for me... he just knows I'm hurt by it and he will try to make it better. I can almost guarantee we're going to have to have several conversations about this before it sinks in that there really is a problem with what he's been doing, both for his daughter and our marriage.

RedWingsFan's picture

Oh Hell NO! SD14 would always mess with the passenger seat of DH's truck when riding with him and whenever I'd get in I'd have to readjust it. Mind you, I'm only about an inch taller than SD, so she didn't NEED to move the seat anywhere. She just did so because she knew it bothered me.

Finally, I told DH to please remind her not to mess with the seat or she could take the back seat. He said "Well, frankly, it was HER seat first". I almost lost it! I collected my thoughts and said "Ok, who sleeps with you?" He said, "well you do" and I said "If you want me to CONTINUE sleeping with you, you'll remind her NOT to touch MY FUCKING SEAT."

fedup13's picture

MY reaction to reading that too!! WTF is wrong with these guys?? Her seat first? That is damn good one.

SweetMom's picture

You should start mocking her to your DH when it's just the two of you and say." DuDddddyyy will you cut my pancake for me, duddddyyy pwease (4yr old voice)" them laugh. Do this a lot and more often. I bet he will put a stop to it.

oncechoosetosmile's picture

The stupidness of those men wanting to treat "his girls" equally!! My SO tried that as well - this makes it all worse since it is like a competition and SD still thinks she has equal rights instead of understanding where her and your place should be. I remember that SD used to run up to SO when he gave me a cuddle and a kiss to shout at him that he now has to give her "an even bigger cuddle and kiss"because she is is freaking DAUGHTER!! who is a mini wife??

katielee's picture

LOL...I wish there were LIKE buttons on this site. I did think about just walking in a different direction the next time I have to follow them through Walmart. On second thought, IT BETTER NOT HAPPEN AGAIN. Period. Ima be a pissed-off wife if it does, and to this point he's not ever seen me really pissed.

fedup13's picture

Well, if he lets this shit continue, he needs to see you pissed off. The stuff he allows, ugh, would drive anyone mad.

New second wife-step-mom's picture

Katielee, I am not suggesting your husband is a pervert but I am creeped out by the men on this site that allow and condone this behavior from their daughters.

I have never had to deal with this but to be honest I feel like the fathers are doing a great injustice to their daughters by allowing this behavior.

When you have young girls/daughters that are allowed to act this way with a MAN (any MAN) will she think this is acceptable behavior for Uncles, Cousins, etc.

Let's face it, there is creeps in this world and daughters need to be taught this hugging, kissing, holding hands, constantly touching, cuddling in bed is not allowed by ANY man.

These MEN need to show affection to their wives/SO's not their little girls. There needs to be a distinct difference. So that their wives and daughters know and feel the difference.

There is acceptable behavior like a kiss or hug goodbye, telling them you love them but some behavior should be saved for the man in her life when she gets older and she should not be confused between the two.

RedWingsFan's picture

^^^Yep!

misSTEP's picture

Fathers seem to forget that the relationship they have with their daughters are the ones the daughters will mimic down the road with their romantic interests.

Father ignores daughter = daughter will seek out male attention elsewhere

Father overindulges daughter = daughter will expect the world to revolve around her

Father/daughter behave inappropriately = daughter won't know what kind of boundaries to have with men

RedWingsFan's picture

Definitely!

DH learned the hard way that he had to strike a balance between these roles.

At first he was: Father indulges daughter (gave her adult status, had to ask her permission to live his life, let her make decisions for him) with a mix of inappropriate behavior (holding hands constantly, spooning on the floor, her sitting on his lap) = created mini wife queen of the world SD who thought SHE was in control of everything and would pitch a major fit if she was told no.

Then he got to the Father ignores daughter - only after trying to set healthy boundaries. She sought out affection and attention elsewhere and had a pregnancy scare at 13.

Amber Miller's picture

The genius SD decided she needed a baby for attention. She had to date a different guy every month to make it happen and then " OMG daaadeeee I'm pregnant; you're going to be a grandfather, isn't this great? I can't even take care of myself and hold down a job so this is a great time to have a baby. No, I don't have a boyfriend, just a donor who will now pay my way for the next 18 years".

Same sickening garbage out of this kid. She had quite a few abortions. You'd think she knew where babies came from by now.

fedup13's picture

That sounds like skid's Mom. She wanted to get pregnant, she wanted to get married, she wanted all of that to hide the fact that she is a lesbian. She slept around until finally someone's swimmers hit her egg. No job, in no way was responsible for herself, just a total selfish idiot who ran across men just as idiotic for not wearing a condom.

Amber Miller's picture

Oh goodness. So sad that there is more than one person that acts this way.

katielee's picture

Awwww...he did sooooo good Smile . He sat next to me in the booth. He held my hand. He made sure he walked by me. He did so much better than I expected.

And you know what? It is so much easier for me to feel kindhearted toward my sd now.

She did pout a bit, but she got over it when I gave her quarters to go play some games in the restaurant game room. I think she'll be okay.

oncechoosetosmile's picture

Katielee, I could have written your lines two years ago and still sometimes I have some of those issues.
First- you are not unreasonable to feel the way you feel.
When I met SO first SD was 5 and had total "mini wife" and adult status with SO. With the knowledge that I have these days I would have just walked away.Those days I had no idea what was going on and thought it will get better like you stated.After all the kid was still small though clearly going on 20 the way she came across even then.But I didn't wanted to be petty about things....
The same stuff happened all the time- wherever we would go she would cling to him like a baby, they held hands , kissed and I walked BEHIND them.She turned 6 and eventually 7 and it was all the same until I started putting my foot down.
I had to learn first that it wasn't me doing or feeling anything wrong- only then I was able to speak out!
Katielee, you need to ensure you are treated like his wife not any less than this.Adult relationship must have priority (although the rs with his daughter must be naturally his responsibility).You feel horrible because your status is worth nothing in comparison to the way he treats his daughter.This is out of balance and your DH needs to recognise and change it if he wants to support his marriage to you.And if he gets defensive you can tell him that no child should be having adult status and that it is not healthy for his daughter either.

katielee's picture

Ok... I bragged on him too fast. Yesterday morning we went to breakfast and guess who he sat next to?

It wasn't totally his fault. He suggested a table and I'm pretty sure he meant for both sd and I to sit on one side and he on the other, but sd stood at the seat next to me until he sat down then she went around the table and sat next to him.

It wasn't fun for him, I know. I told him I was going to walk to a nearby store and get some Tylenol for my headache that was beginning but he didn't want me to do that. I ordered and ate really fast, then I went to the bathroom for 10 minutes until I got my son on the phone, then I walked outside to talk to him for the rest of breakfast.

The stress triggered a migraine so the rest of my day was hell. I told hubby why I was upset...that I was not taking turns. He is totally clueless. Doesn't understand my viewpoint at all, but says it won't happen again. He probably just thinks I'm being a bitch. I am praying he will understand what I mean by wanting to be in my place as his wife, but it might be beyond him as a man. I do think he will do better next time simply because he hates it when I'm mad at him and I was an unhappy, sick camper all day yesterday.

fedup13's picture

"but sd stood at the seat next to me until he sat down then she went around the table and sat next to him."

She is 11. She knows what she is doing and her doing ^^THIS^^ just shows that is true. I would stop going out to eat when she was with me if this was my situation. Save the going out to eat for the days when it is just you and your DH.

katielee's picture

The problem is that she's such a damn picky eater that I am at a loss as to what to cook for her. I used to fall back on spaghetti-o's for her, which is what her mama used to feed her. Now she's tired of them too. She was raised on nothing but junky processed foods, and I do not serve those things over here. I have fibromyalgia and that kind of junk sends me into a flare.

fedup13's picture

I used to play that game with skid too. He is picky, he is a junk foodaholic because everyone gives in to his demands, plus he has major ODD so he will refuse what you cook just for the perceived power he thinks he gets out of defying authority. The solution I finally found that worked: I NO LONGER COOK FOR THE BRAT!!! Nothing. Ever. I am not going to cater to him. He is impossible to please and it is not my job to deal with that. You are making the same mistakes A LOT of us made in the beginning because we are trying to be accommodating to our spouses whom we love by doing things for their children. Once you learn to disengage from a lot of her ridiculousness you will feel so much better.

katielee's picture

Last weekend, when I was so sick with the migraine, she didn't eat at the cookout because she was so busy playing with the other kids, even though her dad told her two or three times she needed to eat.

So on the way home, it's "What are we having for dinner?"

I told her there was a frozen pizza in the refrigerator. She went on the beg her dad to get her Pizza Hut because she doesn't like frozen pizza. He refused, of course. It was always ME doing those nice kinds of things for her.

I told my dh I was going to try to eat some cereal and that's what he had, too. SD stayed in her room and didn't eat anything to my knowledge (even though I had bought plenty of spaghettios, frozen pizzas, individual mac n cheese, etc.)

fedup13's picture

That is your answer right there. If a kid is hungry, they WILL eat. She tried to be in control and get her way by asking for Pizza Hut when frozen pizza was the suggestion given by you. That was not good enough, because it was your suggestion. When she was told no, she pouted and did not eat in order to try and make your DH feel guilty so that he would give in next time. It is all a power play with these kids.

SugarSpice's picture

wives DO NOT take turns with the daughters. period. you are right to be angry with him. keep the anger up. its a great tool to let you dh know he is screwing up.

katielee's picture

Lavender, I totally agree. One thing I asked my dh that seemed to sink in was, "Can't we pay attention to her TOGETHER rather than me being cast aside?" He didn't answer but I could tell it hit home.

I love how they think they're going to die if they have to hurt SD's feelings but they couldn't care less about ours. Pisses me off.

katielee's picture

"I told him it is not about taking sides , it's about him treating his Wife like a Wife should be treated and treating his child like a child."

This is good...very, very good. I will tell my husband that. Maybe it will sink in Smile

katielee's picture

stepmomma.in.hiding... Sad I'm so sorry you didn't enjoy the rodeo. I can totally relate. It is an awful thing to feel invisible, excluded, and unwanted.

I remember last Christmas calling my son and practically BEGGING him to come up here because I felt so excluded. Thankfully he came right on up and we had a nice time.

I wish our dh's understood that if we were included, we have so much to offer.

extech1's picture

I have the same issues but on the SD side, the BM (My fiance) has snuggle time while we watch tv or movies. I get to sit by myself on a chair! Sucks!

extech1's picture

I have the same issues but on the SD side, the BM (My fiance) has snuggle time while we watch tv or movies. I get to sit by myself on a chair! Sucks!

SweetMom's picture

My sd11 grabs DH hand when we walk. I just grab the other hand. Sometimes I just let them be and he kinda lets her hand go. He has stressed to her that she is a young lady now. It is probably because I have talked about Mini wife Symdrome to him before. She goes every where he goes. If he walks outside she is his shadow. I underrstand she came over to see him and my
Not me so I let them be. I think he gets more embarrest about the situation because when him and I are alone ( privately) I will say , yesss daddy and he will call me a sick o. Lol we just joke. I stress to him that people are the real sick o's and see things for more than what they are so all that coddly kissy shit with a girl that is taller than me looks to be ODD. I have even showed him the video that went viral of the little girl with her legs strapped around her daddy dancing to a love romantic song and kissing of the neck. He said that was not right. Maybe your sd is doing this from orders that her BM gave her to piss you off and cause drama. Either way, I'd make DH feel like a pervert by doing this. Maybe you should say, " yes sir daddy" like let him see. Reverse physiology

SugarSpice's picture

when i was first marriage the sds were still quite young and i was the fourth wheel on a tricycle. when they arrived to visit their father, they each held his hands at his sides while i walked behind them like a servant. i knew then and there that something was wrong. fathers are often pathologically tied to their daughters because of guilt over the divorce. in the end, the daughters end up like best friends, or worse, wives.

daughters need their fathers up to a certain point. after puberty, this daddy-daddy business is sick and interferes with a young woman finding her own love relationships.

ChiefGrownup's picture

My sd15 has a boyfriend now, quite steady. I think I'll take credit for it. Because before I came along she had no need for anyone but daddy. There wasn't the hanging all over kissy stuff described in the mini wife syndrome, but she talked to him non stop whenever they were together to the exclusion of the other child and everyone else. He fulfilled her every need for any social interaction. She had not a single friend her own age. None. When a neighbor girl rang the doorbell, she'd run and hide. If forced to play with her, tears and accusations would soon follow. That girl doesn't come around any more.

So I come along and I'm appalled and worried. Then sets in the feeling excluded, not wanted feelings as she elbows me aside and walks by her dad every time we're all out together. Sits next to him. Sucks all the oxygen out of the room by constantly keeping her dad's attention directed at her one way or another. Either talking or misbehaving.

DH and I went the rounds on this. Things are much better now (not perfect). But by prying her death grip off daddy, it made a space in her life for someone else. So when puberty charged up at almost 15, she was ready to reciprocate the attentions of a boy at school.

Ah! Sudden insight, thanks to this thread! Her relationship with this boy does mimic her earlier relationship with daddy -- obsessive! But it's better than her having no peer relationships whatsoever. I think. (?)

Funny, when I look at the date on the original thread here I see that it was posted at exactly the same time I was going through this the worst. We had just married. After previously liking me, sdthen13 went ninja nazi on me. The first time the 4 of us went to a street festival together with us now married it was agony as dh was oblivious to sd's maneuvers to cut me out and I was going from hurt to enraged to coldly wondering if I'd made a mistake as I trailed behind their Dynamic Duo. Too bad I didn't find ST at that time! This thread would have done wonders for me!

fedupstep's picture

I feel your pain. I am constantly feeling like I am intruding in some sick love-fest when SD16, DH and I go anywhere. It's disturbing the way she hangs all over him. She looks older than she is and it makes him look like a dirty old man. He has had to gently push her away at times. But I understand where you're coming from. I'm not jealous, but know it would be taken that way if I say anything. I want them to have a HEALTHY relationship, but not the expense that I am always an afterthought. There have been times I have literally pushed her aside so I could walk beside my husband and hold his hand.

Your DH has to draw boundaries with her. Either that or don't join them when they go out. If they as why, just tell them you don't want to disturb them. Hopefully he will rethink it.

Ruby55's picture

My SD was about 12 when DH and I met. We went out to eat a lot. If it was a booth he always sat with me. I can't imagine it any other way. SD always seemed fine with it. If her parents were married....wouldn't the child sit on one side? I don't know.....My dad and SM always sat together too.

katielee's picture

Hey y'all,

This thread was posted a couple of years ago when I first admitted to my husband that I had a problem with his mini-wife situation. I was at my wit's end.

Since then, SDnow13 has been dumped at our house by BM and we have full custody :O

Things have gotten much better as far as the mini-wife behavior goes. It still tries to crop up every now and then but I nip that shit in the bud real fast. I wrote a book entitled "Mini-Wife Syndrome: A Stepmother's Guide" if any of you are interested in my strategy;) Has worked wonders here. We still have our issues but mini-wife behavior is rarely part of it. It is an e-book and is available on Amazon.

I wish you all the best. It sucks feeling like you are living with the "other woman" and it can take a huge toll on your marriage.

~Katielee

ClutterMusings's picture

I would say def get it off your chest. For me, I let SO much that bugged me go because I didn't want to "intrude."

Well, that all ended up blowing up in my face. So I had to let it ALL fly and put my foot down even if I sounded petty. It got really bad because I held in too long.

Now the resentment is rotting me at the core over all of it.

So, the sooner to have the talk the better! Because, it will only get worse. And the resentment that will build is so not worth it. It is NOT worth it!

SugarSpice's picture

it is very common for divorced fathers to make mini wives out of a daughter. they feel guilt and end up under cutting the authority of the wife. they dont have the balls to be true fathers.

as a result the girls end up being like lovers to their fathers. sick? you bet. but very common.

SugarSpice's picture

sd adult phones her father at least three times a day for this and that and just to talk. she has no friends her own age and she treats her father like a female friend, gossip of the day, co workers and things like that. and she has a boyfriend as well.

this is what it wi9ll be like with your sd and her father. you may never be able to totally stop the mini wife syndrome.

peacemaker's picture

Three things come to mind that might help. The every other weekend thing should be kept the every other weekend thing. When it is a weekend she is not supposed to be there..be proactive and plan a date with him just for the two of you...some adult activity that helps strengthen your marriage relationship and puts it back on the front burner...A lot of times a husband can take the marriage for granted (now that he has you) and forget to keep reinvesting in that important relationship...If you have something planned then she will have to be told to wait for her scheduled weekend. Getting some books for him to read to her at bedtime when she is over...with the content strongly defining a family and what that structure looks like may help her and HIM..put the proper perspective on the significance of the husband and wife roles verses the children's role...When they come from a broken marriage this seems to be one of the first things that gets screwed up and causes all kinds of long term issues...(Just read some of the posts...most of the issues come from step kids who have unrealistic expectations and huge entitlement issues that their bio parents created by overcompensating the child...many times good hearted intentions...but ignorantly ruined their kids in the long run...because they are only focused on the short term happiness level always being over the top...some of the behaviors he is already exuding...Once he starts reading her the books and the picture is clear...I would assume my position as his wife immediately...the sooner the better..the books will help because she has been trained that this behavior is their "normal"...but the longer she is elevated to a position that was not intended for her to be in from the beginning...the harder it will be for her to embrace a proper family structure...She may feel threatened at first, but that is because he put her in a position resembling his equal instead of his child...in the long run...the lack of healthy boundaries will make her insecure..and the idea of being her father's equal will cause him heartache when she gets older....children are not to be elevated above their parents position either...I see that a lot in broken families....

Another thing you may want to be aware of is keeping the "us issues" private and in the arena of just the two of you. Sometimes guilty dads don't filter boundaries in these situations and involve their kids in everything when they get older...You may have to step up and define the "us" arena for him. It will help with the intimacy and protection of your marriage..not only from step kids as they get older, but anyone trying to cross those sacred boundaries... the clearer they are...the more secure kids seem to be. If they aren't clear...they will push the line as far as they are allowed....

Other than that...just be the best version of you that you can be....know who you are....and do not feel threatened by their temporary confusion...respect yourself enough to be honest with your husband about how you feel and hopefully you two can work it out...stay true to yourself...peace